Your preferred OS for font rendering? [Archive]

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madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 11:40 AM

In a recent thread about the new Firefox, I noticed a lot of folks actually prefer Linux fonts to Windows or OSX. Now personally I think* Ubuntu does a nice job on fonts but with Windows it has literally never been an issue at all. I hold my hands up to Microsoft, IMHO they got them perfect.

But now I'm not sure if my opinion is founded on the fact I've used Windows for 90% of my life. Even on OSX, I find the kerning is okay, but it just looks too blurry and blocky for me.

What do you guys think? :P

XP vs Jaunty sample (http://jack.kingbrick.co.uk/blog/fonts-test.png) (EDIT: samples are inverted - check the drop down interface)
XP vs OSX sample (http://jack.kingbrick.co.uk/blog/mac-fonts2.png)

*I wrote what I think in this very opinionated and ignorant blog post (http://jack.kingbrick.co.uk/madness/2009/08/windows-ubuntu-fonts)but please - don't get mad if you're easily aggravated

caravel

January 22nd, 2010, 12:03 PM

The Ubuntu one looks better to me.

spupy

January 22nd, 2010, 12:09 PM

I like the font rendering in Linux. It is somehow consistent (although firefox and thunderbird have the most awful font settings dialog, I still don't understand it). In windows on the other hand some apps I use decide for themselves, and their defaults look bad.
Also, in Firefox I don't allow websites to use custom fonts. They all use the font I specified in the preferences, and it looks good.

madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 12:11 PM

I'm dead against custom web fonts. Everything should be either Arial, Verdana or Times New Roman.

humphreybc

January 22nd, 2010, 12:53 PM

I find Ubuntu to have the nicest font rendering of the three. Chrome fonts look absolutely magical, and PDFs are lovely.

Grenage

January 22nd, 2010, 12:59 PM

On that screenshot, easily Windows.

madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 01:10 PM

Daisuke_Aramaki

January 22nd, 2010, 01:57 PM

I am no fan of antialiasing. so it doesn't really matter for me. But Windows' native font implementation is unbeatable.

spupy

January 22nd, 2010, 02:18 PM

Forgot to say, I inverted those samples to take the p1ss, better screen-shots below (harder to call too...)

Windows 7 (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/img/press/screenshot-firefox-windows7.png)
OSX (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/img/press/screenshot-firefox-mac.png)
Linux (GNOME theme) (http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/img/press/screenshot-firefox-linux.png)

Wut? Is this for real? OSX's fonts look very bad! (Compare the text in the green box). Even the font on the bookmark bar looks bad. Is it really like that? The company renowned for its UI design has fonts that suck more than the other two?

carjack

January 22nd, 2010, 02:21 PM

OS X is best.

THe Linux and Windows rendering have always been too distorted and artifact, it's a matter of opinion and that's my opinion.

ubunterooster

January 22nd, 2010, 02:36 PM

This is a Linux forum, Linux users like Linux fonts (or change them so they DO), therefore most people here will likely prefer Linux fonts.

madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 02:38 PM

Wut? Is this for real? OSX's fonts look very bad! (Compare the text in the green box). Even the font on the bookmark bar looks bad. Is it really like that? The company renowned for its UI design has fonts that suck more than the other two?
I agree. I used a mac during my A-levels. When I went to browse the web, I couldn't get over how bad it looked. To me, the kerning looks better in OSX (how the letters are placed next to each other) but the default Linux in this instance wins by a landslide.

THe Linux and Windows rendering have always been too distorted and artifact, it's a matter of opinion and that's my opinion.
Visible artifact is measurable to a degree, but you're right, so long as it's readable it's just down to personal preference.

xuCGC002

January 22nd, 2010, 03:23 PM

OS X is best.

THe Linux and Windows rendering have always been too distorted and artifact, it's a matter of opinion and that's my opinion.

Have you tried changing fonts or adjusting anti-aliasing?

Simian Man

January 22nd, 2010, 03:32 PM

I honestly get used to whatever I'm working with. After using one system for a while then switching to a new one, the fonts on the new one always look strange until I get used to them. Maybe that's just me though.

Ric_NYC

January 22nd, 2010, 04:44 PM

In my laptop to get the best fonts:

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/8724/84262967.png

System>Preferences>Appearance>Fonts>Subpixel Smoothing (LCDs)

Barrucadu

January 22nd, 2010, 04:55 PM

Ew, in that screenshot, the Windows fonts definitely.

Is that in firefox? I find firefox fonts to be rubbish. Opera is far nicer in that regard.

madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 04:56 PM

Is that in firefox? I find firefox fonts to be rubbish. Opera is far nicer in that regard.
Surely browsers use system fonts?

hessiess

January 22nd, 2010, 05:11 PM

Generally Linux, Windows fonts tent to look aliased and ugh.

caravel

January 22nd, 2010, 05:12 PM

Surely browsers use system fonts?

I think Firefox has it's own font dpi and hinting options.

Ric_NYC

January 22nd, 2010, 05:17 PM

I don't think it is a matter of "taste".
It's common sense.

Spacing

http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/2032/spacing.jpg

Kerning

http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/6350/kerning.jpg

Pixelation

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/4884/pixels.jpg

http://www.fonts.com/AboutFonts/Articles/fyti/SpacingKerning1.htm

madnessjack

January 22nd, 2010, 05:29 PM

I don't think it is a matter of "taste".
It's common sense.
But the rasterisation can vary greatly across systems. Linux and OS X tend to alias smoothly whereas Windows (XP that I'm using) tends to be sharper. All work but it's interesting to see the variety (those screen-shots - they're all completely different).

forrestcupp

January 22nd, 2010, 06:01 PM

I can't believe more people are really saying Linux. There are a lot of awesome things about Linux, but let's be honest; font rendering is not one of them. That was the first thing I noticed when I recently installed the latest Ubuntu after using Win7 for a while. The font rendering almost hurts my eyes.

Ubom

January 22nd, 2010, 06:41 PM

I am a big fan of Ubuntu so don't take this the wrong way also remember that personal opinion is a big factor in this decision. In total, all three OSs display fonts pretty well except XP has THE worst font rendering (i guess it is pretty old) so comparisons should really only use Vista and Seven.

I will have to say that out of the three Ubuntu has the slightly worse font rendering, please don't take that as me saying Ubuntu is terrible but in this aspect it seems that Ubuntu has the worst font rendering.

OS X has always been aimed at designers so font rendering seems to be more aimed at making the fonts an accurate representation. If you print a document using that font, then compare the printed out document to what you see on screen OS X will almost certainly look most like the actual font than the other systems. This means that OS X rendering appeals to people who like their fonts to be accurate.

The thing about Windows is that it might be completely accurate but on displays (especially smaller displays like on Netbooks) the text is very clear and sharp making it easier to read text on a screen for longer periods of time. This appeals to people who will rather sacrifice some accuracy for a more easy to read font.

For more information you can look here (although this blog does seem to be pretty bias towards OS X):
http://damieng.com/blog/2007/06/13/font-rendering-philosophies-of-windows-and-mac-os-x

or this for a very detailed view at font rendering:
http://antigrain.com/research/font_rasterization/

Now I know that I have said Ubuntu is slightly worse but (not completely sure about OS X) the font rendering can actually be modified in the OSs so if it really bothers you can simply change the font rendering on your computer, if you want your Windows fonts to be more like Ubuntu I sure with a couple minutes of tweaking it is possible.

I personally find Windows has the best font rendering because I prefer sitting quite far back from the screen when reading.

carjack

January 22nd, 2010, 06:45 PM

Going on my mates iMac from using Ubuntu the font improvement is clear, Ubuntu car'nt match OS X in that respect. OS X is just perfect no matter how much one may dislike Apple.

As for Windows I car'nt be sure as I've not used it for many moons.

Regenweald

January 22nd, 2010, 07:10 PM

Actually, another OS with amazing fone rendering that is not in the poll is Opensolaris. Usually when I use full hinting in Ubuntu things get a little shakey and so I leave it on slight. The first time I attempted it in Opensolaris, I was expecting the same issue but I was asked to confirm the use of proprietary technology from Apple (was not expecting that!) then BOOM! absolutely amazing font rendering. I was shocked at the quality. So I'd place Opensolaris above GNU rendering also.

Ric_NYC

January 22nd, 2010, 07:29 PM

phrostbyte

January 22nd, 2010, 07:58 PM

Linux, but only if you change the system fonts to Liberation Sans and Mono. :P

The default fonts in Ubuntu are meh.

spupy

January 23rd, 2010, 12:40 AM

It's good talking until someone provides screenshots from the three OSs with their defaults.

Regenweald

January 23rd, 2010, 12:44 AM

Interesting.

These are my font settings in Ubuntu:

http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2895/fontsettings.png

Essentially the same here

toupeiro

January 23rd, 2010, 01:44 AM

man, maybe I'm alone, but Font rendering is just not preference material when I get ready to pick an OS... Seriously, you'd pick OS-A over OS-B because of Font rendering?

Regenweald

January 23rd, 2010, 06:51 AM

man, maybe I'm alone, but Font rendering is just not preference material when I get ready to pick an OS... Seriously, you'd pick OS-A over OS-B because of Font rendering?

Well....no :D I just shared my opinion on the matter of best font quality.

madnessjack

January 23rd, 2010, 08:23 PM

man, maybe I'm alone, but Font rendering is just not preference material when I get ready to pick an OS... Seriously, you'd pick OS-A over OS-B because of Font rendering?
To be honest, presentation means a lot. Heck, Apple wouldn't be in business if it wasn't for aesthetics.

Looking at the results I'm intrigued, I mean I knew there was going to be bias :P but it's heart-warming to know that users prefer the font presentation of their favourite OS over a gazillion-dollar-to-develop product.

Personally I think aesthetics is one of Linux's biggest turn-offs when compared to the alternatives. This screen-shot always gets my guts churning (http://hacktolive.org/w/images/Ubuntu_on_Windows_-_running_Synaptic_and_nautilus.png) - compare this elegant little clear and sharp fonts of Windows to the bulky blotchy things in GNOME :P

From this thread I've learnt that I'm shallow and vein (I knew it anyway really :P). I still do love Ubuntu though and it gives me a pleasure when using that neither Apple or Microsoft could ever emulate :)

HoboElectus

January 23rd, 2010, 08:35 PM

Ubuntu.

StiltonSandwich

January 24th, 2010, 09:20 PM

I prefer Linux for font rendering.

On Windows, I have a choice between non-anti-aliased text or ClearType. Non-anti-aliased text looks ugly and unrefined. ClearType gives me a headache.

On OS X, I must endure something altogether too fuzzy for my liking. It's perfect in terms of appearance, but it can be a strain to actually read it.

On Linux, I can have greyscale anti-aliasing that snaps to pixel boundaries. This is clear, easy to read and doesn't play tricks on my eyes that mess up my vision. But if I actually want something Windows-style or OS X-style, a Linux OS will allow me to configure that instead.

I consider font rendering to be one of the many small benefits that add up to make Linux so appealing.

The Toxic Mite

January 24th, 2010, 09:28 PM

I'd say it depends on how well one's sense of sight works.

I can tolerate all of the aforementioned systems' font rendering settings. I prefer GNOME's rendering settings to that of Windows and Mac OS X, but I can read them all clearly. :)

benerivo

January 24th, 2010, 09:48 PM

I like my linux setup, although windows does the cleartype thing really well. I was in a shop last week and checked out a macbook pro on display. The fonts seemed poor to me. All in all, i think there used to be a problem with linux, but it seems to be fine now.

happysadhu

October 1st, 2010, 10:46 PM

My favorite font rendering OS is Windows (e.g., XP) with cleartype turned off. I prefer crisp and sharp over smooth. Both OS X and Ubuntu tire my eyes more quickly, even with changing the Ubuntu font settings to as close as I can get to XP.

I love Ubuntu. But unless I can get the fonts looking sharper, I am going to have to resort to XP for most of my work.

Cheers,
Sam