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hoppipolla
December 14th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I was just watching this video of an interview with him - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4y6p6xdmw ... I have no idea when it was made, and he is just very awesome! Friendly and collected and intelligent and just, I mean I knew it already but.. yeah this thread is just dedicated to Mr Torvalds I guess! :D


Hoppi!

HappinessNow
December 14th, 2009, 02:30 PM
I was just watching this video of an interview with him - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJ4y6p6xdmw ... I have no idea when it was made, and he is just very awesome! Friendly and collected and intelligent and just, I mean I knew it already but.. yeah this thread is just dedicated to Mr Torvalds I guess! :D


Hoppi!It appears your not alone:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1179707&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=987917&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=941591&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=953999&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=349414&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=861242&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=906601&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=872572&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=877005&highlight=Linus+Torvalds

cascade9
December 14th, 2009, 02:33 PM
Watch out hoppipolla! =;

His wife (Tove) is a 6-times finnish karate champion. :biggrin:

pwnst*r
December 14th, 2009, 02:38 PM
Watch out hoppipolla! =;

His wife (Tove) is a 6-times finnish karate champion. :biggrin:

lol, back in the day perhaps

http://yle.fi/linna98/photos/photo46_i.jpg

hoppipolla
December 14th, 2009, 02:43 PM
Watch out hoppipolla! =;

His wife (Tove) is a 6-times finnish karate champion. :biggrin:

rofl! no that's ok I am straight, Linus is safe! xD

NoaHall
December 14th, 2009, 04:57 PM
rofl! no that's ok I am straight, Linus is safe! xD

I so knew it was you who made this thread before I saw the first post.

pwnst*r
December 14th, 2009, 05:06 PM
what gave it away? ^_^

hoppipolla
December 14th, 2009, 05:08 PM
what gave it away? ^_^

that is so weird I was going to post the exact same thing! Strange :)

perce
December 14th, 2009, 05:21 PM
lol, back in the day perhaps


Maybe, but not by much probably: they're under 40 anyway.

nmccrina
December 14th, 2009, 05:38 PM
I agree, he's my hero! :D

I love his C++ rant:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918

clanky
December 14th, 2009, 05:50 PM
I like Linus, he always comes across like a really nice guy in interviews like this, it's just a same that he looks like such a geek. :)

hoppipolla
December 14th, 2009, 05:53 PM
I agree, he's my hero! :D

I love his C++ rant:
http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.version-control.git/57643/focus=57918

haha that was funny :)

To be honest as I'm not a coder I don't really know much about stuff like that, I just know that I've found the Linux kernel to perform very, very well :)


I like Linus, he always comes across like a really nice guy in interviews like this, it's just a same that he looks like such a geek. :)

aww I don't think he does! I think he looks and sounds like a very reasonable fellow :)

RiceMonster
December 14th, 2009, 05:54 PM
I always enjoy reading his rants.

pwnst*r
December 14th, 2009, 06:13 PM
man crush alert.

Alex Libman
December 14th, 2009, 06:19 PM
Yes, but in my mind all his greatness is overshadowed by one major mistake:

Releasing Linux under a restrictive license (GPL) instead of a permissive one (ex. BSD). If he had done the latter, Microsoft would be down to 20% market share and the software industry would have been 5 years ahead by now...

perce
December 14th, 2009, 06:22 PM
Yes, but in my mind all his greatness is overshadowed by one major mistake:

Releasing Linux under a restrictive license (GPL) instead of a permissive one (ex. BSD). If he had done the latter, Microsoft would be down to 20% market share and the software industry would have been 5 years ahead by now...

Yeah, Linux would have had the same success as BSD

Pogeymanz
December 14th, 2009, 06:46 PM
yeah, linux would have had the same success as bsd

zing!

hoppipolla
December 14th, 2009, 07:00 PM
Yeah, Linux would have had the same success as BSD

yeah that's what I was thinking... people do sometimes say BSD is really good but... if that were true then why aren't we all using it? Why is Linux the biggest open source kernel in the world?

I think tis nonsense! :)

RiceMonster
December 14th, 2009, 07:03 PM
yeah that's what I was thinking... people do sometimes say BSD is really good but... if that were true then why aren't we all using it? Why is Linux the biggest open source kernel in the world?

I think tis nonsense! :)

With this logic, you're saying you think Windows is the best operating system in the world.

Alex Libman
December 14th, 2009, 07:32 PM
Yeah, Linux would have had the same success as BSD

(I'm assuming you mean BSD the family of operating systems, not the license.) That is completely irrational - the main reason why BSD did so poorly is competition from Linux, which was open sourced several years sooner.

Furthermore, BSD actually has 100x Linux's market share if you count the bits of its code that were borrowed by countless companies - Google, Apple, Nokia, Sony, HP, and even Microsoft!

I will agree that the Linux kernel surpassed *BSD several years ago, but the inferiority of the GPL license remains a major issue.


(EDIT: s/could/count)

u.b.u.n.t.u
December 14th, 2009, 08:34 PM
I have no idea when it was made

18 May 2001?

Linus Torvalds is a richer man than Bill Gates!

Simon17
December 15th, 2009, 01:23 AM
Yeah, Linux would have had the same success as BSD

OS X is actually doing quite well.

kk0sse54
December 15th, 2009, 01:29 AM
OS X is actually doing quite well.

OS X isn't *BSD

NoaHall
December 15th, 2009, 01:31 AM
OS X isn't *BSD

Or rather, it's not released under the BSD license.

japju
December 15th, 2009, 01:39 AM
Oh dear, not only do we have programming language or operating system wars, we even have to have license wars. I'd think it is an absolute right of the original author(s) to decide whatever license they choose to use to release there software. It is theirs after all.



Furthermore, BSD actually has 100x Linux's market share if you could the bits of its code that were borrowed by countless companies - Google, Apple, Nokia, Sony, HP, and even Microsoft!

I am not aware of any products based on BSD Unix operating system by any of the companies you list. Maybe time to do a fact check. Some minor utilities might be around. Many of the ideas of the various BSD Unix version still live, but the code no.

Google uses customised Linux. The phrase "you could [sic. count?] the bits of its code that were borrowed" is meaningless. Just see SCO litigation and big statements without anything behind them.


I will agree that the Linux kernel surpassed *BSD several years ago, but the inferiority of the GPL license remains a major issue.

Care to explain what you mean by "inferiority" of GPL?

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 02:02 AM
Care to explain what you mean by "inferiority" of GPL?

in a nutshell, as i understand it...

the GPL license puts end-user freedom above all else.

the BSD license puts developer freedom above all else .

there is no requirement to "Freely pass onto others what was Freely given to me" if one contributes to or works on (or puts in a box and sells) something BSD-licensed.

incidentally, it means something under the BSD license will always have the potential to be more visible to sheep down the road. turning something Free into something proprietary means you can charge 'per copy' to distribute -- like OS X. (yes, i know OS X != *BSD... we are talking about things developed under that license in general, not any specific precursor operating system.)

the GPL is inferior because GPL'd software is less visible to people that prefer to purchase shiny boxes in stores with computer software in them, i guess, is what he meant... lol.

needless to say, i myself like the GPL for an operating system and other core components we all rely on.

for a video game or a toy or one more out of dozens of web browsers available or something else i really don't give a damn about? i have no objections to the BSD license and BSD-like licenses.

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 02:02 AM
With this logic, you're saying you think Windows is the best operating system in the world.
Kind of but its not really the same thing. I guess what I really mean is Linux gets much more support than BSD in general, surely we would see at least SOME popular distros base themselves off of BSD?

and Windows I feel is the most popular because its still the most friendly OS. Support is an issue yes but Id like to think the open source world is a little more welcoming than the OS market as a whole!

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 02:06 AM
something under the BSD license will always have the potential to be more visible to sheep down the road. turning something Free into something proprietary means you can charge 'per copy' to distribute -- like OS X.

before anyone jumps on me for that, i'd like to point out:

though all squares are rectangles, not all rectangles are squares.

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 02:09 AM
and Windows I feel is the most popular because its still the most friendly OS. Support is an issue yes but Id like to think the open source world is a little more welcoming than the OS market as a whole!

'friendly' is a very abstract word.

i would have said 'what people are used to and have no reason to change that they feel is compelling enough to warrant the investment in time/money/effort'.

the same reason the US still measures distance in miles, and even many other places in the world think of beer not in metric terms. the same reason folks purchase eggs by the 'dozen' and don't purchase a single 'decaegg'....

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 02:37 AM
'friendly' is a very abstract word.

i would have said 'what people are used to and have no reason to change that they feel is compelling enough to warrant the investment in time/money/effort'.

the same reason the US still measures distance in miles, and even many other places in the world think of beer not in metric terms. the same reason folks purchase eggs by the 'dozen' and don't purchase a single 'decaegg'....

beer is in pints! ^_^ hehe

and what's wrong with dozens? ._.

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 02:58 AM
and what's wrong with dozens? ._.

exactly.

for the vast majority of people, using pints and Microsoft Windows and dozens is simply how things are done.

if i don't realize it is broken, then i am probably not going to do anything to fix it.

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 03:47 AM
exactly.

for the vast majority of people, using pints and Microsoft Windows and dozens is simply how things are done.

if i don't realize it is broken, then i am probably not going to do anything to fix it.

lol sometimes it's just a more convenient amount.

For example a "pint" of lager sounds cooler than however many litres, or even a "glass" of lager. Pint is just a cool word.

And a dozen... I dunno... doesn't much matter does it, it's just 12 instead of 10! lol

Wildly off-topic but hey there we go ^_^


As for BSD... so why ISN'T it more popular then? I mean, even if it was equal to Linux but less supported, in the open source world you'd still imagine it would get a LOT of love from many distros who value it's advantages. Surely?

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 04:12 AM
As for BSD... so why ISN'T it more popular then? I mean, even if it was equal to Linux but less supported, in the open source world you'd still imagine it would get a LOT of love from many distros who value it's advantages. Surely?

the license, or the closely related family of operating systems?

nrs
December 15th, 2009, 05:08 AM
Yes, but in my mind all his greatness is overshadowed by one major mistake:

Releasing Linux under a restrictive license (GPL) instead of a permissive one (ex. BSD). If he had done the latter, Microsoft would be down to 20% market share and the software industry would have been 5 years ahead by now...
That's a pretty bold claim. Especially considering there are a few notable examples of large projects with non-copyleft licenses getting shafted and then later switching to copyleft. Wine comes to mind. A lot of companies don't even respect the GPL when they're legally obligated, you'd think they'd be more inclined to support it if they weren't? That's like saying "I wouldn't steal if it wasn't a crime!"

The GPL is fair, and it works. It basically grants you every freedom, except the freedom to steal. Most civilized societies don't respect that one either. ;-)

The_Pirate_King
December 15th, 2009, 05:28 AM
I agree with you, he seems like an awesome [but very modest] dude.

Although I must admit, Charlie Rose comparing him to Thomas Edison pissed me off. Thomas Edison was just as much a greedy businessman as Rockefeller and a crappy scientist to boot.
If anything, Linus Torvalds is more of a Nikola Tesla.

mamamia88
December 15th, 2009, 05:34 AM
cool i needed a new book to read so i ordered his autobiography

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 06:29 AM
cool i needed a new book to read so i ordered his autobiography

this book (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathedral_and_the_bazaar) is also kind of a big deal, if you want to start lining books up for a Free Software Nerdfest.

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 08:05 AM
the license, or the closely related family of operating systems?

the family of OSs I guess but... isn't there also a single kernel referred to as BSD... I'm confused! hehe :)


cool i needed a new book to read so i ordered his autobiography

I think that one's a few years old now though!

Is there a new book by him at all? o.O

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 10:39 AM
Did I just spend over an hour replying to have my post SILENTLY DELETED?!

If so, that will be just another drop in the bucket of evidence that Linux is a communist cult that is closed to rational debate, and that all freedom-loving people should avoid it while they still have a choice!

I could have bought 3 months worth of Microsoft software if I had spent just that hour writing proprietary software instead!
We will have this one deleted as well! :lol:

nrs
December 15th, 2009, 10:39 AM
Did I just spend over an hour replying to have my post SILENTLY DELETED?!

If so, that will be just another drop in the bucket of evidence that Linux is a communist cult that is closed to rational debate, and that all freedom-loving people should avoid it while they still have a choice!

I could have bought 3 months worth of Microsoft software if I had spent just that hour writing proprietary software instead!

I'm actually extremely happy that you've revealed yourself as a troll. I was concerned for a while that you might actually believe the things you said you did. :D

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 10:41 AM
I am not a troll, I am a human being that disagrees with you, who you are trying to stifle by force because you cannot compete with the truthfulness of my ideas in a fair debate.

nrs
December 15th, 2009, 10:48 AM
I am not a troll, I am a human being that disagrees with you, who you are trying to stifle by force because you cannot compete with the truthfulness of my ideas in a fair debate.
I'm not doing anything to stifle you: I didn't delete your post(s), and I didn't report you. Poor you though.

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 10:53 AM
I am not a troll, I am a human being that disagrees with you, who you are trying to stifle by force because you cannot compete with the truthfulness of my ideas in a fair debate.

I just wonder how long its gonna take for you to get banned...

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 11:34 AM
The sooner the better. Why the hell would I want to stay on a forum where any of my posts can be deleted at any time?!

I've tried to compromise (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/compromise.html), but this incident is the very last straw. Linux and all other GPL software is now dead to me! The inconvenience of using the more limited selection of permissively licensed software (or even the price of proprietary software) is a very small price to pay not to deal with intellectually dishonest thugs like yourselves!

keplerspeed
December 15th, 2009, 11:44 AM
I thought this was a thread about "Linus Torvalds is so cool! ^_^"....

Linus is cool. I respect his work ethic, motivation and optimism. Some of the small decisions that he has made have had massive influences on more than just the computer world. So never, ever believe that something is too small to matter.

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 12:09 PM
The sooner the better. Why the hell would I want to stay on a forum where any of my posts can be deleted at any time?!

I've tried to compromise (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/compromise.html), but this incident is the very last straw. Linux and all other GPL software is now dead to me! The inconvenience of using the more limited selection of permissively licensed software (or even the price of proprietary software) is a very small price to pay not to deal with intellectually dishonest thugs like yourselves!
Now I hope no one bans you. Your funny... LMAO

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 12:17 PM
The sooner the better. Why the hell would I want to stay on a forum where any of my posts can be deleted at any time?!

I've tried to compromise (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/compromise.html), but this incident is the very last straw. Linux and all other GPL software is now dead to me! The inconvenience of using the more limited selection of permissively licensed software (or even the price of proprietary software) is a very small price to pay not to deal with intellectually dishonest thugs like yourselves!
Yeah with reference to what keplerspeed said, how can anything in a thread simply talking about the coolness of Linus Torvalds be THIS big of a deal and worthy of deletion? o.O

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 12:19 PM
I thought this was a thread about "Linus Torvalds is so cool! ^_^"....

I created a different thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1355497) and wanted to reply there instead, but the mods locked it - blame them.



Now I hope no one bans you. Your funny... LMAO

I'm also very serious.

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 12:26 PM
I created a different thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1355497) and wanted to reply there instead, but the mods locked it - blame them.
was it bashing Linus or something? Coz if so thats why - it counts as a personal attack. Just say it in a balanced, constructive way if you have a criticism and dont bash an individual.

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 12:30 PM
I don't bash people, I bash harmful ideas -- in that case claims that restrictive licenses like GPL are somehow more "free" than permissive licenses like BSD -- but apparently that's a taboo subject in this commune... :frown:

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 12:34 PM
I created a different thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1355497) and wanted to reply there instead, but the mods locked it - blame them.

I'm also very serious.

Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion. That includes an opinion of your opinion. You got into a bashing fight with everyone who didnt share your idea. If you dont wish to have your post deleted then please understand that "THIS" community is made of up users who live by certain philosophy's and if you bring an attitude here to go against everything "WE" believe in. Then your just simply here to cause trouble. But if you wish to have a civil conversation and respect other users post and as a person. Does not mean you have to agree. Your entitled to your own opinion. Then they including myself will respect you.

Hope you understand.

hoppipolla
December 15th, 2009, 12:34 PM
I don't bash people, I bash harmful ideas -- in that case claims that restrictive licenses like GPL are somehow more "free" than permissive licenses like BSD -- but apparently that's a taboo subject in this commune... :frown:
Nah course not just dont "bash" at all! :)

User3k
December 15th, 2009, 12:39 PM
On topic.

Every interview I have seen with Linus Torvalds is great. Even though he never saw how far things would go with Linux, I am grateful that he did this all and made it available to all of us.

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 12:51 PM
Everyone is entitled to their own personal opinion. That includes an opinion of your opinion. You got into a bashing fight with everyone who didnt share your idea. If you dont wish to have your post deleted then please understand that "THIS" community is made of up users who live by certain philosophy's and if you bring an attitude here to go against everything "WE" believe in. Then your just simply here to cause trouble. But if you wish to have a civil conversation and respect other users post and as a person. Does not mean you have to agree. Your entitled to your own opinion. Then they including myself will respect you.

You are acting as if advocates of permissive licenses initiated aggression against you, and not the other way around! Enforcement of GPL licenses is a growing issue in the software industry, with anyone who's ever touched both a GPL and a proprietary codebase now in fear of government force being used against them!

And, like I mentioned on the locked thread, this is an important philosophical and ethical issue that needs to be discussed, and is very relevant to the choices many Ubuntu users must make in deciding how to license their work. Advocates of GPL have been quite forceful in promoting their ideas over the past couple of decades, but when someone disagrees you react with censorship instead!

I'm asking that the mods undelete my posts, unlock my thread, and move all related posts from this thread there instead. Then the constructiveness level of this conversation can begin to improve...

nrs
December 15th, 2009, 01:02 PM
You are acting as if advocates of permissive licenses initiated aggression against you, and not the other way around! Enforcement of GPL licenses is a growing issue in the software industry, with anyone who's ever touched both a GPL and a proprietary codebase now in fear of government force being used against them!

Then. They. Should. Not. Steal. It's a simple as that. You're not going to find many people who feel sympathetic towards thieves.

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 01:07 PM
You are acting as if advocates of permissive licenses initiated aggression against you, and not the other way around! Enforcement of GPL licenses is a growing issue in the software industry, with anyone who's ever touched both a GPL and a proprietary codebase now in fear of government force being used against them!

And, like I mentioned on the locked thread, this is an important philosophical and ethical issue that needs to be discussed, and is very relevant to the choices many Ubuntu users must make in deciding how to license their work. Advocates of GPL have been quite forceful in promoting their ideas over the past couple of decades, but when someone disagrees you react with censorship instead!

I'm asking that the mods undelete my posts, unlock my thread, and move all related posts from this thread there instead. Then the constructiveness level of this conversation can begin to improve...

I understand. But if I place my own code under the GPL or choose to use GPL 'd code. Then I am happy for the government wishes to assist.

On the same pretense if I create code for a program that is proprietary and the government wishes to back me also when a large bully corperation trys to steel my code away. Its the same thing.

Alex you are not forced to use GPL'd code. Its your option. But if I make a program and I put it under the GPL and then you grab it up and try to license it away as your own. Expect legal action.

Thats how it works, its the same on both ends no matter what license something is placed under.

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 01:24 PM
Then. They. Should. Not. Steal. It's a simple as that. You're not going to find many people who feel sympathetic towards thieves.

Taxation is theft (and that's how a large chunk of "free" software is financed - through government-funded universities), but copying of 1's and 0's is not. We libertarians / AnCaps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarianism_and_intellectual_property#Anarcho-capitalist_views) believe very strongly in property rights, but there's no such thing as the Natural Right to initiate aggression against someone who copies or extends an idea that originated from you!



[...] But if I make a program and I put it under the GPL and then you grab it up and try to license it away as your own. Expect legal action.

Then you are no less violent than Microsoft, and I seriously doubt you write better software.



Thats how it works, its the same on both ends no matter what license something is placed under.

That's not true - I release everything I write to the public domain. You can fork it however you wish.

Exodist
December 15th, 2009, 01:27 PM
Then you are no less violent than Microsoft, and I seriously doubt you write better software.

Now see, we try to debate a license and you make personal attacks. This is why your post get deleted.


I am done with this..

earthpigg
December 15th, 2009, 01:30 PM
the family of OSs I guess but... isn't there also a single kernel referred to as BSD... I'm confused! hehe :)


there was a decade or so ago, when UC Berkeley developed BSD. now-a-days, there are three significant forks: FreeBSD, OpenBSD, and NetBSD. one focuses on being bleeding edge, one on portability, and one on security. i can't keep track of which is which.

and none of them are developed as just a kernel (which is how linux is developed) - they work on the package manager and filesystem and a whole host of "basic" software all at once.

unlike Linux, where we have Linus and his buddies working on the kernel... and Stallman and his GNU buddies working on common command line software... and then the X guys and their xorg, and then different groups working on different graphical interfaces, and other guys working on competing package managers, etc etc etc. then different folks come along and smoosh it all together in the way they think is best.

*BSD generally supports less hardware, but what it does support it supports 100%. as i understand it, they do not tolerate software regressions. if it worked in version X, it will work in version X+1 - or they will not accept that patch.

one could say that:

Linux represents Evolution and Chaos.

*BSD represents Intelligent Design and Order.

or

Linux software is a Free Market economy.

Each of the different BSDs is a different Command economy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_economy).



all of the above is subject to the fact that it is off the top of my head and subject to error.

Alex Libman
December 15th, 2009, 01:37 PM
Now see, we try to debate a license and you make personal attacks. This is why your post get deleted.

All I did is expressed doubt that you write better software than a company that has to sell its software based on its merits, is severely handicapped by government taxation and regulation, is subject to endless anti-capitalist propaganda and jealousy, and still manages to have the yearly revenue of $58 billion. If you can prove otherwise, then I'll owe you an apology.

overdrank
December 15th, 2009, 01:46 PM
Thread has drifter off topic. Thread closed