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bfc
January 13th, 2010, 12:18 AM
http://www.techcrunch.com/2010/01/12/google-china-attacks/

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

pwnst*r
January 13th, 2010, 12:24 AM
good.

andymorton
January 13th, 2010, 12:27 AM
According to the Guardian newspaper they're going to end their policy of censorship in China.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jan/12/google-china-ends-censorship

andy

Johnsie
January 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM
about time... China doesn't really need google though, it's a huge country with plenty of other IT resources.

xuCGC002
January 13th, 2010, 12:51 AM
I don't like how China is being run right now.

AllRadioisDead
January 13th, 2010, 01:17 AM
I don't like how China is being run right now.
Good thing you're not in China right now then.

doas777
January 13th, 2010, 01:22 AM
see, this is why eric schmit is wrong about privacy. if google didn't keep the data, it wouldn't be subject to breach.
ceasing censorship in china however, does knock them down on peg on the latter to evil though. good on em.

adeypoop
January 13th, 2010, 01:28 AM
illustrates the danger having so much data accumulated in one place (and why I have concerns about privacy with google). Even if google does not do evil (which is not a given), other organizations do do evil.

However, first time I've seen google in a positive light for a while now their actions over this security breach are commendable.

judge jankum
January 13th, 2010, 01:37 AM
Any site collecting user data online is unsafe IMHO..
https://ssl.scroogle.org/ I started using this search after another member posted it in another thread.

handy
January 13th, 2010, 01:42 AM
Well done Google. =D>

wojox
January 13th, 2010, 01:57 AM
That is if China doesn't shut down Google first.

Hackers: the China Syndrome (http://www.popsci.com/scitech/article/2009-04/hackers-china-syndrome)
For years, the U.S. intelligence community worried that China’s government was attacking our cyber-infrastructure. Now one man has discovered it’s worse: It’s hundreds of thousands of everyday civilians. And they’ve only just begun.

Kdar
January 13th, 2010, 01:57 AM
So what?

China have their own networks and searching sites...... youku, tudou, baidu

Plus, I think they are well developed, on the level of google or youtube...etc

Even I use them from time to time.

hoppipolla
January 13th, 2010, 03:00 AM
I love Google ^_^

I also find the Chinese government simply shocking... it's sad how many governments there are in the world that are that controlling or more so :(

Arbiter
January 13th, 2010, 03:04 AM
I'm not a big fan of the Chinese government and their tactics, which are nothing short of iron-fisted brutality. Good for Google not supporting an authoritarian dictatorship.

MasterNetra
January 13th, 2010, 03:06 AM
I love Google ^_^

I also find the Chinese government simply shocking... it's sad how many governments there are in the world that are that controlling or more so :(

I don't find this shocking. China's been doing this for decades if not longer and sadly the problem of controlling governments stretches back to early civilizations. Additionally the US government is falling...heck probably already has fallen into this. Granted not yet as bad as china.

And we will most likely always have this problem for as long as there are governments with corruptible controllers at their helm.

JDShu
January 13th, 2010, 03:26 AM
Haha careful guys.

I was reading about brinkmanship (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brinkmanship) on the train today (game theory is fascinating stuff), and this might be a similar situation. Google would certainly lose from pulling out of China... and I would argue that China does as well.

Google made the first move, lets see how China responds.

hoppipolla
January 13th, 2010, 03:33 AM
I don't find this shocking. China's been doing this for decades if not longer and sadly the problem of controlling governments stretches back to early civilizations. Additionally the US government is falling...heck probably already has fallen into this. Granted not yet as bad as china.

And we will most likely always have this problem for as long as there are governments with corruptible controllers at their helm.

still doesn't stop it from being shocking. heh :)

handy
January 13th, 2010, 05:44 AM
Anyone would think that the U.S. security agencies don't spy (using whatever method is most appropriate/or at hand) on China, or any other country, or its own people for that matter!

Matt_Johnson
January 13th, 2010, 05:45 AM
:o good that way google cant take over the world.

lisati
January 13th, 2010, 05:49 AM
So what?

China have their own networks and searching sites...... youku, tudou, baidu

Plus, I think they are well developed, on the level of google or youtube...etc

Even I use them from time to time.

Yup, baidu has been past my home page a few times.

JDShu
January 13th, 2010, 06:00 AM
Is baidu that popular among non-chinese?

lisati
January 13th, 2010, 06:03 AM
Is baidu that popular among non-chinese?
Don't know. When I spotted a handful of references in my server's logs, I looked it up and had to have the page translated.....

Kdar
January 13th, 2010, 06:15 AM
When I posted my post, I meant the use of those sites by Chinese people. Why would Google or Youtube be important to them when they have sites like that?

And of course it is used a lot by Chinese people. and maybe they use it more than google.

I sometimes used when I had to look something up in Chinese. And Youku I used to watch some movies.

ronniestamps
January 13th, 2010, 06:27 AM
What's intriguing to me is how this might be a game changer. I mean, we basically have 2 super powers going head to head now. The intriguing part is that one is a corporation and the other a country. Just imagine the amendments to the Geneva Convention over the next 10 years.

JDShu
January 13th, 2010, 06:35 AM
What's intriguing to me is how this might be a game changer. I mean, we basically have 2 super powers going head to head now. The intriguing part is that one is a corporation and the other a country. Just imagine the amendments to the Geneva Convention over the next 10 years.

Agreed its very interesting. My thoughts: what could would be the results of a fallout? China's isolation in the virtual world? Google's loss of a huge market?

What is each side trying to gain? Google scrubs their "evil" that tarnishes their motto? China gains a faster hold over the country?

Very intriguing.

Frak
January 13th, 2010, 06:36 AM
good.
This.

Kdar
January 13th, 2010, 06:36 AM
Have you hear of this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Cooperation_Organisation
Shaghai Cooperation Organisation

If that would work, maybe all power will shift there. Who knows.

The_Pirate_King
January 13th, 2010, 07:11 AM
Indeed it will. I'm glad Google has finally stopped supporting China's censorship. I like a lot of things about Google but that was one of the few that didn't sit well with me. Now I can have a clear Google-concious.

The_Pirate_King
January 13th, 2010, 07:16 AM
What's intriguing to me is how this might be a game changer. I mean, we basically have 2 super powers going head to head now. The intriguing part is that one is a corporation and the other a country. Just imagine the amendments to the Geneva Convention over the next 10 years.
I see this is an omen of a future clash between China and the United States. Here we have a corporation based in the US, an established superpower, clashing with the Chinese government, an emerging superpower... scary stuff if you think about it.

The_Pirate_King
January 13th, 2010, 07:30 AM
When I posted my post, I meant the use of those sites by Chinese people. Why would Google or Youtube be important to them when they have sites like that?

And of course it is used a lot by Chinese people. and maybe they use it more than google.

I sometimes used when I had to look something up in Chinese. And Youku I used to watch some movies.
In my past experience, Youku has been unbearably slow. Probably because it's on the other side of the earth, but still...

Google is likely the most powerful search engine on the web. Not only that, but Google offers an array of extremely useful, unrivalled applications and services. They're on the cutting edge of web technology.
They control a huge portion of the internet ad market. No advertisements means no profit for a website, and no profit means a less developed web environment for China.

The internet is the most powerful media for free speech ever created, even when it is censored. And Google has become a hugely important part of the internet. Many companies, in china and around the world, have become dependent on Google's applications and resources as part of their business. Take that away from China, and they'll feel it... Google is a huge resource and brings in a lot of business.

handy
January 13th, 2010, 08:30 AM
China have such a high population that they can internally do without Google anyway. They do need to export though.

China dominated COP15.

China's prime customer (80% of sales) is the U.S., China has been pouring funds into the U.S. to support its economy, as they know that if the U.S. economy truly crashes, so does their own.

Many are already calling this the century of China.

etnlIcarus
January 13th, 2010, 10:10 AM
I don't like how China is being run right now.

Whereas from 1950, until 20 minutes ago, China's gov't was just super.


Anyway, should Google be forced offline in China, there'll be a pretty limited 'care factor' for all involved. Google isn't ubiquitous in China, while circumventing The Great Firewall of China to access Google isn't prohibitively difficult. At best, this will simply set a more optimistic precedent for foreign [IT] companies dealing with the party.

pwnst*r
January 13th, 2010, 12:58 PM
Whereas from 1950, until 20 minutes ago, China's gov't was just super.




lol

Eisenwinter
January 13th, 2010, 02:22 PM
I also find the Chinese government simply shocking... it's sad how many governments there are in the world that are that controlling or more so :(
The United States government is also one of these.

purgatori
January 13th, 2010, 02:29 PM
good.


+100000000000


The United States government is also one of these.

If you think that people's freedom are as severely curtailed in the United States as they are in China, then you do not know how to make comparisons. I suppose that South Korea is just as oppressive as the North in your mind as well?

RabbitWho
January 13th, 2010, 02:54 PM
Youtube is baned in turkey, but if you go on youtube and search Turkish words you'll see plenty of Turkish people are uploading videos of their cats just like the rest of us.. maybe they're also talking politics, I don't know, I don't speak Turkish.
I mention this because maybe if google stops censoring itself and the Chinese government ban it then people will find similar ways around it. But I guess in Turkey if you break that law you know what will happen to you, nice or not so nice, apparently in China there are still people who "just disappear"

http://www.euronews.net/2010/01/13/google-threatens-to-quit-china-over-censorship/

Marisa H
January 13th, 2010, 02:59 PM
... If google didn't keep the data, it wouldn't be subject to breach.
...

+1

fatcrab
January 13th, 2010, 03:01 PM
The United States government is also one of these.
Why does it always come down to U.S.A. bashing?Do you all hate us that much?

Eisenwinter
January 13th, 2010, 03:11 PM
Why does it always come down to U.S.A. bashing?Do you all hate us that much?
I don't hate Americans in general, I just find the US government throws its power all over the world (for example, in countries like Iraq and Israel).

etnlIcarus
January 13th, 2010, 03:45 PM
I don't hate Americans in general, I just find the US government throws its power all over the world (for example, in countries like Iraq and Israel).
Democratic republic w/ inconsistent foreign policy track record =/= one-party, quasi-communist police state with an atrocious domestic human rights history. You're attempting to conflate rather disparate subjects.

And if you're attempting to paint the US' foreign policy in a bad light, you didn't do a very good job picking your examples. Nothing makes a point like ambiguity. :/

Eisenwinter
January 13th, 2010, 06:47 PM
Democratic republic w/ inconsistent foreign policy track record =/= one-party, quasi-communist police state with an atrocious domestic human rights history. You're attempting to conflate rather disparate subjects.

And if you're attempting to paint the US' foreign policy in a bad light, you didn't do a very good job picking your examples. Nothing makes a point like ambiguity. :/
I wasn't trying to do anything, I'm just stating my point as a citizen of Israel.

Whenever the United States passes some law, Israel soon follows it, in an almost identical law being passed.

As far as Iraq goes, the US just invaded there with no reason to back up the invasion.

Fact is, the US troops simply sat in the desert in Iraq for at least a few months before any real operation began.

KiwiNZ
January 13th, 2010, 07:42 PM
Closed due to political nature of discussion