Linux vs the Apple iPad - Should Canonical refocus efforts?

[roxics]

For years linux has been attempting to gain ground in the desktop market. While successful as a server OS and even recently as the backbone of mobile OSes such as Android and Web OS, Linux has struggled for nearly two decades to make decent inroads onto the average consumers desktop or laptop. Mostly considered a hobby OS by the mainstream, linux distributors need to come to the harsh realization that the desktop market is a place that has been lost to them. In fact that battle for the desktop was over before they even showed up on the battle field. The battle for the desktop OS was during the 1980’s. It’s clear that two and a half decades later the two main players (Apple and Microsoft) are still in the game and not going anywhere.

That said, why continue to fight a battle for the mainstream that the mass majority of consumers could care less about? Without proper commercial software and a steady stream of hardware driver support, the linux battle has been uphill and continues to be uphill.
But there is a light at the end of the tunnel for linux. That light is called mobile devices.

Read more here (http://www.roxics.com/linux-vs-the-apple-ipad/)

What do you guys think? Should Canonical cancel its desktop efforts and focus on tablets? Or is it better off staying as a niche desktop OS for geeks and the few regular people that know them?

[KiwiNZ]

Tablets are a niche market. So, no

[juancarlospaco]

No.

[SuperSonic4]

tl;dr but judging on the title nope

[FraggedLocust]

They've got the MID version. Tablets are covered, I think.

[roxics]

Tablets are a niche market. So, no

Desktop Linux is also a niche market.

[pwnst*r]

lol, these threads crack me up.

[Little Bones]

Wouldn't hurt to at least make a pass at the tablet market I suppose.

[roxics]

lol, these threads crack me up.

Why? It's a serious question. I don't mean to be offensive as I'm a computer geek myself, but when you spend too much time on forums like these and in the IT department you tend to forget that the rest of world doesn't seem to care about Linux. Beyond that they have no idea what distro's even are.

Sure every so often you might find someones grandma using Ubuntu, but only because she has a tech savvy geek of a grandson who built her a computer and she doesn't know any different.

If Canonical changed its focus and stopped trying to be just another linux desktop distro but actually focused on doing something groundbreaking. Creating an entirely new touch based OS with the power of a desktop OS, then at the very least they would be the very first to get there. At the most they would be the one all these hardware manufacturers turned to for their OS of choice.

It's called thinking outside the box.

It's the reality of the world. Even the poorest people in the world pirate Windows. When companies put linux on netbooks many of those netbook were returned to the store. Which is the reason netbooks mostly come with Windows these day. In other words, desktop linux distros need to do something different. Unless all they ever want to be is just a niche product for some geeks who like to play with their OS.

[AllRadioisDead]

lol, these threads crack me up.
They're getting really annoying.

[unknownPoster]

lol, these threads crack me up.

I agree, I think there is a new one like this every few days.

[soni1770]

don't worry about the mainstream,


just keep making it better,


my brother is a programmer for a company designing solutions for work stuff,


he just told me that he uses linux on a usb to fix windows computers for extra cash from his friends....


sweet

[roxics]

don't worry about the mainstream,


just keep making it better,




Listen I'm not saying there is anything wrong with using and or playing around with a desktop linux distro or two or twenty. ;)
I do it myself. Don't get me wrong.

But from a commercial point of view more users usually equals more revenue for a given company. What's wrong with a company like Canonical putting most of its efforts into a tablet OS where it can actually build market saturation in a new market while still continuing to develop its desktop OS as well?

I mean if you think about it, look at a company like Apple. They used the success of the iPod and iTunes as a gateway drug to get people to pay attention to them and maybe even switch to a mac. As a result mac sales are up. If people like the experience with one, they figure they might like the experience with the other.

That said, if they'd rather focus their main effort on a niche desktop market, by all means. I'm just offering a different perspective. Laugh it off if you want. But some of you act just as bad as the die hard Apple fanboys who can't understand why anyone would ever want to use something as complex as Linux.

[pwnst*r]

It's called thinking outside the box.



It's called being motivated by a company that most here "hate". Ironic, no?

[Ric_NYC]

don't worry about the mainstream,


just keep making it better,


my brother is a programmer for a company designing solutions for work stuff,


he just told me that he uses linux on a usb to fix windows computers for extra cash from his friends....


Sweet

:d

[SmittyJensen]

It's called being motivated by a company that most here "hate". Ironic, no?
well, i dunno about everyone else, but i like macs, but i hate the ipad and apple itself.

=/ stupid rich snobs.

[AllRadioisDead]

well, i dunno about everyone else, but i like macs, but i hate the ipad and apple itself.

=/ stupid rich snobs.
So you like their products but you don't like the company that makes it?

[pwnst*r]

So you like their products but you don't like the company that makes it?

Jobs is a snob. He's rich. Makes complete sense!

[roxics]

It's called being motivated by a company that most here "hate". Ironic, no?

Why hate a company like Apple, what does it benefit? They get people excited about computers in a different way than other companies.

What's to hate about that? I've never understood people that have such a strong disdain for a company like Apple or for that matter Microsoft. Unless they are doing their customers wrong in some way I don't see what the issue is.

[Regenweald]

How does one come up with an Operating system vs Hardware thread. That's like asking Windows 7 vs the Laptop :confused:

[pwnst*r]

Why hate a company like Apple, what does it benefit? They get people excited about computers in a different way than other companies.

What's to hate about that? I've never understood people that have such a strong disdain for a company like Apple or for that matter Microsoft. Unless they are doing their customers wrong in some way I don't see what the issue is.

Not sure why you're asking me. Ask the users hating around here.

[roxics]

How does one come up with an Operating system vs Hardware thread. That's like asking Windows 7 vs the Laptop :confused:

I think you get my point. It's as much about the software as it is about the hardware. In this case we're comparing the OS within the iPad.

[Xbehave]

I think you get my point. It's as much about the software as it is about the hardware. In this case we're comparing the OS within the iPad.
The os in iPad is just iPhone OS, you can cripple ubuntu if you want but i doubt canonical should.

[roxics]

Not sure why you're asking me. Ask the users hating around here.

Absolutely. The question is to anyone. I mean I'm a gadget geek and computer nerd. I've been building machines and messing with OSes for over a decade now. If you're into it you're into it. You may dislike certain things about certain things by why hate outright?

[alexfish]

Read more here (http://www.roxics.com/linux-vs-the-apple-ipad/)

What do you guys think? Should Canonical cancel its desktop efforts and focus on tablets? Or is it better off staying as a niche desktop OS for geeks and the few regular people that know them?


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[Shibblet]

Tablets are a niche market. So, no

Yes, but the iPhone is not. It's the best selling smart phone... ever.

[roxics]

The os in iPad is just iPhone OS, you can cripple ubuntu if you want but i doubt canonical should.

I completely agree. That's kind of what I'm talking about here. A lot of people aren't that satisfied with the OS inside the iPad, which leaves room for competition in that space. So the question is not whether Canonical should cripple Ubuntu for a tablet, but whether or not they should focus on building a new full powered OS with a slick tablet interface and going after that emerging market.

[Xbehave]

Yes, but the iPhone is not. It's the best selling smart phone... ever.
Only it's not, the blackberry is!

[e-Gee]

This is the next step of Canonical Ubuntu Tablet Remix or Ubuntu Tablet Edition :P

[Xbehave]

I completely agree. That's kind of what I'm talking about here. A lot of people aren't that satisfied with the OS inside the iPad, which leaves room for competition in that space. So the question is not whether Canonical should cripple Ubuntu for a tablet, but whether or not they should focus on building a new full powered OS with a slick tablet interface and going after that emerging market.
Ubuntu is already avlible on similar devices (touchpad / archos 7? / etc). I think intel's meamo interface would be more than good enough for such devices (although something like kde would be fine too), so there is nothing for canonical to do. Tbh i don't see the market for such devices but if there is one the ubuntu is already available for that market.

[hungry_joe]

I don't know about anyone else, but were Ubuntu to become mac orientated I would have to switch distro. The cost of most apple hardware just isn't in line with their performance. And while their main selling point seems to be appearance, many of their machines seem ugly and mass produced.
Also I don't think that Linux is failing as a desktop OS as the user base does seem to be increasing, additionally I would like to suggest that this comic strip rather moots your point http://xkcd.com/694/

[Shibblet]

Only it's not, the blackberry is!

You're right, as of May 2009 it's like this... (http://news.worldofapple.com/archives/2009/05/04/iphone-falls-to-second-place-in-bestselling-smartphone-chart/)

But second place, and no support?

[roxics]

I don't know about anyone else, but were Ubuntu to become mac orientated I would have to switch distro. The cost of most apple hardware just isn't in line with their performance. And while their main selling point seems to be appearance, many of their machines seem ugly and mass produced.
Also I don't think that Linux is failing as a desktop OS as the user base does seem to be increasing, additionally I would like to suggest that this comic strip rather moots your point http://xkcd.com/694/

I'm not suggesting they become Apple. There is already an Apple. I'm suggesting they become the alternative to Apple in the tablet market. Which means still producing a tablet OS, but one with more power and a slick tablet interface. Not just a desktop interface on a tablet.

Look at the market right now. Companies like MSI are planning tablets for the consumer market. But they're throwing Android on the things. That's not a lot better then Apple just throwing the iPhone OS on the iPad. How about instead an OS and interface specifically built for a tablet. It has to come from somewhere, why not a company like Canonical?

[Xbehave]

Look at the market right now. Companies like MSI are planning tablets for the consumer market. But they're throwing Android on the things. That's not a lot better then Apple just throwing the iPhone OS on the iPad. How about instead an OS and interface specifically built for a tablet. It has to come from somewhere, why not a company like Canonical?Why bother? canonical want to make their money in corporate support, I doubt something as useless as an iPad will take off there.

[RabbitWho]

software vs. hardware

WILL THE BATTLE NEVER END!? WHEN WILL THE KILLING STOP!?

How many roads must a man walk down...

[roxics]

Why bother? canonical want to make their money in corporate support, I doubt something as useless as an iPad will take off there.

Doctors offices, car insurance reps, shipping companies, warehouse stock keepers, the list goes on. Lot of professions could use a light weight inexpensive tablet.

[koshatnik]

Read more here (http://www.roxics.com/linux-vs-the-apple-ipad/)

What do you guys think? Should Canonical cancel its desktop efforts and focus on tablets? Or is it better off staying as a niche desktop OS for geeks and the few regular people that know them?

Am I the only person that thinks tablet computers are utterly pointless?

[Regenweald]

I'm not suggesting they become Apple. There is already an Apple. I'm suggesting they become the alternative to Apple in the tablet market. Which means still producing a tablet OS, but one with more power and a slick tablet interface. Not just a desktop interface on a tablet.

Look at the market right now. Companies like MSI are planning tablets for the consumer market. But they're throwing Android on the things. That's not a lot better then Apple just throwing the iPhone OS on the iPad. How about instead an OS and interface specifically built for a tablet. It has to come from somewhere, why not a company like Canonical?

Thing is, what you are suggesting already exists. Ubuntu,Opensolaris etc. already have arm ports. That's one.

For "slick" interfaces you can check out one of the many platforms out there: E17, Moblin/ Clutter, KDE, Gnome3.0 upcoming etc. That's two.

All the hardware manufacturers that matter have Tegra2 based tablet and ultraportable devices in the imminent pipeline: ASUS, MSI, FOXCONN etc. Tegra2 is an Arm + Nvidia product, both of which are already supported in most Linux/BSD/UNIX distros and of those, most are already going with F/OSS platforms. That's three.

Developing hardware doesn't happen on a whim, it takes a *lot* of capital and effort, and the results are not guaranteed, take the nexus one for example.

So what exactly should Canonical do in addition to all that ? It should also be noted that Microsoft simply do not support the ARM platform and it seems that ARM is going to be the defacto platform for this supposedly exploding new form factor. Even the ipad is running ARM. If Linux does not manage to become the monopoly platform in this new era, then it is testament to its inadequacy as a viable OS. There is no MS+Atom flood and only the closed and woefully crippled ipad to compete with. Essentially no "big bad" to point fingers at.

[Xbehave]

Doctors offices, car insurance reps, shipping companies, warehouse stock keepers, the list goes on. Lot of professions could use a light weight inexpensive tablet.
I doubt it, the lack of keyboard makes it cumbersome for input and the small size makes it rubbish as a replacement for paper. There are already devices like the iPad out i don't think they have been very successful, so i don't think Canonical should waste any time on the concept until it's seen to have some success.

[koleoptero]

how many roads must a man walk down...

42?

[LightB]

Come on. The whole tablet thing is years old. Nothing special about an Apple brand of it despite Jobs' jazzy magician act.

[RabbitWho]

42?

!!!!!http://www.dwarf.org.uk/downloads/images/42m.gif!!!!

Ding ding ding ding ding!

[hanzomon4]

Come on. The whole tablet thing is years old. Nothing special about an Apple brand of it despite Jobs' jazzy magician act.

Get real... The iPad isn't perfect but for what it is and does it's very good. I mean Apple basically created the interface that allows for a tablet that's not useless. They may not have invented any of the technology but they did create the "package" that makes it all useful. Deny it? Why is it that after the iphone every major smartphone began copying it? Because it's great..

I don't get why some foss heads always try to push some clone of something they have deemed crap. It's like conceptual art, everyone thinks it's easy... well why didn't you make it. In the case of the "crappy" ipad, why do you want to make one now that apple has?

[Xbehave]

Get real... The iPad isn't perfect but for what it is and does it's very good. I mean Apple basically created the interface that allows for a tablet that's not useless. They may not have invented any of the technology but they did create the "package" that makes it all useful.
Wow they invented the maximise & remove window decorations button :o and people are having a circlejerk over it. The only invention in the UI is the multi-fingured gestures (which they patented, so nobody else uses them (they are easy to implement in SW though as the IBM tutorial for synaptics shows)), and that was released with the iphone.


Deny it? Why is it that after the iphone every major smartphone began copying it? Because it's great..
Erm how is the interface of the iphone any different to other touchscreen phones that came before it, it has a classic grid launcher (hello nokia from 1998 called they want their "invention" back)


I don't get why some foss heads always try to push some clone of something they have deemed crap.
Foss projects often take the best parts of other projects, but i'm yet to see anybody "copy" the primitive grid launcher that everybody is on about.


It's like conceptual art, everyone thinks it's easy...
LOL, how is it conceptual art, its simplistic UI design not ART

In the case of the "crappy" ipad, why do you want to make one now that apple has?
We don't, the closest thing to a competitors are the meamo,chrome OS,mobilin interfaces (which IMO beats the crap out of the iphone because they come handle multitasking), btw meamo was around before the iphone so i doubt it's a "clone".

[Regenweald]

Get real... The iPad isn't perfect but for what it is and does it's very good. I mean Apple basically created the interface that allows for a tablet that's not useless. They may not have invented any of the technology but they did create the "package" that makes it all useful. Deny it? Why is it that after the iphone every major smartphone began copying it? Because it's great..

I don't get why some foss heads always try to push some clone of something they have deemed crap. It's like conceptual art, everyone thinks it's easy... well why didn't you make it. In the case of the "crappy" ipad, why do you want to make one now that apple has?

Guy, It's an ipod touch with a bigger screen that still needs to dock because there is no USB, smartcard....anything. That is an *awkward* size to be docking. Other than it being a cute looking apple device, what are it's merits ? and before you tell me that i'm anti-apple products, I think the iphone is a decent device.

[roxics]

I don't believe tablets are useless. What I honestly believe is that the technology just never caught up to the idea. By technology I don't just mean the physical hardware. I also mean the software and the philosophy behind the software design.

Ever since the 90's I thought it would be cool to have a tablet computer. But most of the tablets sold in stores have been convertible laptops with high prices, mushy touchscreens, chintzy spin around hinges and desktop OS's that are designed to be used at cursor point and not finger point. Lack of multi-touch and bad handwriting recognition haven't helped either.

So yeah we can say that tablets have been around for a long time now and "failed" but I wouldn't cross them off the list just yet. We really have yet to see their true potential. You can't judge future tablets based on problematic tablets of the past.

I'll be the first to say the iPad is not without it's shortcomings. Yeah it may be nothing but a large iPod touch. But if you read the article linked to on my first post in this thread you'll see that one of the reasons the iPad excites me is because it gets people excited about tablets in general. Whether they buy an iPad or something better. It may not be a great product, but it could very well inspire people to build on it and make it better for future tablet designs. But we're going to need some good OSes to match.

[hanzomon4]

Wow they invented the maximise & remove window decorations button :o and people are having a circlejerk over it. The only invention in the UI is the multi-fingured gestures (which they patented, so nobody else uses them (they are easy to implement in SW though as the IBM tutorial for synaptics shows)), and that was released with the iphone.


Erm how is the interface of the iphone any different to other touchscreen phones that came before it, it has a classic grid launcher (hello nokia from 1998 called they want their "invention" back)


Foss projects often take the best parts of other projects, but i'm yet to see anybody "copy" the primitive grid launcher that everybody is on about.


LOL, how is it conceptual art, its simplistic UI design not ART

We don't, the closest thing to a competitors are the meamo,chrome OS,mobilin interfaces (which IMO beats the crap out of the iphone because they come handle multitasking), btw meamo was around before the iphone so i doubt it's a "clone".

You may want to take a moment to reread my post. I wasn't comparing the iPad to conceptual art, only some of the criticism I've seen here. And really? You'd reduce the iphone UI to it's grid launchers? really?!

And come on, you've seen all the iPhone killers that came out of the wood work. I actually had a coworker come up to me and say that he had the sprint version of the iphone..


Guy, It's an ipod touch with a bigger screen that still needs to dock because there is no USB, smartcard....anything. That is an *awkward* size to be docking. Other than it being a cute looking apple device, what are it's merits ? and before you tell me that i'm anti-apple products, I think the iphone is a decent device.

It's merit? It takes the already capable iphone/ipod touch and brings it to a bigger screen. iphones are already great as net computers, with a bigger screen I won't need to bring my laptop with me on most outings. Sorry if that sounds like a cop out but the iphoneOS is great for its purpose, if you want more you want a laptop.

As far as microSDHC and multi-tasking goes... well it depends. If these two things could be done well I'd say go for it, but I'd rather not have them then have a bad implementation. I want a device I don't have to baby like I do my laptop and Droid Eris(this phone is maddening). Usb would be nice but far from necessary, I mean I don't see myself holding this thing with usb devices dangling off of it. Also I think the dock has more to do with charging it then a lack of a usb.

It all comes down to what you need/want, the ipad may not be what you want it to be

[Ji Ruo]

What do you guys think? Should Canonical cancel its desktop efforts and focus on tablets?

Only if they call it the uTampon.

[Regenweald]

Hanzomon, 499 to 800+ US dollars and its solitary merit is a bigger screen ? and how does a company like apple implement an SD card poorly ? Not to knock you man, cuz if it rocks for you, cool. But as I read your reply I couldn't help but smile a bit, they add one feature to a device mark it up 100-300 percent and you realize that you don't need card or USB functionality anyway ;) sounds like you're sold on Apple come what may....

Honestly, if it were 1000+ but had more storage, a camera, USB and card support, I'd say hey, it's the usual Apple price gouging but at least their customers have a great looking device that is pretty functional for 2010. instead the thing is crippled worse than a *low end* intel proc.

[hanzomon4]

How is it crippled? The price is about the same as an ipod touch, this is one Apple product that's actually "cheap". Perhaps I'm biased because I owned an iPhone but the experience. Was great compared to my Eris which has most of the features the ipad is missing. I don't plan on buying the ipad because its not the device I need it to be but I'm not going to call it crap.

[squilookle]

Read more here (http://www.roxics.com/linux-vs-the-apple-ipad/)

What do you guys think? Should Canonical cancel its desktop efforts and focus on tablets? Or is it better off staying as a niche desktop OS for geeks and the few regular people that know them?

The coverage and reviews I've seen of the iTable have been mixed: certainly not all positive. The Register called it "A fat iPhone, without the phone".

I think it would be a mistake to dive in and spend too many resources trying to compete. I don't think it's going to kill the PC or revolutionise the market.

That said, I'm sure it will sell well.

[howlingmadhowie]

i'd like to say that i couldn't care less about the ipad, but i get the impression it will become popular and at some stage i'll have to have an opinion.

i think a lot of people dislike apple because apple reveals a part of the human psyche a lot of people dislike. apple basically says "look, i'm shiny and i'm not microsoft. if you buy me, you'll have something which everybody regards as shiny and not microsoft". the annoying thing is that so many people buy apple products. it really is terribly dissapointing and disillusioning.

on the other hand you have the fsf and the gnu project fighting for freedom of information and thought in the modern age, and very few people seem to be interested in that. "shiny" trumps "freedom" in the minds of most people. I hope this is because most people have never had the issues explained to them, but i'm probably being overly optimistic here.

i think my ire at the ipad will depend upon the answers to certain questions like:
1/ can the owner load their own books on to it?
2/ can the owner copy or transfer books they have bought from it to another device for safe back-up?
3/ can the owner make copies of books they have bought for friends and family?
4/ can the owner swap books with others?
5/ can the owner sell books they have bought?
6/ can an author release their work under a copyleft or free licence and have this licence honoured by the device?
7/ will the device automatically allow sharing of works which fall out of copyright?

[LightB]

Get real... The iPad isn't perfect but for what it is and does it's very good. I mean Apple basically created the interface that allows for a tablet that's not useless. They may not have invented any of the technology but they did create the "package" that makes it all useful. Deny it?

Yes.


Why is it that after the iphone every major smartphone began copying it? Because it's great..

Great hype, maybe.

It's like the iPod, forcibly latched onto iTunes and is not price competitive for what it does, it is just marketed successfully. I'll take an iaudio over an ipod any day.

[Xbehave]

You'd reduce the iphone UI to it's grid launchers? really?!
No, that and patented gestures that arn't hard to copy but everybody is scared to. And more importantly there is nothing new in the ipad.


And come on, you've seen all the iPhone killers that came out of the wood work.
Meh, meamo was already in development and the UI of the "iPhone killers" isn't usually a clone, there are some actually innovative UIs out there (radial launchers allow for easy one handed phone use, etc). Infact most iPhone killers are only called such because apple hype means people mistakenly think the iPhone is the top selling phone, in the EU it's certainly not and in the US its #2.


It's merit? It takes the already capable iphone/ipod touch and brings it to a bigger screen.

Apart from the fact it cant take phone calls
And is too big to fit in a pocket



with a bigger screen I won't need to bring my laptop with me on most outings.
It's only ~10" that's not really big enough to watch videos (which you can't do anyway because it lacks flash)


Sorry if that sounds like a cop out but the iphoneOS is great for its purpose, if you want more you want a laptop.
Really? the single tasking os, that single handedly invented

Grid launcher
system tray at the top of the screen
touch screen UIs



How is it crippled?

Full of DRM
Apple approved apps only.
Single tasking (seriously for an anywhere pc wouldn't it be useful to get email notifications, instant messaging, rss feed reader, message notifications from webpages in the background (think facebook, meebo, etc))



The price is about the same as an ipod touch, this is one Apple product that's actually "cheap
But compared to similar products like the touchpood/archos it is much more expensive, an apple products from the phone market (where everything is expensive because it's tiny) is not a great comparison, the only place the ipad even competes with other products for price (and still looses) is the high end models.


It all comes down to what you need/want, the ipad may not be what you want it to be
It comes down to it being nothing (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=archos+) new (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=touchbook+), yet people like you hyping it as something amazing. So given that the previous implementations of tablets never took off, canonical shouldn't waste time on a new look unless people want devices like this. AppleTV didn't go well so there is no reason to think this will do better!


I think it would be a mistake to dive in and spend too many resources trying to compete. I don't think it's going to kill the PC or revolutionise the market.
My point exactly

[Dr. C]

...
6/ can an author release their work under a copyleft or free licence and have this licence honoured by the device?
...

No. The DRM on the iPhone OS is specifically designed to prevent the legal distribution of FLOSS for the device under a copyleft license for example the GPL.

[hanzomon4]

No, that and patented gestures that arn't hard to copy but everybody is scared to. And more importantly there is nothing new in the ipad.


Meh, meamo was already in development and the UI of the "iPhone killers" isn't usually a clone, there are some actually innovative UIs out there (radial launchers allow for easy one handed phone use, etc). Infact most iPhone killers are only called such because apple hype means people mistakenly think the iPhone is the top selling phone, in the EU it's certainly not and in the US its #2.



Apart from the fact it cant take phone calls
And is too big to fit in a pocket


.
It's only ~10" that's not really big enough to watch videos (which you can't do anyway because it lacks flash)


Really? the single tasking os, that single handedly invented

Grid launcher
system tray at the top of the screen
touch screen UIs




Full of DRM
Apple approved apps only.
Single tasking (seriously for an anywhere pc wouldn't it be useful to get email notifications, instant messaging, rss feed reader, message notifications from webpages in the background (think facebook, meebo, etc))



But compared to similar products like the touchpood/archos it is much more expensive, an apple products from the phone market (where everything is expensive because it's tiny) is not a great comparison, the only place the ipad even competes with other products for price (and still looses) is the high end models.


It comes down to it being nothing (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=archos+) new (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=touchbook+), yet people like you hyping it as something amazing. So given that the previous implementations of tablets never took off, canonical shouldn't waste time on a new look unless people want devices like this. AppleTV didn't go well so there is no reason to think this will do better!


My point exactly

I won't respond to all of this cause I'm my phone but two things stick out. For one maemo was a very different animal when the iPhone was released. The UI was updated almost a year after the original iPhone. I like maemo and can't wait until they start putting it on more consumer aimed devices.

Second the archos 7, looks great but according to reviews doesn't have as good of a browsing experience as the iPhone. Also its not even multitouch it has a resistive screen. It has great features and looks nice but its all about the video and happens to do internet. The Archos 9 runs win7, that's an automatic fail.

But still its all about what you care about. If you want to stick all of your usb gear into a mobile device and watch video in any format.. don't get an ip* anything its not for you. Having a jack of all trades isn't always great.

If the ipad doesnt float your boat just get one of the many Linux tablets floating around.

[Xbehave]

For one maemo was a very different animal when the iPhone was released.
My point was that mobile internet devices were around and the plan to expand them into fully fledge phones was already there. AFAICT nokia hasn't made anything but superficial changes to the plan in response to the iPhone (n700:2005, n800:2007, n900:2009, n1000:2011?)


Second the archos 7, looks great but according to reviews doesn't have as good of a browsing experience as the iPhone.
I don't know about archos7, I know that the touchbook can run any ARM os and has flash support, so what specifically (i.e not using generic phrases like "experience" ) is better about browsing on an ipad than a fullscreen browser on a touchscreen (all i can think of is pinch,zooming)?


Also its not even multitouch it has a resistive screen.
You can get software multitouch on any screen that reports presure information, I don't understand why devices don't do this, but id guess it's software patent related.


The Archos 9 runs win7, that's an automatic fail.
When did a multitasking OS that lets you run any software you want and can be repalced become worse than the a drm ladden singletasking unreplacable one?


But still its all about what you care about. If you want to stick all of your usb gear into a mobile device and watch video in any format.. don't get an ip* anything its not for you.
My point is that canonical shouldn't waste time until it's clear there is a demand for such devices, apple releasing a device doesn't mean there is.


Having a jack of all trades isn't always great.
You can always have the will power to maximise windows and remove the window decoration yourself and never run more than one app at a time and have a simulated ipad experience (only you can have email,im,etc running in the background)

[roxics]

My point is that canonical shouldn't waste time until it's clear there is a demand for such devices, apple releasing a device doesn't mean there is.


I think that with a little bit of vision you can see that this is where computers are going. 10 years from now it isn't going to just be a box with a screen/keyboard/mouse on your desk like it is now. Sure those will still be around, but they aren't going to define what a computer is like they have for the last 30+ years.

As the technology improves you're going to see a lot more touch interfaces. Microsofts Surface is a great example of future desktop computing. People are going to want to take that same experience mobile. Hence a tablet.

So this idea that Canonical should just be conservative and not pioneer future computer models is silly in my opinion. So you really want Linux to keep playing catch-up? That's what it sounds like you're saying. That they should wait and see what the big boys do first and then only copy it if it's successful.

Alternatively what I'm suggesting is that Linux and companies like Canonical should step outside the box and pioneer new user models.

[Groucho Marxist]

Tablets are a niche market. So, no

Furthermore, the iPad is designed to restrict users from utilizing anything but proprietary Apple programs; Flash support, for example, is non-existent. Frankly, I feel that the product is an over-sized iPhone for users with a surplus of dollars and a deficit of sense.

[Xbehave]

I think that with a little bit of vision you can see that this is where computers are going. 10 years from now it isn't going to just be a box with a screen/keyboard/mouse on your desk like it is now.
The Keyboard/mouse has been the best interface for most important uses since it was invented, I doubt it is going anywhere in the next 10 years. Businesses (where canonical looks to for it's money) sure as hell are going to primarily using keyboard/mouse in 10 years, home users too, tablets/phones are nice but they will never surpass desktop/laptop.


As the technology improves you're going to see a lot more touch interfaces.
But the interface behind that is still the same, a multitouch surface is just a mouse with a lot more buttons.


Microsofts Surface is a great example of future desktop computing.
I doubt it, so far it seams useless and i'm not just saying that because it's MS, if it is going to work there needs to be a nice open protocol and specification for devices to interact with surface devices. The multi user aspect is already possible with MPX so if you want to do 2 users on the same "surface" you can, but the multi device interaction needs an open protocol to communicate between devices (something like bluetooth stuff but expanded to more protocols and with a more limited interaction scope, so consistent UIs are applied).


People are going to want to take that same experience mobile. Hence a tablet.
But there have been mobile internet touchscreen based devices before and pre-2010 nobody real wanted them. While "multitouch" (as in multi-finger gestures, not multiple users at once) is nice, how often do you pinch/twist (all the other gestures don't even need the ibm perl script)


So this idea that Canonical should just be conservative and not pioneer future computer models is silly in my opinion.
The iPad is mostly marketing, Canonical don't have the budget or following to hype something as much as apple can. As for the software, grid launchers and fullscreen apps are already there, multitouch requires patent licensing from apple and for twist/pinch it isn't worth it (especially as users can add this feature using perl+input shm)


So you really want Linux to keep playing catch-up?
I'd rather canonical focus on improvements that will bring the most benefit, rather than waste time/money on going after mobile devices where there are already much more experienced companies working on linux (e.g Nokia, Motorola, etc)


That they should wait and see what the big boys do first and then only copy it if it's successful.

Alternatively what I'm suggesting is that Linux and companies like Canonical should step outside the box and pioneer new user models.
There is no user model, people don't want a new user model. So yes I don't think canonical should waste money on something that history shows few people want (or atleast don't want till it's hyped by apple) and would rather they stuck to trying to get profitable on technology that is definitely going to be successful (desktops, servers, cloud) first.

edit: List of existing or almost existing devices that where around before the iPad changed everything (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8750428&postcount=3)

[michaelpagz]

Linux development tends to move slow and steady for the most part. One of the reasons I love linux, and really most open source development is that it tends to forego trends for stability. Will there be a really good tablet with linux on it? More than likely, yes. Will it be part of all the tablet rage coming this year? Probably not.
As a side rant, I don't really want to see Ubuntu or any Linux os be a passing fad on an itabletslatepad or superdoublesmartultraphone or minismartnetbooktop or the cloudbrowsingnetappOS. Don't get me wrong its a testament to the awesomeness of linux that it can do all of these things, but with all the work that goes in to development, fads may not be a good place to focus effort.
After rereading that it occurs to me that I think I'm getting old.