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View Full Version : The corporate mind set and linux.



Roland TD-12 Rat
January 23rd, 2010, 04:44 PM
Please tell me if my assumptions are incorrect, but it seems to me that certain peripheral manufacturers are missing a point somewhere. Since Canonical came good with Ubuntu,their stable 8.10, 9.04, and 9.10, distros are among the fastest proliferating platforms out there? So why in the name of market share are these guys not cashing in like crazy, on a massive opportunity. If they would only pay some attention to the low end and middle range product driver support under linux (O.K. lots of distros with maybe subtle variations, but at least home in on the major and most popular of them). If they are not careful they will learn the hard way as did Digital Research when a certain golfing enthusiast chose to give higher priority to a golfing engagement than a meet with IBM about this ridiculous idea of an operating system tailored to a personal computer. Maybe Bill Gates just doesn't like golf :-).
What's the point of this rant? Well how do we get these guys to wake up and smell the coffee? If they can't be bothered, at least release enough information/data into the public domain in order that others can be!

k64
January 23rd, 2010, 05:17 PM
Okay, for the record, here's a link to the GPL:

http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.txt

Read it. It *IS* the license that comes by default with Ubuntu Linux, and it means something more important than money: The elimination of greed!

JDShu
January 23rd, 2010, 05:28 PM
To make drivers work nicely with Linux, they need to be open source. Companies might not want to do that for whatever reason.

k64
January 23rd, 2010, 06:25 PM
To make drivers work nicely with Linux, they need to be open source. Companies might not want to do that for whatever reason.

Yeah. True, but what about jockey-gtk?

KiwiNZ
January 23rd, 2010, 06:48 PM
A few points .

1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.

2. Fastest proliferating platform? I think that is currently Windows 7

The corporate mindset set is simple...cost effectiveness.

Techsnap
January 23rd, 2010, 06:56 PM
They can't usually outright opensource stuff because there are probably certain conditions which cannot possibly be exposed to third parties so they'll create proprietary drivers. Now I wrote an article on proprietary drivers a while ago on another website, I used ATi for example, so I'll quote what I wrote here:


I've seen far too many ATi rants on various Linux forums now, so I just need to post this. I'm going to use ATi as an example here because it's what I have to use fglrx, I like ATi and it's really not their fault that **** doesn't always work right.

This is why if ATi pulled away from Linux although I own their graphics cards I'd ******* praise them in a way. They make a driver for Linux, 2 weeks later some new **** comes out and the driver is ******, there's no backwards compatibility going on and this is something which I think OpenSolaris does right.

ATi have released their spec so the FOSS people can make something useful out of it, what have they achieved? ******* little, sure they'll say oh it's getting there, it's a start, but no because the proprietary drivers could ******* do this last year! Can't use the old drivers to prove it though because it won't be supported anymore because the system has changed too ******* much. I can use versions of the ATi driver that existed before Vista was released and they will work just fine, sure they don't have all the improvements the new versions do but the point is they ******* work!

X11 is another thing, they release new versions because of new functionality (Yeah new functionality, you mean like my Xbox360 controller being detected as mouse initially?), it's good if you're going to make a new version but they really need to introduce something which is pretty much unknown in the Linux world and it's called BACKWARDS COMPATIBILITY!

With ATi releasing drivers and people complaining that they're not working with Arch for example here well it's easy, Arch is cutting edge, you can't expect ATi to cater for them, they don't have the resources to do so, they've got to pay their team because in the real world people aren't going to come to work to do **** for free, there are only so many hours in a working day so you can't possibly expect them to test it on every distro especially make a rolling driver for an OS which isn't backwards compatible with anything because they'd have to have a team running 24/7, which is fine but it's going to cost and considering probably not even 1% of ATi's customers are going to be using Linux anyway then it's fair enough that there can't always be a new version of the driver for everything new on Linux, X, Kernels etc.

It makes sense that ATi will only support the main distros that their customers use which are things like, Ubuntu, RHEL, SLED/SLES, OpenSUSE etc. Other distros really aren't that important to them because 1) They'll need even more money to run such a small department, 2) An even smaller percentage of their 1% Linux Users will be using these distros.

Also stuff has changed since I wrote it since the FOSS ATi drivers are good, and the filter really shows you how much I swore without realising haha. But ignore the FOSS stuff, I'm focusing on why proprietary drivers aren't too great on Linux.

Now after reading that, consider that ATi is a big company. Now look at some of the other hardware companies which are absolutely nothing compared to ATi, it makes sense why they simply cannot support Linux.

RabbitWho
January 23rd, 2010, 08:06 PM
A few points .

1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.
.

:)

dmn_clown
January 23rd, 2010, 08:17 PM
1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.

You left out "pays the bribes to the politicians to keep business interests safe."

eriktheblu
January 23rd, 2010, 08:33 PM
[profit per unit] * ([units sold] * [Linux market share]) - ([cost of driver developement] + [cost of distribution]) = [potential profit]

In most cases, potential profit from this model either costs the manufacturer, or promises limited returns.

Consider instead this model:

[profit per unit] * ([units sold] * [Linux market share]) * [Odds of successful Linux community driver developement] = [potential profit]

IF [potential profit in model A] > [potential profit in model B] THEN [hire a dev team] ELSE [cross fingers and hope for community development]

MasterNetra
January 23rd, 2010, 09:57 PM
...
1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.
...

We don't need a monetary system for that. See "The Venus Project"/" The Zeitgeist Movement" for more details.

And to the Profit is not greed. That maybe so but the pursuit of profit 9/10 leads to greed and corruption.


Please tell me if my assumptions are incorrect, but it seems to me that certain peripheral manufacturers are missing a point somewhere. Since Canonical came good with Ubuntu,their stable 8.10, 9.04, and 9.10, distros are among the fastest proliferating platforms out there? So why in the name of market share are these guys not cashing in like crazy, on a massive opportunity. If they would only pay some attention to the low end and middle range product driver support under linux (O.K. lots of distros with maybe subtle variations, but at least home in on the major and most popular of them). If they are not careful they will learn the hard way as did Digital Research when a certain golfing enthusiast chose to give higher priority to a golfing engagement than a meet with IBM about this ridiculous idea of an operating system tailored to a personal computer. Maybe Bill Gates just doesn't like golf :-).
What's the point of this rant? Well how do we get these guys to wake up and smell the coffee? If they can't be bothered, at least release enough information/data into the public domain in order that others can be!

Linux is still too small in the eyes of the Suits (business men).

SuperSonic4
January 23rd, 2010, 10:07 PM
A few points .

1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.

2. Fastest proliferating platform? I think that is currently Windows 7

The corporate mindset set is simple...cost effectiveness.

1. I agree, it's the basis of capitalist society which all the developed world uses-even China. Although you will get a lot of conspiracy theories on that one.

On cost effectiveness couldn't agree more. Linux is growing but 50 times a minuscule amount is still a minuscule amount

Roland TD-12 Rat
January 25th, 2010, 08:44 PM
Peace, Love, and nice reaction. :-) the world is awake.
Never the less, in the name of profit and jobs, it's like the auto parts trade. The profit in a complete vehicle's worth of parts is vastly greater than that of just another vehicle. Just because the linux platform is not the elitist alternative to Bill gates, does not make it unworthy of consideration when it comes to hardware sales. Also, windows doesn't count :-) Too established.

Roland TD-12 Rat
January 26th, 2010, 10:13 AM
First, let me apologise for my initial outburst. Just venting a little hot air, and yes, just another rant. Second, while I am sure you've heard it all before, but obscure as it may have been, the point I meant to make was this. Manufacturers who fail to support a minority platform because to them it does not represent a large enough market share, create a self fulfilling prophecy, in that the market share it represents will not grow if not properly supported. Thus the somewhat blinkered attitude in the longer term loses them money. O.K. said my bit. I'll roll over and beg now. Sorry if this was a poor choice of thread :-)

user1397
January 26th, 2010, 10:20 AM
We don't need a monetary system for that. See "The Venus Project"/" The Zeitgeist Movement" for more details.*good to know some people on these forums are aware of such projects

caravel
January 26th, 2010, 10:41 AM
A few points .

1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.

2. Fastest proliferating platform? I think that is currently Windows 7

The corporate mindset set is simple...cost effectiveness.

In your opinion.

DoctorMO
January 26th, 2010, 11:29 AM
1. Profit is not greed, it creates jobs ,puts food on plates, educates houses and treats the ill etc.


Revenue creates jobs, pays wages, wages pay for food and taxes, taxes pay for education and treat the sick (unless your in the USA, where healing is banned)

Profit is what you get _after_ revenue, it's the bit left over, even after reinvestment into growth of the company.

It's the money that goes to the share holders, work rent, people who sit on their arses, do no work and expect to earn money from the good grace of already owning money, instead of spending it honestly and letting it re-enter to economy. "Oh! but we took a risk..." *roll eyes*