I have concluded that newbie distros should have as few apps installed as possible.

[Pogeymanz]

Ubuntu does a pretty good job of this, but its leading competitor, PCLinuxOS does a rather poor job, IMO.

First of all, don't even post here saying that you can un/install whatever you want. I'm talking about Linux newbies who don't even know what apps they want.

I'm sorry, but default apps are very important, which is why every newbie distro should have The Gimp, OpenOffice (The whole damn thing), and Firefox. Those are some of the shining examples of the Open Source world and will make newbies feel less tied to Microsoft.

I'm not saying that they should only include 10 applications or something like that. I'm just saying at most one app per task and not too many that most people wont use.

I just installed PCLOS last night to see how I think my father-in-law would like it compared to Ubuntu. There are about 15 different image viewers (exaggeration), Four file managers (not exaggeration), a bunch of SSH/VNC type tools, news readers, LiveCD creators. The list goes on.

Then, they don't even include OpenOffice. Instead they have just Abiword, surely because they ran out of space on the CD from all the other junk installed.

I used to be mad at Ubuntu for including Ekiga and Cheese(or is it Cheeze?) which I thought were silly, but they do a much better job than PCLOS, IMO.

Hell, even I was intimidated while searching the menus and I consider myself very proficient in the Linux world.

In PCLOS's defense, it is much prettier than Ubuntu, IMO.

[nrs]

Then, they don't even include OpenOffice. Ubuntu's removed Gimp. 1 for 1?

[Pogeymanz]

Ubuntu's removed Gimp. 1 for 1?

Yeah, I was very upset about that when I heard. I really hope they change their minds. I still rather lose Gimp than OpenOffice.

[LowSky]

Sorry but saying this app should be included over this one is very trivial.

In all honesty how often is a Noob going to need a photo editor like Photoshop? They don't so you can save space by not including GIMP

Openoffice is great, but its bloated and ABiword is still better than nothing, heck Abiword is better than MS Worpad any day.

What I will say is people deserve choice. So during the installation, if the user has a good internet connection a window will pop up asking what applications or uses a user will want. This way you get a more customized install and a user get to understand how versatile Ubuntu can be.

[aysiu]

What I will say is people deserve choice. So during the installation, if the user has a good internet connection a window will pop up asking what applications or uses a user will want. This way you get a more customized install and a user get to understand how versatile Ubuntu can be. I'm going to have to disagree. To the uninitiated, AbiWord, OpenOffice, and KWord make about as much sense as gobbledygook 1, gobbledygook 2, and gobbledygook 3. That isn't choice. It's confusion.

[snowpine]

Windows does not ship with Microsoft Office or Photoshop included, yet it is somehow the #1 distro... food for thought!

[ve4cib]

They're removing GIMP but adding PiTiVi according to what I read a while ago. So we're losing a high-end image editor and gaining a fairly simple video editor in the default installation. It's a trade-off, but not an entirely unreasonable one.

I disagree with the OP about needing *all* of OO.org installed by default. How many people really use the equation editor? Or OODraw? Having OOWord, OOCalc, and OOPresentation is sufficient for the standard array of office tasks (documents, spreadsheets, and slideshows), and it saves room on the CD for other things (like all the other applications one might want pre-installed).

I think Ubuntu did the right thing in stripping down OO for the CD. Everything else is still there on the Repos if you really need it. Having an option during installation to "Install additional OpenOffice Components" would be great though. Heck, having the ability to check off what applications you want to install during installation in a category-style view would be perfect. Check out how Fedora does their installation and you'll see exactly what I mean.

[Pogeymanz]

I'm going to have to disagree. To the uninitiated, AbiWord, OpenOffice, and KWord make about as much sense as gobbledygook 1, gobbledygook 2, and gobbledygook 3. That isn't choice. It's confusion.

Agreed. Which is why I was so upset with PCLOS having so many redundant apps.

I'll have to take back my statement about including all of OOo. It really should just be Writer, Calc, Impress.

I still think The GIMP should stay though.

[aysiu]

Windows does not ship with Microsoft Office or Photoshop included, yet it is somehow the #1 distro... food for thought!
Windows isn't a distro. It's #1 because it's preinstalled on the vast majority of home computers.

You have to go out of your way to find Linux preinstalled options. They are not offered by major OEMs in every country. And when they are, the options are severely limited, often not well-configured (Broadcom wireless, anyone?), and badly advertised (look at Dell recommending Windows 7 right on the Ubuntu page).

[pwnst*r]

I'm going to have to disagree. To the uninitiated, AbiWord, OpenOffice, and KWord make about as much sense as gobbledygook 1, gobbledygook 2, and gobbledygook 3. That isn't choice. It's confusion.

^this.

[snowpine]

Windows isn't a distro. It's #1 because it's preinstalled on the vast majority of home computers.

You have to go out of your way to find Linux preinstalled options. They are not offered by major OEMs in every country. And when they are, the options are severely limited, often not well-configured (Broadcom wireless, anyone?), and badly advertised (look at Dell recommending Windows 7 right on the Ubuntu page).

:) You know I agree with you. I'm just trying to make the point that there's no direct correlation between the success of an operating system and how many/few applications come pre-installed. Ubuntu is not going to leap to a 99% market share simply by keeping GIMP. ;)

[aysiu]

:) You know I agree with you. I'm just trying to make the point that there's no direct correlation between the success of an operating system and how many/few applications come pre-installed. Ubuntu is not going to leap to a 99% market share simply by keeping GIMP. ;)
To get the kind of the market penetration Windows has, Linux has to have a seriously well-configured and properly marketed preinstalled option... and even then, there's no guarantee of success (do you really think Microsoft will take a challenge lying down?).

So, yes, you're right. Bug #1 will not be solved by switching out default apps.

But in the meantime, there are still ex-Windows power users who are trying Ubuntu and/or Linux in general for the first time, and that first impression will make a big difference to them. Even though they are not like the vast majority of computer users, they are the most likely demographic right now to be considering Linux for desktop, laptop, or netbook.

[supermelon928]

every newbie distro should have The Gimp


I still think The GIMP should stay though.

I smell an inside-joke Pulp Fiction reference.