Is Google getting too big?

[Linux_junkie]

Sitting at home whilst watching a news story on tv about the new mobile phone from Google I was thinking about all the other services the're offering and began to wonder if they are getting too big and are wanting to take over the (computer) world!

What does anyone else think about Google? I'd love to know.

Linux_junkie

[LeifAndersen]

Yes, they have. Not to **** PwnSt*r off any further, but I wrote an article about this:
http://leifandersen.net/2009/12/23/when-companies-are-too-large/


Should this be a concern? When a single corporation has enough power to make a country tremble, isn’t that going a bit too far. Even the once notorious Microsoft does not wield that much power, as both Linux, and Apple, but especially Linux (because I am also a linux fanboy, and have a thing against Apple’s draconian policies). Sure Google has a competitor, Bing. Google also claims that for every App that they have, their is a competitor that does the exact same thing, and Google goes the extra mile to make certain that you can move your data to their platform. To a certain extent, I believe them. After all, I’m writing this blog on wordpress, not blogger, because I believe wordpress is more powerful, and will allow me to grow more (once I get more than 15 views a day). Still, none of these services provide the integrated environment that Google does (Mmmm…sounds a little like Apple, doesn’t it).

[felious_fadger]

yea. but they will get too big and fail.

[alphaniner]

yea. but they will get too big and fail.

Or "too big to fail."

[Xbehave]

I'm not too fussed about how big they are aslong as they arn't evil. The moment they start acting evil (IMO) I'll up and move to a non-evil provider (of any size) for search/email/etc

[felious_fadger]

I'm not too fussed about how big they are aslong as they arn't evil. The moment they start acting evil (IMO) I'll up and move to a non-evil provider (of any size) for search/email/etc

but they will get corrupted. its always the same thing with businesses. they start off small and caring, get bigger, try to expand their market reach into other areas, spread themselves too thin with the over complexities that trying to dip into different markets instead of staying focused, start caring less and less about the customer, something in the company goes wrong, people panic, cracks appear and boom, everything falls down. repeat over and over.

[doas777]

yes. they have also become evil.

[SuperSonic4]

I'm more bothered about google's privacy policy than anything else.

If i could change the default search engine in firefox (ie knew how) I would

[murderslastcrow]

I don't think Google is getting too big, for two reasons.

1. Some people don't use it (older folks sometimes don't even know it exists).
2. You don't HAVE to use any of their stuff. It's just nice to use all in one place. There are lots of other similar services, sometimes also in the same place under the same logo.

If Google died today, something else would take its place, and there are plenty of good sites that offer the same services, so Google's only so big because we all like Google so much.

No one's making you use their OPEN SOURCE browser, or their OPEN SOURCE Operating System, or their nearly completely open source phone OS. Even for Linux phones there are more options than just Android (N900 could be one example).

I think Microsoft and Apple with their Zunes and iPhones that lock people out of their own media, as well as Windows and OS X and their "oh, the user's rights are secondary, so lets put it in legalize and hope they don't read it" attitude, are worth far more worry.

And I don't even think THEY are worth worrying about. People just seem to be afraid when they use one thing a lot, since everyone using one OS, one search provider, one anything can be bad for society. The simple fact is, this is not the case, and you can stop worrying until you start being forced to use a service from a company in your day to day life.

This almost sounds as silly as, "My whole family eats carrots- I hope the carrots don't come to kidnap us some day!"

[00ber n00b]

They are gonna take over more than the computer world! Next thing you know they'll be offering space flights.

[cascade9]

No one's making you use their OPEN SOURCE browser, or their OPEN SOURCE Operating System, or their nearly completely open source phone OS. Even for Linux phones there are more options than just Android (N900 could be one example).

Chrome (browser) isnt open source. Chromium is, and its what Chrome is based off....but Chrome itself isnt open source. I'm pretty sure that Chrome (OS) works the same way with Chromium (OS). Anyway, Chrome/Chromium is a borderline 'OS' IMO. Its only going to run a web browser- what sort of OS is that? It makes microsoft look a lot nicer....

Dont get confused by the way google plays with words.


yes. they have also become evil.

+1.

[malspa]

Laughing here because I know someone who throws Ubuntu in there with Microsoft and Google. Too big, evil, all that.

[LeifAndersen]

Chrome (browser) isnt open source. Chromium is, and its what Chrome is based off....but Chrome itself isnt open source. I'm pretty sure that Chrome (OS) works the same way with Chromium (OS). Anyway, Chrome/Chromium is a borderline 'OS' IMO. Its only going to run a web browser- what sort of OS is that? It makes microsoft look a lot nicer....

Dont get confused by the way google plays with words.



+1.

Meh, it could be worse. I try and tell people I have upgraded my wordpress.com blog to a wordpress blog, and they are really confused. And you know what, I don't blame them. :lolflag:

[Xbehave]

I'm more bothered about google's privacy policy than anything else.

If i could change the default search engine in firefox (ie knew how) I would
Go to about:config and edit keyword.URL google also do the anti-fishing stuff (browser.safebrowsing.*) so remove that or find an alternative.

Funny how many people accept big = Evil, even if there is no argument to show that, the EU is the biggest economic force in the world does that make Europe evil?

I judge a company by their actions not their size, and call me an optimist but I don't think that just because a company is powerful they will become evil.

[carbonbased]

Yes, but the way organisations work, this will not stop them any time soon. Look at the dysfunction of MS. Look at the Roman Empire. Look at Congress.

Google will be here, too large and increasingly dysfunctional for many, many years to come.

[doas777]

that they are big does not in itself make them evil. this does:
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/09/google-ceo-says-priv.html

[Xbehave]

that they are big does not in itself make them evil. this does:
http://www.boingboing.net/2009/12/09/google-ceo-says-priv.html
That is totally out of context, Google's CEO said that

if you want to keep something private, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place
Which is just being realistic about the situation of online privacy, and got attacked for it, the reality is that between your ISP, judicial request (which hotmail/yahoo don't even chanlenge), etc you don't have any privacy, you can't hold it against him for pointing it out.

[doas777]

That is totally out of context, Google's CEO said that

Which is just being realistic about the situation of online privacy, and got attacked for it, the reality is that between your ISP, judicial request (which hotmail/yahoo don't even chanlenge), etc you don't have any privacy, you can't hold it against him for pointing it out.


no the reality is, that you do not need to be doing anything wrong, to desire your privacy. the implication of his and your statements are clear; if you want to do something privately, then you must want to do something bad.

[starcannon]

No, they aren't too big.
No they aren't evil, any more so than any other for profit company.
No they don't have a privacy issue, they offer a service, in payment, you agree to their terms; don't like, don't use, there is no problem here.
No they are not a charity, they do not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, they have families, mortgages, employees, etc... all of which require money; they get a lions share of their money through marketing, they have become good at marketing by watching people on their search engine and cloud applications; again, don't like, don't use.
No they are not forcing you to use their search engine, applications, or phones; it is up to you what you use, buy, and install. There are several other very decent search engines out there, there are choices; see how easy "don't like, don't use" is?
No its not a conspiracy to read your personal email, it is just a business.


GL and HF

[Xbehave]

no the reality is, that you do not need to be doing anything wrong, to desire your privacy. the implication of his and your statements are clear; if you want to do something privately, then you must want to do something bad.But if your doing something you want to do privately, your probably shouldn't be doing it online (on any search engine, not just google).

[LeifAndersen]

No, they aren't too big.
No they aren't evil, any more so than any other for profit company.
No they don't have a privacy issue, they offer a service, in payment, you agree to their terms; don't like, don't use, there is no problem here.
No they are not a charity, they do not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, they have families, mortgages, employees, etc... all of which require money; they get a lions share of their money through marketing, they have become good at marketing by watching people on their search engine and cloud applications; again, don't like, don't use.
No they are not forcing you to use their search engine, applications, or phones; it is up to you what you use, buy, and install. There are several other very decent search engines out there, there are choices; see how easy "don't like, don't use" is?
No its not a conspiracy to read your personal email, it is just a business.


GL and HF

Sure, it's not a conspiracy, and I don't really see any privacy issues. But when a company gets so large that a government (even if it's the French government ;) ), would be hurt more by banning them from their country, than the company would be hurt by being banned, than it is too large.

[dragos240]

I are serious cat, and this is serious thread.

[Rubruquis]

Yes, Google is getting too big IMO. The search information they have is alone a very important information. But Google is not only a search engine. Ask yourself what an ordinary computer user does on internet. He uses an operating system (Google Chrome OS), uses an internet browser (Chrome), makes searches (Google.com), sends&recieves e-mails (Gmail), uses a messenger program (GTalk), makes social networking (Google Wave). Also don't forget that they also released their own public DNS addresses.

Soon Google will control almost all the information flowing on the internet. I'm not really against them as long as they make everything open source but I also think that they should be watched carefully and shouldn't be allowed to control all the information flowing on the internet.

[pwnst*r]

No, they aren't too big.
No they aren't evil, any more so than any other for profit company.
No they don't have a privacy issue, they offer a service, in payment, you agree to their terms; don't like, don't use, there is no problem here.
No they are not a charity, they do not do this out of the kindness of their hearts, they have families, mortgages, employees, etc... all of which require money; they get a lions share of their money through marketing, they have become good at marketing by watching people on their search engine and cloud applications; again, don't like, don't use.
No they are not forcing you to use their search engine, applications, or phones; it is up to you what you use, buy, and install. There are several other very decent search engines out there, there are choices; see how easy "don't like, don't use" is?
No its not a conspiracy to read your personal email, it is just a business.


GL and HF

Absolutely agree with every bullet point.

[blueshiftoverwatch]

If you don't like Google use Scroogle (http://www.scroogle.org/cgi-bin/scraper.htm). It's exactly the same but your IP won't be logged and used to build up a vast database of all your interests.

[pwnst*r]

Yes, Google is getting too big IMO. The search information they have is alone a very important information. But Google is not only a search engine. Ask yourself what an ordinary computer user does on internet. He uses an operating system (Google Chrome OS), uses an internet browser (Chrome), makes searches (Google.com), sends&recieves e-mails (Gmail), uses a messenger program (GTalk), makes social networking (Google Wave). Also don't forget that they also released their own public DNS addresses.

You don't have to use any of those services. Also, that is NOT the average computer user by a large margin.

[Twitch6000]

Chrome (browser) isnt open source. Chromium is, and its what Chrome is based off....but Chrome itself isnt open source. I'm pretty sure that Chrome (OS) works the same way with Chromium (OS). Anyway, Chrome/Chromium is a borderline 'OS' IMO. Its only going to run a web browser- what sort of OS is that? It makes microsoft look a lot nicer....

Dont get confused by the way google plays with words.



+1.

You do realize that is what cloud computer is right? That is why they are going for the netbook market.

OH and yes they are opensource.

All chrome is is chromium with the backing of google.

If you really think even google is evil you might as well sit right by the idiot known as Richard Stallman and run hurd.

[Rubruquis]

You don't have to use any of those services. Also, that is NOT the average computer user by a large margin.

I did not say that you have to. What do you think is the average computer user? I'd like to know.

[pwnst*r]

I did not say that you have to. What do you think is the average computer user? I'd like to know.

Windows users.

[Twitch6000]

I did not say that you have to. What do you think is the average computer user? I'd like to know.

Oh god not this again..

To most of the tech heads an average user who is someone who plays a game like freecell,looks at their email and maybe just maybe searchs the web.

A fine example of this is my grandparents.

[Rubruquis]

I said just what you said. I said they use an operating system, use internet browser, makes searches, send&receive e-mails, makes social networking etc.
I think I expressed myself wrong. I didn't mean to say that an ordinary computer user uses Google products. What I meant was, Google has everything an ordinary computer user needs.

[pwnst*r]

I said just what you said. I said they use an operating system, use internet browser, makes searches, send&receive e-mails, makes social networking etc.
I think I expressed myself wrong. I didn't mean to say that an ordinary computer user uses Google products. What I meant was, Google has everything an ordinary computer user needs.

Now THAT makes more sense to me, thank you.

[xuCGC002]

that they are big does not in itself make them evil.
http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/3339/roalddahlthebfg.jpg

[LeifAndersen]

All of you keep missing the issue. You're all arguing over whether or not Google is evil. I would like to remind you of the initial post:


Sitting at home whilst watching a news story on tv about the new mobile phone from Google I was thinking about all the other services the're offering and began to wonder if they are getting too big and are wanting to take over the (computer) world!

What does anyone else think about Google? I'd love to know.

Linux_junkie

It's disusing whether or not Google is too big, not if it's evil. Google is sort of like the BFG. In contrast, Apple is small in comparison, but they are evil (well, not evil, but draconian anyway).

With that being said, I think Google is getting a bit big, even if they are soft and friendly.

[user1397]

screw all large corporations, support your local businesses! :popcorn:

[HappinessNow]

Sitting at home whilst watching a news story on tv about the new mobile phone from Google I was thinking about all the other services the're offering and began to wonder if they are getting too big and are wanting to take over the (computer) world!

What does anyone else think about Google? I'd love to know.

Linux_junkie
Nay they need to get bigger, better faster!

I am sick and tired of both Windows and Apple. We need Google for a good third option. In fact we need more companies like Google.

Google is too small, too slow!

[Xbehave]

screw all large corporations, support your local businesses! :popcorn:Why? I mean other than environmental benefits (which are somewhat muted by online services), why buy local? Personally I weigh up the deal and the ethics of the company and i'd rather go big because there is less chance of getting screwed.

[doas777]

But if your doing something you want to do privately, your probably shouldn't be doing it online (on any search engine, not just google).

what, like filing your taxes, banking, dating, updating insurance information, registering for government services, genealogy, studying security, etc?
if you can't do those things on the internet privately then what good is it?

[pwnst*r]

I think he meant via the search engine and the data they mine.

[doas777]

I think he meant via the search engine and the data they mine.

perhaps, but that is not what google said.

[alphaniner]

perhaps, but that is not what google said.

So you think it's more reasonable to assume he was talking about any and all activity on the internet, rather than the business he represents?

[Defiant Rat]

Yes, Google is getting too big IMO. The search information they have is alone a very important information. But Google is not only a search engine. Ask yourself what an ordinary computer user does on internet. He uses an operating system (Google Chrome OS), uses an internet browser (Chrome), makes searches (Google.com), sends&recieves e-mails (Gmail), uses a messenger program (GTalk), makes social networking (Google Wave). Also don't forget that they also released their own public DNS addresses.

Thats because thats what google do. They provide services on the internet.

You might as well accuse someone like ebuyer of being evil because they can provide you with all the components needed to build a computer. Google are a company. If there was no profit in it for them, why would they bother researching and developing new things.

[doas777]

So you think it's more reasonable to assume he was talking about any and all activity on the internet, rather than the business he represents?
he stated in no uncertian terms, that he was talking about all service providors ("not just google"), with the implicaation that he was speaking about things beyond search engines as well.

[user1397]

If there was no profit in it for them, why would they bother researching and developing new things.umm, open-source model? :-k

[michaelpagz]

I don't feel that its a matter of evil or not. People are concerned about privacy and they have a reason to be. No, Google doesn't abuse the data they have from their users, that would not serve their interests. Having said that, something does not have to be at the worst end of a sliding scale for it to be bad. They still "connect the dots" with their user's data across their services. They still blame those with the questions when someone asks or criticizes them about privacy. They are still very not-open about many of their products while candy-feeding the open source community. They have amazing products to be sure, but I decided to distance myself from the Google-verse in the name of internet diversity. Google, although welcoming competition with words, is creating a monoculture with their actions. Everyone on both sides of the "Google argument" need to remember that Google isn't the beginning and end of the internet and they only have as much power as you want them to have. There are alternatives to every service they provide, so if someone does not feel comfortable operating within Google's system, then they needn't do so. I used to be a Google addict, but its way more fun to find different solutions and services. That's my two cents. :)

[malspa]

Everyone on both sides of the "Google argument" need to remember that Google isn't the beginning and end of the internet and they only have as much power as you want them to have. There are alternatives to every service they provide, so if someone does not feel comfortable operating within Google's system, then they needn't do so. I used to be a Google addict, but its way more fun to find different solutions and services.

Good point, though. If you don't want to use Google stuff, you don't have to.

[malspa]

what, like filing your taxes, banking, dating, updating insurance information, registering for government services, genealogy, studying security, etc?
if you can't do those things on the internet privately then what good is it?

Maybe it's no good, then. Personally, most of the stuff you mentioned I prefer NOT to do online. I don't really trust the internet much when it comes to privacy. Maybe it's true that "Privacy is an Illusion."

[LeifAndersen]

umm, open-source model? :-k

Which, other than good PR, would benefit them how?

[gletob]

Or "too big to fail."

Exactly, there is a certain point where a company reaches that make it go from: "This company can fail if they're not doing well" to "This company is so big that if we allow it to fail it will take our economy with it" So the Federal Govt. steps in to help. (A la AIG, Fannie May, Freddie Mac, GM, Chrysler)

[bluelamp999]

From The Register...

Google to mobile industry: ‘F*ck you very much!’

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/08/google_nexus_partner_friendly/

Sample

"Google has lobbied for this for years now; it's also why Google has its own private internet. Googlenet already carries 10 per cent of the net’s traffic internally, and this is a testbed for replacements for the open protocols we use today such as http and dns. And it sure as hell isn’t neutral."

[papangul]

That article ^^ is full of BS. Google getting into the way of mobile companies making a windfall is unethical- that is the point the author is trying to make desperately!

[wavery]

My optimistic view of Google is that it has a vision of how computing will done in the future and needs to be in many places (whether many places=big can be debated) to make it happen. I don't think it can be called 'too big'. If you don't like Google, don't use its products...easy enough.

Take Microsoft on the other hand. One sometimes can't get around not using its products. THAT is too big IMO. I like that Google threatens MS.

[Rubruquis]

Thats because thats what google do. They provide services on the internet.

You might as well accuse someone like ebuyer of being evil because they can provide you with all the components needed to build a computer. Google are a company. If there was no profit in it for them, why would they bother researching and developing new things.


I never said they are evil. I said they are getting too big. I also mentioned that I am not against them as long as they make everything open source.

[jayze]

I wave "night-night" to them every evening from my terrace....just to let them know I'm off to bed:popcorn:

[Linux_junkie]

Wow I never imagined as many responses as this to my post but thank you guys for your responses. The purpose of my post was to ask if Google was too big to care about its customers (users).

In my opinion the bigger a company gets (and the more profit it makes) appears to just concentrate on wanting more and more profit year on year and when they become so focused on that then their service to the customer isn't as good.

also I welcome the point a few of you made that if you don't like the service you can choose not to use it but as I've discovered in relation to Google search you can't use a web browser without Google being the default search and as is the case with most Windows users if they are offered a service people tend not to use anything else.

Linux_junkie

[pwnst*r]

I never said they are evil. I said they are getting too big. I also mentioned that I am not against them as long as they make everything open source.

Then you're against them now since not everything is open source.

[pwnst*r]

...but as I've discovered in relation to Google search you can't use a web browser without Google being the default search and as is the case with most Windows users if they are offered a service people tend not to use anything else.



Actually, Bing is the default search with a new Windows installation and using IE.

[LeifAndersen]

Then you're against them now since not everything is open source.

They are more open source now than they were before.

[pwnst*r]

They are more open source now than they were before.

Cool story, but that wasn't the point.

[LeifAndersen]

Cool story, but that wasn't the point.

Mm...good point, sorry. They still keep a large portion of their stuff closed.

[Twitch6000]

Now THAT makes more sense to me, thank you.

Plus 1