Apple question

[yester64]

How do G5 rate against current systems? If they run Linux that is. Or are intel based just way better?

[witeshark17]

AFAIK the intel harware is best for Linux. Only one distro that I know runs on the previous series of CPU's, Yellowdog.

[schauerlich]

Snow Leopard doesn't support PowerPC, and Linux support for PowerPC is iffy at best. Go for a Mac Pro.

[yester64]

Snow Leopard doesn't support PowerPC, and Linux support for PowerPC is iffy at best. Go for a Mac Pro.

So anything but intel mac. Ok, at least i know.
I wonder why PPC is not so good supported. There are so many PPC's out there and not just Apple.
I once thought about MorphOS and its based on a PPC too.

[Frak]

Go for Intel if you can. Performance wise, G5s can still blow their Intel counterparts out of the water. As old as they are, they are plenty powerful.

Also, MorphOS won't run on G5s. It only runs on certain G4s.

[schauerlich]

So anything but intel mac.

A Mac Pro is an Intel Mac.


I wonder why PPC is not so good supported. There are so many PPC's out there and not just Apple.

It's still not nearly as common as x86 (most Intel/AMD).

[LowSky]

So anything but intel mac. Ok, at least i know.
I wonder why PPC is not so good supported. There are so many PPC's out there and not just Apple.
I once thought about MorphOS and its based on a PPC too.

The only current and widely available PPC out there right now is the Sony PS3.

[Frak]

The only current and widely available PPC out there right now is the Sony PS3.
And Wii, and 360.

[yester64]

A Mac Pro is an Intel Mac.



It's still not nearly as common as x86 (most Intel/AMD).

True. My point was only that there are also other alternatives. Morph is truly an exotic system, but even supported by IBM.
Was there are particular reason why there is no more effort for ppc in general? I mean they are older computers, but they are still powerful and useful. Such a shame. :(
I will look into the intels then. But i don't think i will get a pro, rather a imac. That should fulfill my needs.

[blueshiftoverwatch]

Performance wise, G5s can still blow their Intel counterparts out of the water. As old as they are, they are plenty powerful.
When you say "counterparts", do you mean the equivalent Intel chips that were released at around the same time the G5's were. Or the Intel Core 2 Duo chips that are currently going into Mac computers? If it's the second one, I would be very shocked.

[wmcbrine]

Only one distro that I know runs on the previous series of CPU's, Yellowdog.That hasn't been true for a long time, if ever. Even Ubuntu runs on PPC, although it's no longer officially supported. But 9.10 is available:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads

[witeshark17]

That hasn't been true for a long time, if ever. Even Ubuntu runs on PPC, although it's no longer officially supported. But 9.10 is available:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCDownloads Well, it was as I last knew about Linux on Macs

[Frak]

When you say "counterparts", do you mean the equivalent Intel chips that were released at around the same time the G5's were. Or the Intel Core 2 Duo chips that are currently going into Mac computers? If it's the second one, I would be very shocked.
With a good Altivec library (for which Ubuntu's blows), Dual core G5's running at 2.5GHz can outperform an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.5GHz.

If you compare this on Ubuntu, you'll get skewed results thanks to Ubuntu having a terrible Altivec library. Using Yellowdog and the FreeVec library, you'll get much faster speeds.

The PowerPC line were, and still are, much better than the x86 line.

[yester64]

With a good Altivec library (for which Ubuntu's blows), Dual core G5's running at 2.5GHz can outperform an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.5GHz.

If you compare this on Ubuntu, you'll get skewed results thanks to Ubuntu having a terrible Altivec library. Using Yellowdog and the FreeVec library, you'll get much faster speeds.

The PowerPC line were, and still are, much better than the x86 line.

So whats your take. Get a G5 and what distro? I mean a G5 is certainly cheaper and i am open to anything what saves money and still gets me a decent mac.

[handy]

The only current and widely available PPC out there right now is the Sony PS3.

I think it is really stretching it to compare the Cell CPU with the kind of PPC architecture that was used in the PPC CPUs used in the Apple's.


So whats your take. Get a G5 and what distro? I mean a G5 is certainly cheaper and i am open to anything what saves money and still gets me a decent mac.

There is a PPC version of Arch that is quietly maintained as well.

I use Arch on my intel based iMac, & have never had a system on any computer (not even the Amiga) that I've been happier with. :)

You may thoroughly enjoy having a look at this page, as you really should be able to get a stinking hot G5 perhaps with 2 CPUs very cheap these days & then run it on the super fast Arch system <big grin>:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/

[Exodist]

How do G5 rate against current systems? If they run Linux that is. Or are intel based just way better?
They are expensive PCs, nothing more.
I have a G4 1Ghz PPC with 512MB RAM running Jaunty. Its a little sluggish.

But if you do come across a G5 really cheap. It can be a fun toy, but latest OSX doesnt support G series anymore. Which is why I have jaunty on mine.

If your looking to run Linux you can build an comparable/identical system for 1/3rd of the price of a Mac Pro.

[blueshiftoverwatch]

With a good Altivec library (for which Ubuntu's blows), Dual core G5's running at 2.5GHz can outperform an Intel Core 2 Duo at 2.5GHz.

If you compare this on Ubuntu, you'll get skewed results thanks to Ubuntu having a terrible Altivec library. Using Yellowdog and the FreeVec library, you'll get much faster speeds.

The PowerPC line were, and still are, much better than the x86 line.
Had Apple not ditched PPC which pretty much spelt it's doom on the desktop computer market, I wonder how 64 bit PPC would have compared to x86_64. Assuming they decided to extend the 32 bit PPC architecture to 64 bit and not developed a whole new architecture to replace it.

So whats your take. Get a G5 and what distro? I mean a G5 is certainly cheaper and i am open to anything what saves money and still gets me a decent mac.
I'm not sure what software compatibility is like for the PPC. Open source software should theoretically work on it if you compile from source. But as for proprietary apps like go I'd imagine your probably going to be out of luck more often than not.

I think it is really stretching it to compare the Cell CPU with the kind of PPC architecture that was used in the PPC CPUs used in the Apple's.
I think Handy's right. Apple's computers used the PowerPC architecture. Sony's PS3 uses the Power architecture. While the PowerPC architecture was derived from the Power architecture, they're not exactly the same thing.

[handy]

They are expensive PCs, nothing more.
If your looking to run Linux you can build an identical system for 1/3rd of the price of a Mac Pro.

But you can buy a G5 for peanuts, so your argument is not quite appropriate to the OPs question.

He wants an Apple; he wants a cheap Apple that performs well.

This is what we are trying to help him with.

[Exodist]

But you can buy a G5 for peanuts, so your argument is not quite appropriate to the OPs question.

He wants an Apple; he wants a cheap Apple that performs well. This is what we are trying to help him with.
I had a brain fart while tending to my daughter.. I edited the post to clear up what I ment to say.

[Frak]

Had Apple not ditched PPC which pretty much spelt it's doom on the desktop computer market, I wonder what 64 bit PPC would have compared to x86_64.

G5 is 64-bit only.


I'm not sure what software compatibility is like for the PPC. Open source software should theoretically work on it if you compile from source. But as for proprietary apps like go I'd imagine your probably going to be out of luck more often than not.

Yeah, no flash. To me, that only meant no flash games. I just used some greasemonkey scripts to watch youtube videos through MPlayer. Everything else works just fine. Also, make sure you either buy a PowerMac with an ATi card, or buy a Mac version of an ATi card. Since AMD opened the drivers, ATi support on the Power models is superb.

EDIT
You can get flash through OS X, so you'll be fine.

[blueshiftoverwatch]

G5 is 64-bit only.
Oh, I didn't know that. What you said before was that PowerPC was better than x86. Which made me assume that since the G5 was the last PowerPC processor (that I'm aware of) it never made the jump from 32 to 64 bit. How would a G5 and an x86_64 processor clocked at the same speed perform against each other?

[Exodist]

Oh, I didn't know that. What you said before was that PowerPC was better than x86. Which made me assume that since the G5 was the last PowerPC processor (that I'm aware of) it never made the jump from 32 to 64 bit. How would a G5 and an x86_64 processor clocked at the same speed perform against each other?
Cant really compare clock per clock. To much different in the architecture.

From what I can say tho in comparison that my G4 1Ghz runs about the same as a 32bit Sempron 1.5Ghz.

But I got no G5 experience tho.. :(

[Frak]

Oh, I didn't know that. What you said before was that PowerPC was better than x86. Which made me assume that since the G5 was the last PowerPC processor (that I'm aware of) it never made the jump from 32 to 64 bit. How would a G5 and an x86_64 processor clocked at the same speed perform against each other?
I don't know. I think the G5 would still win, based on AltiVec, still.

[handy]

My wife has a G4 Powerbook, (it was mine originally but I very quickly became bored with OS X) I look forward to her upgrading to a later model so I can get my grubby little hands back on it & run Arch on the thing.

It will fly with Arch compared to the way it runs now. :)

[yester64]

My wife has a G4 Powerbook, (it was mine originally but I very quickly became bored with OS X) I look forward to her upgrading to a later model so I can get my grubby little hands back on it & run Arch on the thing.

It will fly with Arch compared to the way it runs now. :)

So many post, so its hard to answer really.
But in essence it is not a bad idea to look into a G5 after all.
Arch seems to be the distro to check out for this machine. I checked that.
@handy is there anything what might not work in comparison to the intel version under arch?

Other than that, it sound nice. If of course i see a good offer for an intel, i might go with that. But i am pretty sure that the price for a G5 is lower. Just an assumption.

[steelcap]

I just aquired a retired Power Mac G5 a few weeks ago from work. I'm keeping OSX (Leopard) on it for a month before I play with Linux on it, but I have to say it's pretty damn snappy for a 4 year old machine. Plus it's probably the most beautiful case any computer ever had.

[handy]

I can't really answer your question as far as what may not be available under Arch PPC, as I have never used it.

On their site that I previously linked to:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/

there are links for their repo's, so you can have a look, search for whatever software may be critical to your decision Intel/PPC?

This is a link to the appropriate Arch sub-forum for questions on PPC:

http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=35

I will just warn you to not ask questions that would have an obvious alternate supply of a solution. The Arch forum is not quite as tolerant as the Ubuntu forum in that regard. But please don't let that put you off, it is still a great forum, they just expect you to think before you post a question. :)

Recent Arch PPC package updates are listed here:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/packages/search/?sort=-last_update

The package repo's Core, Extra, Testing, are on the Arch PPC main page' right hand side, down a little, so you can search them for things of import. If what you need is not available then you will probably be best served spending the extra on an Intel Mac.

Happy hunting. ;)

[yester64]

I can't really answer your question as far as what may not be available under Arch PPC, as I have never used it.

On their site that I previously linked to:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/

there are links for their repo's, so you can have a look, search for whatever software may be critical to your decision Intel/PPC?

This is a link to the appropriate Arch sub-forum for questions on PPC:

http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewforum.php?id=35

I will just warn you to not ask questions that would have an obvious alternate supply of a solution. The Arch forum is not quite as tolerant as the Ubuntu forum in that regard. But please don't let that put you off, it is still a great forum, they just expect you to think before you post a question. :)

Recent Arch PPC package updates are listed here:

http://www.archlinuxppc.org/packages/search/?sort=-last_update

The package repo's Core, Extra, Testing, are on the Arch PPC main page' right hand side, down a little, so you can search them for things of import. If what you need is not available then you will probably be best served spending the extra on an Intel Mac.

Happy hunting. ;)

Actually, i seen that there is Ubuntu 9.10 for PPC. It seems to be community driven and not officially.
So there is another alternative.
I have crossread the page a little on arch. It seems you have to compile a little more since it is mainly no gui.
Not sure if i am ready for it now, but i do consider it and it is on my list.
The main thing is, that there are some distro available for ppc which is nice. So you don't get stuck.

[Frak]

Actually, i seen that there is Ubuntu 9.10 for PPC. It seems to be community driven and not officially.
So there is another alternative.
I have crossread the page a little on arch. It seems you have to compile a little more since it is mainly no gui.
Not sure if i am ready for it now, but i do consider it and it is on my list.
The main thing is, that there are some distro available for ppc which is nice. So you don't get stuck.
Use Fedora, OpenSuse, or Arch, who have official versions of PPC. Ubuntu is TERRIBLE on PowerPC.

[handy]

@yester64: Arch isn't hard to install provided that you follow their installation guides; Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide) for Intel/AMD, & the Install Arch Linux PPC (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Install_Arch_Linux_PPC), following the PPC guide just as likely sends you to the Beginners Guide for certain sections.

The Beginners Guide looks like a huge long document, which scares some people off, what you have to understand is that it is extremely well written, & covers virtually all possibilities.

When you actually use it, it skips you through most of it. E.g. you don't have to go through the installation of Gnome, KDE, Xfce, or the installation of both nVidia & ATi GPU drivers, or all of the wireless NICs, I expect you know what I mean...

Using Arch as opposed to the other official PPC distro's really should give you a performance advantage, & possibly a space advantage re, the amount of HDD space used, though there are certainly ways around that with the other distro's I'm sure.

All very stimulating, this research & preparation for a new thing, the older we get, the fewer & further apart new things become... :lolflag:

Makes we want to go & find an old G5 dual CPU job & build an Arch monster in it myself. :)