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View Full Version : Alright, that's it Ati, I'm sick of you.



AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 06:36 AM
Alright, I've been an Ati user for 2 years now, and don't get me wrong, on Windows my HD4850 performs great, it laughs at Crysis. Since some of my games are starting to work better in wine, I've switched. The open source drivers are moving along nicely, they have been for a long time. That's nice, but I want to be able to play wine games. The proprietary drivers are terrible as well, constant flickering, xcompmgr lags (I know xcompmgr suck, but really, windows shouldn't lag when I resize them), God even Kwin lags when I resize windows. However, this is a small sacrafice to be able to play 3D games in wine. Even then, Atlantica is laggy, Halo is laggy, Perfect World is even a bit laggy. These aren't even graphically intense games.
/Rant

Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (<$200). Any suggestions?

HangukMiguk
January 27th, 2010, 06:58 AM
Alright, I've been an Ati user for 2 years now, and don't get me wrong, on Windows my HD4850 performs great, it laughs at Crysis. Since some of my games are starting to work better in wine, I've switched. The open source drivers are moving along nicely, they have been for a long time. That's nice, but I want to be able to play wine games. The proprietary drivers are terrible as well, constant flickering, xcompmgr lags (I know xcompmgr suck, but really, windows shouldn't lag when I resize them), God even Kwin lags when I resize windows. However, this is a small sacrafice to be able to play 3D games in wine. Even then, Atlantica is laggy, Halo is laggy, Perfect World is even a bit laggy. These aren't even graphically intense games.
/Rant

Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (>$200). Any suggestions?

Oh, well, get this, same thing here, only it's with Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo in Final Burn Alpha. I'm sorry, but a 15 year-old arcade game on emulator should not have flicker or lag on a next-gen computer. That's just ridiculous. And it worked perfectly fine in Vista.

The bad part is, is with this being a laptop, it becomes hard for me to switch to Nvidia.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 07:07 AM
I believe anything that uses opengl will flicker with the proprietary driver. That means I have to wait about 5-10 seconds for a wine app to start after it finishes flickering. I experience this on bootup as well.

Icehuck
January 27th, 2010, 07:09 AM
I'm just surprised you have the will power and the stubbornness to even game with Wine.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 07:12 AM
I'm just surprised you have the will power and the stubbornness to even game with Wine.
Why do you say that?

blueturtl
January 27th, 2010, 08:46 AM
Have you tried the xorg-edgers ppa?

They have the most bleeding edge packages for Ubuntu, so you won't have to wait til the next release to get updated drivers.

Techsnap
January 27th, 2010, 09:20 AM
Heh, Have fun with nVidia, not once but twice they've screwed me other with Chipset drivers on WINDOWS. So if they can't even get Windows right how can anyone expect them to continue getting Linux right.

Anyways there's nothing wrong with the proprietary drivers, don't blame ATi, blame the mess which is X11. Also the FOSS ATi driver is really coming along, 2.6.32 + KMS and Mesa 7.7 will give you great results.

Ji Ruo
January 27th, 2010, 09:44 AM
Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (>$200). Any suggestions?

No suggestions, but you're obviously looking at a GTX for that price range. Do a search for GTX benchmarks and see what's what.

caravel
January 27th, 2010, 09:53 AM
No problems with the ATI proprietary drivers here. Good framerates and image quality in native Linux games, etc. I have an HD3650 running Debian 5.0.

Personally, if I wanted to run windows games, I'd run windows.

Pasdar
January 27th, 2010, 10:41 AM
I don't play non-native games. with games on linux my 4570 performs great. Everything at maximum settings, great fps. I've been trying ATI drivers since a year now (they release new drivers each month), and 9.12 is the best so far. Waiting for 10.1 to be released within a day or two.

Anyway, you should have known you'll experience slowness if you play games with wine on ATI drivers, it has been talked about many times. The only three 'problems' I experience with my drivers are:
1. Flickering/Tearing with fast moving movies (action).
2. The tenth of a second delay in maximizing (when composition is on). Though I'm happy they made it better, it used to be an actual second delay.

Xbehave
January 27th, 2010, 10:42 AM
Not sure why anybody is trying to argue with you, I'm a fan of the ATI FLOSS drivers but they arn't there yet (http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram), whereas gaming was possible on Nvidia prop drivers 5 years ago. So while I can't suggest a particular card, I do think your idea is reasonable and wish you th best of luck.


Anyways there's nothing wrong with the proprietary drivers, don't blame ATi, blame the mess which is X11.
What exactly is wrong with X11? The nvidia developers seam fine with it (and they have no reason to lie) and outside of a few old rants that no longer apply/never made sense (i.e drop network transparency) I've never seen any decent complaint against current X11.

blueshiftoverwatch
January 27th, 2010, 11:25 AM
Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (>$200). Any suggestions?
I have MSI's GTX 260 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127464&Tpk=MSI%20GTX%20260). It's only $10 over your budget.

cascade9
January 27th, 2010, 11:33 AM
Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (>$200). Any suggestions?

Leaving aside the 'ati- good, evil or just meh' debate, if you want to change you've only really got 2 choices-

GTX260.
GTS250.

Anything more than GTX260 is out of the price range, anything less than a GTS250 will be (possibly) slower than your current HD4850.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 12:36 PM
Do you have an SLi capable motherboard? If so I would try to find a pair of 8800 GTXs. Great performance for the price.

Ji Ruo
January 27th, 2010, 01:22 PM
So you want a graphics card under $200? Shouldn't that be <$200 instead of >$200?

I guess you're looking at a GTX regardless but it made me laugh...

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 01:41 PM
Have you tried the xorg-edgers ppa?

They have the most bleeding edge packages for Ubuntu, so you won't have to wait til the next release to get updated drivers.
Yes, I've tried it. The 3D is still too weak.

Heh, Have fun with nVidia, not once but twice they've screwed me other with Chipset drivers on WINDOWS. So if they can't even get Windows right how can anyone expect them to continue getting Linux right.

Anyways there's nothing wrong with the proprietary drivers, don't blame ATi, blame the mess which is X11. Also the FOSS ATi driver is really coming along, 2.6.32 + KMS and Mesa 7.7 will give you great results.
1) Because their drivers are better than the Ati ones on Linux?
2) There's nothing wrong? I wouldn't be this annoyed if there was nothing wrong. I wasn't asking who to blame, I've seen this argument go back and forth for a while now.

No suggestions, but you're obviously looking at a GTX for that price range. Do a search for GTX benchmarks and see what's what.
Thanks.

No problems with the ATI proprietary drivers here. Good framerates and image quality in native Linux games, etc. I have an HD3650 running Debian 5.0.

Personally, if I wanted to run windows games, I'd run windows.
Thanks, that was useful.
Thanks, that was useful. Unfortunately, I'm not you.

I don't play non-native games. with games on linux my 4570 performs great. Everything at maximum settings, great fps. I've been trying ATI drivers since a year now (they release new drivers each month), and 9.12 is the best so far. Waiting for 10.1 to be released within a day or two.
I do play non-native games, so it is a problem for me.
The open source drivers are smooth, I know, but they're still not powerful enough for wine games.
Anyway, you should have known you'll experience slowness if you play games with wine on ATI drivers, it has been talked about many times. The only three 'problems' I experience with my drivers are:
1. Flickering/Tearing with fast moving movies (action).
2. The tenth of a second delay in maximizing (when composition is on). Though I'm happy they made it better, it used to be an actual second delay.
When I bought the card, I used windows more than I used Linux. Wine wasn't anywhere near as good as it is now.

Leaving aside the 'ati- good, evil or just meh' debate, if you want to change you've only really got 2 choices-

GTX260.
GTS250.

Anything more than GTX260 is out of the price range, anything less than a GTS250 will be (possibly) slower than your current HD4850.
Thanks, I'll look into those.

Do you have an SLi capable motherboard? If so I would try to find a pair of 8800 GTXs. Great performance for the price.
Does that work well in Linux? How does that compare to the GTS 250/260?

So you want a graphics card under $200? Shouldn't that be <$200 instead of >$200?

I guess you're looking at a GTX regardless but it made me laugh...
Sorry, I will correct that. I was typing it out late last night. Thanks.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 01:49 PM
Does that work well in Linux? How does that compare to the GTS 250/260?

It works great even with a single 8800. In SLi it would slaughter those cards.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 01:52 PM
It works great even with a single 8800. In SLi it would slaughter those cards.
Thank you! The Linux drivers have good SLi support?

forrestcupp
January 27th, 2010, 01:55 PM
Aw, just hold on a little while longer. They're probably going to have the drivers ironed out real good in the next 10-15 years. :)

cascade9
January 27th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Does that work well in Linux? How does that compare to the GTS 250/260?

A year or so ago, 2x8800GTXs in SLI was a little faster than a GTX280-

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/page13.asp

But that dates back to 2008/early 2009, AFAIK, nVidia has been doing a lot of work on the drivers on the newer cards and things might look a bit better for the GTS250 and GTX2xx cards.

IIRC the GTX2xx cards might not get as high a framerate, but they do better on minimum framerates.

SLI can be a right pain with any OS, and linux just makes thing harder. Then, you've got remember your adding a lot of power drain, you might very well need a bigger power supply to cope with the extra draw...and its going to make a _lot_ more heat than a single card. Plus, you'll need a SLI capable motherboard as well.....

Not like you'll find many, if any, 8800GTX for sale new these days anyway. ;)

pwnst*r
January 27th, 2010, 02:16 PM
Now to the point. I'd like to purchase a decent Nvidia card (>$200). Any suggestions?

GTX285. I wubs mine.


**I know it's early, but that's a greater than sign**

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 02:29 PM
A year or so ago, 2x8800GTXs in SLI was a little faster than a GTX280-

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/nvidia_geforce_gtx_280_260_performance/page13.asp

But that dates back to 2008/early 2009, AFAIK, nVidia has been doing a lot of work on the drivers on the newer cards and things might look a bit better for the GTS250 and GTX2xx cards.

IIRC the GTX2xx cards might not get as high a framerate, but they do better on minimum framerates.

SLI can be a right pain with any OS, and linux just makes thing harder. Then, you've got remember your adding a lot of power drain, you might very well need a bigger power supply to cope with the extra draw...and its going to make a _lot_ more heat than a single card. Plus, you'll need a SLI capable motherboard as well.....

Not like you'll find many, if any, 8800GTX for sale new these days anyway. ;)

They're still faster. SLi under Linux works great now as well, it used to suck though.

And my local PC store is still selling 5200s....

Xbehave
January 27th, 2010, 02:45 PM
Aw, just hold on a little while longer. They're probably going to have the drivers ironed out real good in the next 10-15 years. :)
The ATI drivers are progressing pretty well, while they are still a bit off 3d gaming (see this (http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram#Wine) page), it is coming sooner rather than latter (i.e this isn't the same ATI support is comming, you've heard for the last 3 years).

Yes, I've tried it. The 3D is still too weak.
Unfortunately, just using xorg-edgers, only gets you DRI 1, if you use a new kernel (http://kernel.ubuntu.com/~kernel-ppa/mainline/), you get DRI 2 (requires KMS), which is a lot faster and offers better 3D support. If you want gaming now I would still go with nvidia+prop, but before binning the ATI card I would have a look at what the radeon drivers are going to be like lucid and beyond (running a 2.6.33 rc kernel was even better until I ran into bugs). handy's thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1238129) described the situation in more detail, and with better instructions.

benmoran
January 27th, 2010, 02:55 PM
If you do go with an Nvidia, i'd hold on to that ATI card anyhow. The Gallium3D stuff is shaping up to be pretty awesome.

.*
January 27th, 2010, 02:57 PM
I'm sat on the fence with this one.

forrestcupp
January 27th, 2010, 04:19 PM
The ATI drivers are progressing pretty well, while they are still a bit off 3d gaming (see this (http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram#Wine) page), it is coming sooner rather than latter (i.e this isn't the same ATI support is comming, you've heard for the last 3 years).

We've been hearing that ATI support is getting better for the entire time I've been around. ATI released their specs a couple of years ago, and we've been hearing how fast things are going to progress since then. And for the past year, we've been hearing people say exactly what you are saying now.

Therefore, I conclude that in 10 years, ATI drivers will be in good working order. Only by then, it won't matter anymore because technology will be completely different anyway.

For people who want things to work now, ATI isn't the answer.

cascade9
January 27th, 2010, 06:11 PM
They're still faster. SLi under Linux works great now as well, it used to suck though.

True, but the 8800GTX was a $600+ card when they come out. I doubt you'll find any on sale now....I did a quick search, and I did find one place that let me add them to a cart, $228-

http://vemaelectronics.net/768MB-PNY-Verto-GeForce-8800GTX-DDR3/M/B000K2B3E0.htm

At that price, its a bit out of the OP desired price range. Not worth it either, 2xGTS250s in SLI is about as fast as 2x8800GTXs. Cheaper as well. Even a nice GTX285 would be cheaper than 2x8800GTXs, and its in the same sort of performance range. Or 2xGTX260s which would stomp the old 880OGTX...not that I'm a fan of SLI in any way. No, not even the classic voodoo2 SLI LOL


And my local PC store is still selling 5200s....

Yeah, my shop still has FX5500s around, and newegg still has GF2MX400s!-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139150

The top end hardware tends to get sold out and never return way before the low end cards even get close to being unavaible.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 06:32 PM
We've been hearing that ATI support is getting better for the entire time I've been around. ATI released their specs a couple of years ago, and we've been hearing how fast things are going to progress since then. And for the past year, we've been hearing people say exactly what you are saying now.

Therefore, I conclude that in 10 years, ATI drivers will be in good working order. Only by then, it won't matter anymore because technology will be completely different anyway.

For people who want things to work now, ATI isn't the answer.

This is incorrect.Why dont you hear it from someone who actually has a ATI card.Many of the comments is from people who hear other people say it.

After 3 years of hearing this nonsense ( no offence ) , i recently got a radeon 4850 (was using an nvidia all this time and was apprehensive when buying an ATI), and using it with the catalyst 9.12 driver and i had no problems at all even with the default fglrx drivers.Nvidia has its own share of problems too btw.

Except some flicker (minor) i play native linux game quake 4/doom3 absolutely good.
New driver releasing every month now,and with 10.1 ( that is jan 2010) , it will be with more minor fixes and good native game performance.

Anyways,the OP's problem seems to be a wine issue really,He is expecting good frame rates for a game under wine really? Sorry ,but that will never happen according to the wine devs themselves.

rajeev

Zoot7
January 27th, 2010, 07:18 PM
Another vote for the GTX260, solid card, and great value for money right about now, there's not much point bothering with something more costly unless your gaming resolution is rather high.

As a side note... You *may* want to hold off for a bit if you want to be a bit more "future proof" with a view to gaming in Windows as Nvidia *are* touted to release a DirectX 11 card at some point in the next few months. That way you'd get the Linux support and the DirectX 11 support, just some food for thought. :)

Anyway, I've a HD4870 card myself and I've had quite a few issues with the closed source fglrx driver in a good few distros, but it works just fine in Debian Lenny at the moment for me. But tbh I don't really game in Linux at all (other than Nexuiz on my laptop) so I probably should be using the open source driver. Go figure.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 08:22 PM
GTX285. I wubs mine.


**I know it's early, but that's a greater than sign**
Yeah, someone pointed that out already but I was in a rush because I had an exam this morning.;)

The ATI drivers are progressing pretty well, while they are still a bit off 3d gaming (see this (http://wiki.x.org/wiki/RadeonProgram#Wine) page), it is coming sooner rather than latter (i.e this isn't the same ATI support is comming, you've heard for the last 3 years).

Unfortunately, just using xorg-edgers, only gets you DRI 1, if you use a new kernel (http://kernel.ubuntu.com/%7Ekernel-ppa/mainline/), you get DRI 2 (requires KMS), which is a lot faster and offers better 3D support. If you want gaming now I would still go with nvidia+prop, but before binning the ATI card I would have a look at what the radeon drivers are going to be like lucid and beyond (running a 2.6.33 rc kernel was even better until I ran into bugs). handy's thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1238129) described the situation in more detail, and with better instructions.
I'll hang on to my current Ati card then, in case things change.

If you do go with an Nvidia, i'd hold on to that ATI card anyhow. The Gallium3D stuff is shaping up to be pretty awesome.
Good idea.

We've been hearing that ATI support is getting better for the entire time I've been around. ATI released their specs a couple of years ago, and we've been hearing how fast things are going to progress since then. And for the past year, we've been hearing people say exactly what you are saying now.

Therefore, I conclude that in 10 years, ATI drivers will be in good working order. Only by then, it won't matter anymore because technology will be completely different anyway.

For people who want things to work now, ATI isn't the answer.
I feel the same.

This is incorrect.Why dont you hear it from someone who actually has a ATI card.Many of the comments is from people who hear other people say it.

After 3 years of hearing this nonsense ( no offence ) , i recently got a radeon 4850 (was using an nvidia all this time and was apprehensive when buying an ATI), and using it with the catalyst 9.12 driver and i had no problems at all even with the default fglrx drivers.Nvidia has its own share of problems too btw.

Except some flicker (minor) i play native linux game quake 4/doom3 absolutely good.
New driver releasing every month now,and with 10.1 ( that is jan 2010) , it will be with more minor fixes and good native game performance.

Anyways,the OP's problem seems to be a wine issue really,He is expecting good frame rates for a game under wine really? Sorry ,but that will never happen according to the wine devs themselves.

rajeev
I'm not sure if you've noticed, but this whole topic was started by someone who uses an Ati card. Also, Quake 4 and doom3 are hardly gpu intensive games.
Plenty of Nvidia and even Ati users experience great framerates in wine games, go read some reviews at winehq. Come on, every Catalyst update people thing that things are going to magically get better, I've heard enough of it.

Techsnap
January 27th, 2010, 08:27 PM
The latest ATi driver just came out, give that a try.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:29 PM
True, but the 8800GTX was a $600+ card when they come out. I doubt you'll find any on sale now....I did a quick search, and I did find one place that let me add them to a cart, $228-

http://vemaelectronics.net/768MB-PNY-Verto-GeForce-8800GTX-DDR3/M/B000K2B3E0.htm

At that price, its a bit out of the OP desired price range. Not worth it either, 2xGTS250s in SLI is about as fast as 2x8800GTXs. Cheaper as well. Even a nice GTX285 would be cheaper than 2x8800GTXs, and its in the same sort of performance range. Or 2xGTX260s which would stomp the old 880OGTX...not that I'm a fan of SLI in any way. No, not even the classic voodoo2 SLI LOL



Yeah, my shop still has FX5500s around, and newegg still has GF2MX400s!-

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814139150

The top end hardware tends to get sold out and never return way before the low end cards even get close to being unavaible.

An 8800 GTX has the edge over GTX 250 at high res. You could also pick a couple up off eBay for about $200 if you can't find them instore.

Anyway, even an 8600GT SLi setup would be fine for Linux.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 08:31 PM
Yeah, someone pointed that out already but I was in a rush because I had an exam this morning.;)

I'll hang on to my current Ati card then, in case things change.

Good idea.

I feel the same.

I'm not sure if you've noticed, but this whole topic was started by someone who uses an Ati card. Also, Quake 4 and doom3 are hardly gpu intensive games.
Plenty of Nvidia and even Ati users experience great framerates in wine games, go read some reviews at winehq. Come on, every Catalyst update people thing that things are going to magically get better, I've heard enough of it.


About doom3 and quake 4 not being gpu intensive,i dont think you have either one of them.Those games still struggle with an integrated chipset.
And they were released in 2005.They may not be the poorly optimised gpu hog that crysis is,but they are still very relevant games graphically.Thats why the doom3 engine is still used in some games today,.

Modern warfare 2uses a modified quake4 engine and if that is not gpu intensive, i think you got your facts wrong.

As far the thread being started,the poster hasnt given much data and is talking about playing with wine for most of his games.

Its officially known that wine will generally give lesser fps than the native windows version.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:32 PM
Its officially known that wine will always give lesser fps than the native windows version.

Not true, some games run faster under WINE.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Not true, some games run faster under WINE.

Yes, i know there are some exceptions but in general you know how wine works.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:34 PM
Yes, i know there are some exceptions but in general you know how wine works.

If you know, don't say 'always'...

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 08:36 PM
If you know, don't say 'always'...

Apologies.Also edited the previous post.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:37 PM
Apologies.Also edited the previous post.

Anything else?

lol :P

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 08:40 PM
lol :P

OK edited that 'anything else?' too. ;)

But yeah,getting back to the ihermit post, i suggest he stick to his ATI now,open drivers will soon come with 3d for the HD 4000 series also.


http://www.x.org/wiki/radeonhd

Techsnap
January 27th, 2010, 08:44 PM
open drivers will soon come with 3d for the HD 4000 series also.

They already do, I tested Mesa 7.7 and 2.6.32 with KMS on Slack and I got reasonable 3D On my 4850, so sooner or later it should be up to a pretty good standard.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:45 PM
They already do, I tested Mesa 7.7 and 2.6.32 with KMS on Slack and I got reasonable 3D On my 4850, so sooner or later it should be up to a pretty good standard.

What constitutes 'reasonable 3D'?

Queue29
January 27th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Heh, Have fun with nVidia, not once but twice they've screwed me other with Chipset drivers on WINDOWS. So if they can't even get Windows right how can anyone expect them to continue getting Linux right.


Exact opposite for me. I had an HD4550 on Vista. Worked fine. Then upgraded to 7, and first of all, the built in drivers in 7 didn't recognize the card at all, so I had to use the onboard video and download and install official drivers. After that, suspend and hibernate could never turn the screen back on. Then on Ubuntu, 9.04 worked perfectly fine with it, while 9.10 couldn't even get X going. So I bought a 9400GT and it works perfectly on both 7 and 9.10. So yea, nVidia WorksForMe(TM).

Techsnap
January 27th, 2010, 08:46 PM
Compositing worked absolutely fine and I got good FPS on Open Arena on high settings. Sure that's nothing on the proprietary driver however it does show that it is going to be there eventually.


Exact opposite for me. I had an HD4550 on Vista. Worked fine. Then upgraded to 7, and first of all, the built in drivers in 7 didn't recognize the card at all, so I had to use the onboard video and download and install official drivers.

Did you disable the onboard graphics in the BIOS?

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 08:47 PM
They already do, I tested Mesa 7.7 and 2.6.32 with KMS on Slack and I got reasonable 3D On my 4850, so sooner or later it should be up to a pretty good standard.

Its under testing is it? I cant figure the difference between galium3d and radeon driver.

BrokenKingpin
January 27th, 2010, 08:49 PM
If you play a lot of games that run on Windows, just have a Windows partition.

I never understood why people go through so much effort to run all their games in Wine. If it was one game I could see why, as it would be a waste of time to have a separate OS install for one game, but if you are a gamer, then just dual boot.

ticklemehomeboi
January 27th, 2010, 08:52 PM
I never understood why people go through so much effort to run all their games in Wine.

Self flagellation.

KiwiNZ
January 27th, 2010, 08:55 PM
If you have a desire to play games either dual boot or buy a console. You will save a lot of Doctors bills and medication.

TomyVk
January 27th, 2010, 08:58 PM
You can also check codeweavers.com and get their crossover games pack.

My games work well on a ati radeon hd 4650.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 09:02 PM
I think this thread can be closed now.Or moved to recurring? Or we can continue arguing here .

The main point is, you buy a Nvidia GTX 250 or a radeon 4000 card so you can play the latest games, and the latest games are all for windows.Its written on the box clearly.And painfully slow in wine.In fact,most of APPDB ratings for the latest games is 'garbage'.Valve games work for some,dont work for many.Why break your heads with wine when you can dual boot anyway.I like my games and my graphics card to run like butter and it aint possible in wine.

I Have a 4850 radeon and i just downloaded the catalyst 10.1 driver.Did it make any difference.I cant say since i cant run any new games and my card clockspeed is really a waste on linux.

I play quake4 nicely though ,and it worked fine with older fglrx drivers too .But thats because its a native linux game version like doom3.Or enemy territory.Other than id's quake4/doom3 engine, i havent seen any new game for linux which is cutting edge.

And if you have an older ATI,the open source drivers are just dapper.

AugeIN
January 27th, 2010, 09:17 PM
I think this thread can be closed now.Or moved to recurring? Or we can continue arguing here .

The main point is, you buy a Nvidia GTX 250 or a radeon 4000 card so you can play the latest games, and the latest games are all for windows.Its written on the box clearly.And painfully slow in wine.In fact,most of APPDB ratings for the latest games is 'garbage'.Valve games work for some,dont work for many.Why break your heads with wine when you can dual boot anyway.I like my games and my graphics card to run like butter and it aint possible in wine.

I Have a 4850 radeon and i just downloaded the catalyst 10.1 driver.Did it make any difference.I cant say since i cant run any new games and my card clockspeed is really a waste on linux.

I play quake4 nicely though ,and it worked fine with older fglrx drivers too .But thats because its a native linux game version like doom3.Or enemy territory.Other than id's quake4/doom3 engine, i havent seen any new game for linux which is cutting edge.

And if you have an older ATI,the open source drivers are just dapper.

The opensource ATI drivers buck salls. KMS doesn't work on my card -__-

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 09:27 PM
I have no desire to dualboot. Of the games I like to play, most run fine in Linux. While you seem to be set on Quake, I'm a bigger fan of MMO's such as Atlantica, Perfect World, Ether Saga, and I'd also like to try WOW and Eve. These games all have platinum ratings and I have tested a few of them. If I want to play FPS games, yes I have an xbox. However, on the PC I like MMO's to waste time. I am not getting very good performance with my current card so I am looking to buy a different one from a vendor that has better drivers out. Also, it seems like you're trying to say that wine games will perform poorly regardless. Check out this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpJPgw1Wgcw
A lot of games that didn't work pre-wine 1.3x are now working perfectly or close to it. Of course there will be a performance drop, but that's not to say performance is improving.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 09:52 PM
I have no desire to dualboot. Of the games I like to play, most run fine in Linux. While you seem to be set on Quake, I'm a bigger fan of MMO's such as Atlantica, Perfect World, Ether Saga, and I'd also like to try WOW and Eve. These games all have platinum ratings and I have tested a few of them. If I want to play FPS games, yes I have an xbox. However, on the PC I like MMO's to waste time. I am not getting very good performance with my current card so I am looking to buy a different one from a vendor that has better drivers out. Also, it seems like you're trying to say that wine games will perform poorly regardless. Check out this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpJPgw1Wgcw
A lot of games that didn't work pre-wine 1.3x are now working perfectly or close to it. Of course there will be a performance drop, but that's not to say performance is improving.

Yes, if you read some of my posts, i have said you havent posted much info about specific games.

About the youtube link,iam happy to see that,but as you know,different peple have diff menu corruption issues etc with the game.But anyways,all iam saying is, the game is meant to be played on windows,so getting the best performance on wine is asking too much IMO.

Thats all.I am a huge cod fan too, and if it works good i will be happy to run in wine.


Did you know there are some good world of warcraft threads in games and leisure section? You should check those out.Iam sure posting there will get you more specific replies.YOu posted in cafe and i gave some good links and open driver progress etc.Didnt mean to be rude.

Yes,iam a little stuck on fps,but the gaming section should answer your questions.
Also,i have the wine ppa installed to try and see if anything runs , but its a wine problem really , not ATI's.

I suggest you stick with this card ,also, new drivers came out today.try them too.There is fixes for 2d lag etc with 9.12 and 10.1 drivers , do try them out.I dont use compiz so for me i have no issues with my HD 4850 .There is slight flicker on booting X and during loading,otherwise its good.

rajeev

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 10:24 PM
If you play a lot of games that run on Windows, just have a Windows partition.

I never understood why people go through so much effort to run all their games in Wine. If it was one game I could see why, as it would be a waste of time to have a separate OS install for one game, but if you are a gamer, then just dual boot.


Compositing worked absolutely fine and I got good FPS on Open Arena on high settings. Sure that's nothing on the proprietary driver however it does show that it is going to be there eventually.



Did you disable the onboard graphics in the BIOS?


Yes, if you read some of my posts, i have said you havent posted much info about specific games.

About the youtube link,iam happy to see that,but as you know,different peple have diff menu corruption issues etc with the game.But anyways,all iam saying is, the game is meant to be played on windows,so getting the best performance on wine is asking too much IMO.

Thats all.I am a huge cod fan too, and if it works good i will be happy to run in wine.


Did you know there are some good world of warcraft threads in games and leisure section? You should check those out.Iam sure posting there will get you more specific replies.YOu posted in cafe and i gave some good links and open driver progress etc.Didnt mean to be rude.

Yes,iam a little stuck on fps,but the gaming section should answer your questions.
Also,i have the wine ppa installed to try and see if anything runs , but its a wine problem really , not ATI's.

I suggest you stick with this card ,also, new drivers came out today.try them too.There is fixes for 2d lag etc with 9.12 and 10.1 drivers , do try them out.I dont use compiz so for me i have no issues with my HD 4850 .There is slight flicker on booting X and during loading,otherwise its good.

rajeev
Thank you for you input, I think I still have a bit of research to do.
I hope to keep this thread open so maybe some more nvidia users can post their experiences. This thread may need to be moved, but I'm not sure if it should go in gaming/leisure or wine, seeing as I'm looking for both wine and native performance. Oh well.

forrestcupp
January 27th, 2010, 10:32 PM
This is incorrect.Why dont you hear it from someone who actually has a ATI card.Many of the comments is from people who hear other people say it.Well, you were replying to my post. Just so you'll know, I've been troubleshooting ATI cards in Linux for the past 5 years. I'm not someone who is just rambling on, parroting what others have said. I have a lot of experience with it, and I have come to the conclusion that if a person has the option of using nvidia, they will have a lot less headaches.

I hope for good ATI support because there are people, such as laptop users, who don't have a choice. But for those who do have a choice, I will promote nvidia until ATI is actually as functional in Linux.


The latest ATi driver just came out, give that a try.Lol. I've been hoping in the "latest" ATI drivers for years now. They always have some good fixes, but never worth choosing ATI over nvidia.


If you have a desire to play games either dual boot or buy a console. You will save a lot of Doctors bills and medication.This is good advice, and the only real choice for Linux users.

rajeev1204
January 27th, 2010, 10:44 PM
Well, you were replying to my post. Just so you'll know, I've been troubleshooting ATI cards in Linux for the past 5 years.

Its not really that relevant that you troubleshooted ATI for 5 years ,5 years ago ,both nvidia and ATI on linux were cr*p.Today its a different story,not only have the ATI open source drivers reached good performance andquality, the proprietary drivers are getting on par with nvidia .But if you have noticed otherwise,i think you can also add to the unofficial ATI wiki page about the issues.They have a bugzilla tracker.Maybe Nvidia users are more actively reporting bugs?

Iam an Nvdia /ATI user, did you know Nvidia had that black window bugand other issues which was never fixed for years? The coin has 2 sides.

Anyways,my reply was not directly aimed at you, you know the story, many threads here which talk too much FUD about ATI,and my experience hasbeen totally different with them.
So i post good things about it and bash people who dont. :D

Techsnap
January 27th, 2010, 10:49 PM
Remember AMD only took ATi over a few years ago and that's when the Linux side of things got improved, I personally think they've done good work in this time and the FOSS drivers are becoming usable.

Frak
January 27th, 2010, 10:55 PM
Why do you say that?
It's like taking your full game, and downgrading it to a demo.

You get most of the features, but not all of the features. It's just in Wine's design. Seriously, if you really want to be a hardcore gamer, run it on the OS that it intended.

KiwiNZ
January 27th, 2010, 10:58 PM
It's like taking your full game, and downgrading it to a demo.

You get most of the features, but not all of the features. It's just in Wine's design. Seriously, if you really want to be a hardcore gamer, run it on the OS that it intended.

Exactly

Until games are natively written for Linux they will always be at best an Elastoplast stitch up.

Even When using Windows to play games I dual boot to a lean mean Gaming Windows profile to extract the best of the hardware for the game.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 11:20 PM
Exactly

Until games are natively written for Linux they will always be at best an Elastoplast stitch up.

Even When using Windows to play games I dual boot to a lean mean Gaming Windows profile to extract the best of the hardware for the game.
A lot of games run perfectly in wine though. I also have an xbox for most fps games that do not perform as well on linux, however even that is improving.

SmittyJensen
January 27th, 2010, 11:34 PM
A lot of games run perfectly in wine though. I also have an xbox for most fps games that do not perform as well on linux, however even that is improving.
in wine there's bugs everywhere, and if you dont have a bug yet you will (mainly if using the dev version), and then what you actually get is a program running on something that it isnt intended to be running on. thats when you start running into all kinds of little issues (things that take away from the experience).

then you finally realize, what the hell am i doing and go install windows.

AllRadioisDead
January 27th, 2010, 11:55 PM
in wine there's bugs everywhere, and if you dont have a bug yet you will (mainly if using the dev version), and then what you actually get is a program running on something that it isnt intended to be running on. thats when you start running into all kinds of little issues (things that take away from the experience).

then you finally realize, what the hell am i doing and go install windows.
Actually, you get a game you like playing on a platform you like using, assuming all goes well.

SmittyJensen
January 27th, 2010, 11:56 PM
Actually, you get a game you like playing on a platform you like using, assuming all goes well.
ok buddy, you keep using wine then. :)

llawwehttam
January 28th, 2010, 12:00 AM
I personally have had nothing but good experiences with the proprietary nvidia drivers in linux. The card I would recommend would be an nvidia Geforece 9800GTX if you can lay your hands on one.

forrestcupp
January 28th, 2010, 12:06 AM
Its not really that relevant that you troubleshooted ATI for 5 years ,5 years ago ,both nvidia and ATI on linux were cr*p.I didn't say that I troubleshot ATI 5 years ago; I said I've been doing it for 5 years. I do admit that it has been off and on, but I always try to check out the latest updates.


Iam an Nvdia /ATI user, did you know Nvidia had that black window bugand other issues which was never fixed for years? The coin has 2 sides.I know nvidia has bugs, too. Tearing has been another big one. But nvidia's bugs have generally been a lot less annoying and a lot easier to workaround than ATI's bugs.


Anyways,my reply was not directly aimed at you, you know the story, many threads here which talk too much FUD about ATI,and my experience hasbeen totally different with them.
So i post good things about it and bash people who dont. :DI am glad that you have had a good experience. But for the people who have had a lot of headaches, sometimes it's good to look into other options.


ok buddy, you keep using wine then. :)Hey, if it works well for what you want to play, why not? Dual booting is too much of a pain to do it unnecessarily. ;)

AllRadioisDead
January 28th, 2010, 12:08 AM
ok buddy, you keep using wine then. :)
Speak for yourself, you actually got maple running, which I am still yet to do. :popcorn:

I personally have had nothing but good experiences with the proprietary nvidia drivers in linux. The card I would recommend would be an nvidia Geforece 9800GTX if you can lay your hands on one.
Cool, anything in particular you use it for?
Wine Games?
Native Games?
or just regular 2D desktop effects?

AllRadioisDead
January 28th, 2010, 12:12 AM
Hey, if it works well for what you want to play, why not? Dual booting is too much of a pain to do it unnecessarily. ;)
That's what I'm saying! :popcorn:
I'm currently using dwm right now which is very minimal, and I have separate workspaces for different activities and one is devoted to games. If I get bored, pause what I'm doing, switch in and fire something up. That beats stopping what I'm doing, rebooting the computer, booting into a different OS, play a game for an hour, then go back into Linux. Plus it saves space!