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The_Pirate_King
December 8th, 2009, 01:56 AM
Before I switched to linux, I have had to deal with a few linux users who were irritated at my utter lack of knowledge about their operating system and vast array of rage-inducing misconceptions.
This didn't make me any more likely to switch to linux. What finally did, actually, is when someone conceded that linux distros might be slightly harder to use than windows. That told me that linux users are not just arrogant nerds hell bent on convincing you to do things their way; they are actually capable of compromise. I started talking to the person I was arguing with, and long story short, I ended up installing Ubuntu on my machine.

So here are some tips for what to do when encountered with someone who knows absolutely nothing about linux yet is convinced that it's a terrible operating system. Most people on this forum seem like really nice, reasonable and helpful people, but I know there are more than a few of you who will jump at the chance to criticize someone on their lack of knowledge.

1. Don't try to tell them that Windows/OS X is a terrible operating system. That's the equivalent of saying "No, YOUR mom!" Reversing things that way is immature and not likely to prove anything, even if Windows/Mac IS a terrible operating system. Instead, address the claim they are making: that Linux is not a good operating system [for whatever reason they believe this].

2. Do not use the term "noob". Period. It is condescending and will serve no purpose but to annoy whomever you are arguing with and make you look like a jackass.

3. Try to limit ANY technical terms to a minimum. "Linux has a superior filing system and kernel and is far more compatible across multiple domains because it supports blah blah blah blah blah" is bad. Most people don't know what a kernel is, let alone know anything about what it does or why one would be superior to another. Try using simple terms, like, "Linux is known to be more secure", or "There are a lot more options for customizing linux", or best yet, say some of the things that you personally like about your linux OS. This approach is far more likely to be comprehended by your average computer user with misconceptions about Linux.

4. Stop assuming that the person you are talking to has malware. You don't know that they have malware. They probably don't. Unless they say their computer has been showing some symptom of it, you do not have to bring it up. You can say that their computer is more likely to get malware, but assuming that the person has an infected machine without having any actual knowledge makes you seem very arrogant.

5. Limit your argument to defense. Don't try to convince someone that linux is better for every application ever, because, quite frankly, it is not. Focus on saying why you use it and like it, not why they should use it.

6. If someone shows even the slightest interest in trying linux, tell them how easy it is, and offer to help!

7. Back up what you say with some sources. People are much more likely to trust articles they read online than posts they read on a forum.

8. Control your rage. I know the feeling when someone makes a blundering, idiotic assumption about something that you are enthusiastic about, trust me. But you'll make yourself look bad and you will further the stereotype of linux users as arrogant computer jockeys if you start insulting someone.

9. If someone refuses to listen to any kind of reason, just back out. This rule could apply to any argument really.

10. Try not to bring any kind of politics into it, i.e., don't say stuff like "Well at least my operating system isn't made by a megalomaniacal corporation bent on taking total control of your system!!!" That is generally bad. That will turn people away.

When it comes down to it, just don't make it about anything except the quality of Linux software, because when it comes down to it, that is the real reason to run Linux.

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 02:35 AM
I've managed to get a couple people to try it on a second partition, and they do play around with it learning the basics of the OS slowly over time when they have nothing better to do, but we're also talking about people who are computer literate to begin with.

For the average sheep in the herd of the typical PC user, they may ask me something like "hey have you upgraded to the new Windows yet?" And I just give them a simple "No I use something different." Sometimes they want to know what I use. I tend to answer with the easiest possible responses.

Them: What do you use?
Me: Linux.
Them: What's Linux?
Me: It's a free alternative to Windows or Mac OS.
Them: Oh okay, so how about the Lakers, did you see the game?

Now we can still be friends, I didn't disrespect them or talk down to them. I opened the door by letting them now there are alternatives without over complicating the conversation, They typically trust my advice when it comes to PC issues, and if they want to know more they know where to find me. or if their curious they'll Google it and learn more on their own.

We shouldn't be trying to brow beat people into trying Linux. It's one of those things that you will find if and when you're ready to find it. Sort of like a right of passage.

BuffaloX
December 8th, 2009, 03:14 AM
Actually I think most people try to do most of what you mention.

Point 1 and 10 can be a little hard sometimes, when someone complains and say Windows is much better, or MS is a wonderfully nice company.

Windows sucks as an OS and MS is evil, that's my opinion, if you disagree you are welcome to do so.

Linux is good but it isn't perfect, I doubt anybody tried to convince you it is.

Your point 5 is so obvious, still I agree I have seen some that try to "prove" otherwise, that's just stupid.


When it comes down to it, just don't make it about anything except the quality of Linux software, because when it comes down to it, that is the real reason to run Linux.

Sure the quality of the software is what's most important, but even if Windows is only a slightly better alternative for your needs, I think points 1 and 10 and FOSS and especially GPL philosophy are perfectly valid reasons to tip the balance in favor of GNU/Linux.
How much depend on your values.

Congratz on trying out Linux, hope you have a pleasant stay.

The_Pirate_King
December 8th, 2009, 03:27 AM
I've managed to get a couple people to try it on a second partition, and they do play around with it learning the basics of the OS slowly over time when they have nothing better to do, but we're also talking about people who are computer literate to begin with.

For the average sheep in the herd of the typical PC user, they may ask me something like "hey have you upgraded to the new Windows yet?" And I just give them a simple "No I use something different." Sometimes they want to know what I use. I tend to answer with the easiest possible responses.

Them: What do you use?
Me: Linux.
Them: What's Linux?
Me: It's a free alternative to Windows or Mac OS.
Them: Oh okay, so how about the Lakers, did you see the game?

Now we can still be friends, I didn't disrespect them or talk down to them. I opened the door by letting them now there are alternatives without over complicating the conversation, They typically trust my advice when it comes to PC issues, and if they want to know more they know where to find me. or if their curious they'll Google it and learn more on their own.

We shouldn't be trying to brow beat people into trying Linux. It's one of those things that you will find if and when you're ready to find it. Sort of like a right of passage.
Exactly, I agree completely. There's no reason to even get into a discussion about operating systems unless someone seems truly curious. But if someone goes all-out attacking the linux operating system based on some vague rumour they heard, it's nice to know how to deal with that without being a jerk.

@BuffaloX: Thank you, when I get a new Hard Drive hopefully I'll be able to have an Ubuntu partition up and running well. I understand that the Open Source philosophy is a very good reason to use linux, but I don't know if it's the best thing to bring up in an OS argument. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to address any misconceptions the person may have over Linux, and not bring up lots of peripheral stuff to complicate matters. Just tell them the basics, the the simplest terms possible.

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 03:45 AM
I've never had anyone go all out attacking Linux. I suspect that the reason is simple. People who know anything about Linux do so because they needed to, for one reason or another. I have heard people comment that they tried it out of curiosity but have quoted something like "It just didn't seem to work for me," or "It was a bit beyond my ability." Those are both acceptable reason, and to them I simply say, "well If you ever feel the need to give it another go, I would be happy to help you."

To those who come at me with the "Linux doesn't have enough acceptance" argument, I simply say, "it's accepted by those who need to use it, and that's all that matters." All that statement means is, if and when they need it, they will accept it. Personally I believe that when home computing goes the way of the cell phone and you have to pay a recurring subscription to access your applications, people will realize then that they may in fact need Linux, and they will accept it with open arms.

I firmly believe that companies like Microsoft will sell the very rope by which they are hung. All we need to do it sit back and wait.
:popcorn:

murderslastcrow
December 8th, 2009, 03:49 AM
I think, in general, just letting someone use your Linux computer with the effects enabled and see how fast it is and pretty it is can help them get curious, and when they ask you what version of Windows you're running, you can laugh cheerfully and say, "no, I didn't have to pay for this- it's a free operating system."

Then you can explain how nice it is to use, easy it is to install, and how well it meets your needs and some cool compatibility stuff like Wine if it's appropriate.

This will usually get people a lot more interested and see it as a viable alternative, and have some respect for it. I think the worst thing you can do is insult someone's operating system and act like a biggot. Just be inviting- you have some very good points, and I agree with them.

I wish we had more polished video reviews and ads to show people Linux so it could get more recognition.

steveneddy
December 8th, 2009, 04:04 AM
Sit down, open laptop, boot up, start working.

Someone walks up behind you:

person: Wow! What's that? The new Windows?

me: no

person: That's really cool. Is that some kind of Mac?

me: no

Person: Can I install that program on my Windows machine?

me: no

Person: Tell me what that is....

me: It's called Linux - it's not Windows and not a Mac. It's totally different. And it's free.

Person: So, it's not Windows? I see windows on your desktop.

me: (Looks at Person and smiles, then starts working again)

Person: Hey, Marge, look at this....he has the new Windows. Isn't that cool lookin'?

me: (Shuts laptop lid, goes to bathroom to finish working)

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 04:07 AM
Then you can explain how nice it is to use, easy it is to install, and how well it meets your needs and some cool compatibility stuff like Wine if it's appropriate.

The problem is, After what I went through trying to get the wireless adapter working in my new laptop, I just can't look a friend in they eye and tell them, Things are going to be easy. For most people if installation of a driver takes more than a double click of a mouse, are not ready for Linux and no matter how much they are impressed I will not down play some of the hair pulling moments I've had.

That being said, If they really want to go there, I'll help them, I just don't want to have to answer the phone 10 times a day to say "you need to put a sudo before that." I would rather put my effort into getting people to learn to fish rather than just take my fish, eat it and come back asking for another one tomorrow. It's a sad truth that not everyone cares enough to learn to fish.

kevCast
December 8th, 2009, 04:11 AM
I tell them about Linux, and if they're not interested I mug them.

RiceMonster
December 8th, 2009, 04:13 AM
I tell them about Linux, and if they're not interested I mug them.

Same, except I usually beat them into the ground, and then install Linux on their computer.

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 04:20 AM
I tell them about Linux, and if they're not interested I mug them.Same, except I usually beat them into the ground, and then install Linux on their computer.

Linux gangs (http://everything2.com/title/Authorities+Concerned+Over+Rise+of+Teen+Linux+Gang s).

Faolan84
December 8th, 2009, 04:28 AM
Same, except I usually beat them into the ground, and then install Linux on their computer.

Yeah, I do the same, but I install NetBSD which then proceeds to shoot their dog. Damn daemon possessed operating systems.

kevCast
December 8th, 2009, 05:07 AM
Same, except I usually beat them into the ground, and then install Linux on their computer.

And then steal the computer.

The_Pirate_King
December 8th, 2009, 05:10 AM
Same, except I usually beat them into the ground, and then install Linux on their computer.
I sneak into peoples' houses at night and install linux onto secret partitions on their computer. So that, if and when Windows fails to boot for them, Linux will be there waiting.

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 05:18 AM
I sneak into peoples' houses at night and install linux onto secret partitions on their computer. So that, if and when Windows fails to boot for them, Linux will be there waiting.

Or they send in their machine for warranty service and they get voided. lol!

chillicampari
December 8th, 2009, 05:23 AM
I don't talk about Linux at all usually outside of the internet.

LinuxFanBoi
December 8th, 2009, 05:30 AM
I don't talk about Linux at all usually outside of the internet.

That means your are following the first two rules of Linux.

chillicampari
December 8th, 2009, 05:54 AM
Oh geeze, I've got some catching up to do then, looks like some of y'all have graduated to Project Mayhem already!

lisati
December 8th, 2009, 06:05 AM
Yeah, I do the same, but I install NetBSD which then proceeds to shoot their dog. Damn daemon possessed operating systems.

Oh, is that why I ended up replacing the copy of Puppy I managed to get working (just) on my old desktop with Win98? Until now I thought it was so I could run some Windows software to make a backup some files by USB cable on an old laptop where I couldn't find an ethernet socket. Now I know it must have been a stray BSD-based distro lurking around in the neighbourhood.

Frak
December 8th, 2009, 06:14 AM
I have a better idea! Wait for RedHat to make a personal Desktop Linux and let them market it!





































Once you realize they'll never do that, go home. If what they use now works, why should they change?