Is Linux Really About Freedom?

[clevertomato]

I just read another "leaving Linux" thread here on the forums. Several replies said something along the lines of, "you should buy a PC that has Linux/Ubuntu preinstalled and you wouldn't have these problems." I've been shopping for a new notebook PC for weeks now. I bought and returned a Lenovo IdeaPad Y550 (Karmic worked well on it, but Lenovo made the system have an ear-piercing low-battery beep that could only be turned off in Windows). I'm still searching for one that fits the hardware features I want and hopefully be fully functioning in Ubuntu. It is wearing me out.

So anyway, my point is this... there are VERY few systems that come preloaded with Linux. I find comments that people should buy computers with Linux preloaded to be contradictory to the whole free as in speech mantra. Essentially, it means that if you want to use Linux, you must relinquish your freedom to choose what HARDWARE you want to use. I want a notebook with all the different ports (USB, e-SATA, HDMI), mem card reader, combo BD-ROM DVD/CD recorder, nVidia GPU, backlit keyboard, etc. Guess what... a Dell Inspiron (an Ubuntu preload machine) doesn't come with all of these features.

If using Linux means trading freedom in the hardware realm for freedom in the OS realm, that's not really gaining much. Freedom is freedom. I want freedom to get the hardware I need and want AND freedom with my OS. Is the idea of trading one freedom in so you can use Linux a prevailing one, or do you suppose it's just that of some folks?

[sliketymo]

"You can't always get what you want"Mick Jagger

[sisco311]

You are free to choose & you are free to write the drivers for the currently non-supported hardware. :)

EDIT: you should post a thread in the support forums, maybe someone can suggest you a notebook that suits your needs.

[aysiu]

Well, there are short-term freedoms and long-term freedoms.

This is an extreme example, of course, but it's the same concept. Let's say you live in a totalitarian regime. If you spout the party line, you have the "freedom" to do what you want and not be harassed by the police. If you protest the regime, the secret police will be after you and may torture and/or kill you. But if enough people protest the regime, the secret police can't torture and kill everyone. So ultimately those people would overthrow the government and everyone would have freedom.

So the people protesting are sacrificing short-term freedom (emotional comfort, physical safety) for long-term freedom (the ability to do what you want and not have to feel confined to doing things the regime way).

Again, I realize that is an extreme example. Microsoft doesn't have secret police who will torture you. They are not a regime.

But the same principle applies. In the ideal world, you would have the freedom to choose any operating system you want for any computer you want. That isn't the reality. In the short-term, you appear to have more "freedom" to choose by buying Windows-preinstalled models, but if everyone buys Windows preinstalled models, the only thing that will be offered is Windows-preinstalled models (and Apple ones with Mac OS X preinstalled).

If, however, enough people are willing to sacrifice short-term freedom to buy a limited selection of Linux-preinstalled models, OEMs will see Linux-preinstalled as a worth expanding, and there will be more Linux-preinstalled options for everyone.

[Simon17]

Microsoft doesn't have secret police who will torture you. They are not a regime.


Care to back that up?

[dragos240]

Yes. That's the point of Linux overall. It's why I use it!

[chillyomi]

dude you ask for too much you cant get it all there is always a trade off still I do recommend you get Linux OS unless you are a real hardcore pc gamer Then you should dual-boot.

I dual-boot just so i can play halo :)

[t0p]

OP: How important is it, to you, to be able to buy computers that come with Linux installed?

If you think that's really important, then you should make an effort to buy a computer that comes with Linux installed. As aysiu said above, computer sales companies will offer computers with Linux only if they think there's a demand for them. If you want computers to come with Linux, you have to buy computers with Linux. Even if that means you have to compromise on hardware choice. You make the compromise today so that there'll be a better selection tomorrow.

If you don't really care if computers are sold with Linux installed, you don't need to buy computers that come with Linux installed. You can always scrape the Windows off the hard drive when you get home, or dual-boot. Of course, if everyone does that, mainstream computer sales companies will never offer machines with Linux. No one wants them, no one will sell them. But if you don't care, you don't care. It means you have a better selection of hardware today.

In the title of this thread, you ask "Is Linux really about freedom?" The answer is: yes. You are free to do whatever you want. But you have to bear in mind: every choice has consequences.

[Ferrat]

Also there is the question of choices, for good and bad Linux have lots of different ways of doing things depending on your choice of distribution and also in theory you could just take the kernel and add what ever stuff you want and leave out the rest, but with Windows for ex. you are stuck with their way and no other, for when it comes to disk/file management there are multiple options other then for ex. Nautilus that comes with Ubuntu, even in Ubuntu you can switch if you don't want it while in Windows it's hard to get anything working good if you remove explorer :P



Of course, if everyone does that, mainstream computer sales companies will never offer machines with Linux. No one wants them, no one will sell them.

Dell offers computers (where they can and don't have a deal with MS) and many of the netbooks for ex have orginal linux version and are sold with them, however many retail companies in a lot of countries have deals with Microsoft "blocking" them from selling anything else, also many of them don't see Linux as well known enough to push for it so they just extend their MS deals.
But many of the bigger Computer companies have computers selling with Linux and are actively developing, it's not just users how don't like Microsofts way of doing things, the problem is just that, people don't care, not knowing that they could save money getting a computer with Linux installed instead of Windows.

[clevertomato]

Aysiu, you make a good point re: long term vs short term. That makes some sense. Of course I want it all... :) don't we all? But principle is important to me and the principle of freedom (as regards Linux) is too.

I have already posted a couple different threads in the support area asking for guidance getting a notebook that is fully functional in Ubuntu, but mostly people don't respond or I get lame responses like from one guy who kept pasting in the minimum requirements for Ubuntu at me. Like 700 mhz CPU really helps me choose a new notebook these days. I tried to explain to him how unhelpful that was and he said I was asking too much for someone to give recommendations for Ubuntu compatible hardware. Ridiculous. Or, I get sent to the Ubuntu hardware (and notebook) compatibility list, which as far as I can tell is just not helpful. Everything on there is old. I can't buy hardly any of those anymore. They're not on the market as new machines anymore. I wish there were a way to improve that list... to have a central repository of real users posting hardware compatibility that includes brand new systems and components. Please don't tell me "you ask too much" again. I admit that I want more than may be reasonable in some areas, but a hardware compatibility list that is up-to-date doesn't seem like asking too much.

Ok, sorry, this wasn't intended to be a rant or gripe session. I only mean to spark an intelligent dialogue and hopefully to see even more improvements to what is already a great OS and a great community.

Oh, and I personally don't care if any computer I get has ANY OS pre-installed. I would rather do it myself. It's the first thing I do anyway, so I can exercise the freedom of having what I want on my machine and not have what I don't want. What I DO want desperately is to have a wide choice, not in hardware that has Linux pre-installed, but in hardware that is fully functional with Linux. For example, I am still struggling with whether it makes a big deal if I get an integrated Intel GPU vs dedicated ATI vs nVidia. I'm not a gamer but do enjoy playing HD media. I just want hardware that will work (but still the hardware I want and need).

I do appreciate the replies thus far. They have helped me get a better perspective.

[Old_Grey_Wolf]

If using Linux means trading freedom in the hardware realm for freedom in the OS realm, that's not really gaining much. Freedom is freedom. I want freedom to get the hardware I need and want AND freedom with my OS. Is the idea of trading one freedom in so you can use Linux a prevailing one, or do you suppose it's just that of some folks?

No operating system provides complete freedom were hardware is concerned. Windows stopped supporting many of my hardware devices over the years. MAC OS-X isn't giving any options on what hardware it is allowed to run on. And, it really isn't the operating system vendor's fault. The hardware vendors need to support the operating systems. The hardware vendors are the ones that write the drivers that make it possible for your hardware to work.

Linux is about freedom. Freedom to use your computer the way you want, customize it the way you want, and have openly available source code so that you can determine what is in it or modify it to your needs. It doesn't try to play "big brother" and limit what you can use your computer for. You may say the "sudo" or "su" to get root privileges is acting like "big brother"; however, that was in place from the beginning. It is there because the operating system was designed for a multi-user environment. Microsoft is beginning to make changes to their operating system to work as a multi-user operating system.

I think your interpretation of Freedom needs to be expanded.

I also think that people suggesting buying a computer with Linux pre-installed will solve capability problems is also misguided. I have a Dell 1420 laptop with the same hardware as the 1420n with Linux installed; except, that it has more memory and a bigger hard disk. It worked great with Ubuntu 8.04 and 8.10; however, when I installed Ubuntu 9.04 there was a problem with the Intel Graphics driver. It was not an Ubuntu operating system problem but an Intel graphics chip driver problem. If I had thought that freedom meant I can use any hardware I wanted then I would have been disappointed with Ubuntu.

My 2 cents.

[utnubuuser]

Who told you it's about freedom?

As far as I know, free software is about having an operating system which you can use, alter, improve, and distribute - as you see fit, - without having to relinquish rights for which your nation, neighbors, brothers and sisters etc fought for.

regarding your complaint about the Thinkpad's ear-splitting battery alarm, - did you take the time to contact Lenovo and tell them you want proper support? - the thinkpads are some of the best supported (for linux) pieces of harware available.
there are lists "out there" listing the most compatible hardware, and there are companies specializing in (p)re-configured systems featuring linux OSs.

Main point: Manufacturers have only made software-less systems available because people insisted (there were actual demonstrations at manufacturers offices). - Don't gripe here, instead send your valid request to the hardware vendors.

[clevertomato]

Who told me Linux is about freedom? Uh... that mantra is everywhere.

Of course I contacted Lenovo about the ear-splitting battery alarm. And of course as soon as they heard I was running Linux the whole conversation stopped. They said, "we only support Windows on our machines. Install Windows and then talk to us." So I actually did install Win 7 and called them back. They had me change the sound for critical battery alarm to "none." It actually worked, but that even goes against Windows too because you're supposed to be able to assign ANY sound you want to that event. Instead, Lenovo made it so that you either have NO sound (using Windows) for that or the ear-piercing Lenovo system beep every 20 seconds. I told them that is not what I call "Windows compatible" if it doesn't honor the Windows sound assignment. The rep told me, "what other sound do you WANT to hear for that!" I told him, "whatever sound I dang well please, not only ONE sound that Lenovo chooses for me." Geez. How stupid. I thought Lenovo had a good rep too, but judging by my one experience, they do stupid non-standard things too.

Again, the replies make sense. I admit to wishing there were a perfect OS to run on a perfectly configured computer, but neither exist. Still, it's frustrating to be surrounded by Windows users who don't give a second thought to hardware compatibility when making purchases because Windows enjoys such huge market share and therefore such a wide range of supported hardware.

I'll keep plugging away with Linux because it has many advantages and I'm willing to suffer in some areas for the sake of principle, but I still have moments of frustration with Linux here and there. No biggy.

I'm glad that so far I haven't been accosted by inflammatory responses for my post. Sometimes the slightest bit of questioning anything about Ubuntu/Linux leads to strong over-reactions. The replies I've received have been balanced, informative, and helpful.

[forrestcupp]

If, however, enough people are willing to sacrifice short-term freedom to buy a limited selection of Linux-preinstalled models, OEMs will see Linux-preinstalled as a worth expanding, and there will be more Linux-preinstalled options for everyone.

Everything you said is true. But enough people are not willing to sacrifice short-term freedom, so the ones that are are going to end up sacrificing their long-term freedom, too.

[clevertomato]

But enough people are not willing to sacrifice short-term freedom, so the ones that are are going to end up sacrificing their long-term freedom, too.

Unfortunately this seems like the reality of the situation, which makes it a little harder to be motivated to sacrifice.

[longtom]

Windows free for a year now, but pulling my hair out trying to get the new ASrock HTPC to connect wirelessly. I've bought 2 usb adapters with no luck and am now looking at an ethernet wireless bridge. Can someone please give me a suggestion for anything plug and play in this department? Gracias.

You won't find help here. I'd suggest to open a thread in the support section of the forums. Traditionally the most trafiic is in the beginners section.

Good Luck.

[xx58]

:rolleyes:Really don't know, but I don't have money for fancy staff and because I love Linux. I use only Linux in my laptop and I am happy. I believe it is FREEDOM on some way....

[BrokenKingpin]

I have a desktop with all of those features you just listed off and Ubuntu works just fine on it. I also have another desktop and a laptop that Ubuntu works perfectly on. I think the hardware support in Linux is better than people give it credit for. I know a lot of people with fully functional laptops running Ubuntu (and other distros), so don't give up your search yet.

[BuffaloX]

Linux is very much about freedom,
But I think OP got the problem a bit turned on the head.

How is buying a computer that only allows one OS to run on it freedom?
The reason those systems don't work with Linux is not because Linux in any way prevent them from working.

On the other hand, some hardware vendors prevent OS's from working with their equipment by completely closing the specs needed to make drivers.
The ONLY OS's that will work, are the ones supported by the vendor.

This means you can have a computer that works for XP but not Vista or W7, and vice versa. Not always because the computer is technologically obsolete, but because vendors don't want to support old hardware, because not doing it, force people to buy new.

Your computing freedom starts with your choice of hardware, and supporting hardware vendors that support freedom.

Another analogy could be.
Freedom is good.
Limiting my choice to healthy food, limit my freedom.
Ergo healthy food is bad.

[clevertomato]

Interesting way of putting it, BuffaloX.

[Rainstride]

try http://www.zareason.com they make computers and only support ubuntu.

[NoaHall]

Why not build your own? Not hard, promise.

I thought you were meaning generally - not asking for help finding something.

[aysiu]

Why not build your own? Not hard, promise.
Built a laptop or netbook before?

[starcannon]

I just read another "leaving Linux" thread here on the forums. Several replies said something along the lines of, "you should buy a PC that has Linux/Ubuntu preinstalled and you wouldn't have these problems." I've been shopping for a new notebook PC for weeks now. I bought and returned a Lenovo IdeaPad Y550 (Karmic worked well on it, but Lenovo made the system have an ear-piercing low-battery beep that could only be turned off in Windows). I'm still searching for one that fits the hardware features I want and hopefully be fully functioning in Ubuntu. It is wearing me out.

So anyway, my point is this... there are VERY few systems that come preloaded with Linux. I find comments that people should buy computers with Linux preloaded to be contradictory to the whole free as in speech mantra. Essentially, it means that if you want to use Linux, you must relinquish your freedom to choose what HARDWARE you want to use. I want a notebook with all the different ports (USB, e-SATA, HDMI), mem card reader, combo BD-ROM DVD/CD recorder, nVidia GPU, backlit keyboard, etc. Guess what... a Dell Inspiron (an Ubuntu preload machine) doesn't come with all of these features.

If using Linux means trading freedom in the hardware realm for freedom in the OS realm, that's not really gaining much. Freedom is freedom. I want freedom to get the hardware I need and want AND freedom with my OS. Is the idea of trading one freedom in so you can use Linux a prevailing one, or do you suppose it's just that of some folks?

If one does not have the expertise to build/install/assess compatibility of hardware/operating systems/software one should buy a computer with the OS of their choice pre-installed. This does NOT diminish freedom, this EMPOWERS the end user with more choices at time of purchase. The assertion that advising a new user to buy a computer with Linux pre-installed diminishes their freedom is absurd. There are by the way a rather nice selection of choices, my favorite 3 in no particular order:


http://www.zareason.com (http://www.zareason.com/)
http://www.system76.com (http://www.system76.com/)
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/linux_3x?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

Enjoy

[clevertomato]

I've heard of System 76 but not that company. Thanks for the tip. It's good that some companies offer preinstalled Linux, but all of them I've seen are pretty limited in choice, have few features, and are quite ugly. Just because I want to run GNU/Linux doesn't mean I want an old-looking, feature-poor notebook. I don't know why the only laptops that come with Ubuntu are that way. Besides, it comes with 9.04. I'd immediately wipe the drive and install Karmic. *frustration* but still, I do appreciate the info.

Build my own LAPTOP? Huh? Are you serious?

[tfultz33]

I was wondering if anyone knows where the free ubuntu shipit cds ship from?

[NoaHall]

Built a laptop or netbook before?

Not a netbook, but I have done a hacked together laptop. Hurrah for heavy laptops! In the end, I threw it away(after gaining my parts) as I merely wanted to see how easy it was to do.

Anyway, I'd still rather build a desktop than buy a laptop.

[aysiu]

I've heard of System 76 but not that company. Thanks for the tip. It's good that some companies offer preinstalled Linux, but all of them I've seen are pretty limited in choice, have few features, and are quite ugly. Just because I want to run GNU/Linux doesn't mean I want an old-looking, feature-poor notebook. I don't know why the only laptops that come with Ubuntu are that way. Besides, it comes with 9.04. I'd immediately wipe the drive and install Karmic. *frustration* but still, I do appreciate the info. The Dell Vostro v13 doesn't look too bad:
http://www.dell.com/us/en/business/notebooks/vostro-v13/pd.aspx?refid=vostro-v13&s=bsd&cs=04

Bottom line, though, is that we live in a Windows world. If you want to run Linux, you have these options: Do research and find a Windows-preinstalled computer that has Linux-friendly components and install Linux on it by yourself. Don't do research and just buy whatever Windows-preinstalled computer you want and hope it is Linux-friendly, and then install Linux on it by yourself. Buy a Mac, which is definitely not Linux-friendly, and then install Linux on it yourself and just truck through all the little hardware issues. Buy Linux preinstalled and limit yourself to what's available. Buy no-OS preinstalled and limit yourself to what's available. Build your own computer. No matter what option you pick, it won't be the ideal, because we don't live in an ideal world, especially if you're a Linux user. Do what you can.

[tgalati4]

Of course open source hardware is an ultimate goal. Free Open Source Software (FOSS--both the OS and applications) have come a long way. Hardware manufacturers are slowly opening up more in their designs. It will take some time.

One valid argument is that if you open up the specs of your hardware, then anybody could manufacture it. With FOSS, who cares. With GPL software it's open and unencumbered and will remain so. With hardware, a manufacturer could easily lose all of the R&D invested in a product by releasing it's design details. Any other enterprise (such as a foreign technical school that does nothing but reverse-engineer products) could start producing the item without the R&D cost. Essentially they are "stealing" the design.

There are a few open source hardware projects. OpenMoko phone. Pandora handheld tablet. Open graphics card. I don't see any lines forming.

[starcannon]

I've heard of System 76 but not that company. Thanks for the tip. It's good that some companies offer preinstalled Linux, but all of them I've seen are pretty limited in choice, have few features, and are quite ugly. Just because I want to run GNU/Linux doesn't mean I want an old-looking, feature-poor notebook. I don't know why the only laptops that come with Ubuntu are that way. Besides, it comes with 9.04. I'd immediately wipe the drive and install Karmic. *frustration* but still, I do appreciate the info.

Build my own LAPTOP? Huh? Are you serious?

If one does not like the laptop offerings from the available manufactures; then one must be willing to research the components in ones favorite list of laptops.

Dell, HP, Gateway, Lenevo, Compaq, Acer, Asus, and several other companies, all make laptops that are very linux friendly. However, because their laptops that ship with Windows are not supported for linux concerns, it is up to the consumer to do the legwork, and research if all of the components on interesting systems, are linux friendly.

It takes a little more time to shop for a laptop that is Linux friendly, but when one is spending $600 to $2500, a little work now, can save a lot of frustration later.

Some components that are generally linux compatible are made by:


Intel
Nvidia
AMD
ATi (with a bit of fiddling)

Those 4 companies all offer some very nice stuff, that works very nice with Linux. Stay away from bleeding edge, unless you are willing to be patient and wait for the Linux drivers to mature; it has gotten better, but it is not shocking to find a bleeding edge component take 6months to a year to get fully functional drivers.

If you don't need Draft N, then I highly recommend the Intel 3495 a/b/g pro wireless wifi chipset, Synaptics Touchpad, Nvidia GPU 6,7,8, or 9 series are all working really well these days. CPU's Intel/AMD both function perfectly, go with the most bang for the dollar. 2gb of ram is sufficient for most, if you want a bit more go with 3gb, 4+gb if your into heavy AV production. Theres also the issue of suspend/resume and hibernate, bios, and other issues, read and research a day or 3 before you spend your money, and then get something nice that will respond in a manner you desire.

GL and HF

[clevertomato]

@ aysiu: Very concisely laid out. The thing I keep running into is that we don't live in an ideal world, so every option includes some sort of compromise. What's an idealist to do? :D I hate compromising.

@ starcannon: good information.

I have done much more than 3 days of researching components. It looks like I lean toward the option of buying a Windows machine that is as Linux friendly as possible, and then installing Linux on my own. As I said before, I plan to install Linux on my own no matter what I buy. That's not the issue. The issue is I want all the cool features AND Linux compatibility. Something's gotta give. At this point, I think I'd rather get one that has all the hardware features I want with decent Linux compatibility and fiddle / wait to get the quirks worked out. That fits me better (I think) than buying a stripped down, high-priced, feature-poor laptop that is "officially" supported with Linux.

[aysiu]

This isn't any kind of official statement, so I would wait until others have verified what I said before going ahead with it, but generally speaking I'd say that Intel is the way to go. Broadcom and Atheros are not the way to go. And Nvidia and ATI should be fine in theory, but you may have to do a little rolling up of the sleeves with those.

[t0p]

people don't care, not knowing that they could save money getting a computer with Linux installed instead of Windows.

I don't know about "saving money" by buying a computer with Linux installed. It's been a while now: but when I looked at Dell UK's site, their Ubuntu machines cost either the same as or more than the Windows equivalent. Ubuntu represented no monetary saving at all, which I have trouble understanding.

[t0p]

You may say the "sudo" or "su" to get root privileges is acting like "big brother"; however, that was in place from the beginning. It is there because the operating system was designed for a multi-user environment.

The use of sudo instead of allowing root login is not a Linux thing; it's an Ubuntu thing. Most distros have no trouble with a user becoming root. And that's also how it is with the original "multi-user environment" OS: Unix. Ubuntu's hand-holding approach is not indicative of Linux as a whole.

[* I'm aware than Unix was not the first ever multi-user OS. I meant that Unix is the original multi-user *nix.]

[starcannon]

I don't know about "saving money" by buying a computer with Linux installed. It's been a while now: but when I looked at Dell UK's site, their Ubuntu machines cost either the same as or more than the Windows equivalent. Ubuntu represented no monetary saving at all, which I have trouble understanding.

Initial up front cost may vary by $100, but once it's home; software costs are much, much, much lower. I have some pay software for linux, but unlike in Windows, or Mac, my Free as in lunch/beer software sources are huge. If I were to load a Windows or Mac machine the way I have my Linux machine loaded, it would represent thousands of dollars in software license costs, then multiplied by the amount of machines I run, currently 8 machines.

GNU/Linux is less expensive when you add it all up.

[starcannon]

This isn't any kind of official statement, so I would wait until others have verified what I said before going ahead with it, but generally speaking I'd say that Intel is the way to go. Broadcom and Atheros are not the way to go. And Nvidia and ATI should be fine in theory, but you may have to do a little rolling up of the sleeves with those.

For the most part I agree.
Nvidia and ATi work great with the Hardware Drivers utility with select newer gpu's.
Even Broadcom and Atheros work, but I agree that Intel is the way to go on wifi. It's just so much nicer when wifi works without installing additional drivers.

Anyway, hedgingly +1 hehe.

[t0p]

I was wondering if anyone knows where the free ubuntu shipit cds ship from?

If you're in the UK, the CD will come from the UK.

Canonical probably have regional offices or use regional agents. So I should think that, no matter where you are, a Shipit CD will come from somewhere on the same continent. Unless you're in Antarctica.

Or maybe Canonical have established an Antarctican office? If not, they should. Tux should be able to order from a local office.

[some-what-Gnu-2-networks]

Get a DELL, dude. they set up linux in some of their systems. And yes linux is about freedom, it makes me sad to hear somebody question that, sniff:(

[BuffaloX]

Interesting way of putting it, BuffaloX.

Thanx I guess. ;)



[snip:]
No matter what option you pick, it won't be the ideal, because we don't live in an ideal world, especially if you're a Linux user. Do what you can.

Yep it sucks, but that's exactly how it is.

[clevertomato]

I think this thread has generated some good thoughts... at least for me it has. Ultimately, I need to work on being a little less idealistic and let go of actually thinking I can have it all in all areas (hardware, OS, compatibility, etc.).

That being said, as an FYI, I really think I am reaching the point of decision to go with a Dell Studio 15 configured as follows (feel free to warn me if you see anything that is a horrible mistake as far as Ubuntu is concerned):

STUDIO 15 Studio 15 Notebook
Operating System Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium 64bit, English
Processors Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T6600 (2.2GHz/800Mhz FSB/2MB cache)
Memory 4GB Shared Dual Channel DDR2 at 800MHz
Keyboard Back-lit Keyboard
LCD Panel 15.6” High Definition (720p) LED Display with TrueLife™ and Camera
Video Card 512MB ATI Mobility Radeon HD 4570
Hard Drive Size: 500GB SATA Hard Drive (5400RPM)
Optical Drive Slot Load Blu-ray Disc (BD) Combo (Reads BD and Writes to DVD/CD)
Sound High Definition Audio 2.0
Wireless Networking Cards Intel 5300 Ultimate-N Half Mini Card (3x3) with MyWiFi
Battery 56 Whr Lithium Ion Battery (6 cell)
Bluetooth Option Dell Wireless 370 Bluetooth Internal (2.1)
Processor Branding Intel® Centrino® Processor

[Frak]

"You can't always get what you want"Mick Jagger

On a related line: "But we kick em to the curb unless they look like Mick Jagger" - Kesha

[eriktheblu]

Freedom != availability.

Take the ever so popular analogy of free speech. I have the right to my opinion and the right to express it. Free speech is not an entitlement to my own radio program, newspaper column, or spokesperson in government.

You are free to install (or attempt to install) Linux on any device you wish; just as you are free to tell a group of vegans the advantages of eating meat.

[alphaniner]

Freedom != availability.

Free speech is not an entitlement to my own radio program, newspaper column, or spokesperson in government.

Well said.