Its disgusting... some members in the ubuntu mailing list don't like the forum online

[emigrant]

they keep bashing ....http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon13.gif http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon8.gif http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon8.gif

[RiceMonster]

uhhh... what?

At least provide a link or something so people know what you're talking about.

[Giant Speck]

What the hell are you talking about?

[FuturePilot]

[citation needed]

[emigrant]

hi,
i don't know how to provide a link. its in my inbox.
first of all do you all know that there is something called 'ubuntu mailing list' exists on earth? :D
i inquired there about the forum being offline.
to my astonishment, out of those replied, the majority said theyd prefer the forum go offline forever.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

There are a lot of people who don't like the forum because it has a habit of producing hoards of rabid, misinformed lunatics around just about every change that happens in the project. Unfortunately, it is very detached from the existing communication channels, making that situation worse.

One popular explanation for this is that forums are "easier" than mailing lists, RSS readers, etc., so lots of people will sign up for the forums and be completely detached from the actual goings on of the project. The result is having multiple communities. I don't think it is healthy for an open source project to have a huge user community which neither sees nor recognizes "the developers," but I think that is what the forum risks producing. Many people hereabouts see the developer community as some enigma that magically makes things happen; when something goes wrong they yell out a window.

It is a tone we are used to with proprietary software, but it does not fit here.

In addition, I think a lot of people see the forum to be redundant as a support resource since we already have loco teams, Launchpad Answers, etc.

[emigrant]

but i guess 90% of new ubuntu users learn from the forum and never knew about IRC of the mailing list.

[Chris Edgell]

but i guess 90% of new ubuntu users learn from the forum and never knew about IRC of the mailing list.

Of which I am one.

[RiceMonster]

hi,first of all do you all know that there is something called 'ubuntu mailing list' exists on earth? :D

Yes, but did you know not everyone subscribes?

[emigrant]

Yes, but did you know not everyone subscribes?
i thought the info in the title was enough.
by the way you have a most matching sig :lolflag:

[Tristam Green]

Sounds like BAWWWWWWW.

[matthew]

There are a lot of people who don't like the forum because it has a habit of producing hoards of rabid, misinformed lunatics around just about every change that happens in the project. Unfortunately, it is very detached from the existing communication channels, making that situation worse.

One popular explanation for this is that forums are "easier" than mailing lists, RSS readers, etc., so lots of people will sign up for the forums and be completely detached from the actual goings on of the project. The result is having multiple communities. I don't think it is healthy for an open source project to have a huge user community which neither sees nor recognizes "the developers," but I think that is what the forum risks producing. Many people hereabouts see the developer community as some enigma that magically makes things happen; when something goes wrong they yell out a window.

It is a tone we are used to with proprietary software, but it does not fit here.

In addition, I think a lot of people see the forum to be redundant as a support resource since we already have loco teams, Launchpad Answers, etc.
I understand this perspective. On the other hand, the goal of Ubuntu was/is to welcome anyone to use the OS and join the community, technologically proficient or not. The forums could easily be argued to account for at least some of Ubuntu's popularity among the non-geek and non-aware-of-other-parts-of-open-source-community-development-structures crowd.

Teach, don't complain.

[23meg]

first of all do you all know that there is something called 'ubuntu mailing list' exists on earth? :D

There are lots of (http://lists.ubuntu.com) Ubuntu-related mailing lists, not one. The conversation you referred to (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-December/204193.html) has taken place on the ubuntu-users mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-users), and one person has said that they wished the forums would disappear forever, and one other has confirmed.

I don't see a "majority" here.

[matthew]

There are lots of (http://lists.ubuntu.com) Ubuntu-related mailing lists, not one. The conversation you referred to (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-December/204193.html) has taken place on the ubuntu-users mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-users), and one person has said that they wished the forums would disappear forever, and one other has confirmed.

I don't see a "majority" here.
Thank you for noting this. I've been busy and hadn't a chance to look at the list.

My interactions with the wider Ubuntu community have been quite positive.

[emigrant]

There are lots of (http://lists.ubuntu.com) Ubuntu-related mailing lists, not one. The conversation you referred to (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-December/204193.html) has taken place on the ubuntu-users mailing list (https://lists.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-users), and one person has said that they wished the forums would disappear forever, and one other has confirmed.

I don't see a "majority" here.
i didn't say a majority spoke against. but i think nobody has replied relevant to what the poster has asked for.

[MaindotC]

There are a lot of people who don't like the forum because it has a habit of producing hoards of rabid, misinformed lunatics around just about every change that happens in the project.

YOU LIE!! Damn you Picklesworth!

[sdowney717]

we need to keep the forum doors wide open for all to have their say. this way users have more 'skin in the game', and it keeps things interesting and the community will grow bigger over time.
People who are honest about seeking will mostly find a solution eventually.

I find a lot of dross on the web generally having to do with old solutions that no longer work. weeding through that mess is very difficult.

[Mr. Picklesworth]

I understand this perspective. On the other hand, the goal of Ubuntu was/is to welcome anyone to use the OS and join the community, technologically proficient or not. The forums could easily be argued to account for at least some of Ubuntu's popularity among the non-geek and non-aware-of-other-parts-of-open-source-community-development-structures crowd.

Teach, don't complain.

I agree. In my opinion, there is definitely a problem here that needs fixing, but the solution is not to make people use the trickier tools, to stare at the mailing lists for news, etc.

I think Launchpad Answers is a nice support solution since it's tied directly to the development infrastructure, and we should point people to it more often (it's just Help -> Get Help Online, after all). However, a lot of other stuff is just done well through the forums, especially with fancy formatting.

And to clarify, I for one don't see it as an urgent world-will-explode type problem, but there is clearly some glue missing :)

[matthew]

I agree. In my opinion, there is definitely a problem here that needs fixing, but the solution is not to make people use the trickier tools. (The mailing lists would be swamped!)

I think Launchpad Answers is a nice support solution since it's tied directly to the development infrastructure, and we should point people to it more often (it's just Help -> Get Help Online, after all). However, a lot of other stuff is just done well through the forums, especially with fancy formatting.
+1 in theory

In practice, I don't think it is incredibly likely that more than a handful of forum members will pursue other support options. I think we have a totally different and unique constituency that appreciates this format and isn't likely to use others (just as the mailing lists serve a unique constituency that isn't as likely to use IRC, which has users who aren't likely to use the forums, etc.). I'm not arguing against your idea, just being practical about the fact that people have preferences and tend to gravitate to specific options. :)

[23meg]

i didn't say a majority spoke against.

You said:


to my astonishment, out of those replied, the majority said theyd prefer the forum go offline forever.

[matthew]

And to clarify, I for one don't see it as an urgent world-will-explode type problem, but there is clearly some glue missing :)
Agreed.

[emigrant]

You said:
sorry if im wrong.
but if 3 replied then 2 spoke against, isn't it majority?
:lolflag:

edit:
btw: thanks for the additional list, im subscribing for some of them now.

[23meg]

sorry if im wrong.
but if 3 replied then 2 spoke against, isn't it majority?

It would have been, had three people replied. But nine people have.

[emigrant]

It would have been, had three people replied. But nine people have.
those who spoke have veto powers others just voters.
man you could have done some other benificial works rather than researching on that mail. should i delete this thread or should i accept any penalties? :KS;)

[23meg]

those who spoke have veto powers others just voters.
man you could have done some other benificial works rather than researching on that mail. should i delete this thread or should i accept any penalties? :KS;)

I don't get what you mean by "veto powers", but it took me three minutes to do a search and find out what happened.


And to clarify, I for one don't see it as an urgent world-will-explode type problem, but there is clearly some glue missing

I've been working on providing that "glue" for years, in different forms; my conclusion (as well as that of some prominent people in the community I've spoken to) is that as long as the overwhelming majority of people see the forums as a one stop shop to everything Ubuntu-related, it's going to remain as an island, and there's no long term fix. All that can be done is to try to provide facts and help to fix the issues that arise on a per-case basis.

[matthew]

i've been working on providing that "glue" for years, in different forms; my conclusion (as well as that of some prominent people in the community i've spoken to) is that as long as the overwhelming majority of people see the forums as a one stop shop to everything ubuntu-related, it's going to remain as an island, and there's no long term fix. All that can be done is to try to provide facts and help to fix the issues that arise on a per-case basis.
+1

[emigrant]

but it took me three minutes to do a search and find out what happened.


i see, for me it takes more time since each reply comes as a seperate mail with evolution and i have to go through one by one to pick the emails with the relevent subject from the rest of the mails.

[XubuRoxMySox]

i see, for me it takes more time since each reply comes as a seperate mail with evolution and i have to go through one by one to pick the emails with the relevent subject from the rest of the mails.

You can choose the Digest version and get one or two e-mails per day instead. The threads are listed, so you can scroll right down to the relevant ones.

-Robin

[emigrant]

You can choose the Digest version and get one or two e-mails per day instead. The threads are listed, so you can scroll right down to the relevant ones.

-Robin
thanks for your advice.
but at the same time, i can't wait a reply for my question untill the end of the day :(

[Chris Edgell]

emigrant,

Please don't take offense if I ask you how old you are. Of course you don't have to tell me, just like your location is odd and your beans are hidden--you can be very private here.

But when you state your opinions, and make your comments here, and your reasoning is like that of a 15 year-old, I guess I have a right to state my thought and opinion.

If you are young, well, I can understand where you're coming from, otherwise I'd be inclined to tell you a thing or two about your suck-y attitude.

Sorry, I don't usually go on the offensive about personal matters but geez...

If someone else feels inclined to "put me in my place" feel free, I CAN take it...even if I might be embarrassed.

[lisati]

My $0.02:
Do what works.
If being on the mailing list works for you, use it!
If receiving individual emails works, do it!
If receiving an email digest of some kind works, use it!
If using the forums works, do so!

:)

[suitedaces]

My $0.02:
Do what works.
If being on the mailing list works for you, use it!
If receiving individual emails works, do it!
If receiving an email digest of some kind works, use it!
If using the forums works, do so!

:)

+1. Anything else must surely be against the spirit of software libre?

[aysiu]

I read through the whole mailing list thread, and it seems harmless. The first person even put a smiley face. I think it was meant to be as a kind of nostalgic in-jest remark. I don't see it as some actual motion to have the forums be shut down.

This post (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-December/204230.html) totally cracked me up, though:
Forums are difficult and clunky to use alright. And really they have mostly
disappeared. Maybe a post or two a month on a real lively one. Like most
folks these days, I don't have the time for them
Clearly someone who hasn't spent any time on the Ubuntu Forums... or who doesn't know when to use [SARCASM] tags.

[emigrant]

no i don't take any offences.
u came close to my age and missed.
i prefer someone close the thread. :)

[emigrant]

I read through the whole mailing list thread, and it seems harmless. The first person even put a smiley face. I think it was meant to be as a kind of nostalgic in-jest remark. I don't see it as some actual motion to have the forums be shut down.

This post (https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-users/2009-December/204230.html) totally cracked me up, though: Clearly someone who hasn't spent any time on the Ubuntu Forums... or who doesn't know when to use [SARCASM] tags.

so i think i can say whatever rude words against some body and put a smiley at the end so it will become no offnece :)

[aysiu]

so i think i can say whatever rude words against some body and put a smiley at the end so it will become no offnece :)
I guess what I'm saying :) is that I didn't find it that rude to begin with, but the smiley face just made it seem as if it wasn't even a serious proposition.

[Marvin666]

I understand this perspective. On the other hand, the goal of Ubuntu was/is to welcome anyone to use the OS and join the community, technologically proficient or not. The forums could easily be argued to account for at least some of Ubuntu's popularity among the non-geek and non-aware-of-other-parts-of-open-source-community-development-structures crowd.

Teach, don't complain.
I've always enjoyed a forum environment. Personally I believe it is closer to the open-source frame of mind than a one-on-one tech support line.
-Many minds working together to form a good solution.