Things make ubuntu not popular in my country

[mhdbnoimi]

Hi All,

Although ubuntu takes the lights as most popular distro as mentioned in http://distrowatch.com/ but it still not user friendly in my country because:


It's completely depending on Internet connection:
In my country the Internet service still living in 20th century because dial-up connection (soft modem problems) is the common service because the other Internet connections (ADSL, Leased line...etc) are very expensive and not available in may areas.
So many ubuntu users in my country have to download needed packages manually which is a devil solution because of dependency hell of deb files (notice that AptOnCD not working on Windows while most Internet cafes using Windows and Canonical not provide DVDs or CDs for their repositories).

It hasn't common multimedia codecs and hardware drivers:
many Linux distros has non-open source codecs and drivers by default (included in their CDs) while ubuntu not!

[3rdalbum]

Hi All,

Although ubuntu takes the lights as most popular distro as mentioned in http://distrowatch.com/ but it still not user friendly in my country because:


It's completely depending on Internet connection:
In my country the Internet service still living in 20th century because dial-up connection (soft modem problems) is the common service because the other Internet connections (ADSL, Leased line...etc) are very expensive and not available in may areas.
So many ubuntu users in my country have to download needed packages manually which is a devil solution because of dependency hell of deb files (notice that AptOnCD not working on Windows while most Internet cafes using Windows and Canonical not provide DVDs or CDs for their repositories).

Fair enough.


It hasn't common multimedia codecs and hardware drivers:
many Linux distros has non-open source codecs and drivers by default (included in their CDs) while ubuntu not!


You'll find that most commercially-backed distributions don't have many codecs installed by default. This is because a lot of codecs use patented methods; we don't agree with software patenting, but until it is abolished in the biggest countries of the world then it must be abided by.

If Canonical decided to ship patented codecs in Ubuntu, then it would be open to massive lawsuits from the companies that own the patented methods used in the codecs.

If Canonical decided to ship non-OSS codecs in Ubuntu, it would face a backlash from Ubuntu users who don't want closed-source blobs in their distribution.

So, for your first point, fair enough. For your second point, if you want a Linux distribution with patented and closed-source codecs, then you should either look at a community distro such as Linux Mint, or a paid-for commercially-backed distro like Mandriva.

[Cheesemill]

You could use Keryx (http://keryxproject.org/) to download your files with a Windows machine and avoid dependancy hell.

[konqueror7]

1.) this does not apply to just ubuntu, majority of linux distros updates through the internet. but you may just want to use Keryx, is one of the solutions...

2.) this varies per distros, depending on each of their philosophies. some will have pure FOSS, some partially.

[HermanAB]

Hmm, the free distributions are all dependent on a good internet connection. Failing that, your best option is likely a not so free DVD based distribution such as Mandriva Powerpack. It costs a few dollars, but you will save a lot in online fees.

[ST3ALTHPSYCH0]

You could try Ultimate Edition. It's Ubuntu with most of the popular extras already installed plus loads of extra themes and stuff. I like it, but the requirements are a bit higher than vanilla Ubuntu.

[mhdbnoimi]

You could use Keryx to download your files with a Windows machine and avoid dependancy hell.
Actually I'm in translators team of Keryx and I've translated it to my native language so I know keryx well.

Keryx isn't stable and developing activity is too low so it's full of bugs (although I currently using it because I couldn't find other solution) I tried to fix some bugs but I faced massive challenge because I know nothing about Python (I'm C++/Qt developer).

[mhdbnoimi]

then it would be open to massive lawsuits from the companies that own the patented methods used in the codecs
I got it. patents problem is a huge challenge for open source community in general but as you know there are tons of softwares in windows use that codecs without facing any lawsuits!.

Another thing, most common multi-media formats are not open source (mp3, mp4 for example) so the decision of unusing that codecs like migrating from the modern city to isolated island (I couldn't find any shop selling Dido album in ogg file format)!!!

[m4tic]

ok, if linux is about dependencies, what does MS Windows work

[jerome1232]

...as you know there are tons of softwares in windows use that codecs without facing any lawsuits!.

Microsoft pays licensing fee's for the various codecs that ship with Windows. As does apple for their Macintosh OS.

[d3v1150m471c]

Ubuntu isn't anymore, if not much more, dependant on the internet than any other linux distro, macintosh, or microsoft operating system. All of them require updates via the internet and when this fails one must resort to physical copies of software, security patches, drivers, and updates.

[m4tic]

guys, can anyone answer my q, i'm not a programmer so please. why don't windows users have dependency issues like me in linux. As with the OP, i'm a victim of low internet speeds, infact i use my mobile phone to connect, and rely on internet cafes to get windows software which i can't with ubuntu as offline installs are nearly impossible. I used keryx but it's just useless most times. so how does windows handle its dependencies? can't linux programs include their dependencies in their offline installs? I've spent more money since starting with ubuntu in 08 than a retail price for windows 7 [fact] it's that frustrating. The message "pass it on" is pointless if you really look at it, freedom is a long way to go.

[mhdbnoimi]

Ubuntu isn't anymore, if not much more, dependant on the internet than any other linux distro, macintosh, or microsoft operating system. All of them require updates via the internet and when this fails one must resort to physical copies of software, security patches, drivers, and updates.

This is incorrect comparison because windows be default can deal with most common file formats (doc, mp3, drivers,... etc) where ubuntu can't because it has patents problem.

Another thing, most Windows softwares can run in standalone mode without need to download any files from the Internet while ubunu critically needs to download tons of dependencies for running a tiny software.... thus ubuntu depending on Internet while Windows not needs Internet a lot.

ubuntu can't deal with dial-up in smart way while windows can (Linux soft modem problem).

Important note:
Needing for Internet connection not means getting updates, I mean running softwares.

[m4tic]

This is incorrect comparison because windows be default can deal with most common file formats (doc, mp3, drivers,... etc) where ubuntu can't because it has patents problem.

Another thing, most Windows softwares can run in standalone mode without need to download any files from the Internet while ubunu critically needs to download tons of dependencies for running a tiny software.... thus ubuntu depending on Internet while Windows not needs Internet a lot.

ubuntu can't deal with dial-up in smart way while windows can (Linux soft modem problem).

Important note:
Needing for Internet connection not means getting updates, I mean running softwares.

ja, why can't they include required dependencies in linux programs

[lisati]

Two observations that seem to have been overlooked:

Windows does its updates by internet as well.
I've had Windows Media Player try to hook up to internet to download codecs. Not often, but it has happened!


Enough said!

Anyone up to the task of finding a solution for the OP's question?

[m4tic]

Two observations that seem to have been overlooked:

Windows does its updates by internet as well.
I've had Windows Media Player try to hook up to internet to download codecs. Not often, but it has happened!


Enough said!

Anyone up to the task of finding a solution for the OP's question?

ok codecs i get but what about app installation

[mhdbnoimi]

Two observations that seem to have been overlooked:

Windows does its updates by internet as well.



I said before:

Needing for Internet connection not means getting updates, I mean installing softwares.
So there is a long distance between windows needing for Internet and ubuntu. ubuntu can't install most softwares in offline mode.

[sliketymo]

Anyone up to the task of finding a solution for the OP's question?[/QUOTE]

The OP hasn't asked a question,he is apparently posting an observation.

[louieb]

many ubuntu users in my country have to download needed packages manually which is a devil solution because of dependency hell of deb filesand along the same line

Another thing, most Windows softwares can run in standalone mode without need to download any files from the Internet
I first heard the phrase "DLL hell" 15 maybe 20 years ago. Companies that make software for Widows had the habit of including any and all dlls there product might need. Often as not the dll was an older, buggier version.

If you have trouble getting online - dependency hell or dll hell - Your choice.


ubuntu can't deal with dial-up in smart way while windows can (Linux soft modem problem).These are also called Win modems for a reason. To cut cost they rely on the windows api to work. - Guess open source developers decided to work someing else. Besides Linux work great with modems that use the common AT interface.


The OP hasn't asked a question,he is apparently posting an observation. Good cafe stuff or maybe recurring discussion. I've reported the thread and asked it be moved.

[overdrank]

Moved to The Community Cafe

[blueshiftoverwatch]

ja, why can't they include required dependencies in linux programs
Is this why the DMG installation files that OSX uses are so much larger than the same installation files for Windows and Linux?

[NoaHall]

Is this why the DMG installation files that OSX uses are so much larger than the same installation files for Windows and Linux?

Yes.

[alexfish]

Ubuntu isn't anymore, if not much more, dependant on the internet than any other linux distro, macintosh, or microsoft operating system. All of them require updates via the internet and when this fails one must resort to physical copies of software, security patches, drivers, and updates.

have you looked at this thread

http://ohioloco.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1368648

[steveneddy]

http://shop.canonical.com/product_info.php?products_id=244

The dvd has most of the software from synaptic

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/3937514775?ie=UTF8&tag=ubuntusearch-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=3937514775

[nitehawk777]

OK,...this is an Ubuntu forum...
But just maybe another linux distro might fit your needs better. For instance, it's my understanding that the new Puppy Linux will recognize some of the internal "Winmodems". (I believe something like Lucent winmodem,..PcTel). And it's pretty small, but comes with Flash and codecs to play music and videos. There's other distros as well, that may help (Mandriva has been mentioned). Don't think it recognizes Winmodems, though. Personally,..I'd have a look at Puppy (and other distros like it).

Vector Linux is another distro that is small, but comes with all needed codecs for multimedia.

[elliotn]

I dont have internet but I fully run ubuntu, what I do is when I want to install something, eg gstreamer plugins I go to the internet cafe and use http://packages.ubuntu.com for the deb, I download all dependencies and go home and install it. Wox for me, then I aptoncd everything

[aysiu]

The patent issues really have to do with the Ubuntu philosophy and not so much with the cost of securing the licenses.

From the Ubuntu philosophy page:
Our work is driven by a philosophy on software freedom that aims to spread and bring the benefits of software to all parts of the world. At the core of the Ubuntu Philosophy are these core philosophical ideals:

1. Every computer user should have the freedom to download, run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.
2. Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice.
3. Every computer user should be given every opportunity to use software, even if they work under a disability.

Our philosophy is reflected in the software we produce and included in our distribution. As a result, the licensing terms of the software we distribute are measured against our philosophy, using the Ubuntu License Policy.

When you install Ubuntu almost all of the software installed already meets these ideals, and we are working to ensure that every single piece of software you need is available under a license that gives you those freedoms.

Currently, we make a specific exception for some "drivers" which are only available in binary form, without which many computers will not complete the Ubuntu installation. We place these in a restricted section of your system which makes them easy to remove if you do not need them. [My emphasis added]

The issue with software installation is a big one. That's why I posted this Brainstorm idea. If you like it, vote it up:
Idea #142: Optional add-on CDs (not advertised heavily, but still available) (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/142/)

In the meantime, you're absolutely right... for dial-up, I would suggest Debian, which already has about 14 CDs' worth of software to install.

[PryGuy]

Well, I don't understand what are we talking about here. You can download MP3 codecs and stuff over the Internet. There's AptOnCD. I create a postinstall CD for each Ubuntu build and have no problems.

[konqueror7]

i think its about why ubuntu has so much dependencies as compared to windows,,,as from a windows view, you see this updates as service packs, and by ubuntu/linux doesn't have one, windows just deliver it in 1 package,,,

also a major issue is, that linux/foss is more continually developed and releases updates as soon as possible, as compared to windows that you don't even have repos to download with. you have to personnally look and download for your up, update the necessary programs,,,

[m4tic]

i believe the majority of computer users rely on offline installs of which windows works well in that situation

[Cheesemill]

The dvd has most of the software from synaptic

No it doesn't.

The only difference between the Ubuntu CD and the Ubuntu DVD is the DVD contains all of the extra language packs.

[aysiu]

The only difference between the Ubuntu CD and the Ubuntu DVD is the DVD contains all of the extra language packs. That's not the only difference. For example, the DVD contains Edubuntu and KDE Games. More details here:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8655005#post8655005