Cuba says no mas microsoft

[manny43]

Cuba has switched to the Linux platform with Nova Linu. Thats a great move too bad CUBANS are not allowed to access the Internet.

[wilee-nilee]

Cuba has switched to the Linux platform with Nova Linu. Thats a great move too bad CUBANS are not allowed to access the Internet.

Can you provide any links.

[overdrank]

As this is not a support question it is moved to The Community Cafe, leave the politics out.

[tubezninja]

Welcome to 10 months ago:

http://www.hackitlinux.com/50226711/cuba_launches_nova_linux.php


"The Cuban government feels that Windows is not only a symbol of U.S. hegemonic rule, but they think the U.S. government has access to Windows' source code, and could use it against the Caribbean island," writes Gizmodo's Adrian Covert. "And it's difficult for Cubans to obtain and update their Windows software since there's like, you know, that whole trade embargo nonsense makes it really, really difficult to BUY it..."

Second reason = Valid.

First reason = not so good. When you politicize free software, it is no longer "free."

[SuperSonic4]

Nonetheless I wouldn't put it past the US to do such a thing. When you have the strongest standing army in the world you are above international law

[earthpigg]

First reason = not so good. When you politicize free software, it is no longer "free."

how so? People X should act in the best interests of People X.


the U.S. government has access to Windows' source code, and could use it against the Caribbean island,

this is a known fact.

it's hard to discuss this while leaving the politics out of it, but ill give it a shot:

if you think certain groups of people that rule a certain north american nation could at some point hypothetically want to do mean things to you, you would be very much acting in your own best interests not to have all of your infrastructure reliant on something with inner workings is only completely known and understood by that certain group of people mentioned above.


so, use Free Software. it may have vulnerabilities, as well, but at least with Free Software your people can find those vulnerabilities and patch them. it levels the playing field.

related note, this is why non-NATO nations generally do not make their gear reliant on GPS. uncle sam flips a switch, and bam: GPS only works with NATO equipment. or, if it's flipped the other way, only US equipment. or, even another way, only certain US equipment with secret inner workings.

[alexfish]

Cuba has switched to the Linux platform with Nova Linu. Thats a great move too bad CUBANS are not allowed to access the Internet.


WHY NOT !:o

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

Nonetheless I wouldn't put it past the US to do such a thing. When you have the strongest standing army in the world you are above international law
Not really. Tiny countries ignore international law all the time. International law is pathetic and useless when it comes to enforcement.

[Isengrin]

Some day I'll visit Cuba and see for myself. If it's good, I'll stay. ; )

[earthpigg]

WHY NOT !:o

only discussing technical issues here! no politics!

a few assumptions...

-most internet traffic travels overseas along giant, expensive, and thick, underwater cables.
-for mysterious magical reasons pertaining to dragons and fairies, there probably is no cable between cuba and the wealthy US.
-it probably isn't economical for anyone not cuba to build a cable to cuba from farther away than cuba. if cuba had a bunch of consumers that wanted to purchase things on the internet and had the money to do so, this wouldn't be the case.
-the island of cuba probably does have some very limited bandwidth.
-so, super slow internet for all, or only a few people get internet. the Chupacabran God decided that the latter is best. the Mystical Servesa decided that those few people are chosen by random chance, of course, and not by any political considerations. if you eat magical Chupacabra dung, you get the powers of the internet.

[LinuxFanBoi]

WHY NOT !:o

Because internet access would allow Cuban citizens to make an educated and informed decision over what type of government they should have.

In Cuba, the people fear their government, and their government wants to keep it that way.


Discussions on religion and politics are not allowed, except for politics directly related to free and open source issues.

I think this also extends to discussion relating to technology and it's proliferation as well.

[hansdown]

Can you provide any links.

http://www.hackitlinux.com/50226711/cuba_launches_nova_linux.php

[Skripka]

only discussing technical issues here! no politics!

a few assumptions...

-most internet traffic travels overseas along giant, expensive, and thick, underwater cables.
-for mysterious magical reasons pertaining to dragons and fairies, there probably is no cable between cuba and the wealthy US.
-it probably isn't economical for anyone not cuba to build a cable to cuba from farther away than cuba. if cuba had a bunch of consumers that wanted to purchase things on the internet and had the money to do so, this wouldn't be the case.
-the island of cuba probably does have some very limited bandwidth.
-so, super slow internet for all, or only a few people get internet. the Chupacabran God decided that the latter is best. the Mystical Servesa decided that those few people are chosen by random chance, of course, and not by any political considerations. if you eat magical Chupacabra dung, you get the powers of the internet.

Nuts. I thought it was Xenu.

[Exodist]

Cuba has switched to the Linux platform with Nova Linu. Thats a great move too bad CUBANS are not allowed to access the Internet.
Citizens are not allowed, but they do have internet access for tourist and high level government officials.

[Isengrin]

Please, not politics... I am pretty tempted to rant about it already, don't make me fall into temptation. ;_;

[earthpigg]

on a semi-related note, i do not think it would be a horrible idea for some charity to collect money and mail tens of thousands of ~$100 'hobo build' computers to cuba.

hobo build:
-cheapest mobo/cpu combo you can find
-single stick of ram
-wifi card capable of ad-hoc
-cheapest display you can find
-thumb drive with linux installed
-(some thumb drives will be configured to use whatever computer it is plugged into as a WAP, allowing an ad-hoc LAN/WAN to be formed so folks can share stuff with each other via 'giver'.)
-mouse, keyboard
-no case

would be more powerful than anything along the OLPC design paradigm could put together for that price.

if your target population is fairly uneducated, you need to target the kids and start early.

in a fairly educated place like cuba, best impact would be to toss aside concerns about 'ergonomic' and 'pretty' and 'child-proof' and get as many computers in as many hands as possible. hence, 'hobo build' and not 'pretty green netbook'.

[earthpigg]

Please, not politics... I am pretty tempted to rant about it already, don't make me fall into temptation. ;_;

use mythical beings as a replacement for political stuff.

no one else will know/understand exactly what mythical being refers to what political concept/entity, but who cares? you still get to rant! :D

[tubezninja]

how so? People X should act in the best interests of People X.

That's goodwill and humanitariansim, not politics.

Using free software as a platform to push a nefarious political agenda, or an "us vs them" attitude, is politicizing software that was ostensibly meant to break down boundaries, not reinforce them.

[Exodist]

on a semi-related note, i do not think it would be a horrible idea for some charity to collect money and mail tens of thousands of ~$100 'hobo build' computers to cuba.

hobo build:
-cheapest mobo/cpu combo you can find
-single stick of ram
-wifi card capable of ad-hoc
-cheapest display you can find
-thumb drive with linux installed
-(some thumb drives will be configured to use whatever computer it is plugged into as a WAP, allowing an ad-hoc LAN/WAN to be formed so folks can share stuff with each other via 'giver'.)
-mouse, keyboard
-no case

would be more powerful than anything along the OLPC design paradigm could put together for that price.

Government would prob just seize the equipment soon as it arrived. Plus what would the people do with them? Learn a IT job? Maybe in a few years. Castros brother is a little more open minded, but it will take some time.

[alexfish]

because internet access would allow cuban citizens to make an educated and informed decision over what type of government they should have.

In cuba, the people fear their government, and their government wants to keep it that way.



I think this also extends to discussion relating to technology and it's proliferation as well.


so is that what people of Cuba get in return for supporting the coffers of the government

strike a light for my cigar think not

[tubezninja]

-the island of cuba probably does have some very limited bandwidth.


It does, via satellite and microwave link, and using similar routes as international telephone service.

[earthpigg]

That's goodwill and humanitariansim, not politics.

you can't have one without the other. goodwill and humanitarianism is a political agenda in itself.


Using free software as a platform to push a nefarious political agenda, or an "us vs them" attitude, is politicizing software that was ostensibly meant to break down boundaries, not reinforce them.

what is 'nefarious' about...

1) not running software that it isn't legal to run (dragons and fairies prevent cuban citizens from purchasing microsoft windows)
2) not trusting a group of people that openly state they do not have your best interests at heart

?

here's the deal: as soon as the first copy of GNU/Linux arrived on the island, the four software freedoms where passed onto whoever had that copy in his/her hand.

the first software freedom (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_software#Definition):

Freedom 0: The freedom to run the program for any purpose.

any purpose. not "any purpose not political". any purpose.

[LinuxFanBoi]

so is that what people of Cuba get in return for supporting the coffers of the government?

They get to live another day without being executed.

[pwnst*r]

in before the lock!

[Skripka]

in before the lock!

Hey. I wuz about to say that.

[Isengrin]

Freedom 0: The freedom to run the program for any purpose.

any purpose. not "any purpose not political". any purpose.



I can't help but totally agree. They could even use it to build nuclear weapons (http://gizmodo.com/5204274/you-may-not-use-itunes-to-design-manufacture-or-produce-nuclear-chemical-or-biological-weapons), and no human power could stop them... altough, maybe the trolls and giants could.

[tubezninja]

what is 'nefarious' about...


It's nefarious because in the first breath, the Cuban government used this as a means to drive a deeper wedge between it and the dragons and fairies it claims to be a victim of.

[earthpigg]

It's nefarious because in the first breath, the Cuban government used this as a means to drive a deeper wedge between it and the dragons and fairies it claims to be a victim of.

it's nonsense 'magic' rhetoric, to be expected any time any 'magician' makes any speech or announcement relating to anything.

the Wizard Obama does the same thing whenever he opens his mouth. so did his predecessor, Warlock Bush.

expecting a 'magician' to leave 'magic' out of things is silly - you may as well expect rms to leave his opinions about Proprietary Software out of a speech about Microsoft Office 2008. lol.

on a related note:

When you politicize free software, it is no longer "free."

i couldn't disagree more. one of the major tenants of Free Software that i subscribe to is: "We don't care who writes the code. if it's good, and licensed properly, we will use it."... hence, 20k lines of code written by Microsoft is in our beloved kernel. hence, CUPS (currently developed by apple) comes preinstalled with ubuntu.

likewise, it doesn't matter why someone is distributing free software. when Jose receives it, he will also be given the Four Software Freedoms along with it. if the worst man in the world hands me an Ubuntu CD? ill take it.

as long as Castro adheres to the GPL and makes the source code available to those he distributes Free Software to (among other things), i have no complaints. we don't know if he will or will not do this, yet.

and, on the subject of greater long-term 'magical' freedoms...

let's assume there are smart folks in Cuba. folks able to "RTFM" and explore and learn even in the absence of things like google and online discussion forums (limited internet in Cuba).

every linux distro i am familiar with comes standard with the tools needed for someone to do coding of their own.

easy eample:

ls /usr/bin | grep python

take that, toss 'giver' into the mix, some ad-hoc LAN's, and easily available encryption (Truecrypt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truecrypt), for one) most governments do not have the ability to break, and you now have an easy means of underground discussions about the 'magic' going on in the capital city.

this may come back and bite a few 'magicians' in the rear.

[alexfish]

They get to live another day without being executed.

Look Two sites up on the internet ,,interesting Reading Both of them

http://havanajournal.com/culture/entry/internet-access-in-cuba-maybe-in-2010/


http://www.wtop.com/?nid=389&sid=1826347

Part of Extract from FIRST site I Think

Ordinary Cubans will have to wait until 2010 - when the submarine cable is expected to be ready for service - even though Cuba has been officially connected to the Internet since 1996.

[Gizenshya]

They get to live another day without being executed.



And they are complaining? ungrateful little...

[sdowney717]

do you thing a cuban government would put tracking code into nova?

http://www.nova.uci.cu/website/

the chinese and other similar governments restrict internet freedoms and typically have monitored internet activity. Of course our own government also monitors for homeland security, but freedom of speech issues always threaten totalitarian rulers.

[sdowney717]

are we dealing with a new Cuba?

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSTRE51A77S20090211


Rodriguez said several government ministries and the Cuban university system have made the switch to Linux but there has been resistance from government companies concerned about its compatibility with their specialized applications.

"I would like to think that in five years our country will have more than 50 percent migrated (to Linux)," he said.

Unlike Microsoft, Linux is free and has open access that allows users to modify its code to fit their needs.

"Private software can have black holes and malicious codes that one doesn't know about," Rodriguez said. "That doesn't happen with free software."

Apart from security concerns, free software better suits Cuba's world view, he said.

"The free software movement is closer to the ideology of the Cuban people, above all for the independence and sovereignty."

[Gizenshya]

the Wizard Obama ...

Please remember, whenever you refer to our Prophet Obama, Peace be upon Him, follow it with "peace be upon him."

kthxbye

[tubezninja]

it's nonsense 'magic' rhetoric, to be expected any time any 'magician' makes any speech or announcement relating to anything.


...But not supposedly "free" software.



the Wizard Obama does the same thing whenever he opens his mouth. so did his predecessor, Warlock Bush.

You're pushing a political agenda again. And, you're assuming - without any actual evidence - that the people you list have actual control over Windows software.



expecting a 'magician' to leave 'magic' out of things is silly

That doesn't mean I can't criticize it.



- you may as well expect rms to leave his opinions about Proprietary Software out of a speech about Microsoft Office 2008. lol.

I don't find anything funny in that. And, when he does speak about Microsoft 2008, I'll criticize his overbroad agenda there too.

[earthpigg]

That doesn't mean I can't criticize it.
...
I don't find anything funny in that. And, when he does speak about Microsoft 2008, I'll criticize his overbroad agenda there too.

we all have the right to criticize what we wish.

i suppose i am cynical to the point that i find it ridiculous for someone to expect a politician not to act like a politician... and you aren't quite as cynical as me.

so, fair enough, we can agree to disagree. :D


And, you're assuming - without any actual evidence - that the people you list have actual control over Windows software.

no, i'm not. im assuming that the magicians in cuba are making that assumption. which would be a perfectly reasonable assumption to make, for someone that grew up in a nation without magician's having checks and balances and limits on magical power.

consider the 2,000 pound elephant that is 'held in place' by a small rope attached to a small spike (the size of a tent spike) driven into the ground. all the elephant needs to do is lean against it and it will come out and he will be able to go where he wants. but, the elephant had that same spike and rope holding him in place when he was a small elephant... when he gave up for life and assumed the spike would always be able to hold him in place. he gave up as a young elephant, and he hasn't tried in years.

he assumes all spikes and ropes function exactly the same in all cases. the notion that some elephants don't have a spike and rope is completely alien to him.


the cuban government functionary that made the announcement that implies Uncle Sam has direct control over Microsoft Software is operating under the assumption that what he was taught when he grew up was the truth - namely, that American Democracy is a lie and that, in reality, America is an Oligarchic Empire wherein a few magicians have absolute control over everything.

whether this is true or not is completely irrelevant. its true for him, and for all the other cuban government functionaries, so this 'truth' will be reflected in every policy they suggest to their head magician be implemented.

the functionary that made the speech is a product of his magical environment, nothing more and nothing less. he isn't a bad person, just a normal person. it is entirely possible that he honestly feels that he is acting in the best interests of his people, and that what he said is the 'obvious' truth and that only a crazy or mis-informed person would feel otherwise.

most people are sheep. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment) the vast majority of people in any magical environment honestly feel that they are doing good in the world. East Germany. British Empire of the 19th Century. Stalin's lackeys. United States Department of ($DEPARTMENTNAME) employees in 2009. The same type of people excel in all.

take a US Department of ($DEPARTMENTNAME) employee. ctrl+c the personality. ctrl+v that personality onto a young cuban.

grats, you just created someone that will make the exact same announcement that we are regarding as controversial.

ctrl+v it onto a young Georgian or Russian in the early 20th century, and you have created the future administrator of a gulag death camp.

[Gizenshya]

^^ that phenomenon is called "learned helplessness." It is the drive behind a lot of confusing human actions, like inaction against corrupt governments, and abused wives staying with their husbands. A study of the latter is how the term was first coined.

/somewhat random factiod

[earthpigg]

tldr: the cuban government official isn't a bad person, just a normal person that would have held a similar government post regardless of what nation he was born into.

i regard his intermixing of political stuff into the speech as absolutely inevitable. it was an announcement about a political policy decision, after all.

criticizing the intermixing of political stuff into the speech, to me, would be like criticizing vodka for having alcohol. or a tree for having leafs.