good learning distribution?

[PatrickMoore]

I've been using ubuntu for a while and like it. I'm not too fond of 9.10 though. so I figured that now would be a perfect time to find a distribution to really learn linux. so I'm looking for a distribution that allows me to really learn how linux works and how to really use it. I'm still merely a beginner / intermediate and considering ive been using linux for nearly two years I figured it was time for me to really take a plunge into the linux world. I want to be able to be more helpful to new users and perhaps help develop future ubuntu releases

any suggestions?

[Psumi]

"To Learn linux" is an extremely vague term. What do you want to learn SPECIFICALLY.

Bash commands?

How to install wine to run your windows programs?

How to install x64 flash properly?

etc?

Have you searched this forum: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=100

[PatrickMoore]

sorry for being vague. I've always used the forum as a crutch and while ive absorbed some commands I want to be truly proficient with the terminal so that I can troubleshoot without someone holding my hand and potentally help more people beginning linux. so to answer your question i want to learn how to utilize the terminal to do everything.

[Psumi]

Then you'll want to search google for bash tutorials. No "distro" will tell you how to use bash properly.

[Tibuda]

If shell is what you want to learn, read some tutorials and keep a look at shell-fu (http://www.shell-fu.org/) and commandline-fu (http://www.commandlinefu.com/) for random tips. Bash is the same in every Linux-distro and BSD-variant (including Mac OS X).

[PatrickMoore]

I figured I would use tutorials and community help to learn but i guess what I'm looking for is a good distribution to really use these commands effectively. I'm trying to force myself to learn

[lakersforce]

I have two suggestions: Arch Linux and (not a GNU/Linux distro) GNU/Hurd. Using Arch for a couple of months really advanced my understanding.

[Psumi]

I figured I would use tutorials and community help to learn but i guess what I'm looking for is a good distribution to really use these commands effectively. I'm trying to force myself to learn

Arch might be a good choice then.

[~sHyLoCk~]

I figured I would use tutorials and community help to learn but i guess what I'm looking for is a good distribution to really use these commands effectively. I'm trying to force myself to learn

You are just looking for a distro change. Say it! :P As said above, ubuntu or any other distro is good enough, they are Linux distros after all.

[alexfish]

I've been using ubuntu for a while and like it. I'm not too fond of 9.10 though. so I figured that now would be a perfect time to find a distribution to really learn linux. so I'm looking for a distribution that allows me to really learn how linux works and how to really use it. I'm still merely a beginner / intermediate and considering ive been using linux for nearly two years I figured it was time for me to really take a plunge into the linux world. I want to be able to be more helpful to new users and perhaps help develop future ubuntu releases

any suggestions?

Hi

I have just been on a thread here

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1352443

So You are not alone / May Be Some One Could Start A Thread / With The Heading

" Ubuntu For Kids "

Or Shout For a listing in The Main Support Categories with the same Heading

" Ubuntu For Kids "

I Did a post here
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1351897

[Tibuda]

I figured I would use tutorials and community help to learn but i guess what I'm looking for is a good distribution to really use these commands effectively. I'm trying to force myself to learn

You can setup any distro to have full guis or only a stripped shell.

If you install Ubuntu-minimal, you'll only have a shell.
See http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntu/minimal

[NoaHall]

I have two suggestions: Arch Linux and (not a GNU/Linux distro) GNU/Hurd. Using Arch for a couple of months really advanced my understanding.

No no no no no no no no no. Never recommend this again, to someone who simply wants to learn bash. In fact, never recommend it again until it's at least a little bit usable.

[dragos240]

I would suggest arch. If you want to go deeper into the roots of Linux. Use gentoo, beware, it's not for the faint of heart.

[~sHyLoCk~]

I would suggest arch. If you want to go deeper into the roots of Linux. Use gentoo, beware, it's not for the faint of heart.

Seriously you guys..think before you type. Atleast take the time to read what OP is looking for.
Avoid FUD!

[lakersforce]

No no no no no no no no no. Never recommend this again...In fact, never recommend it again...

I recommend...(drum roll)...THE HURD ;) (But Arch even more so.)

[~sHyLoCk~]

I recommend...(drum roll)...THE HURD ;) (But Arch even more so.)

And why are you recommending Arch? Don't just recommend, give your reasons. [if any!]

[lakersforce]

so I figured that now would be a perfect time to find a distribution to really learn linux. so I'm looking for a distribution that allows me to really learn how linux works and how to really use it.

That's why.

[~sHyLoCk~]

That's why.

Arch doesn't teach you how Linux works, it teaches you how Arch works.
Slackware has the best, cleanest Linux implementation, there is an old saying" If you use Slackware, you learn Linux,, if you use distro X, you learn distro X."

Also I'd like to add I'm not recommending the OP to use Slackware, best starting point would be bash tutorials , scripting, programming which can be done using any distro, even ubuntu. Arch or Gentoo teaches you nothing special. Just because they have a challenging install method, doesn't make them ultimate Linux tutors.

[chucky chuckaluck]

you can probably learn more about linux from just about any distro. if you're lazy about it and looking for a distro that will force you to learn more, then arch won't do it. i've been using arch for about a year and a half (with a brief vacation in baboontu) and i still don't know much (and couldn't care any less). i'm sure there are plenty of folks who use ubuntu who know a ton about linux. it's more a matter of you either disciplining yourself (a horrifying thought to some of us), or ending up having a need to do so.
that said, arch is a great distro and, if you're looking for a switch anyway, might be good for you.

[~sHyLoCk~]

Excellent post by chucky chuckaluck. I bet the OP is looking for a switch but is wording his posts in a much more convenient way to get recommendations. If that's the case ignore my posts.

Regards

[keplerspeed]

Arch is a good way to learn some things about linux that Ubuntu doesnt force you to learn. That is part of the Arch learning curve. Each individual will have a difference exerience setting up Arch, depending on situation. For example, you will get really good at bringing up a wireless device and connecting to a network with the command line, if you do a net install.

If you want to learn bash, do bash. Lots of bash scripting tutorials around.

[nmccrina]

Actually, trying Linux From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/) might be helpful. Basically, you compile the GCC compiler, Bash, and the kernel from source in an unused partition. You don't lose your original system, and you don't even have to actually "use" the LFS system afterwards (I never have), but going through the process was immensely helpful for me. It introduces you to sed, cat, chroot and a bunch of other more advanced shell techniques.

[alexfish]

Actually, trying Linux From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/) might be helpful. Basically, you compile the GCC compiler, Bash, and the kernel from source in an unused partition. You don't lose your original system, and you don't even have to actually "use" the LFS system afterwards (I never have), but going through the process was immensely helpful for me. It introduces you to sed, cat, chroot and a bunch of other more advanced shell techniques.

Can't imagine this would help a Learner

[PatrickMoore]

Excellent post by chucky chuckaluck. I bet the OP is looking for a switch but is wording his posts in a much more convenient way to get recommendations. If that's the case ignore my posts.

Regards

I'm not looking for a permanant change. I am irritated with 9.10 but i feel the best way to proactively change this would be to be able to contribute to the community more positively than me asking beginner questions every time I have an issue. Maybe I'll try the 10.04 build. I was considering debian or sidux.
My issue is that trying just simple change hasn't done anything for me. fedora is slow to me and suse irritated the hell out of me and the community was hostile in my opinion.

[nmccrina]

Can't imagine this would help a Learner

I was a learner, and it helped me! :)

[fromthehill]

Actually, trying Linux From Scratch (http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/) might be helpful. Basically, you compile the GCC compiler, Bash, and the kernel from source in an unused partition. You don't lose your original system, and you don't even have to actually "use" the LFS system afterwards (I never have), but going through the process was immensely helpful for me. It introduces you to sed, cat, chroot and a bunch of other more advanced shell techniques.
I think lfs is a little too hard, and only an option If you know what you're doing

better is to first go with a linux distro you build with binary packages so you know what packages you need to make a system usable.

ubuntu minimal or arch should be good for that (I think ubuntu-minimal does more auto-config compared to arch. and with ubuntu you can cheat by installing ubuntu-desktop)

[nmccrina]

I think lfs is a little too hard <snip>

I don't understand; literally all you have to do is copy/paste the commands that they give. If all LFS did was tell you where to get the source for Binutils, GCC, Bash, Linux, etc. and told you to go compile it, I would agree. But you don't even have to type if you don't want to! Nor do you have to "switch to" LFS. You can continue using your Ubuntu or Fedora or whatever you're familiar with. In this sense it might be easier than moving to something like Arch or Slackware.

I look at it as more of a guided tour of how the basic components of a GNU/Linux fit together. And I learned a lot about shell commands too. Because of course I didn't just copy/paste; if they used a commmand (sed, for example) that I didn't understand, I would go Google it. I didn't become a sed expert, but just that process helped a lot, and plus you now had an idea of the kinds of things you would use sed for, instead of just knowing that it existed and perhaps some of its syntax.

But of course, YMMV. I'm not saying everybody should immediately drop everything, go do LFS, and thereby cure cancer and engineer world peace. :P I'm just saying that I tried it (without a ton of Linux experience, either), and it helped, and I turned out fine. I thought that little bit of personal experience might be helpful to the OP.

[mivo]

I would agree that Linux from Scratch would be a bit steep. I found Arch to offer a good balance of learning opportunity without ever feeling tedious or "over my head". It is certainly the distro that I learned the most from. Just going over the Beginner's Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide) will teach Linux (and indirectly BSD) concepts.

The danger of using Arch Linux as a learning tool is that you'll probably fall madly in love with Pacman, AUR, ABS and the rolling distro design. :)

[nmccrina]

Well, lfs seems to be shouted down. Forget I said anything. :D

Learning some C would help, too, regardless of distribution. And with that, I will leave this thread to avoid the raucous cries of "NO! It's too hard! Learn Python!". :P

[mivo]

Well, lfs seems to be shouted down. Forget I said anything. :D

No, that's not how my post was meant to come across. Sorry if it unintentionally did. :-| LFS is certainly a valid option. My experience with it was that it seems rather daunting when your only Linux background is a very user-friendly (in terms of configuration requirements: dumbed down) distro that took care of pretty much everything by itself. LFS is on the opposing end of the spectrum. Arch, Slack and Gentoo are somewhere inbetween, so I feel they offer a good compromise between "do it yourself" (learning) and convenience (smaller bits of new stuff to learn)

[PatrickMoore]

considering that I am currently at the local library writing a term paper, I'm going to grab a few books on the subject. I think im going to redo my minimal ubuntu install from scratch. I like the idea of having a gui but want to throw all my efforts into the terminal to learn everything. i think i should stick with debian based for now. I like yum a little and whatever the hell suse uses was a nightmare to me (probably because I don't know the basics)

[PatrickMoore]

would I be better trying something new though. sorry I'm second guessing alot.

[nmccrina]

would I be better trying something new though. sorry I'm second guessing alot.

There's nothing wrong with dual-booting two Linuxes, or using a VM. It's simpler than dual-booting Windows, because there's no conflict in boot manager. You'll always be able to boot all of them no problem. The only problem I've had is that if you do it in the wrong order OpenSUSE's nice graphical GRUB menu will get overwritten by Ubuntu's ugly console one. :(

Just use a LiveCD to resize your home partition (assuming you have enough room), create a couple empty partitions, and pick a few distributions that look interesting to install on them.

[PatrickMoore]

There's nothing wrong with dual-booting two Linuxes, or using a VM. It's simpler than dual-booting Windows, because there's no conflict in boot manager. You'll always be able to boot all of them no problem. The only problem I've had is that if you do it in the wrong order OpenSUSE's nice graphical GRUB menu will get overwritten by Ubuntu's ugly console one. :(

Just use a LiveCD to resize your home partition (assuming you have enough room), create a couple empty partitions, and pick a few distributions that look interesting to install on them.

is there a limit to the amout on distributions i can boot on my hard drive?

[buntunub]

If your looking for a Distro that will force you to learn the inner workings of Linux and force you to learn more bash commands, then Archlinux is your patsy. I felt the same way as you about 8 months ago and Arch was the best choice I could have made. Its easy to setup if you follow the wiki and it does force you to learn how Linux works under the hood - like it or not - while your setting up your custom system. After you get everything setup and working the way you want, its just unbelievable how smoking fast everything is and shows you what a truly optimized system can be like. Thats doing it the easy way, imo. The other way to do this is to reverse engineer a vanilla Ubuntu system - working backwards - and remove all the crap that you dont need from it. Probably a ton of stuff. You will learn by doing this as well because you will have to research every running process to discover what it does and figure out if you need it or not.

[nmccrina]

is there a limit to the amout on distributions i can boot on my hard drive?

Well, you would want at least 10 GB per I would think, so hard drive space might be a factor. (In these days of 1 TB drives, though, not so much). You can install a distro on a logical partition, so you're only limited by the number of possible logical partitions. I don't know what that number is, it's at least 12. A partitioning scheme might look like this:

sda1: 20 GB / (this would be your main distro, Ubuntu or whatever)
sda2: 1 GB swap (Or whatever amount you want)
sda3: ?? GB /home
sda5: 20 GB / (the first logical partition, holding some other distro. I wouldn't worry about having a separate /home partition for your test distros, just plop everything on here)

sda6: another distro
etc.

Note: sda4 is not pictured because it is an extended partition that holds all the logical ones. So here you have three primary partitions to hold your main OS, and then sda5 is the first logical partition. You can go up to at least sda12, so that gives like 8 possible partitions to install other distros on.

[murderslastcrow]

GENTOO! That'll really get you to learn Linux. Hahaha, just make sure you're on paid vacation when you try it.

[cariboo]

+1 for LFS, you build it in a chrooted environment. so you still have your regular installation if you need to do any researching.

[SunnyRabbiera]

Maybe you should work your way up to debian, as its a good stepping stone to more complex distros like slack or arch.
ubuntu is based on debian and you will be working in a familliar environment but installing and setting up debian is a good learning tool

[alexfish]

is there a limit to the amout on distributions i can boot on my hard drive?

only by the limit of the hard drive



Not a fond of multi distributions on one drive in case something happens so
I installed 9.04 on " system hard drive" Only I Have the Password for this one

then

mounted Ubuntu 9.10 on "external usb drive" with the "system" hard drive disabled from the bios


changed the the bios settings so

9.10 only boots in when it is plugged into usb port

also run Puppy Linux from Live CD with a puppy save on the system Hard Drive

Puppy linux have lots of wizards to help set the system up and plays DVDs out the
box it is simple and funky to use

[mivo]

is there a limit to the amout on distributions i can boot on my hard drive?

Pretty much as many as you want (http://www.justlinux.com/forum/showthread.php?p=861282#post861282), but why not run VirtualBox (http://www.virtualbox.org/) on your system and just install/play in there? Hardware compatibility doesn't seem to be a concern at this point of learning, and this would save you time and prevent any possible breakages. :)

[CharlesA]

Am I the only one thinking that running different distos in Virtual Machines would be easier then installing them onto yer hard drive? Scratch that, mivo beat me to it. :p

I learned the basics of Linux on something called "Pink Tie Linux" which is ancient and you can't even find a download anywhere. :confused:

I believe it was based off of Red hat, but I am not 100% sure.

[julianb]

i highly recommend Tiny Core Linux as a distribution to learn stuff on. You can learn how to install grub without an automatic installer (it's in the tiny core install instructions), you can learn to compile a driver from source (i did, anyway). You can learn to make your machine start up in ten seconds rather than 60+. Etc etc.

Doesn't hurt to learn to use virtual machine software too.

[PatrickMoore]

i decided on virtual machine instalation. i redid my minimal ubuntu installation and its running really well.

that way i have full capabilities while im playing around