VOTE for OpenOffice to make a full-fledged Web Editor!

[L4U]

Edit: OOo declines (http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=108140) the suggestion.

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If you are a current/former MS Frontpage (or Dreamweaver) user and have been longing for a similar user-friendly WYSIWYG html editor that's full of convenient features also, please take a minute and GO HERE AND VOTE (http://www.openoffice.org/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=108140) for my suggestion for OpenOffice to make a full-fledge Web Editor as a part of OOo Suite that rivals Frontpage and Dreamweaver!

Most of the Linux html editors are not WYSIWYG and are too advanced for amateur web editors (like me :) ) and the only few apps that truly are WYSIWYG's (KompoZer, Amaya, and SeaMonkey) are practically all the same apps and most Frontpage users would say they just don't match up to those friendly qualities of Frontpage (or Dreamweaver -- I assume even though I never used DW).

OOo does have a simple html editor as a part of OOWord (called "Writer/Web") that a lot of Frontpage users seem to agree is the closet Linux web editor to Frontpage, but is not geared to be a full-fledged web editor.

Frontpage doesn't work under Wine and even though I hear Dreamweaver works well under Wine, I've also hear the graphics suffer and it's "just not the same" having to run it under Wine.

I'm not trying to knock KompoZer, Amaya, or SeaMonkey. I would love to see those apps add Frontpage-like features too and if you are a user of any of those apps, please go to their sites and request more Frontpage-like features (and any other features you wish) for their developers to improve them.

I think making a more amateur-friendly WYSIWYG web editors for people to make their websites would really benefit the Linux community by bringing in more Windows users and make more Linux users get one-step closer to being Windows-free!

:)

[loell]

OpenOffice has so much yet to do.

[NoaHall]

Not quite sure if I support this move. Making a website is always better via the html coding. It's worth learning - not taking a easy way out. Anyway, in terms of OpenOffice.org doing it, I don't think it's quite the right time, nor the right option for a office package. Besides, if you want to take the easy way, there's always "convert to website" in Writer.

[teward]

Two thoughts: you can make a web page with Writer, and direct HTML coding pwns all.

[RiceMonster]

I'd rather they improve it as is. There's a lot to be improved.

[OutOfReach]

IMO, I don't really think OpenOffice would be the "right" place for a WYSIWYG HTML editor...a separate program, maybe. But why not focus on improving an existing program? Instead of adding yet another program that doesn't have as much features as DW etc

Besides, as others have said, OpenOffice still has a lot of work on it's plate. The last thing we want to do is add more work...

[Giant Speck]

How about they improve upon what they already have instead of making another half-assed application? Last time I checked, OpenOffice had a lot of room for improvement and was far from perfect.

[L4U]

Not quite sure if I support this move. Making a website is always better via the html coding. It's worth learning - not taking a easy way out.
You have to understand that the average computer user wanting to build a website are amateurs doing it just for fun. That's a huge market that's not being tapped into.


Besides, if you want to take the easy way, there's always "convert to website" in Writer.
Yes I know. I stumbled upon Writer/Web in OOo while trying to find the closet Frontpage alternative. It had a very user-friendly feel which sparked me to suggest to OOo to make a full-fledged web editor like Frontpage/KompoZer/etc.

[NoaHall]

You have to understand that the average computer user wanting to build a website are amateurs doing it just for fun. That's a huge market that's not being tapped into.


Yes I know. I stumbled upon Writer/Web in OOo while trying to find the closet Frontpage alternative. It had a very user-friendly feel which sparked me to suggest to OOo to make a full-fledged web editor like Frontpage/KompoZer/etc.

Well, there's always online site builders, or people like me who get paid for making them.

[L4U]

IMO, I don't really think OpenOffice would be the "right" place for a WYSIWYG HTML editor...a separate program, maybe.
That's what I meant by "full-fledged" web editor, just like Microsoft has Frontpage as part of their MS Office suite.


But why not focus on improving an existing program? Instead of adding yet another program that doesn't have as much features as DW etc
I did mention in my OP that I encourage users of KompoZer, Amaya, and/or SeaMonkey to call for improvements to those apps too. Basically, the first to make a feature-worthy replacement for Frontpage gets my business!


Besides, as others have said, OpenOffice still has a lot of work on it's plate. The last thing we want to do is add more work...
Come on, there are TONS of Linux programmers that can help out. Do we really need another Linux Distro?!

[L4U]

or people like me who get paid for making them.
Ah so that's it, you don't want the competition?! ;)

[NoaHall]

Ah so that's it, you don't want the competition?! ;)

I don't really call some amateur's drawings with Frontpage a competition :)

[altonbr]

Absolutely not.

I reviewed web editing applications for Full Circle Magazine in issue 20 (http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-20/) and although there is no program even close to have feature parity or the user-friendliness of Frontpage (eww) or Dreamweaver, OpenOffice.org is not the project to do it.

I agree with everyone else that OpenOffice.org needs to improve their office suite first before adding another piece of software to their product line.

For one, OpenOffice.org doesn't even use full GTK+2 widgets which means horrible integration with GNOME. Just try changing the font face and font size in GNOME and see how OpenOffice.org reacts.

(attaching comparison image of AbiWord (full GTK+2 support) vs OpenOffice.org)

[Gramps]

I agree with one of the other posters, if you want to create web pages then you need to learn html at the very least. The code that FB writes is bloated and causes the pages to load slowly. Instead of trying to get an existing application to be like FB how about learning to use what is already there if you must have a WYSIWYG editor.

Linux is not Winodws and I sure hope that it never becomes Windows. Open Office is an Office Suite I don't think they need to add another app to take care of.

L4U
You could always hire some out of work programers to write you a FB clone for Linux.

[L4U]

Absolutely not.

I reviewed web editing applications for Full Circle Magazine in issue 20 (http://fullcirclemagazine.org/issue-20/)
Reading...

[3rdalbum]

Come on, there are TONS of Linux programmers that can help out. Do we really need another Linux Distro?!

This is open-source - you can't force people to work on a particular project. If they wanted to work on Openoffice.org Web or Kompozer, they'd already be working on it.

Also, not everyone who can make a Linux distro can code in C. Heck, some people who make Linux distros can't even write bash scripts.

[L4U]

OpenOffice.org is not the project to do it.

For one, OpenOffice.org doesn't even use full GTK+2 widgets which means horrible integration with GNOME. Just try changing the font face and font size in GNOME and see how OpenOffice.org reacts.
Which project do you think would be the best for making a user-friendly Frontpage-like editor? KompoZer? Abi-Word?

I get the impression that amateurs like me liked Frontpage because it spawned from a word processor (MS Word) versus Dreamweaver that seems like it spawned from a non-WYSIWYG html editor. That's why I thought OOo would be the logical choice and have an advantage in that aspect since they have Writer which has an html editor already, albeit not a full-fledged one like KompoZer.

Btw, if OOo should integrate a GTK+2 Widget, shouldn't someone campaign to get them to incorporate that?! Also, just because OOo isn't as GNOME conducive apparently, wouldn't not supporting OOo to add Frontpage-like features to their web editor be like not supporting Quanta Plus to add Frontpage-like features because they are KDE?

But regardless, if another project can produce a Frontpage-like app, I would totally use their app and be one step closer to being Windows-free.

[L4U]

if you want to create web pages then you need to learn html at the very least.
Never needed to with Frontpage.


The code that FB writes is bloated and causes the pages to load slowly.
I'm not saying to make one exactly like Frontpage!


Linux is not Winodws and I sure hope that it never becomes Windows.
But wouldn't you like to see people become Windows-free?!


Open Office is an Office Suite I don't think they need to add another app to take care of.
Frontpage was a part of MS Office.


You could always hire some out of work programers to write you a FB clone for Linux.
And if that happened, I bet that app would be the most popular web editor on Linux.

[DeadSuperHero]

Don't most people use CMS'es anyways?

Why doesn't somebody just write a simple visual CSS editor with plugins to preview how the "theme" would work on a variety of CMS engines? (Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal, XOOPS, etc.)

[phrostbyte]

Web design novices should use templates/CMS made by professionals with CSS and web standards. Please do not unleash the horror that was Frontpage web design back on the web.

[Groucho Marxist]

Two thoughts: you can make a web page with Writer, and direct HTML coding pwns all.

Agreed; I found that my preferred method of coding was to use a basic text editor (such as gedit), save the files and load them locally in Firefox for testing.

[user1397]

I agree that more work should be put on openoffice as it is, and to let other wysiwig editors mature (I think the seamonkey editor (where kompozer was forked from) is under a huge revision, gotta find the link.

[starcannon]

Open Office needs to continue perfecting the current goals, not add new ones.

Kay, thanks.

[L4U]

What's up with all the Negative Nancy's on this thread?!

WYSIWYG html editors lag on Linux. There's a huge market out there for a good one. I, for one, think the Linux community is talented capable enough to make a good WYSIWYG.

Have some faith!

[m0o]

Frontpage was a horrendous piece of software to design web pages with. If you're curious about web design at all you should learn CSS/HTML enough to write with an editor like Gedit/Kate. It seems intimidating at first, but you can get the basics down in no time.

Nevertheless, Here are some applications that might interest you:



Aptana (http://www.aptana.com/) (a little advanced, but more like Dreamweaver)
NVU
(http://net2.com/nvu/)
Selinda (http://selida.camelon.nl/selida.html)

[Techsnap]

One thing at a time. OpenOffice needs to continue what they're doing first before they should even consider adding new programs to the office suite, that and most office users won't use them.

People who need web dev tools will install them manually, others will just not need them and it just adds to OpenOffices already tarnished bloat image.

[L4U]

Frontpage was a horrendous piece of software to design web pages with.
You know I keep hearing that, but I never had a problem with it. If it wasn't for Frontpage being so easy to learn, I don't know if I ever would have stuck with web building.

I also haven't seen a single amateur web builder who has praised any Linux web editor after coming from using Frontpage (remember, I'm speaking about amateurs).


If you're curious about web design at all you should learn CSS/HTML enough to write with an editor like Gedit/Kate. It seems intimidating at first, but you can get the basics down in no time.
Look, I'd love to be learn all type of coding to solve all types of computer software problems, but most people, like me, aren't that computer savy. That's why software suited for amateurs sell more.


Nevertheless, Here are some applications that might interest you:
Aptana
NVU
Aptana is not a WYSIWYG and NVU/Kompozer does not have a lot of the features sought after in Frontpage.


Selinda
Never heard of this one, but looks to be Windows only and not maintained in years.

[K.Mandla]

At the risk of sounding dour, I can't get behind a campaign to vote for someone else to make something. All of this is done at the goodwill of people who are more talented and more knowledgable than I, and attempting to steer their efforts strikes me as somehow rude. If someone writes a FrontPage knockoff and releases it, I'll try it, but I don't think they should suffer my attempts to tell them how or what to do.

[Rodney9]

I wish there was something like Rapidweaver for Linux, easy for home and small business users without needing to learn html, xhtml, css etc.

I used it on my old 2nd hand mac and it was so easy to get my site up, I could also help lots of friends and family to get homepges and small sales sites made.

I have looked at Kompozer, Apaya, Seamonkey but none are as easy.

[L4U]

One thing at a time. OpenOffice needs to continue what they're doing first before they should even consider adding new programs to the office suite, that and most office users won't use them.
But their existing Writer/Web is pretty good for an html editor and Frontpage users I've told about it all seem to agree it's very user-friendly and the most like Frontpage. It's just not made to handle multiple-page websites as is, but all OOo would need to do is add a file-management app to it to make it a full-fledged web editor.

For me, Writer/Web only needs a few more features to win me fully over.

[L4U]

At the risk of sounding dour, I can't get behind a campaign to vote for someone else to make something. All of this is done at the goodwill of people who are more talented and more knowledgable than I, and attempting to steer their efforts strikes me as somehow rude. If someone writes a FrontPage knockoff and releases it, I'll try it, but I don't think they should suffer my attempts to tell them how or what to do.
I don't think it's ever rude to make suggestions to a project which ask for suggestions as OOo does!

I'm not the only frontpage user who feels this way about OOWeb. Many see the same potential in it as I do, but looks like they were steered away from it by other Linux users who keep saying to choose Kompozer instead, but as I said, I haven't seen a former Frontpage user say Kompozer is better.

[L4U]

I have looked at Kompozer, Apaya, Seamonkey but none are as easy.
Exactly! That's why I'm pushing for this.

[Grenage]

People in this thread are making a lot of sense. OpenOffice isn't really the place for an website designer; just because one company did it that way, it doesn't mean everyone should.

Frontpage made the most God-awful pages; anyone that cares enough to campaign for someone else to make a WYSIWYG editor, should care enough to learn how to write pages correctly.

[kilosan]

Unfortunately, we have no resource available to fix or improve the HTML component

i would also like a full fledged web editor. but as you can see, they lack the resources. lets wait what Oracle would do about it.

or maybe you can knock on Go-OO doors or Lotus Symphony.

[koleoptero]

I propose we create a petition for openoffice to include a coffee-brewing program and a special addon that can drive the kids to school and back.

Just imagine how much our productivity would increase if we didn't have to bother with such menial tasks! I say we go and vote, and do it now!

[orlox]

Just to add myself to the general trend in here...

I think WYSIWYG editors for web, are currently a very bad approach to create a web-site. Getting decent results from that kind of editors is a very laborious task, pages usually end up looking horribly outdated, plagued with tables, and who knows what else...styles are also embbeded in the html, so modifying any of the visuals of a page turns into a living hell...

If you're not a pro, and can't learn basic html and css to code your pages, then go the cms-route. You'll get your results much faster, and much prettier. If you're in a serious project, the WYSIWYG element will become even less useful in the sense that you will start needing to code php or anything like that. Heck, even static pages could require you to code some java-script.

In conclusion, i'd rather prefer seeing an open-source version of aptana, or that they improve the tools for web development in eclipse. Perhaps there's a small fraction of people that could require something like that, but there are far more important things to improve in other areas...

[NoaHall]

I propose we create a petition for openoffice to include a coffee-brewing program and a special addon that can drive the kids to school and back.

Just imagine how much our productivity would increase if we didn't have to bother with such menial tasks! I say we go and vote, and do it now!

We wouldn't even have to learn how to make coffee or drive! Wow! That's great! I'm voting for that!

[juancarlospaco]

I vote for OpenOffice to make a full-fledged Adobe Master Suite and Autodesk AutoCAD 2010 replacement.
And Web too.

[squilookle]

I don't reckon its the best idea. I never saw a decent web page made in Front Page, and I'm not fussed about having something similar made: I'd rather resources were spent on improving the OOo as it is, getting it to the same (and hopefully as higher level than) Microsoft Office.

I prefer Writer to Word, but I think Calc and Impress have some way to go to catch up with their MS counterparts.

[L4U]

OOo declined the suggestion, so I'm abandoning this thread and going to start another one to campaign for a better WYSIWYG web editor.