Italian consumer group plans class action against Microsoft

[newbie2]

Around 2,000 people, most of them Linux users, have already expressed interest in participating in the lawsuit, Donvito said in a telephone interview.
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9143102/Italian_consumer_group_plans_class_action_against_ Microsoft
:popcorn:

[alphaniner]

There seems to be a lot of this going around lately. Part of the price of a Windows machine is a discount, subsidized by software manufacturers who bundle trial or limited editions of their software. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If this keeps on it will result in price increases somewhere in the line.

[phrostbyte]

If they win this it might set a pretty nice precedent. If Linux is ever to get on the desktops, I think we need to work with the law to unbundle Windows from OEM machines.

[pwnst*r]

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9143102/Italian_consumer_group_plans_class_action_against_ Microsoft
:popcorn:

Whoop-de-doo. Nothing will come of it, but enjoy your popcorn anyway.

[phrostbyte]

Whoop-de-doo. Nothing will come of it, but enjoy your popcorn anyway.

I hope you are still around when they win this case. Just so I can link this post back to you. :lolflag:

[Exodist]

PwnSt*r is prob right, nothing may come out of it. But I would like to see the say when Windows isnt on a PC by default.
Making it a law that the OS is to be sold separately from the PC would make a OS company, regardless of if its Microsoft, Red hat, Canonical or Bobs OS Company work a little harder to refine their software. Currently MS is the only one basicly force feeding it down consumers throats though.

[jayze]

Personal opinion only but you need to be a bit wary with the italians...I mean look what they did to Mussolini...:lolflag:

[newbie2]

If I walk into my local computer store and pick up a computer, it'll most likely have Microsoft Windows installed. I don't want it; so I know need to get my money back from the unwanted copy...

This is where they have the issue.

1) The OEM ship the computer in mass to the retailer; thus, the retailer wont give me a refund/discount.

2) The OEMs normally wont help you because they have a contract with Microsoft that requires them to sell the computer with an OS.

3) Microsoft wont help you because you purchased the computer via an OEM (Depending on Make/Model the OEM prices vary so even MS doesn't know what the OEM paid for the copy. Note they may know but they don't want it to become public knowledge).

The law suit is asking MS to drop the "must have OS" rule and/or create an easy way to get refunds of the unwanted copy.

[Ms_Angel_D]

Making it a law that the OS is to be sold separately from the PC would make a OS company, regardless of if its Microsoft, Red hat, Canonical or Bobs OS Company work a little harder to refine their software. Currently MS is the only one basicly force feeding it down consumers throats though.

This would be nice, (Not to sound to much like John Lennon..lol) Imagine all the people Having a choice, now that would be a beautiful thing.

[HappinessNow]

The law suit is asking MS to drop the "must have OS" rule and/or create an easy way to get refunds of the unwanted copy.

Sounds reasonable but why is the EU not doing this instead of just Italy?

[newbie2]

Sounds reasonable but why is the EU not doing this instead of just Italy?
Because there is no 'U' (as in UNITED) before 'EU' ...:P

[koshatnik]

In theory, computers should not come with an OS.

In reality, we are too far down the Microsoft monopoly road for that to change. Had this been imposed in 1995, then things might have been different. Its too late now. The horse has long bolted.

[adelphos]

I don't really mind the fact that Windows is bundled on new PC's. However since the Windows EULA states "IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND, IF APPLICABLE," it should be possible to do so.

My question is, why does MS feel the need to include that clause in the EULA? Is there a special legal reason that the refund needs to be offered in the contract?

[newbie2]

I don't really mind the fact that Windows is bundled on new PC's. However since the Windows EULA states "IF YOU DO NOT AGREE, DO NOT INSTALL, COPY, OR USE THE SOFTWARE; YOU MAY RETURN IT TO YOUR PLACE OF PURCHASE FOR A FULL REFUND, IF APPLICABLE," it should be possible to do so.

My question is, why does MS feel the need to include that clause in the EULA? Is there a special legal reason that the refund needs to be offered in the contract?
There is a lot about that to read here :
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/82291/index.html
;)

[Ylon]

That logic of "refund" is completely absurd.

Simply:
1. the Windows price should appear on the receipt (and must be the cost of a clean Window's license, not stupid price few €cents.)
2. should possible to get directly the discount from that price on check (if the os is pre-installed, it must forced removed in the store directly)
3. You can "integrate" the OS (in the price, as now is with all desktop).. only if the one which is selling you the hardware made the pc desktop/notebook (Microsoft assemble and sell their own PC.. like apple is doing).


As long I don't trust Italian government (I am Italian), I should remember that something similar was done with the recharge costs to all Mobile Operator in our cantry: Wind(Egypt), Vodafone(UK), Tre Italia(China's H3G) and the italian TIM

So I don't see why shouldn't be any difference for "Microsoft Italia"

[whiskeylover]

That logic of "refund" is completely absurd.

Simply:
1. the Windows price should appear on the receipt (and must be the cost of a clean Window's license, not stupid price few €cents.)
2. should possible to get directly the discount from that price on check (if the os is pre-installed, it must forced removed in the store directly)
3. You can "integrate" the OS (in the price, as now is with all desktop).. only if the one which is selling you the hardware made the pc desktop/notebook (Microsoft assemble and sell their own PC.. like apple is doing).


As long I don't trust Italian government (I am Italian), I should remember that something similar was done with the recharge costs to all Mobile Operator in our cantry: Wind(Egypt), Vodafone(UK), Tre Italia(China's H3G) and the italian TIM

So I don't see why shouldn't be any difference for "Microsoft Italia"


The licenses are heavily discounted by Microsoft, so they cannot be the cost of a "clean window's license".

Try building your own computer from parts, and you'll realize that there isn't a whole lot of difference in prices. The couple hundred bucks difference would be the money made by the manufactures to put the part together. Remove windows, and you'd only save a few bucks.

IMHO, if you don't want windows bundled with your PC, either build your own, or get it from a manufacturer that sells them without an OS.

[Swagman]

YEs but...

It's FAR more satisfying to hammer Microsoft isn't it.

[Marlonsm]

The licenses are heavily discounted by Microsoft, so they cannot be the cost of a "clean window's license".

Try building your own computer from parts, and you'll realize that there isn't a whole lot of difference in prices. The couple hundred bucks difference would be the money made by the manufactures to put the part together. Remove windows, and you'd only save a few bucks.

IMHO, if you don't want windows bundled with your PC, either build your own, or get it from a manufacturer that sells them without an OS.

I agree, if you bought a computer with Windows, you also bought Windows itself.
In a very bad comparison, it's like buying something and trying to get a refund for the box it came in because all you wanted was the product, not the box.

[Swagman]

Actually its more akin to buying a brand new car and being told that you can only use Ms petrol (or diesel) in it.

The problem with that petrol is it has lots of floaty crappy crap in it so you'll need inline fuel filters to try and stop the crap.

But... It'll still get through somehow eventually so you will have to flush the entire system and start again.

Hopefully Joe Public WONT have saved anything in "My Documents" coz thats a laundry chute into the engine room, right where all that crappy gunge infested os software is. So when they use their restore disc......

Hey... Where'd my stuff go ?