Mac? What am I missing?

[Kernel Sanders]

As some of you know, I am interested in learning all about various types of technology, operating systems etc...

So I am currently pretty much a Windows Expert, a Linux noob, but I have never even touched a Mac in my life! Not through some kind of protest you understand, I just havent had the opportunity! :D

So I was wondering..... what am I missing out on? Should I do some research on macs and start using one? Are they fun? Interesting to explore/learn how to use/simpler than linux/windows? Are they as stable as is portrayed? Well... you get the idea! :)

I think I start a poll so we can get some kind of "official result" on what you guys think? *Runs off to start a poll* :p

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

- John \\:D/

EDIT: Based on...... Stability, Ease Of Use, and Software Availability (Not necessarily games..... and Macs should be considered to have good software ability if they have equivilent versions of popular software..... eg, Linux has Gimp which is a good Photoshop equivilent) which would *YOU* consider to be the best? Mac or Windows?

Thanks again!

- John \\:D/

[mstlyevil]

Other

[nemik]

other for me too, but if forced to choose between windows or mac, i would choose mac.

[majikstreet]

linux.

[Kernel Sanders]

So i'm looking for your opinions on which is best out of a Mac and Windows, based on a certain set of criteria, and you choose Other or Linux?

LOL! \\:D/

Obviously Linux rules (as i'm slowly finding out! :) ) But for the purpose of this thread, i'm looking for information on MACS!!! \\:D/ Specifically compared with windows.

Please give me some feedback! I would be really interested to know what you all think! :cry:

[engla]

I've never used windows so I can't really tell.

I don't think you want to hear this but to cut it hard, OS X really is much more stable than Ubuntu, at least the way I use it. I don't use Linux because it's stable, I use it to learn, because there is more software for it, and the philosophy of being able to take any tool and modify it "so it fits you" really appeals and works for me.

[xequence]

I've never used windows so I can't really tell.

Wow, thats rare =O


OS X really is much more stable than Ubuntu

How can you tell? Does ubuntu accually crash for you?

[briancurtin]

none

are you trying to do some sort of elementary research or something?

[Sirin]

I've never used windows so I can't really tell.

You're not missing anything. ;)

[rfruth]

In this order Linux, Mac, other and Windows. :)

[mstlyevil]

I said other because it is subjective to say which operating system is better. OSX does not have hardware issues because both the OS and the hardware are proprietary. Windows has a lot more popular software available because of it's market dominance. Both are the same on stability since they both have different issues that affect stability. And ease of use is based more on a particular persons perspective of what they define as ease of use. So for these reasons I say it is a toss up and will boil down to a particular users own preferences and perspective.

[engla]

How can you tell? Does ubuntu accually crash for you?
Well -- it could be that I can tweak more things in Ubuntu, and therefore I do that. I've been compiling my own kernel and built Xorg from CVS like that (for fun and profit), and replaced sysvinit with initng -- you can't do the corresponding thing in OS X.

But also, I find that gnome has some fits sometimes that can only be restored by logging in and out, restarting gdm and sometimes I can't even get that to work and have to restart. (Examples: Playing sound while suspending makes sound not work and stuff when you resume. Sometimes gdm unexpectedly refuses to run more than one session at a time, and restart of gdm does not resolve that)

In my long time of learning and using OSX I've only hit one, single OS/desktop environment bug that forces you to restart and it's a pretty hard-to find one involving drag&drops of lots of files between applications *something like that* -- before I installed ubuntu, I counted on that I had perhaps started my computer 20-40 times in the year I used OSX, I mostly let it run for months straight.

Now I reboot it every 3rd day (yah it's a laptop).

[drizek]

other- save your money, get a new pc instead of a new mac and put linux on it.

[endersshadow]

C. Depenzon.

Depenzon what you're using it for. Are you using it for photo editing and or video editing? Are you using it for office applications? Are you using it for surfing the web and email?

It's important to remember that each OS has its different strengths and weaknesses, and none is, in total, better than another. I use Ubuntu because it's best for my needs: Web development, Perl development, internet, email, basic office functions, etc...stuff that I find easier and more stable on Ubuntu than anything else. OS choice comes down to what you're looking for in an OS. Features are great, but if they do nothing for you, all you've got is a bloated heap of software. What OS benefits you the most? There have been a plethora of studies on stability, vunerability, and user friendliness between Linux, Windows, and Mac--and all of them have turned vastly different results. The benefits of an OS are subjective, features are objective. What matters to an end user are benefits, not features. Features create benefits, but they don't define them. It's an important distinction to make, and you've failed to make that distinction.

In essence, it's a baseless question that means absolutely nothing and you won't get any piece of valuable information out of this poll without expressing what you're looking for in an OS. Apple stores let you play around with computers: Go try it out.

[dtfinch]

I've never been a Mac fan. I could go on for a while explaining why, but you've all heard the arguments.

Found this video a couple days ago:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9034630437634307054

[mstlyevil]

I've never been a Mac fan. I could go on for a while explaining why, but you've all heard the arguments.

Found this video a couple days ago:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9034630437634307054

ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[glug101]

I mostly agree with the Orson Scott Card fan (endersshadow? So that would make you Bean, right?), for the most part it comes down to the best tool for the job.

Now that I've said that, the best tool for my jobs seems to be almost always be linux, with mac osx in a close second. I love the way OSX works, and usually train my linux desktop to work in a similar manner. (Warning, flame bait) All three OS's that are talked about here seem to be about the same as far as stbility in my experience, with the exception of some Windows quirks that I deal with on a daily basis. (I support windows apps at the helpdesk for a fortune 500 company. We have a HUGE MS Office addiction.)

If I had to pick the most important difference for me between OSX (who uses <OS9 anymore?) and Linux, I would have to say the customization. I can make a linux machine look and act anyway that I please, and that makes a huge difference in productivity and user experience for someone that stares at a screen for at least 8 hours a day.

[Arktis]

Well, the way I see it, since the criterea are Stability, Ease of Use, and Software Availibility, I think Windows definately wins. Purely because there is tons more good software availible for it though, and not based on the other two criterea where it's basicly a toss-up.

Now if you had included Security as I believe you should have, OSX wins.

[DigitalDuality]

OS X simply does NOT win security by any means what so ever. Not to mention the 3 huge vulnerabilities found this month.. lets take a look at how many vulnerabilities they've patched:

From Secuna:
Secunia OS Vulnerabities
Apple Macintosh OS X: 65 Secunia Advisories (5% unpatched)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional: 130 Secunia Advisories (21% unpatched)

drum roll:
Ubuntu Linux 4.10: 157 Secunia Advisories (0% unpatched)
Ubuntu Linux 5.04: 122 Secunia Advisories (0% unpatched)
Ubuntu Linux 5.10: 25 Secunia Advisories (0% unpatched)

http://secunia.com/

Similar vulnerability results are found in favor of Firefox and OpenOffice.

Anyways. I got a Mac Mini.. and it's a dust collector at the moment. Since i've dove head first into Linux i haven't really messed with it. But this is my opinion on the matter.

OS X is an incredibly stable OS. And the eye candy is very nice. I do not like Open Office (or NeoOffice) through OS X. I find from a user standpoint.. the OS is boring after a while. You get used to the eye candy and the novelty wears off. There's really not much to change around either AFAIK. I think it's top notch programing though and has a very nice feel to it.

I also thinks OS X wins out over XP when it comes to user friendliness by far. Installing apps is easier in OS X than in windows. Software availability? There's a ton for Macs, but nothing touches what windows brings to the table in that realm.

Even though Darwin is OSS, i actually felt i had more freedom with MS with the ability to change things. That could've been my own familiarity with Win over Mac, but that's what it felt like. Slick looking, stable, secure, but after a while..boring.

[Arktis]

OS X simply does NOT win security by any means what so ever. Not to mention the 3 huge vulnerabilities found this month.. lets take a look at how many vulnerabilities they've patched:

From Secuna:
Secunia OS Vulnerabities
Apple Macintosh OS X: 65 Secunia Advisories (5% unpatched)
Microsoft Windows XP Professional: 130 Secunia Advisories (21% unpatched)
http://secunia.com/

See, but OSX DOES win by your measurement. 65 vs 130 and 5% vs 21% looks well in favor of OSX to me. :-k

[C J Pro]

First off, there is now safe place to ask whether you should use Mac or Windows. I'd say mac for the reasons listed, but most forums will give you a biased answer. Windows users will always say Windows, Mac users will always say Mac, and Linux users will say "screw mac, get a PC and install Linux on it" usually. I of course use all three system (well, not my mac that much...it's only running a 500 MHz so that may be why...)

[DigitalDuality]

See, but OSX DOES win by your measurement. 65 vs 130 and 5% vs 21% looks well in favor of OSX to me. :-k
A patched vulnerability is good as making it disappear IMO. (taking that the user does their updates). Which Ubuntu has 0% unpatched. (as most OSS distros do).

It's been proven that OSS software recieves patches more frequently too and that they don't rely heavily on a update schedule (like Mac and Windows who release updates every first tuesday of every month..)

[midwinter]

A patched vulnerability is good as making it disappear IMO. (taking that the user does their updates). Which Ubuntu has 0% unpatched. (as most OSS distros do).

It's been proven that OSS software recieves patches more frequently too and that they don't rely heavily on a update schedule (like Mac and Windows who release updates every first tuesday of every month..)

Um, yeah but the poll and the idea of the thread was comparing Win vs Mac.

[drizek]

See, but OSX DOES win by your measurement. 65 vs 130 and 5% vs 21% looks well in favor of OSX to me. :-k

but what about adept-notifier and hte gnome equivelant? security updates are delivered instantly to k/ubuntu users whearas with osx/windows they have to wait till whatever day ms/apple decide to ship them. And then you have to assume that people actually go through with it and update their systems, which they probably wont.

[Arktis]

but what about adept-notifier and hte gnome equivelant? security updates are delivered instantly to k/ubuntu users whearas with osx/windows they have to wait till whatever day ms/apple decide to ship them. And then you have to assume that people actually go through with it and update their systems, which they probably wont.
As midwinter said, we are talking mac vs windows here. Please see the poll and ENTIRE first post.

[Qrk]

Windows

Why? Is it that much better? Nope.

But Mac and Linux have many of the same strengths and weaknesses. They are stable, have great desktops and are secure. Yes both have more limited availablity of software and devices supported; for both its a windows world out there.

So whats the point of running two systems with similar advantages and disadvantages? Both look pretty?

Windows on the other hand, has the advantage that it is a windows world. You can use Linux most of the time to cover for Window's shortcomings, but when you really need Windows, chances are a Mac won't do.

So having both Mac and Linux is the best of one very good world. Having Linux and Windows is the best of both worlds.

[zAo]

Linux as OS.
Windows's applications.
Mac OSX the best mix.

[poofyhairguy]

I have had stability issues with OSX in the past. Part of that might be due to the fact that OSX's Firefox sucks...but hey- thats a BIG deal to me.

The one advantage OSX has over Linux is that its easier to get hardware that works well with it. I have been wanted to get an Ubuntu laptop for over a month now and I can't find a single one in which everything "just works" out of the box. With a Mac you buy an iBook and the problem is solved!

[DigitalDuality]

^
Camino always worked great for me (except playing web imbedded WMV files.) ... and Firefox seems to work alot better on the Mac since 1.5.

[IYY]

I'd much rather use a Mac than a Windows PC. OS X is really just a pretty interface for Darwin, which is a very solid Unix. You can use the terminal and command line in the exact same way as you would in Linux, and can understand your system a lot better than in Windows.

Of course, there are also disadvantages: mainly the face that you are often stuck with Apple hardware (it's good hardware, but choice is nice), and can't customize the GUI to your liking (this bothers me most of all).

[commodore]

If you like to have fun then Linux is THE way to go, but fortunately you are allready using Linux. IMO BSD comes second. But from Mac and Windows, Mac totally crushes Windows. Mac has loads of better stuff.

[Taino]

Based on...... Stability, Ease Of Use, and Software Availability (Not necessarily games..... and Macs should be considered to have good software ability if they have equivilent versions of popular software..... eg, Linux has Gimp which is a good Photoshop equivilent) which would *YOU* consider to be the best? Mac or Windows?

Thanks again!


*John*? your secretly steve jobs arent you? we're onto you. :mrgreen:

I'd take a Mac over Windows btw :) ive used both and like Mac more.

[Sirin]

Windows vs OS X Tiger:

Software Availibility: Windows
Security: Mac OS X
Look and Feel: Mac OS X (by far) :cool:
"It just works": Mac OS X (Apple Hardware, Apple software, nuff said.)

[jakemikey]

I'm traditionally a Mac user, but am slowly outgrowing it as I learn more about Linux and computers in general. However, I will say that when it comes to content creation, the Mac is KING. The Mac is the only platform that makes content creation truly fun. I use iMovie, iDVD, iPhoto, GarageBand, Final Cut Pro, DVD Studio Pro, Motion, Keynote, and Pages. They are all not only intuitive but powerful and genuinely fun to use.

Windows may have more piles of software available for it, but none of it comes close to the quality of the software available for the Mac.

Stability: depends on laptop vs desktop. My Ubuntu desktop is pretty solid, but my Ubuntu laptop can be quite flakey. OS X is definitely more stable than Linux, in my experience.

So as long as Linux is lacking in the "fun content creation app" area (which it probably will for at least another decade), and for my wife's sake, there will be at least one Mac in the house for the foreseeable future.

PS - this reminds me, someone really needs to get an iLife clone initiative off the ground...I mean Linux now has viable office software, email, browsers, indexed searching etc. But it really needs an *integrated* content management/creation suite. I mean, for Linux there are about 891 different music players, 2 remotely decent NLE's (I'm waiting for Diva to get off the ground), 1 decent yet klunky photo manager, no approachable equivalent to GarageBand, and no good iDVD clone...we NEED these on Linux.

[drizek]

I have had stability issues with OSX in the past. Part of that might be due to the fact that OSX's Firefox sucks...but hey- thats a BIG deal to me.

The one advantage OSX has over Linux is that its easier to get hardware that works well with it. I have been wanted to get an Ubuntu laptop for over a month now and I can't find a single one in which everything "just works" out of the box. With a Mac you buy an iBook and the problem is solved!


Get a dell, the only thing that doesnt work with my 9300 in dapper is the light for the wifi(the wifi itself works fine though). Everything else works out of the box in dapper, including hte sd card reader.

[poofyhairguy]

Get a dell, the only thing that doesnt work with my 9300 in dapper is the light for the wifi(the wifi itself works fine though). Everything else works out of the box in dapper, including hte sd card reader.

Even suspend to RAM?

[aysiu]

I have been wanted to get an Ubuntu laptop for over a month now and I can't find a single one in which everything "just works" out of the box. Try this:
http://www.system76.com

[GreyFox503]

Since the poll question seems pretty open ended, I took it to mean: "If you were stranded on a desert island and you could only run one computer, which would you take?"

I didn't vote, actually. Either way I couldn't tell, because I've never spent more than 5 minutes with a modern Macintosh.

[drizek]

Even suspend to RAM?

im not sure about suspends...

to ram doesnt work in either windows or linux because instead of waking up it just turns off(because im using a hacked bios for my 7800gtx, it doesnt normally happen)

to disk works in suse for sure and in ubuntu as well IIRC when using the nv driver. it doesnt work with nvidia though. Its a desktop replacement so i dont mind much.

If you get one with integrated graphics im pretty sure it wont be a problem.

[poofyhairguy]

If you get one with integrated graphics im pretty sure it wont be a problem.

But then I can't take XGL with me.

I give up. Its impossible to get everything one would want in a Linux laptop.

[mstlyevil]

But then I can't take XGL with me.

I give up. Its impossible to get everything one would want in a Linux laptop.

Have it custom built. I know The PC Club does this so I am sure you can find someone that custom builds them.

[drizek]

But then I can't take XGL with me.

I give up. Its impossible to get everything one would want in a Linux laptop.


I dont miss suspend at all TBH. And just because it doesnt work now doesnt mean it wont work a month or two in the future with new nvidia drivers, new kernels, new acpi, etc...

for example, the sd card reader was MIA just three weeks ago. The wifi wasnt supported 4 or 5 months ago either.