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phrostbyte
January 7th, 2010, 08:36 PM
This is an unscientific assessment of your knowledge of free culture. If you read/watched something on this list, take the point values of those things and sum them. Then vote on the poll.

Cornerstone works:
"Free Culture" by Dr. Lawrence Lessig - 12 points
Why Software Should Not Have Owners by Richard Stallman - 4 points
GNU Manifesto by Richard Stallman - 4 points

Essays:
Copyright vs Community in the Age of Digital Networks by Richard Stallman - 4 points
Copyleft: Pragmatic Idealism by Richard Stallman - 3 points
All other GNU essays - 1 point

Books:
"Libre Culture: Meditations on Free Culture" by David M. Berry and Giles Moss - 5 points
"After the Software Wars" by Keith Curtis - 4 points
"The Fourth Paradigm" by Microsoft Research - 4 points
"Open Source Democracy" by Douglas Rushkoff - 3 points
"Cathedral and the Bazaar" by Eric Raymond - 3 points
"The Age of Spiritual Machines" by Ray Kurzweil - 2 points

Documentaries:
"Good Copy Bad Copy" by ROSFORTH - 4 points
"Revolution OS" by JTS Moore - 2 points
"Steal This Film" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 points
"Steal This Film II" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 points
"Zeitgeist: Addendum" by Peter Joseph - 1 point (note: this is the sequel to the Zeitgeist movie, the first one doesn't count) :)

Of course this list is far from complete, feel free to add suggestions and point values. :)

blueshiftoverwatch
January 7th, 2010, 10:23 PM
I got a 6.

But just because you haven't read 100,000 books on open source and copyleft licenses doesn't mean that your not educated. I'm probably more in favor of free culture than most of the people on these forums. I completely reject (http://libertariannation.org/a/f31l1.html) the entire notion of intellectual property in general.

Tristam Green
January 7th, 2010, 10:25 PM
0, loud and proud. like bsow said, you don't have to read a junkton of politically-charged essays and manifestos to be educated on a matter.

phrostbyte
January 7th, 2010, 10:30 PM
I got a 6.

But just because you haven't read 100,000 books on open source and copyleft licenses doesn't mean that your not educated. I'm probably more in favor of free culture than most of the people on these forums. I completely reject (http://libertariannation.org/a/f31l1.html) the entire notion of intellectual property in general.

Yeah you are right, it's not the best way judge knowledge (but really I don't know what is).

phrostbyte
January 7th, 2010, 10:33 PM
0, loud and proud. like bsow said, you don't have to read a junkton of politically-charged essays and manifestos to be educated on a matter.

I would say you'd have to read/watch something about free culture. How do you even know what free culture is you never even learned anything about it? Are you just relying on hearsay?

llawwehttam
January 7th, 2010, 10:33 PM
19. I read a lot of the GNU philosophy and please don't call it political rubbish as after you've read it it really makes you think about how the world of computer works.

whiskeylover
January 7th, 2010, 10:34 PM
0.

Maheriano
January 7th, 2010, 10:39 PM
I got 1 for seeing Zeitgeist and I wouldn't consider that much free culture at all. I'm in quite a place with this though, I'm a software developer by profession and I charge many many dollars per hour for my work. I've even contemplated a few ideas that would change e-commerce forever, bringing the advantage back to the customer but I'm afraid to mention it to anyone should I decide to develop it at a later date. I know it's better for the world if someone gets to this as soon as possible but I need to make money too. I'm really not sure what to do, I'm becoming the corporate glutton I hate.

alphaniner
January 7th, 2010, 10:40 PM
0, loud and proud. like bsow said, you don't have to read a junkton of politically-charged essays and manifestos to be educated on a matter.
I would say you'd have to read/watch something about free culture. How do you even know what free culture is you never even learned anything about it? Are you just relying on hearsay?

I have to agree, if you haven't read at least a few primary sources it's hard to claim education on an issue.

Anyway, I guess my score is 5-9, I've read a few things by Stallman and a few other GNU essays.

LeifAndersen
January 7th, 2010, 11:15 PM
4 (and only because it was part of the GPL, which I obviously felt obligated to read). By the way, you forgot Eric Reymand's stuff. You should put in at least the Cathedral and the Bazar, and possibly Hacker FAQ. You might also want to consider Teach yourself to Program in 10 years.

Zoot7
January 7th, 2010, 11:19 PM
1, just for the reason that I've watched the Zeitgeist movie.

phrostbyte
January 7th, 2010, 11:32 PM
4 (and only because it was part of the GPL, which I obviously felt obligated to read). By the way, you forgot Eric Reymand's stuff. You should put in at least the Cathedral and the Bazar, and possibly Hacker FAQ. You might also want to consider Teach yourself to Program in 10 years.

Done. :) I will look into the others.

---------
RE: Zeitgeist

The Zeitgeist documentary is the sequel, not the original one. I put it in there because it goes into detail about a "resource based economy", which is loosely associated with free culture. That's also why Age of Spiritual Machines is in there.

RiceMonster
January 7th, 2010, 11:38 PM
I've got 5 of them. 18 points, I think.


19. I read a lot of the GNU philosophy and please don't call it political rubbish as after you've read it it really makes you think about how the world of computer works.

I've read it, and I only partially agree with it.

alexfish
January 8th, 2010, 12:38 AM
I Think My Score is 0

But I do Know this Free Culture


the freedom to use the work and enjoy the benefits of using it
the freedom to study the work and to apply knowledge acquired from it
the freedom to make and redistribute copies, in whole or in part, of the information or expression
the freedom to make changes and improvements, and to distribute derivative works




My view is
All of the above is how All We Got Here today
Any person or company or whatever . trying to deny any of the above are Two Sandwiches Short of a Picnic
rest my case ; mi lord

speedwell68
January 8th, 2010, 12:48 AM
12

Hwt
January 8th, 2010, 12:49 AM
Of course this list is far from complete, feel free to add suggestions and point values. :)

Licenses:

Creative Commons licenses (legal document): 10 points
GNU GPL: 5 points
GNU LGPL: 5 points
GNU AGPL: 5 points
Creative Commons licenses (summaries): 2 points
BSD License: 2 Points
MIT License: 2 Points

Surely licenses deserve points. The GPL is a pain in the *** to read and understand fully, and anyone who has done both deserves credit.

KeithCu
January 8th, 2010, 11:18 AM
25+

That "Software Wars" book should be worth more than 4 points ;-)

del_diablo
January 8th, 2010, 12:12 PM
21 points. Mostly from reading of stallman and interisting stuff.

clanky
January 8th, 2010, 12:17 PM
I would say you'd have to read/watch something about free culture. How do you even know what free culture is you never even learned anything about it? Are you just relying on hearsay?

Any reason why I should care? I do not particularly want to be educated about free culture, I just want an operating system that works. Personally I couldn't care less about the political / ethical crap that seems to be doing its best to keep free / open source software in the obscure rut that it is presently in.

If people spent less time writing books and essays about how "Microsoft is evil" and how "the codes should be free, man" and more time doing useful stuff then the whole FOSS movement might advance a bit quicker.

llawwehttam
January 8th, 2010, 12:24 PM
Any reason why I should care? I do not particularly want to be educated about free culture, I just want an operating system that works. Personally I couldn't care less about the political / ethical crap that seems to be doing its best to keep free / open source software in the obscure rut that it is presently in.

If people spent less time writing books and essays about how "Microsoft is evil" and how "the codes should be free, man" and more time doing useful stuff then the whole FOSS movement might advance a bit quicker.

Well that statement just proves you have no idea what the opensource community is about. The Free software Foundation is NOT about 'hating microsoft'.
Maybe if you had read some of those works you would understand this a bit better.

If everyone took the same attitude as you there would never have been such a thing as opensource or free software.

halovivek
January 8th, 2010, 12:45 PM
This is the first time i am seeing this book names :(

etnlIcarus
January 8th, 2010, 01:09 PM
I've laughed at choice Stallman quotes - that's gotta be worth something.

Also have to lol at any inclusion of Zeitgeist. Haven't seen Addendum but simply by virtue of it being from the same dude who cooked up Zeitgeist, it's instantly worth negative points.

Tristam Green
January 8th, 2010, 02:22 PM
Well that statement just proves you have no idea what the opensource community is about. We are not about 'hating microsoft'.
Maybe if you had read some of those works you would understand this a bit better.

If everyone took the same attitude as you there would never have been such a thing as opensource or free software.

Yeah yeah, we get it, you are Anonymous and you are legion, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

llawwehttam
January 8th, 2010, 02:28 PM
Yeah yeah, we get it, you are Anonymous and you are legion, etc. etc. ad infinitum.

This was not my intention at all when I posted that remark. I guess the wording was a bit misleading and if I have accidentally mislead you there I apologise. The point of free software is that there are no restrictions as to what you can do with it.

The freedoms of 'free' software are:



The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

My point was that without people being motivated to produce this software we would all be using proprietary software full of restrictions and legal issues.

A person with ubuntu is open and available to others, affirming of others, does not feel threatened that others are able and good, for he or she has a proper self-assurance that comes from knowing that he or she belongs in a greater whole and is diminished when others are humiliated or diminished, when others are tortured or oppressed. ~ Archbishop Desmond Tutu (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Tutu), 1999

This very well describes the point of Free software as a whole.

phrostbyte
January 9th, 2010, 08:25 PM
Any reason why I should care? I do not particularly want to be educated about free culture, I just want an operating system that works. Personally I couldn't care less about the political / ethical crap that seems to be doing its best to keep free / open source software in the obscure rut that it is presently in.

Free culture is not for everyone, especially not nihilists. Do you care about building a better world? If you do, you should care about free culture.



If people spent less time writing books and essays about how "Microsoft is evil" and how "the codes should be free, man" and more time doing useful stuff then the whole FOSS movement might advance a bit quicker.

I think this shows why it's important to be educated about free culture. Learn more about what is before you trash talk it, because you do not know what free culture is.

Interestingly Microsoft Research's "Forth Paradigm" is a very persuasive free culture treatise. It could have been authored by Richard Stallman. It goes into detail about how sharing knowledge and code is the best way to progress society, and into detail about how each and every field of science would benefit from it's existence. Lastly it advocates that the government start funding these developments. So it goes to show you that "free culture = hating Microsoft" is not true at all. Free culture ideals CAN come from Microsoft. Also "After The Software Wars" is written by a veteran Microsoft employee.

phrostbyte
January 9th, 2010, 08:30 PM
I've laughed at choice Stallman quotes - that's gotta be worth something.

Also have to lol at any inclusion of Zeitgeist. Haven't seen Addendum but simply by virtue of it being from the same dude who cooked up Zeitgeist, it's instantly worth negative points.

I agree that the first one was full of garbage. The second Zeitgeist doesn't go into the religious nonsense of the first. It puts the focus on a so called "resource based economy" which is an economy where human labor quickly becomes worthless and only resources have value. This economic system is loosely associated with free culture. For instance, RMS talks about such an economy in the GNU Manifesto and feels that will be the end result of the free software movement. Hence why I gave it 1 point.

That's also while the "Age of Spiritual Machines" is on there. It's not a treatise on free culture, but rather on the potentiality of technology in general to eliminate human labor, and the enviable resource based economy. Since it's not directly about free culture, it's only worth 2 points.

etnlIcarus
January 10th, 2010, 02:53 AM
That sounds vaguely like post-scarcity theory.

Groucho Marxist
January 10th, 2010, 03:48 AM
This was not my intention at all when I posted that remark. I guess the wording was a bit misleading and if I have accidentally mislead you there I apologise. The point of free software is that there are no restrictions as to what you can do with it.

The freedoms of 'free' software are:



The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).
The freedom to study how the program works, and change it to make it do what you wish (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this.
The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).
The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others (freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to benefit from your changes. Access to the source code is a precondition for this.



For those users wishing to truly enrich their earthly existence with the highest aims of free culture, I recommend the following addendum to the previous freedoms.


A terminal may not injure a kernel, or, through scripting, allow a kernel to come to harm (freedom 4)
A terminal must obey any orders given to it by end users, except where such orders would conflict with the Fourth Freedom (freedom 5)
A terminal must protect its own distribution as long as such protection does not conflict with the Fourth or the Fifth Freedom. (freedom 6)

etnlIcarus
January 10th, 2010, 04:09 AM
/thread

Woormy
January 10th, 2010, 05:05 AM
Here is my response:


I got a 6.

But just because you haven't read 100,000 books on open source and copyleft licenses doesn't mean that your not educated. I'm probably more in favor of free culture than most of the people on these forums. I completely reject (http://libertariannation.org/a/f31l1.html) the entire notion of intellectual property in general.

phrostbyte
January 10th, 2010, 10:13 PM
That sounds vaguely like post-scarcity theory.

Post-scarcity is similar, but societies like that of depicted in Star Trek are post-scarce but not really resource based. Because if you have replicators and unlimited resources pretty much, you don't really have a resource based economy.

Resource based economies still have limiting factors, but those limiting factors usually do not involve human labor, rather they are limited by natural resources. A truly post-scarcity economy would be even more advanced then a resource based economy, assuming space travel or virtual reality would permit unlimited or very close to unlimited resources.

Hyporeal
January 11th, 2010, 03:56 AM
From my perspective, free culture is more closely related to a gift economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gift_economy) than it is to a resource-based economy. (Note the section on the information gift economy.) Perhaps Lewis Hyde's brilliant book The Gift should be put in the list with a point value of 1. He's currently writing a book called Cultural Commons, which ought to be an interesting read as well.

Dharmachakra
January 11th, 2010, 04:11 AM
I'll give myself half a point... simply because I have RevolutionOS in my Netflix queue but I've failed to actually watch it.

etnlIcarus
January 11th, 2010, 05:14 AM
Post-scarcity is similar, but societies like that of depicted in Star Trek are post-scarce but not really resource based. Because if you have replicators and unlimited resources pretty much, you don't really have a resource based economy.

Resource based economies still have limiting factors, but those limiting factors usually do not involve human labor, rather they are limited by natural resources. A truly post-scarcity economy would be even more advanced then a resource based economy, assuming space travel or virtual reality would permit unlimited or very close to unlimited resources.

Post-scarcity theory doesn't necessarily mean 'replicators like Star Trek', where no resource is finite. Even in the gas-guzzling 20th century, we've seen (mostly failed) attempts at more pragmatic post-scarce economics. In this context, post-scarcity would mean little more than the removal of artificial scarcity.

Psumi
January 11th, 2010, 06:36 AM
2 points, watched Revolution OS on google videos.

Kdar
January 11th, 2010, 03:30 PM
6:
Watched those:
"Revolution OS" by JTS Moore - 2 points
"Steal This Film" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 points
"Steal This Film II" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 poin

What about Code Linux movie?

I am also started to read Software Wars

phrostbyte
January 11th, 2010, 11:48 PM
If you guys have suggestions, you have to give me what you think it's worth!

As selfish as I am by subjectively assigning point values myself, I'm not going to randomly guess how relevant a work is if I never bothered to read/watch it. :)

phrostbyte
January 11th, 2010, 11:53 PM
6:
Watched those:
"Revolution OS" by JTS Moore - 2 points
"Steal This Film" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 points
"Steal This Film II" by the Legaue of Noble Peers - 2 poin

What about Code Linux movie?

I am also started to read Software Wars

After the Software Wars is good because it's from the perspective of a long time Microsoft employee. So he is able to point out flaws in the proprietary software development with some authority.

However the second part of the book goes out into some heavy tangents, but that not completely atypical with some free culture works. Free culture is a kind of a pragmatic Utopianism. :)

J V
January 12th, 2010, 12:12 AM
got a 2, but most of the articles, essays, books etc, address the same things... Its like reading all the versions of windows for dummies (And theres less in those every edition anyway!)

samh785
January 12th, 2010, 01:07 AM
I would say you'd have to read/watch something about free culture. How do you even know what free culture is you never even learned anything about it? Are you just relying on hearsay?
well, its pretty easy to pick up some info on the subject through discussions with other people. Personally I would have to say that a balanced combination of personal experience, literature, and discussions of an issue/subject is the best way to know about something.

Kdar
January 13th, 2010, 03:05 PM
I agree that the first one was full of garbage. The second Zeitgeist doesn't go into the religious nonsense of the first. It puts the focus on a so called "resource based economy" which is an economy where human labor quickly becomes worthless and only resources have value. This economic system is loosely associated with free culture. For instance, RMS talks about such an economy in the GNU Manifesto and feels that will be the end result of the free software movement. Hence why I gave it 1 point.

That's also while the "Age of Spiritual Machines" is on there. It's not a treatise on free culture, but rather on the potentiality of technology in general to eliminate human labor, and the enviable resource based economy. Since it's not directly about free culture, it's only worth 2 points.

I agree with you about this.

First video is kind of very subjective, especially when it talks about Egyptian gods and Christian religion.
However it is true that Christianity adapted some ideas or imagery from Roman religion (just for the simple fact that many Roman temples were converted to Christian churches, and some of those imagery on those temples were adapted into Christianity).
However I think it is hard to say if what they say about relationship between Egyptian religion or Christianity is true. However if realise that most of our world's religions are similar in one way or another and probably originated from one common source (cave man's fear, our fear in general), what they say could be somewhat true. But not 100%, since I don't think Egyptian religion inspired Christianity, at least, not directly. However it might have in-direct effects.

However I really liked the 2nd movie. It talked about many interesting social and economical problems in our society. And also provided their probably main view on their image of future, or what it can be.

I think they have another video, which talks specifically only about their ideas on social and economical ideas for future, which I think covers everything behind what they stand.

etnlIcarus
January 13th, 2010, 03:38 PM
First video is kind of very subjective
Try a wildly elaborated, fabricated, cherry-picked and childish narrative that never actually gels into anything comprehensible. At least, from what I'm reading, it's creator manages to pick a single subject and stick to it, wit his second effort.

However I think it is hard to say if what they say about relationship between Egyptian religion or Christianity is true.No, that was actually at the far less ridiculous end of the film's scale.

KegHead
January 13th, 2010, 05:21 PM
Hi!

I'm well eeducated.

I,ve got 20 years of education.

I passed the 10th grade twice.

KegHead

Kdar
January 13th, 2010, 05:30 PM
Hi!

I'm well eeducated.

I,ve got 20 years of education.

I passed the 10th grade twice.

KegHead

good for you :P

handy
January 14th, 2010, 01:25 AM
We don't know, what we don't know.