Defining "Just works"

[aysiu]

I've read a lot that Ubuntu "just works." I even read it in an online magazine once.

Here are a bunch of links, mostly blogs, that talk about Ubuntu "just working":
http://www.intertwingly.net/blog/2005/11/01/It-Just-Works
http://www.davidsudjiman.info/?p=80
http://www.elburro.net/Archive/35/another-review-ubuntu
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=90627
http://www.russellbeattie.com/notebook/1008419.html

Am I the only one who thinks that phrase can be misleading to some new users? In almost all cases, when the above links talked about Ubuntu "just working," they were talking specifically about good hardware detection.

Isn't it possible that some new users could interpret "just works" to mean that they can go to the Apple Trailers website, click on a trailer, and start watching it? Or that they could visit a website with Flash and start viewing the page right away (www.risd.edu, for example)? Or that they could start playing their MP3s right away?

I'm not arguing that Ubuntu should have these things out of the box. I know why Ubuntu doesn't. I'm just wondering if anyone's ever thought about the implication of the "just works" phrase applied to Ubuntu and how it could mislead folks.

[Stormy Eyes]

Isn't it possible that some new users could interpret "just works" to mean that they can go to the Apple Trailers website, click on a trailer, and start watching it? Or that they could visit a website with Flash and start viewing the page right away (www.risd.edu, for example)? Or that they could start playing their MP3s right away?

s/possible/probable, aysiu, and you'll be closer to the truth. Inexperienced users do seem to equate "just works" with "it's magic!". Me, I'll settle for hardware detection.

[aysiu]

Me, I'll settle for hardware detection. Same here.

If proprietary codecs don't work, you just install them.

If hardware detection doesn't work... better roll up those sleeves!

[Kvark]

The first time I heard that Ubuntu just works I thought it meant that all I had to do was pop in an install CD, answer a few questions, wait an hour, and then the system itself would work exactly as it should. After the system itself "just worked" I expected to have to spend several hours finding and installing programs like office suite and image editor since that is what you have to do after a Windows install.

It was dissapointing to have to edit a system file called sources.list and do some other tweaks too. But to have to install flash, java and codecs felt logical since those are made by 3rd party companies, a clean install of Windows lacks some important 3rd party stuff too. It was a big positive surprice to see that programs for many common tasks where included in the initial install.

[Derek Djons]

I chose for hardware detection. Through the years I've used Linux the main problem was hardware detection out of the box. In most cases it was possible to compile drivers or get it working some how but 'Out Of The Box' has became an essential in my opinion. It really brought Linux from the Techno-attic to the livingroom.

[Lovechild]

I don't think I've ever heard or uttered the frase - Ubuntu just works, it has a LONG way to go.

[darkmaze]

i thought it ment less to uninstall & replace like i did in wingates

[Qrk]

It means hardware detection and easy maintainence to me.

The reason I got interested in Linux wasn't because Windows didn't detect my hardware, its because Windows was hard to maintain. I had too many viruses and extranious programs installed.

If Linux hadn't had that advantage, I would have probably switched back. Instead, I found that apt-get "just works."

Note that my first distro was Mepis. I'm not sure if I would have had the same reaction if I tried slackware first.

[xequence]

I read the title and I just knew who posted it o_O

Just works... Hmmm... It means to me when you install an OS it does all the basic things right with minimal problems. Like no editing some x.org thingy.

But basic things are different for people. Some want it to play music. Some want other things.

[BWF89]

I voted for:
-Hardware detection
-Day-to-day functioning, even with proprietary formats

[Turtle1maniac]

to me, just works means the following:

i can have a friend call me that his computer died and his english assignment is due tomorow, he has 2 hours left and he already has 4 pages done but he cant finish, i can walk over, place in a linux CD and in 5 minutes have his windows document running in linux and send him on his way ;)

[Lovechild]

to me, just works means the following:

i can have a friend call me that his computer died and his english assignment is due tomorow, he has 2 hours left and he already has 4 pages done but he cant finish, i can walk over, place in a linux CD and in 5 minutes have his windows document running in linux and send him on his way ;)


Wouldn't just work mean:

Your friend stops liking you because you can fix his computer and starts liking you because you gave him the Linux CD which:

a) he was able to install on his own with no knowledge what so ever
b) the security on his new system was such that he never get infected again with anything
c) every task he can think of works using only well debugged and profiled free software and open formats. Without crashing, running slowly or suffering from random ill effects.

Meaning he likes you for who you are and his computer is now a usable tool.

I personally never think I'll get to say any OS ever "just works".

[MetalMusicAddict]

I go with hardware detection but then again most people probally mean HW and SW.

[Bandit]

I choose other. Anything that functions without user intervention or user interfearence I consider "just works".
Example: 1) ATI radeon drivers for my 9250 on 32bit system work without me doing anything. "Just works". 2)Drag and dropping files from a CD into Ogg format without me setting up encoding software. "Just works".
Now if I have to do anything, even if its pressing the next or OK button. That is considered minor intervention.
IMHO,
Joey

[Stormy Eyes]

Just works... Hmmm... It means to me when you install an OS it does all the basic things right with minimal problems. Like no editing some x.org thingy.

I've never not had to edit my X config, but I'm a control freak. I'll settle for having the kernel recognize every piece of hardware I've got connected. I'll configure it myself, as long as the machine knows its there.

[Brunellus]

"just works" means no configuration; something like what a mass-market computer consumer expects when he buys a dell with windows.

Yes, of course. Windows wouldn't "just work" if Dell hadn't thoughtfully pre-installed all those drivers and additional software. But consumers don't care.

I've started to think in terms of "works for me" rather than "just works," anyway.

[mstlyevil]

"just works" means no configuration; something like what a mass-market computer consumer expects when he buys a dell with windows.

Yes, of course. Windows wouldn't "just work" if Dell hadn't thoughtfully pre-installed all those drivers and additional software. But consumers don't care.

I've started to think in terms of "works for me" rather than "just works," anyway.

True dat.

[poofyhairguy]

I voted for "Day-to-day functioning, even with proprietary formats," but only because a "does not force me to compile anything" option was not given.

[xequence]

I've never not had to edit my X config, but I'm a control freak. I'll settle for having the kernel recognize every piece of hardware I've got connected. I'll configure it myself, as long as the machine knows its there.

Youre one of the people who does that crazy techie stuff, you want to configure your hardware yourself o_O

What I mean is I shouldent need to do a chroot or a chmod (Keep in mind I have no idea what those two things are :)) and edit something in some unix language to be able to get my computer doing normal stuff.

[mstlyevil]

shouldent is actually spelled shouldn't. :)

[xequence]

shouldent is actually spelled shouldn't. :)

Probably. But then again I probably shouldn't use alot of odd smilies and such, like:

o_O
O_O
O_o
-.-
o.-

Yea. I like good grammar, but I just cant remember all the crazy stuff.

[mstlyevil]

Probably. But then again I probably shouldn't use alot of odd smilies and such, like:

o_O
O_O
O_o
-.-
o.-

Yea. I like good grammar, but I just cant remember all the crazy stuff.

I was just poking a little fun at ya. I misipill wurds alle thea tyme. :mrgreen:

[xequence]

I was just poking a little fun at ya. I misipill wurds alle thea tyme. :mrgreen:

And I carried on making fun at myself more =)

[IYY]

For me it was always hardware detection, and some sort of GUI for a novice to manage things (and not having to compile things often).

[Kibbo]

Linux noob here.

I had had my previous efforts to switch to linux thwarted by a wireless card. I don't think that anyone who hasn't tried can understand how difficult it is to reach a basic comfort level with linux without internet access.

I thought hardware detection, and wasn't disappointed.

[curuxz]

for me just works is hardware detection and long term stability. Like when I take my linux box online it "just works" and when I take an xp computer online it just "gets hundreds of viruses, worms, malware and other crap" in oh about 3 seconds.

Just works should be that feeling that your o/s is working with you all the time now and tomorrow.

[Mathias-K]

Thanks for making the poll back in february, aysiu, I just saw it now :)

I think "Ubuntu Just Works" is misleading. MEPIS and PCLinuxOS almost just works because of the non-free formats out of the box. I think it's important to tell the new users why Ubuntu has chosen to not just work though :)

[woedend]

when I first installed ubuntu, I put the cd in, followed the installation, it rebooted, and there I was in linux. It...just worked.

[richbarna]

My first experience of Linux was Suse and Mandrake and trying to get a usb modem to work with eagle drivers.
The installs went fine (lucky with hardware) but the no internet problem made me use windows (dual boot).

I had an out "of the box" the box experience yesterday when I downloaded and installed the Dapper Desktop CD. (previously I upgraded from Breezy)
Although I started with Hoary, and new what to do in case of problems, I found the Dapper install a piece of cake.
Live Cd in - Click install - choose auto partitioning - Language etc - Boot
I'm running Gnome instead of KDE this time round so had to get used to the layout but everything is running lovely.

I still think that for new users, Automatix should come preinstalled with the distro (this is the first thing I "apt-got").

As a whole (with my hardware) it is "out of the box"..........for me.

[?????]

I think of hardware detection as "just works". Wow. 17.24% of voters picked the last option :p

[G Morgan]

I personally think that
Just Works == Ready for the Desktop == Undefinable, worthless nonsense == FUD propagated by certain corrupt organisations.

If I was to attach a personal definition it would go something like. Doesn't phone home once a day, privacy 'just works'. Not having to dig through page after page of moronic wizards, configuration 'just works' as I want it to. Installed firewall 'just works'.

I could go on but the whole thing is a nonsense. Essentially some things are easier than others but the concept of something just working without effort is mad. Can I get Kdevelop to code for me. Will MS Word type my letter up without any intervention. Can the computer magically guess all my configuration needs as it installs a new OS and automatically have all my apps, codecs, browser plugins etc. Certainly Windows doesn't and neither does Linux I say neither of them just works and the only OS that really comes close is OSX due to the fact it will run on all of 5 machines.

//edit - also the maths here is shocking

Hardware detection 65 73.03%
Day-to-day functioning, even with proprietary formats 33 37.08%
Easy maintenance 35 39.33%
Other 13 14.61%
I've never heard this phrase before in discussions of Ubuntu 6 6.74%
Stop your polls, aysiu! Stop them now! 16 17.98%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89

Add those percentages up and you get 188.77%. It seems the site fails on the 'just works' count.//

[aysiu]

//edit - also the maths here is shocking

Hardware detection 65 73.03%
Day-to-day functioning, even with proprietary formats 33 37.08%
Easy maintenance 35 39.33%
Other 13 14.61%
I've never heard this phrase before in discussions of Ubuntu 6 6.74%
Stop your polls, aysiu! Stop them now! 16 17.98%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 89

Add those percentages up and you get 188.77%. It seems the site fails on the 'just works' count.// "Multiple Choice Poll" on this site means you can vote for more than one option--that must have something to do with the percentages not adding up to 100%. I'm not sure how that works, though.

[cstudent]

Hardware detection is nice.
Easy installation of software is nice too.
Having the shackles removed that bound me to a greedy corporation is priceless.

.

[Ubunted]

I plugged in my iPod nano the other day, Rythmbox opened up and the icon popped up on the desktop. It was like running it native with iTunes, except I did not need to install anything.

The Volume, Calculator, E-Mail etc. buttons on my Logitech keyboard all work with ZERO configuration. I just tried them one day out of curiosity and bam, up pops the calculator.

This, to me, is the definition of "Just Works".

I had less luck with my MX510 as the Back and Forward buttons are non-functional, but I didn't use them much anyway and just switched back to my trusty MS Wheel Mouse Optical which is both lighter and easier to clean.

[blueturtl]

Doesn't break by itself or by just using it.