How the free software culture works.

[llawwehttam]

Firstly the phrase 'free software' can be very misleading. A lot of people think that 'free' means that they are getting somthing for no cost and that is as far as it goes.

That is firstly an incorrect assumption and is very selfish as well.

“Free software (http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html)” is a matter of liberty, not price. To understand the concept, you should think of “free” as in “free speech”, not as in “free beer”.
Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software:





The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

Quote from the GNU project http://www.gnu.org/

If you are using 'free software' then someone has taken the time to write this software for you for no profit or gain but because they believe they are helping you. If your attitude like so many others is that 'you don't really care where it comes from as long as you don't have to pay', then that is very selfish.

Many people who use Linux / other free operating systems and pieces of software are very willing to help others. This forum for example . People posting answers here are not making money out of it but are here purely to help you because they want to see free software become something more and I don't think that derogatory comments about the Operating system or the Developers views on free software are at all appropriate as they are helping you out for nothing.

If you have experience in an area then it is very helpful if you share it rather than keeping it to yourself. On the other hand if you are new to free software ask away! and when you start to build up your knowledge, share it with others.

However if all you can do is complain about the software and the lack of help you are getting the I suggest you go and get a refund.

[pwnst*r]

Cool rant.

[NoaHall]

However if all you can do is complain about the software and the lack of help you are getting the I suggest you go and get a refund.

Wow, original. Don't know why I never came up with that reply. It's not like the software should be good regardless of price, or anything.

[llawwehttam]

Cool rant.

lol thanks. I had several tabs open with different threads I was following and when I started the post It was not supposed to be a rant but after getting a rather rude remark in another thread ( not naming anyone) i kinda got a bit worked up.

[Tristam Green]

lol thanks. I had several tabs open with different threads I was following and when I started the post It was not supposed to be a rant but after getting a rather rude remark in another thread ( not naming anyone) i kinda got a bit worked up.

It's cool. It was a rude reply to a snide comment.

[ankspo71]

Selfish?
I don't see how saving money is being selfish. Can't I enjoy free software and save a bundle too?\\:D/

[Eisenwinter]

I don't think saying "I don't care where it comes from" is selfish.

What's selfish is to endlessly complain about the program, without making an active effort to improve it (report bugs, help others solve their issues and get workarounds, or even modify the source itself).

[llawwehttam]

I don't think saying "I don't care where it comes from" is selfish.

What's selfish is to endlessly complain about the program, without making an active effort to improve it (report bugs, help others solve their issues and get workarounds, or even modify the source itself).

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Your post explains my thoughts exactly. My comment was aimed at those who complain but do not do anything to help.

Sorry if i misled anyone there.


Selfish?
I don't see how saving money is being selfish. Can't I enjoy free software and save a bundle too?\\:D/
Yes you can do both , I am not calling anyone selfish for saving money. My point is that if you are saving money by using and hopefully enjoying free software it is good to share it with others and not keep it to yourself.

Yet another case of my bad wording so sorry again for that.

[adelphos]

This... is a really good point. I think a lot of people are making the mistake of importing their mindset that "the customer is always right" into a context where nothing is being sold. A few people have been trained to be selfish by a consumerist culture, such that they don't think to be grateful when someone has made something just for their sake, and not for profit.

[llawwehttam]

This... is a really good point. I think a lot of people are making the mistake of importing their mindset that "the customer is always right" into a context where nothing is being sold. A few people have been trained to be selfish by a consumerist culture, such that they don't think to be grateful when someone has made something just for their sake, and not for profit.

I can't thank you enough for that comment. That is EXACTLY right.

Maybe ungrateful would have been a better word to use than selfish in my original post.

[betrunkenaffe]

As a person who deals with development of projects at work, I will have to echo NoaHall's comment that quality shouldn't be sacrificed.

This isn't a disagreement that those that don't assist but whine from the sidelines shouldn't have their internet connections taken away. Even constructive criticism is helpful.

[ankspo71]

Hi Again,
Thanks for clarifying that for me. ;) The reason I commented is because I personally don't care where software comes from, whether it be from open source or from non open source, as long as it doesn't cost me or I am bound to some sort of unusual contract where it costs me later (or to make me feel like a criminal because I wanted to email the software to a friend or something). I do prefer open source software now because I know that I am free to do whatever with it. ...but I can see now that this wasn't what the topic was about in the first place. ;)

Just so everyone knows where I stand. I do appreciate everything that open-source software and it's developers has done for me. I wouldn't be computing these days if it wasn't for you guys and gals.

[Dragonbite]

Maybe I wasn't clear enough. Your post explains my thoughts exactly. My comment was aimed at those who complain but do not do anything to help.

So if you can't code, don't complain?

[NoaHall]

So if you can't code, don't complain?

This is GNU/Linux. Everyone can code.

[alphaniner]

So if you can't code, don't complain?

Come on now, it's clear he wasn't saying that. He was agreeing with


What's selfish is to endlessly complain about the program, without making an active effort to improve it (report bugs, help others solve their issues and get workarounds, or even modify the source itself).

[jayze]

Its actually easier to give than to receive...so everybody gives without expecting anything back:popcorn:...god I'm gonna get awfull big eatin all this popcorn!

[pwnst*r]

This is GNU/Linux. Everyone can code.

But if you don't code, nor have any desire to, you're looked down on giving feedback to said software?

[llawwehttam]

But if you don't code, nor have any desire to, you're looked down on giving feedback to said software?

After using gnu/linux for a while you have to learn some basic coding at least just to get your system as you want it but you don't have to help by coding. There are other ways of showing your thanks such as donating, helping others get used to the differences between microsoft and linux and pretty much anything your good at. If your good with the gimp or photoshop of course there is a large element of graphics.

Pretty much anything you can do to help is appreciated.

[Dayofswords]

However if all you can do is complain about the software and the lack of help you are getting the I suggest you go and get a refund.
(radom observation, not really a comment to post)

kind opposite of me in many ways
1. i dont return software(generally you cant, they think you made copies)

2. me, google and forums always help, tech support from big companies is always "is it plugged in?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be3alRoxkOo)

3. i dont openly complain, i just "awww, wish that was better, oh well"

[BigSilly]

I don't think this thread, the original post, or some of the comments therein do anything to help the cause of free software.

Making demands of new users isn't an option at all is it? There will be some that can (code), and many that cannot, and when you're looking at a worldwide userbase of people who are quite happy with Windows, where will this attitude get anyone? A deep breath, a step back and a look at the bigger picture is needed, because I can't see how finger-wagging is supposed to be appealing to any newcomer.

It's either free (as in cost and use), or not free really at all, and actually expecting something from the end user. Many of which will not be technically minded or code-literate at all. I include myself in the latter category.

[jayze]

So if you can't code, don't complain?....this strikes a chord... I'm not IT savvy enough to help!...so where do those of us who can't help in this way fit in?.... This is one of the reasons why I think the community cafe needs to be broadened a little bit so that newcomers and the general poulation can start inputting some human skills.... I honestly think that if ubuntu don't start looking at things this way a little more they will find themselves one day becoming old hat....this years peacock is tomorrows feather duster!..and you cant fight mainstream if you stay subculture!:popcorn:

[NoaHall]

....this strikes a chord... I'm not IT savvy enough to help!...so where do those of us who can't help in this way fit in?.... This is one of the reasons why I think the community cafe needs to be broadened a little bit so that newcomers and the general poulation can start inputting some human skills.... I honestly think that if ubuntu don't start looking at things this way a little more they will find themselves one day becoming old hat....this years peacock is tomorrows feather duster!..and you cant fight mainstream if you stay subculture!:popcorn:

Human skills ? Like coding? ;)

[jayze]

:lolflag:
Human skills ? Like coding? ;) <comedian

[pwnst*r]

After using gnu/linux for a while you have to learn some basic coding at least just to get your system as you want it

With a quote like that, why do half of the forum want Linux to be the desktop OS of choice? Average users will NOT be coding anything.

Also, your statement is not true. I've not had to code a thing and have been using Ubuntu since Warty.

[Dragonbite]

....this strikes a chord... I'm not IT savvy enough to help!...so where do those of us who can't help in this way fit in?.... This is one of the reasons why I think the community cafe needs to be broadened a little bit so that newcomers and the general poulation can start inputting some human skills.... I honestly think that if ubuntu don't start looking at things this way a little more they will find themselves one day becoming old hat....this years peacock is tomorrows feather duster!..and you cant fight mainstream if you stay subculture!:popcorn:

The best resource a non-coder can supply directly for FOSS other than evangelism and marketing, are bug reports. The tricky thing is knowing where/how to submit a bug report.

The latest Fedora (12) has a pretty good bug reporter (or is it just that there are more bugs in Fedora? ;) ). After setting up an account it comes up automatically (even if the system is still working, if it detects a crash it pops up), lets me report it with additional information (how did you produce this, other notes, etc.) If you've reported it already, it lets you know that (and a link to find it) and keeps count of how many times it's happened.

Make bug-reporting and feature suggestioning easy, which unfortunately then increases the human need for sifting through all that mess.

[RiceMonster]

I can safely say I've heard this rant many times before.


After using gnu/linux for a while you have to learn some basic coding at least just to get your system as you want it

What? No you don't.

[judge jankum]

I'm a Ubuntu/Linux nOOb, I consider myself an end "user" of the product...Code is good when I type or paste something from one of the techs on the forum to fix a bug...
But if end users have to learn code to use it, MS will always have the edge....
It grew because you "didn't" need a dos book to run it...

[RiceMonster]

I'm a Ubuntu/Linux nOOb, I consider myself an end "user" of the product...Code is good when I type or paste something from one of the techs on the forum to fix a bug...
But if end users have to learn code to use it, MS will always have the edge....
It grew because you "didn't" need a dos book to run it...

It sounds like you're talking about terminal commands. That's not the same thing as code.

[judge jankum]

It sounds like you're talking about terminal commands. That's not the same thing as code.

To someone not use to it, as I am, I depend on you guys for the terminal commands too...

[Mornedhel]

After using gnu/linux for a while you have to learn some basic coding at least just to get your system as you want it

I *think* several other people have already jumped in and flamed you for this, but I'll say it anyway: you're either confusing "coding" with "writing entries in a configuration file" and "stringing together a ls and a less", or you're really into customizing your system, to the point of rewriting utilities when they don't do what you want.

Anyway, as you say, there are other ways. Report bugs, write documentation, translate strings, raise awareness, donate.

[schauerlich]

Open source software is less secure because hackers can see the flaws in the program.

</troll><flamewar>

[Khakilang]

I am quite happy that there is people around who give and never ask anything back. I really do appreciate this kind people that want to benefit the people. But I am normal user and one day I hope to be able to contribute back. But at the moment never no how.

[Eisenwinter]

Open source software is less secure because hackers can see the flaws in the program.

</troll><flamewar>
* Eisenwinter gets out the flame-thrower

Take that, burn!