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PartsMan
January 15th, 2010, 03:27 PM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.

Next my Comp II professor gives me blank look when I ask her what type of file she wants my papers in.
Looked at me like I was from another planet when I told her I would not be using Word.

Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.

ThomasWM
January 15th, 2010, 03:34 PM
No problem............use Openoffice.

JackRock
January 15th, 2010, 03:45 PM
Agreed. OpenOffice can write in a Word-Compatible *.doc format, and the latest version can read at least (not sure about writing) *.docx formats.

Danimoth
January 15th, 2010, 03:50 PM
Even when using office 2007, you should never send docx on your teacher or w/e because you can never be sure what the other person has. Also, no odt either. doc is the way to go.

Shippou
January 15th, 2010, 03:54 PM
doc is the way to go.

I do prefer PDFs. :p

It's just a sad thought that we were all brainwashed(?) and/or trained to just recognize one OS: Windows. It's just sad that, looking back, UNIX used to dominate the OS world. Or CP/M? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh well, I guess that those not using Windows is just part f an elite group. Whether it be Mac OSX or Amiga. Prepare to be looked upon like you came from some nonexistent place.

Duncan J Murray
January 15th, 2010, 04:14 PM
funny thought. I used to use Amiga's Workbench, and felt it was superior to the other desktop alternatives at the time, but I'm not sure I would have compared it to unix, which was powering the supercomputers at that time.

I think that microsoft needs to be forced to either:

1. By default be able to read and write odt files in Word, so that we may send our windows colleagues our files

Or:

2. Open the doc file format for all to see.

As word is the dominant word processor in the world, I don't think it is also fair that doc/docx is the dominant file format - it is a monopoly, and for fair competition, we need other word proccessors to compete.

My sister couldn't switch to ubuntu despite it's obvious superiority because her work requires her to read/write doc files. And no, openoffice is not completely compatible. In her work, small formatting errors end up looking very shabby.

Anyone want to ring the european fair-trade people?

D

d3v1150m471c
January 15th, 2010, 04:20 PM
You can use open office word processor or you can use abi word. Both of them should be on your default installation. (as far as I know). o.o.w.p., when saving, gives you the option of what format to save in. Just find out what format it needs to be and you're good to go.

sydbat
January 15th, 2010, 04:22 PM
Is Microsoft testing my willpower?Yes.


I do prefer PDFs. :p^This^

PartsMan
January 15th, 2010, 04:25 PM
It is just a lot to take in one month for a guy that has been running Linux for a year.
Open Office will get me through Comp fine but I still have an entire class on Microsoft plus the rogue computer at home.

They even gave us a printout for a $60 Microsoft Office special. I plan to ask my "computer" teacher if we will be touching on any other brands.

humphreybc
January 15th, 2010, 04:34 PM
Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.


Heh, don't worry. I'm studying Software Engineering and most of the "business" papers I do teach you and exam you on only Windows based programs. I have to do all my work in the Uni labs, not at home on my laptop. It's a pain but I deal with it. They're a complete joke and waste of time as well.

My Computer Science papers, however, usually choose programs that are available for all operating systems in their labs - when I rock up to class with Ubuntu and Eclipse or etc, they're like "cool man." :)

Grenage
January 15th, 2010, 04:36 PM
Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.

Damn those classes for teaching people using tools that almost everyone uses. Damn them to hell!

arubislander
January 15th, 2010, 04:40 PM
I think that microsoft needs to be forced to either:

1. By default be able to read and write odt files in Word, so that we may send our windows colleagues our files

Or:

2. Open the doc file format for all to see.



The latter is not bound to happen. The former has happened, kind of, although it is not default. Word 2007 can open odt files and does a passable job in rendering them to screen...

Grenage
January 15th, 2010, 04:44 PM
Actually, didn't MS release most of their document specs a good while ago? I cannot recall the details.

Marlonsm
January 15th, 2010, 04:46 PM
I think that microsoft needs to be forced to either:

1. By default be able to read and write odt files in Word, so that we may send our windows colleagues our files

Or:

2. Open the doc file format for all to see.


Some time ago MS Office 2007 got an update so it can use odt files, and I think MS Office 2010 will already come with it out of the box.

I have nothing against OpenOffice, I really want to like it, but at the moment, MS Office is the best office suit out there.

Anyway, MS making open standards work in their programs is great news, it shows that it knows we exist and what we can do.

arubislander
January 15th, 2010, 04:47 PM
That was prolly in the push to get their OpenXML (docx, xlsx, pptx, etc) format ISO approved. Their binary formats (doc, xls, ppt) are still closed I believe.

brookie
January 15th, 2010, 04:54 PM
Hi there,
I'm using Ubuntu and OO.o at home but we use MS Office 2007 at work. Office 2007 Word, Excel, and PowerPoint can now save as & open Open Office formats and can open those formats as well.
Just thought it was pretty cool that MS is working with OO.o formats. Cheers,
brook

arubislander
January 15th, 2010, 05:22 PM
Actually ODF and it's kin are not OO.o formats, but internationally accepted standard formats.

pwnst*r
January 15th, 2010, 05:38 PM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.

Yes, I'm sure that's Microsoft's fault.


Damn those classes for teaching people using tools that almost everyone uses. Damn them to hell!

^^This.

bukwirm
January 15th, 2010, 06:14 PM
Damn those classes for teaching people using tools that almost everyone uses. Damn them to hell!

Of course, teaching only the most-used software is a good way to make sure it stays the most-used software.

Grenage
January 15th, 2010, 06:21 PM
Yes, but from an academic standpoint you want students to learn something they are likely to use. If the course was named "niche software used by the 1% fringe" it would be a different matter.

pwnst*r
January 15th, 2010, 06:30 PM
Of course, teaching only the most-used software is a good way to make sure it stays the most-used software.

Businesses don't change their software because of what you were taught in school. Give me a break.

Cam42
January 15th, 2010, 06:37 PM
. By default be able to read and write odt files in Word, so that we may send our windows colleagues our files

Already has. As a service pack for office 2k7, and in 2k10 by default.
EDIT: I've been liking the GNOME office stuff (Abiword, GNUMERIC, etc). Now I just need a presentation tool that doesn't suck as bad as OOo Impress.

sandyd
January 15th, 2010, 07:24 PM
funny thought. I used to use Amiga's Workbench, and felt it was superior to the other desktop alternatives at the time, but I'm not sure I would have compared it to unix, which was powering the supercomputers at that time.

I think that microsoft needs to be forced to either:

1. By default be able to read and write odt files in Word, so that we may send our windows colleagues our files

Or:

2. Open the doc file format for all to see.

As word is the dominant word processor in the world, I don't think it is also fair that doc/docx is the dominant file format - it is a monopoly, and for fair competition, we need other word proccessors to compete.

My sister couldn't switch to ubuntu despite it's obvious superiority because her work requires her to read/write doc files. And no, openoffice is not completely compatible. In her work, small formatting errors end up looking very shabby.

Anyone want to ring the european fair-trade people?

D

office 2007 and windows 7 both have support for openoffice documents. the sp2 version of office 2007 i mean

PartsMan
January 15th, 2010, 07:43 PM
Yes, but from an academic standpoint you want students to learn something they are likely to use. If the course was named "niche software used by the 1% fringe" it would be a different matter.

They could have called it "Microsoft office 101" and I would have been ready for it.
We have not and will not talk about the computers at all.

PartsMan
January 15th, 2010, 07:46 PM
Yes, I'm sure that's Microsoft's fault.

Can you prove it wasn't them?:D

Actually it was Intel. There video chip is haveing fits.

Shpongle
January 15th, 2010, 08:55 PM
theres always google docs too

Groucho Marxist
January 16th, 2010, 03:23 AM
I do prefer PDFs. :p

It's just a sad thought that we were all brainwashed(?) and/or trained to just recognize one OS: Windows. It's just sad that, looking back, UNIX used to dominate the OS world. Or CP/M? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Oh well, I guess that those not using Windows is just part f an elite group. Whether it be Mac OSX or Amiga. Prepare to be looked upon like you came from some nonexistent place.

I received quite the opposite response twice this week. Both times the individuals were blown away by my Compiz cylinder and customized conky/splash-screen shenanigans.

To quote the gentleman sitting behind me today in my Electronic Media Promotions class, "Dude, that guy's computer is boss." :D

humphreybc
January 16th, 2010, 04:20 AM
I received quite the opposite response twice this week. Both times the individuals were blown away by my Compiz cylinder and customized conky/splash-screen shenanigans.

To quote the gentleman sitting behind me today in my Electronic Media Promotions class, "Dude, that guy's computer is boss." :D

You're the man now, dog.

pwnst*r
January 16th, 2010, 04:32 AM
lol, compiz cylinder. they'd get over it quickly as most of us did.

k64
January 16th, 2010, 05:23 AM
Agreed. OpenOffice can write in a Word-Compatible *.doc format, and the latest version can read at least (not sure about writing) *.docx formats.

OpenOffice.org 3.1 can save documents as "Microsoft Office Word 2007 (.docx)".

k64
January 16th, 2010, 05:34 AM
Google will (hopefully) change this. In the meantime, we just need to keep our fingers crossed as to whether Google really wants to promote open source or not as a viable alternative to proprietary software. Just wait and see: Google just might be Linux's hero. ('http://www.pcworld.com/article/182890/google_partners_with_canonical_for_chrome_os.html' )

Frak
January 16th, 2010, 05:39 AM
Businesses don't change their software because of what you were taught in school. Give me a break.
This.

nmccrina
January 16th, 2010, 06:45 AM
Businesses don't change their software because of what you were taught in school. Give me a break.

Well, kind of. They will only switch if there is a chance of cutting costs or something, and if nobody knows any of the alternatives, there are training costs, lost productivity, etc. and the chance of switching is zilch. At least, that's the result of my thought experiment. :P


Yes, but from an academic standpoint you want students to learn something they are likely to use. If the course was named "niche software used by the 1% fringe" it would be a different matter.

Not necessarily. I think a good school would teach things that get the concepts across and allow the students to be able to quickly adapt to different things. Of course, maybe in the kinds of classes where they teach word processors there is a different focus. :-|

oldsoundguy
January 16th, 2010, 06:55 AM
docx can no longer be included in Word as MS stole the code.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8451459.stm

Show THIS to your thick headed instructors!

Frak
January 16th, 2010, 06:57 AM
docx can no longer be included in Word as MS stole the code.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8451459.stm

Show THIS to your thick headed instructors!
They didn't steal any code. They broke a patent, a vague one at best.

arubislander
January 18th, 2010, 09:22 PM
They didn't steal any code. They broke a patent, a vague one at best.

What goes around comes around then...

Crunchy the Headcrab
January 18th, 2010, 09:32 PM
Damn those classes for teaching people using tools that almost everyone uses. Damn them to hell!
This. :D



Not necessarily. I think a good school would teach things that get the concepts across and allow the students to be able to quickly adapt to different things. Of course, maybe in the kinds of classes where they teach word processors there is a different focus. :-|

Most of the Office suite concepts can be applied to OOO or other products. For example, if you learn how to use styles, then you can use them in OOO too. The school can't be expected to teach you anything that you might possibly ever bump into. They can only teach you what you NEED to be proficient at.

AllRadioisDead
January 18th, 2010, 09:44 PM
Windows is just an OS, there's no reason for you to complain about using it in class.

PartsMan
January 18th, 2010, 09:53 PM
I understand why they are teaching MS Office. I doubt anyone on the board knows there is a choice.

I just felt like I had been ambushed.
"We'll lure him in with "computer" training."

I am spending $400 learning a program I refuse to buy.
Not to mention my time.

Oh well It will be an EASY A.
The first night was 37 pages on how to make a one paragraph letter.

Frak
January 19th, 2010, 02:38 AM
What goes around comes around then...
Trust me, Microsoft makes it look like they were a victim, but they were ready to buck the OpenXML format for ever. In reality, and in all seriousness, Microsoft really was trying to bring an open format to the table that everybody could use. To scold them for trying to help you is a bit much, don't ya think?

alexfish
January 19th, 2010, 07:50 AM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.

Next my Comp II professor gives me blank look when I ask her what type of file she wants my papers in.
Looked at me like I was from another planet when I told her I would not be using Word.

Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.

Actually I think this is a good idea ; You will be more Proficient in using a more logical solution to Office Applications



Ask the professor This : " How many years did it take you to be technically proficient with Office 2007"
I would be interested in the reply

arubislander
January 19th, 2010, 03:46 PM
In reality, and in all seriousness, Microsoft really was trying to bring an open format to the table that everybody could use. To scold them for trying to help you is a bit much, don't ya think?

Had that been the only reason, more power to them, but the fact is that they wanted their format accepted even though there already was one: ODF and its siblings. If the half of it is true of how they tried to get OpenXml accepted by the standardization committee, then shame on them.

Techsnap
January 19th, 2010, 03:56 PM
In reality, and in all seriousness, Microsoft really was trying to bring an open format to the table that everybody could use. To scold them for trying to help you is a bit much, don't ya think?

For most people here Microsoft can never do ANYTHING right, it's just fanboyism. If Microsoft were to quit the game and opensource everything, people would still complain.

RiceMonster
January 19th, 2010, 03:58 PM
For most people here Microsoft can never do ANYTHING right, it's just fanboyism. If Microsoft were to quit the game and opensource everything, people would still complain.

Well of course, that would just be a plot to destroy Linux.

llawwehttam
January 19th, 2010, 04:03 PM
Well of course, that would just be a plot to destroy Linux.

LOL:lolflag:

proxess
January 19th, 2010, 04:21 PM
The reason why Microsoft's OpenXML format wasn't accepted for ISO standards is because it wasn't really 'Open'. They didn't release all the specifications, keeping some of the goodies to themselves. Meaning "All these office suites use OUR docx, but OUR docx works better on OUR office suite."

AllenGG
January 19th, 2010, 05:03 PM
First off, that argument about "Microsoft's XXXX format not being accepted" etc, is bogus. It has been accepted by too many academic institutions, businesses and some governments.
Right now, go to "any" college (school of bus. etc) and you will see that "Office" is the demand choice, or no choice!
Next, when I'm responding to someone who asks me to "put that in 'DOC' format" I ask:
"which one?" There are at least SIX !

The valid question: Is MS testing my willpower ?
Answer: Yes !

Using bribes, intimidation, heavy marketing and large amounts of FUD !
8-)

tom66
January 19th, 2010, 05:27 PM
I'm sure Microsoft lost an antitrust case and they have been forced to add .odt support to Office.

arubislander
January 19th, 2010, 06:30 PM
I'm sure Microsoft lost an antitrust case and they have been forced to add .odt support to Office.

True, but that still doesn't mean that OpenXML wasn't also accepted as an ISO format, which IMHO was a bad move, not because I hate Microsoft (I don't), but because, as someone else has said, the format wasn't really open.

RabbitWho
January 19th, 2010, 07:53 PM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.

Next my Comp II professor gives me blank look when I ask her what type of file she wants my papers in.
Looked at me like I was from another planet when I told her I would not be using Word.

Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.


... why would you ever send anyone a file other than .doc? I think you were just finding a way to show off.


Next, when I'm responding to someone who asks me to "put that in 'DOC' format" I ask:
"which one?" There are at least SIX !
To which they answer; "what the frick does it matter, as long as it's .doc my Word processor will be able to open it, stop asking idiotic questions. "

When someone asks you if you want to go for some fresh air.. do you ask them what type? THere are millions of different types; but really all that matters is that it's fresh and you can breathe it!
If someone asks you if you smell gas, do you ask them what type of gas?
-CH4
CH4 has no smell
.... the smell that hte company put into it so that you'll recognise when your house is about to blow up
Yes, I knew that all along, but you really should be more specific when you talk, now lets make our way to the door which leads onto the street which this house is on and call the gas company who supply our gas so we can avoid being blown up by an explosion of this CH4 gas which has leaked just now that you smelt there with your nose on your face of the 1985 Caucasian format.

You must be really difficult to talk to if you need everyone to speak in exact terms and everything spelled out for you all the time.

PartsMan
January 19th, 2010, 09:07 PM
... why would you ever send anyone a file other than .doc? I think you were just finding a way to show off.


Because I didn't know.

I had not used MS Word in 10 years. Never used Word 2007.

audiomick
January 19th, 2010, 09:19 PM
It doesn't come up that often for me, but I always ask "you do use open office, don't you?"

AllRadioisDead
January 19th, 2010, 10:08 PM
You can not honestly be trying to make a case out of this. You're acting like, just because you use linux, everything should be tailored to your needs, including the software you use in class. What a joke.

Techsnap
January 19th, 2010, 10:19 PM
You're acting like, just because you use linux, everything should be tailored to your needs, including the software you use in class.

His opinion will change when he has to go to work.

PartsMan
January 20th, 2010, 04:33 AM
His opinion will change when he has to go to work.

I work now.
We use Open Office.

Some of you need to calm down a little. This was not meant to be a serious thread.
It's not like I honestly think MS is coming after me personally.

SirBismuth
January 20th, 2010, 06:44 AM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.

Next my Comp II professor gives me blank look when I ask her what type of file she wants my papers in.
Looked at me like I was from another planet when I told her I would not be using Word.

Now i go to my "Computer Concepts" class last night.
What a joke. This entirely Office 2007 class is required for my business degree.

Lol, it's a conspiracy from Redmond! :D

Seriously, though, I feel your pain. I have to do a module that uses Office 2007, for my degree. As I said in another thread, I installed it with XP in VirtualBox. Once I am done with this module, will probably either ignore the XP installation, or can it entirely, as I don't need it otherwise.

I use OpenOffice at work as well, and have had no issues reading .docx files, have also saved them without any issues that I am aware of (as in none reported to me by the Office users that I send them to). Same with Excel files, think it's .xlsx these days.

B

phrostbyte
January 20th, 2010, 06:55 AM
That was prolly in the push to get their OpenXML (docx, xlsx, pptx, etc) format ISO approved. Their binary formats (doc, xls, ppt) are still closed I believe.

No, not anymore. Thank the EU.

But I swear I remember writing this exact same post like a year ago, replying to a very similarly (or exactly) worded post. In fact this entire thread seems strangely familiar.

phrostbyte
January 20th, 2010, 06:58 AM
What kind of degree makes you learn how to use a word processor as a course? Seems like something that should not belong in a University, since it's vocational.

Either way, that sucks. If I were you, I'd talk to the professor and try to to skip the class. Some schools will allow you to take different courses if you can demonstrate the you already know the material of a required course.

x33a
January 20th, 2010, 08:17 AM
But I swear I remember writing this exact same post like a year ago, replying to a very similarly (or exactly) worded post. In fact this entire thread seems strangely familiar.

A Glitch? DejaVu... Matrix. ;)

Warpnow
January 20th, 2010, 08:23 AM
What kind of degree makes you learn how to use a word processor as a course? Seems like something that should not belong in a University, since it's vocational.


Almost all schools have a class like this, usually called "Introduction to Computer" or "MicroComputer Applications", however, its usually an elective for those who need it.

murderslastcrow
January 20th, 2010, 08:56 AM
Word has basic ODF compatibility (up to version 1.1 or something), so they're working on it, since they're kinda' forced too. And this day and age they can't very easily get away with the embrace, expand, extinguish deal. They've been the ones playing the game of catch up for several years now, and as anyone I've talked to about the subject will comment, they're failing.

airtonix
January 20th, 2010, 11:36 AM
I received quite the opposite response twice this week. Both times the individuals were blown away by my Compiz cylinder and customized conky/splash-screen shenanigans.

To quote the gentleman sitting behind me today in my Electronic Media Promotions class, "Dude, that guy's computer is boss." :D

And yet no one talks about the incredibly useful window resizing and moving tricks you can do with all X window managers.

alt+left-mouse-click-anywhere-on-a-window + drag = move window
alt+right-mouse-click-anywhere-on-a-window + drag = resize window

Also the extra window utility plugins compiz has are very useful

PartsMan
January 20th, 2010, 03:20 PM
What kind of degree makes you learn how to use a word processor as a course? Seems like something that should not belong in a University, since it's vocational.

Either way, that sucks. If I were you, I'd talk to the professor and try to to skip the class. Some schools will allow you to take different courses if you can demonstrate the you already know the material of a required course.

They call it computer concepts and have everybody take it. I am sure my business degree requires it. I was thinking it was more of a Vo-tech type class myself.

whiskeylover
January 20th, 2010, 03:35 PM
Because I didn't know.

I had not used MS Word in 10 years. Never used Word 2007.

So let me see if I got this right.

You want the teacher to use the format of your choice, when the rest of the class wants to use the MS .doc format?

forrestcupp
January 20th, 2010, 03:59 PM
First my desktop suddenly refuses to run any Ubuntu. Only XP.It's Microsoft's fault that Linux doesn't support your hardware? I didn't know that MS was a major contributor to the development of the Linux kernel and Linux drivers. ;)


Damn those classes for teaching people using tools that almost everyone uses. Damn them to hell!Lol. +1

Why would any professor have his students use something that only a very small minority uses. Everyone uses Windows and MS Office. MS Office defaults to its own formats, and you have to go out of your way to make it save in odt or something else. People just don't care enough. So it's only logical that you would be required to submit work in the format that is widely used.


What kind of degree makes you learn how to use a word processor as a course? Seems like something that should not belong in a University, since it's vocational.

MS Office != MS Word

A course on Office is much, much more than just Word, and there are a lot of professions that rely heavily on it. Word is just a very small part of it, as well as Power Point. The advanced stuff that businesses are looking for is in proficiency with Excel spreadsheets and Access databases. Access experience is huge in the business world, and that is one thing that OpenOffice can't do.

The reason that Office experience is important is because that's what most companies use. Why would they teach OpenOffice or something only for you to have to relearn the whole interface when you get a job? MS Office is the universal office suite. It's like how a lot of the world learns the English language even though they prefer to speak their own native language most of the time.

PartsMan
January 20th, 2010, 04:35 PM
So let me see if I got this right.

You want the teacher to use the format of your choice, when the rest of the class wants to use the MS .doc format?

Yes. That is why I asked HER what SHE wanted me to use.:rolleyes:

I don't expect the world to change for me,
but I can still get irked by it and post about it on a forum of people who might agree with me.

Frak
January 20th, 2010, 06:02 PM
Yes. That is why I asked HER what SHE wanted me to use.:rolleyes:

I don't expect the world to change for me,
but I can still get irked by it and post about it on a forum of people who might agree with me.
What college do you go to? OCU, ORU, OKCU, OU, OSU? Or are you going to, say, Kiamichi Tech?

PartsMan
January 20th, 2010, 06:22 PM
What college do you go to? OCU, ORU, OKCU, OU, OSU? Or are you going to, say, Kiamichi Tech?

NOC It's a junior college up in Enid.

We like to call it No Other Choice.

Frak
January 20th, 2010, 06:24 PM
NOC It's a junior college up in Enid.

We like to call it No Other Choice.
Ah, here in Ada we have ECU, as in:

Why is COBOL still being taught in CS?

AllenGG
January 20th, 2010, 07:11 PM
Ah! right on PartsMan!
When I said which version of MS Word one person wrote "just use .doc !!"
Well my learned friend, all versions of MS DOC are NOT interchangeable.. At times you may have to tell people (clients, friends etc) that they will have to use OpenOffice to figure out what was sent or written.
Microsoft has no conscience, get it?
So Partsman you are correct! maybe you could have added : "which version"
good forum, most people here "get it".
Allen

Frak
January 20th, 2010, 07:16 PM
Ah! right on PartsMan!
When I said which version of MS Word one person wrote "just use .doc !!"
Well my learned friend, all versions of MS DOC are NOT interchangeable.. At times you may have to tell people (clients, friends etc) that they will have to use OpenOffice to figure out what was sent or written.
Microsoft has no conscience, get it?
So Partsman you are correct! maybe you could have added : "which version"
good forum, most people here "get it".
Allen
.doc is pretty interchangable between versions. You just need to grab the compatability packs from Microsoft.

weichimaster
January 20th, 2010, 07:28 PM
I generally use Latex these days to go directly to Pdf.

My colleagues are used to Word, of course, so my solution may not be sustainable.