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Rumor
February 24th, 2006, 03:06 AM
I posted this question in the "What do you like to read" thread, but it got lost in the shuffle of pages, and I left a few points off.

I sometimes wonder if the "advent" of computers, video games, 500+ TV stations available via cable and whatnot will have an impact on reading.

I see it in my own kids, so it makes me wonder. My wife and I grew up reading. We got 3 TV stations, there were no video games, and the only computer I had ever seen filled an entire room in my high school. For me, the Hardy Boys books were entertainment, escape, a great way to pass a rainy afternoon when you couldn't go out and play. I recall reading the Dune trilogy over a Christmas break and loving every minute of it.

My wife and I were drawn together partly because of our love of reading. We read to our kids when they were small. But they rarely read anything now. To be fair, my son is a special needs child, so I can't really count him in my 'facts' but my daughter (college age) would far rather watch TV or surf the web or listen to music than read a book. My kids grew up with one or more computers in the house at all times and cable TV and video games.

These days, who needs books? Turn on the TV, boot up the PC and browse the web, fire up the Playstation. Books? What are those? How do you turn them on? Where do you plug them in? Books don't do anything. They don't light up or buzz or beep or do anything entertaining.

I just wonder if the printed novel with actual pages you can turn is going to become extinct because of "glitzier" forms of entertainment and escape? I despair for a world that does not know the joy of sitting under a tree on a lazy summer afternoon with a good book.

Iandefor
February 24th, 2006, 03:11 AM
I notice much the same thing happening. I just have to compare how many hours I spent reading before I got my computer fixed to how many hours I read after getting it fixed.

Sometimes, I wonder how long it will take before the world starts looking a lot like Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451.

rfruth
February 24th, 2006, 03:22 AM
The strange thing (20 years ago) a computer was a tool, it came with an assembler (CP-M 4 me) and while you hoped not to need it was like a spare tire in a car, sooner or later ya needed to know op codes ...

Protostar
February 24th, 2006, 04:14 AM
I don't read alot of books, but I do read alot of online articles (news, reviews, etc.). Does that count? Only books I really read are technical manuals (Upgrading and Repairing PC series and its spinoffs) and the school/local newspapers.

darkoptix
February 24th, 2006, 06:52 AM
I'm a collage student right now, and I totally agree with your daughter, I would much rather listen to music, or go on a computer than read a book.
I grew up in a world with dialup internet, only 2 channels on tv, and no video game system. It was not like I didn't read as a child because I use to love reading. Now It just doesn't grab my attenetion anymore. I get bored and find myself go putting on music, and doing anything but reading. I don't find books as a form of entertainment anymore, but more of a source of information.
However I may be a strange person because I think TV sucks. There is never anything on, so I don't watch it. When I moved out from my parents house, I made the choice to have no TV, but have internet instead.

Protostar
February 24th, 2006, 07:08 AM
However I may be a strange person because I think TV sucks. There is never anything on, so I don't watch it. When I moved out from my parents house, I made the choice to have no TV, but have internet instead.

I don't think you're strange as I feel the exact same way. Everything on TV is trash, from the dim witted reality shows to the biased propaganda from the "news" stations. Everything I need entertainment wise is online.

jrib
February 24th, 2006, 07:10 AM
I'm a collage student right now
Me too, I need one of those shirts :P

On topic, I completely agree with you Rumor. Up until this past summer, I used to waste tons of time watching tv. I decided to get rid of the tv altogether and now just read instead. To tell you the truth, I enjoy it more. I get to choose the commercial breaks, there are a lot more channels, and each show is made for me. But not to get into how much I prefer rading now, I think the reason so many young kids today are turned off by reading is that they get used to it[watching tv] when they are really young.

Once you are used to something, it is really difficult to change your habits. Kids can watch tv and be entertained by it before they can read. So they get used to it. Not to mention the enormous amounts of money that tv generates... as well as the fact the tv is often used by parents as a replacement for spending time with kids (I don't have any solid statistics, but let me know if you disagree with this). Then a lot of kids will only get introduced to reading through school, so it becomes viewed as work, as something being forced upon them by someone else. And until you find that one book that you get hooked on and start to look for more, you continue with your normal habits.

TV isn't a bad thing, it's great in moderation. Similarly, reading fantasy books every waking hour of the day probably isn't that great either. But I definitely think that reading is getting undervalued in society today, and too many people are spending too much time watching TV. And with TV, you can lump in video games

These are thoughts as they came into my head so if you understood a word of it, congratulations, because I will probably have no idea what I meant tomorrow morning :)

Rob2687
February 24th, 2006, 07:18 AM
Don't forget about those cell phones and Ipods and what not.
Every kid in the world has one these days. It's just too easy to get sucked into whatever gadget or gizmo or trend they try to sell you these days.
Much easier to stare a a screen and absorb than actively read and understand the words on a page. The result is a bunch of mindless zombies at the command of your friendly neighbourhood multi-billion corporations. Plus a bunch of hyper-active kids who get bored if they aren't being spoon fed entertainment at every waking minute.

BoyOfDestiny
February 24th, 2006, 07:26 AM
Well, I love reading articles on the web. Usually groklaw, arstechnica, and richard stallman's page provide "educational" reading.

As for books, I enjoy reading them in bed. Sometimes stories in foreign languages to practive my spanish (and attempt to learn french). I like greek mythology, the occasional mysteries, etc.

Paranoia ;) (sorry, I hate DRM):
I can see the value of books, especially in the digital age, considering how certain folk want to lock down text.

I've even heard rumours about RFID chips being placed in books (the only practical thing may be tracking stolen texts)... Anyway, a little time in the microwave would solve that problem...

Books are treasures.

Qrk
February 24th, 2006, 07:46 AM
Growing up, we never had a television. (just a movie player, VHS without a tuner)
So I never saw much TV, except on vacations where my parents would have to un-glue us away from the Hotel's cable.

But I read a ton, and I still do. In fact, I learned almost all of my vocabulary from books, so much that people could rarely tell what I was saying (can you speak phonetically??)

But now I still haven't bought my own television. I am happy that I didn't waste my childhood in front of the tellie. Now that I am older, and have too much free time, I went back to my childhood favorites. I am surprised at my imagination back then, and I still remember scenes from books like I was there. Those books are still good, too.

Iandefor
February 24th, 2006, 07:47 AM
I've even heard rumours about RFID chips being placed in books (the only practical thing may be tracking stolen texts)... Anyway, a little time in the microwave would solve that problem...

Books are treasures. Another practical application would be express checkout at libraries. And, perhaps, monitoring which books are in whose possession.

fuscia
February 24th, 2006, 08:45 AM
if it's any comfort to you, the internet may have brought
back the lost art of correspondence.

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 01:09 PM
I posted this question in the "What do you like to read" thread, but it got lost in the shuffle of pages, and I left a few points off.

I sometimes wonder if the "advent" of computers, video games, 500+ TV stations available via cable and whatnot will have an impact on reading.

Perhaps you're forgetting about how the Harry Potter fad got started?

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 01:32 PM
if it's any comfort to you, the internet may have brought
back the lost art of correspondence.

Indeed. Email was how I courted my wife.

fuscia
February 24th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Indeed. Email was how I courted my wife.
really? how pre-raphaelite!

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 03:03 PM
really? how pre-raphaelite!

Fitting that you'd say that; the pre-Raphaelites are among my wife's favorite artists.

Rumor
February 24th, 2006, 03:33 PM
... as well as the fact the tv is often used by parents as a replacement for spending time with kids (I don't have any solid statistics, but let me know if you disagree with this).

Nope, I don't disagree with you. It is very hard for parents of small children NOT to turn to the "electronic babysitter" for relief now and again. Need to go downstairs and do laundry? Plunk the kid in front of the TV for a few minutes. Also, it is hard for parents to compete with the TV. Going out to play catch with dad just does not hold the same level of interest as this bright flashing screen of moving pictures that makes noise at you.

My kids watched a LOT of TV when they were little, probably more than they ought have. It's easy, when you're in your 40's to look back and see the mistakes you've made. SO I can't be too critical of other parents who have gone the same route :)



Perhaps you're forgetting about how the Harry Potter fad got started?

No, I'm not forgetting it, and it is a good point. I know several kids and adults who bought the new book(s) as soon as they hit the shelves. I thought it a good thing, personally.

I wonder, though, what the long range effects will be on the arts and entertainment. A book stirs the imagination. You have to picture the events in your head rather than having them displayed in front of you where it really takes no thought. Why read the Lord of the Rings trilogy when you can see it displayed? It takes no imagination. I would argue that TV kills the imagination if not for the fact that my daughter is very artistic and creative.

But, I frequently argue myself into a corner like that. :D

fuscia
February 24th, 2006, 03:35 PM
Fitting that you'd say that; the pre-Raphaelites are among my wife's favorite artists.

i actually knew that already. the lady of shalott, herself, told me so in a dream. this is exactly how she appeared to me, in the haze of my torpor...

http://www.illusionsgallery.com/Lady-Shalott-L.jpg

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 03:37 PM
Why read the Lord of the Rings trilogy when you can see it displayed?

Why? Because the movie never tells the whole story. I'll use LOTR as an example: Jackson and his writing team did an excellent job of adapting Tolkien's work, but they still left things out. For example, there was the whole "Scouring of the Shire" sequence at the very end; Saruman wasn't killed at Isengard, but in the Shire after being brought to bay by Frodo and his friends.

Alpha_toxic
February 24th, 2006, 04:14 PM
Why? Because the movie never tells the whole story. I'll use LOTR as an example: Jackson and his writing team did an excellent job of adapting Tolkien's work, but they still left things out. For example, there was the whole "Scouring of the Shire" sequence at the very end; Saruman wasn't killed at Isengard, but in the Shire after being brought to bay by Frodo and his friends.

That's one reason I prefer to read a book than watch a movie. Examples are endless (think "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy", "War of the Worlds", "Solaris"...).
Although I grew up wiht the TV and video games, I allways liked reading. I somehow managed to find time for everything. 2-3 hours football with friends, then 2-3 hours in front of the SEGA, and then 2-3 hours reading "Gateway". Books like "Gateway", the Foundation Series, "The Naked Sun", "The End of Eternity" etc. realy made my day back then.
And about the music: I cannot do allmost anything that involves thinking (reading included) without listening to some music. It's not about the music itself, I just use it as a wall between me and the outside noise. The best music for this I found to be Mike Oldfield, Enigma, some smooth jazz or house (the less words/lyrics/text/singing the better).

Rumor
February 24th, 2006, 04:21 PM
Why? Because the movie never tells the whole story. I'll use LOTR as an example: Jackson and his writing team did an excellent job of adapting Tolkien's work, but they still left things out. For example, there was the whole "Scouring of the Shire" sequence at the very end; Saruman wasn't killed at Isengard, but in the Shire after being brought to bay by Frodo and his friends.

Right. Those who've read the series see the missing bits. Tom Bombadil, the barrow wights and several other story elements that make the story considerably richer.
But I don't know how many times I've heard kids say that rather than read the book they were assigned, they'd just watch the movie and do their reports based solely on that "intake" of the story. Many of the moives that are made based on this novel or that end up looking nothing like the story they are supposedly using as thier basis. The movie "Blood Work" starring Clint Eastwood is an excellent example. The movie ignores many of the plot elements of the book and even to the point of changing who the killer was. (if my memory serves)

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 04:26 PM
Right. Those who've read the series see the missing bits. Tom Bombadil, the barrow wights and several other story elements that make the story considerably richer.

My wife hasn't read LOTR, so I try very hard to behave myself and refrain from saying, "OK, they cut out a section here; this part should have happened later" and such. It would spoil her fun. I've got the books; she can read them when she wants to.


But I don't know how many times I've heard kids say that rather than read the book they were assigned, they'd just watch the movie and do their reports based solely on that "intake" of the story.

Don't blame Hollywood for that. I had the same attitude about the books I was required to read. I'm a bookworm, but I insist on the right to decide for myself what to read. If you tell me, "You must read War and Peace," I'm going to get the Cliff's Notes and tell you to go bugger yourself. That's just how I am. A lot of other kids resent being told what to read as well, but they're not as willing to stand up for themselves as I am.

Bandit
February 24th, 2006, 04:57 PM
I grew up watching PBS on TV. There wasn't a internet back then.
It was watching PBS that thought me how a computer worked and many things that I know now. I have ADD so reading has always been a problem for me. Sometimes its a struggle to just stay connected to the world around me much less a book. :(
So I still watch PBS and now the Discovery & Science Channell's when I am not on the internet.
Cheers,
Joey

raublekick
February 24th, 2006, 05:54 PM
I'm a collage student right now, and I totally agree with your daughter, I would much rather listen to music, or go on a computer than read a book.
I grew up in a world with dialup internet, only 2 channels on tv, and no video game system. It was not like I didn't read as a child because I use to love reading. Now It just doesn't grab my attenetion anymore. I get bored and find myself go putting on music, and doing anything but reading. I don't find books as a form of entertainment anymore, but more of a source of information.
However I may be a strange person because I think TV sucks. There is never anything on, so I don't watch it. When I moved out from my parents house, I made the choice to have no TV, but have internet instead.


I agree with you a lot. I've been trying to read more and more, but I don't have the time right now. Like I said in the reading thread, when I have spare time I prefer to do things that let my brain rest.

And TV pretty much sucks. I've started watching some shows kinda regularly. The Daily Show and the Colbert Report are pretty good, and I have been following Flavor of Love and Celebrity Fit Club pretty regularly, but only because they are so funny to watch.

Rumor
February 24th, 2006, 06:12 PM
Don't blame Hollywood for that. I had the same attitude about the books I was required to read. I'm a bookworm, but I insist on the right to decide for myself what to read. If you tell me, "You must read War and Peace," I'm going to get the Cliff's Notes and tell you to go bugger yourself. That's just how I am. A lot of other kids resent being told what to read as well, but they're not as willing to stand up for themselves as I am.

I'm a bookworm too. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=134621) I can heartily echo your comment about insisting on the right to be able to choose what to read. I used cliff notes a time or two in my life. I simply could not read "The Great Gatsby." I just couldn't stomach it. At least the Cliff Notes give you an accurate precis of the story. They don't change the plot to suit their whims.

I don't blame Hollywood for scripting a movie differently than the author of the book presented the story. But kids who think they can watch the movie and get the same story as if they'd sat down and read the book are very mistaken.

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 06:21 PM
I used cliff notes a time or two in my life. I simply could not read "The Great Gatsby." I just couldn't stomach it.

A time or two? I used Cliff's Notes all through high school, on principle. I would not be told what to read, by anyone. I had a teacher in my senior year say, "It would be nice if you'd bother to read the book." My response was, "It would be nice if you'd bother to say 'please'."


But kids who think they can watch the movie and get the same story as if they'd sat down and read the book are very mistaken.

You're right. Any kid who thinks that should read Christine by Stephen King, and then watch John Carpenter's film.

WalterDirt
February 24th, 2006, 06:26 PM
I'm would guess that the long-term effects of "instant" entertainment are causing serious attention span disorders. And a book won't keep the attention of someone who grew up talking on the cellphone, browsing myspace, Instant messaging five friends, and listening to music all at the same time.

This isn't a rare case, anyone with a teenager in the house knows this.

As for me, I'm something of a binge reader, I have spells where I read a bunch of books for a couple of months and then nothing peaks my interest for a while.

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 06:34 PM
And a book won't keep the attention of someone who grew up talking on the cellphone, browsing myspace, Instant messaging five friends, and listening to music all at the same time.

I grew up on Nintendo and MTV (but I gave up MTV when they stopped running Headbanger's Ball), but I have no trouble getting into a book.

WalterDirt
February 24th, 2006, 06:39 PM
I grew up on Nintendo and MTV (but I gave up MTV when they stopped running Headbanger's Ball), but I have no trouble getting into a book.

But you didn't play nintendo while watching MTV, did ya? Even if you could with some odd multi-television setup in the living room its not the same with kids today and all the stuff I mentioned all happening and being juggled at once.

From a multi-tasking perspective its quite impressive.

And I didn't mean my comment as some absolute truth there will always be people who enjoy books.

ubunturulz11
February 24th, 2006, 06:51 PM
I'm a bookworm too. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=134621) I can heartily echo your comment about insisting on the right to be able to choose what to read. I used cliff notes a time or two in my life. I simply could not read "The Great Gatsby." I just couldn't stomach it. At least the Cliff Notes give you an accurate precis of the story. They don't change the plot to suit their whims.

I don't blame Hollywood for scripting a movie differently than the author of the book presented the story. But kids who think they can watch the movie and get the same story as if they'd sat down and read the book are very mistaken.



Yeah I'm in High School right now and I'm reading The Great Gatsby. I mean that book has to one of the most boring books of all time. And to add to my suffering I'm having to read this one after I read Black Boy by Richard Wright and Narative Life of Fredirick Dougless which IMHO are much better books.

Stormy Eyes
February 24th, 2006, 06:56 PM
I mean that book has to one of the most boring books of all time.

If you want boring, try reading Hitler's Mein Kampf. It's proof that human evil is, above all, banal (http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Abanal&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official).