I'm an Arch Linux reject

[keiichidono]

Long story short, I left Ubuntu because I was getting sick and tired of it and I left Ubuntu Forums because the discussion was always lame and childish and went to Arch Linux. The distribution was great, the forums were fine, and I found my place on the wiki contributing time and knowledge whenever I got the chance. I even made a bug report. A moderator banned me from the wiki and forums because I didn't like how he abused his authority to vandalize people's edits by reverting them and protecting pages he felt were his property and I reported him on the forums. Even though I never wanted to come back, this is the only place that I can come back to.

- Arch Linux Reject, Forcibly Returned to Ubuntu

[Joeb454]

Just because you use these forums doesn't mean you have to use Ubuntu :) there's plenty of Arch users
around here.

That said, I don't know if you have stopped using arch, your post made it sound that way though. Regardless, happy return! :p

[handy]

That's a sad story.

I haven't looked, though I expect that there is a path for complaint built into the Arch administration system which may help you come to a more equitable resolution.

There should be more than just one mod/admin' making such decisions as you outlined in your post, I think.

[MooPi]

Aren't we all rejects from something?
I was cut from 7th grade basketball. BooHoo!
I was once banned from a gaming server because I called the admin something really nasty.
Arch's loss is our gain, welcome home wayward son.

[renkinjutsu]

Are you in despair yet?


/five camera angles
. ZETSUBOU-SHITAA!!!



--
But really, just continue to use Arch, you don't have to use their forums. Just be sure to watch out for broken packages on their website. Welcome back to UF!

[red_Marvin]

Arch's loss is our gain
Only if you consider Arch an enemy. Which, imo, is a quite poor attitude.

[Icehuck]

Long story short, I left Ubuntu because I was getting sick and tired of it and I left Ubuntu Forums because the discussion was always lame and childish and went to Arch Linux. The distribution was great, the forums were fine, and I found my place on the wiki contributing time and knowledge whenever I got the chance. I even made a bug report. A moderator banned me from the wiki and forums because I didn't like how he abused his authority to vandalize people's edits by reverting them and protecting pages he felt were his property and I reported him on the forums. Even though I never wanted to come back, this is the only place that I can come back to.

- Arch Linux Reject, Forcibly Returned to Ubuntu

Sounds like the exact same crap that goes on at Wikipedia. Though I wouldn't stop using Arch because of idiot mods, I probably would look at other forums.

[RiceMonster]

Are you in despair yet?


/five camera angles
. ZETSUBOU-SHITAA!!!

I lol'd

[keiichidono]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys, I'm sure I can get used to here if I try.

[bodhi.zazen]

Thanks for the warm welcome guys, I'm sure I can get used to here if I try.

Welcome back, lol.

People come for the OS, they stay for the community.

[witeshark17]

Long story short, I left Ubuntu because I was getting sick and tired of it and I left Ubuntu Forums because the discussion was always lame and childish and went to Arch Linux. The distribution was great, the forums were fine, and I found my place on the wiki contributing time and knowledge whenever I got the chance. I even made a bug report. A moderator banned me from the wiki and forums because I didn't like how he abused his authority to vandalize people's edits by reverting them and protecting pages he felt were his property and I reported him on the forums. Even though I never wanted to come back, this is the only place that I can come back to.

- Arch Linux Reject, Forcibly Returned to Ubuntu I hope you end up feeling welcomed back. I understand your experience with weird mods/admins; I left a forum for a similar event that actually happened to many of the members. There is nearly no activity there anymore. Currently, I'm a global mod in another forum; it's the one all us members migrated to and all the staff and members couldn't get along better. There's no quicker way for a forum staff member to fail the community than by abusing their power and being power drunk. :popcorn:

[kevdog]

welcome back, lol.

People come for the os, they stay for the community.

+2

[squilookle]

Welcome back mate. I'm currently reading the Arch begginers guide before I attempt an installation myself. I'm going to try it when I have some time next week. :)

I'll stay at these forums though (although I will still have Ubuntu on my other computer anyway)

[K.Mandla]

- Arch Linux Reject, Forcibly Returned to Ubuntu
Don't worry, there are plenty of us around here who use a flavor of Linux that doesn't end in "buntu".

Although I am pushing "Cruxbuntu" these days. :KS

[Pogeymanz]

Sorry to hear that. Almost all forums annoy me at some point for those reasons.

[NCLI]

I lol'd

I lol'd harder.

Anyway, if you don't like the atmosphere here, there are plenty of other linux/tech forums you can frequent ;)

[the yawner]

Only if you consider Arch an enemy. Which, imo, is a quite poor attitude.

Arch's enemy? :D

Anyway, I've been meaning to try Arch since last year but I never got past downloading the distro. Perhaps on my upcoming holiday vacation.

[ticopelp]

Only if you consider Arch an enemy.


Arch killed my dog.

[kevdog]

Don't worry, there are plenty of us around here who use a flavor of Linux that doesn't end in "buntu".

Although I am pushing "Cruxbuntu" these days. :KS

Details on the Cruxbuntu build?

[sisco311]

Details on the Cruxbuntu build?

It's probably installed on an abacus. :)


@OP

Welcome back!

[chucky chuckaluck]

It's probably installed on an abacus. :)


that was funny.

[Hwæt]

Only if you consider Arch an enemy. Which, imo, is a quite poor attitude.

If you want to see a poor attitude, go into the ArchLinux IRC chatroom or the offtopic room. It's full of trolls.

[forrestcupp]

Just watch your back and don't do the same thing here, or you'll be out on your ear with no where to go. :)

[chucky chuckaluck]

Just watch your back and don't do the same thing here, or you'll be out on your ear with no where to go. :)

linspire's not around anymore?

[MaxIBoy]

only if you consider arch an enemy. Which, imo, is a quite poor attitude.+1

[user1397]

With all the recent arch fuss around here, I decided to try my hand at it just to see if i had the tech-savyness to install it. I was able to install it and get a gui going (gnome to be exact). I was satisfied with that. I didn't spend a week manually configuring text files and the like, I spent less than a day on it. Truth be told I installed it on a testing partition on my hard drive, I use something else for my main OS. I am not anti-arch or even less anti-ubuntu, or anti-any distribution when it domes down to it...but some people are seriously misguiding others when they say arch is 'easy to install and configure' and that a 'noob' could do it. I could tell you that if I were to go back to my noobiest of linux days, back when i first installed ubuntu (the first distro i installed in fact), I could not for my life have installed arch, even using all of the helpful wiki guides and such...

[openuniverse]

what's your favorite thing about arch? we never shut up about it here.

(i've never used it, but i'll probably try it someday.)

[witeshark17]

I'm gonna give it a look sometime too. I mean, why not?

[Skripka]

linspire's not around anymore?

iMagicOS is tho'.

[kevCast]

Welcome back, I guess? Arch is overrated, anyway. Debian & Slackware, that's where it's at. ;)

[red_Marvin]

If you want to see a poor attitude, go into the ArchLinux IRC chatroom or the offtopic room. It's full of trolls.
Being a regular there, I am very much aware of that and I do not support it.
Personally, I expect people to leave the "but they started it" attitude at the age where they are mature enough to enter the internet (or vice versa). The internet being what it is I know that that is high expectations.

[PurposeOfReason]

That's part of the reason I left arch so quickly, many of the users are very elitist (any many of those users don't deserve it).

[kevCast]

That's part of the reason I left arch so quickly, many of the users are very elitist (any many of those users don't deserve it).

This is, unfortunately, true. What distro did you change to, if I may ask?

[pcarter]

Long story short, I left Ubuntu because I was getting sick and tired of it and I left Ubuntu Forums because the discussion was always lame and childish and went to Arch Linux. The distribution was great, the forums were fine, and I found my place on the wiki contributing time and knowledge whenever I got the chance. I even made a bug report. A moderator banned me from the wiki and forums because I didn't like how he abused his authority to vandalize people's edits by reverting them and protecting pages he felt were his property and I reported him on the forums. Even though I never wanted to come back, this is the only place that I can come back to.

- Arch Linux Reject, Forcibly Returned to Ubuntu
I also was banned from the wiki. I went by manolo/gog.

I also called him out on his inability to read the guidelines posted in the Arch wiki. He didn't like that.

He seems to not enjoy people that contribute to the wiki in a greater degree than he does. Very immature. Not only that, he completely deleted every proof of this happening.

I had over 1000 edits and improved many pages...

Anyways, I'm now using http://sta.li instead of Arch.

Edit:

He wanted me to revert 100+ articles because the categories (2 lines of source code) were placed in the bottom (as the guidelines stated), instead of the top of the article, where he wanted them to be. The articles had wrong categories and I fixed them by hand, instead of using a bot.

1. He rages about Category edits: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User:Manolo

2. His user page, which used (he deleted it) to contain my replies and explanation for such edits: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User_talk:Misfit138&action=edit&redlink=1

3. The ArchWiki guidelines that say that categories should go on the bottom: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=ArchWiki_Tutorial_(English)&oldid=83795#Adding_a_new_page

4. A website admin that admitted Misfit138's mistake: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/User_talk:Thayer

Then I called him out on not reading the Arch Wiki guidelines (keep in mind that this dude is an admin), too bad I can't post the forum thread since he deleted it.

The guy, Misfit138, is a child. And he's slowly killing the Arch community with his stupidity...

[PurposeOfReason]

This is, unfortunately, true. What distro did you change to, if I may ask?
Gentoo. FreeBSD didn't like my ethernet device and I couldn't be arsed to get it right at the time and Debian was too "free" giving it a lot of hassle.

[Raffles10]

Arch mods can be a scream. They've got a KDE developer that doesn't actually use KDE so can't test his own packages. He released some package, libjpeg I think it was, that had some major bugs and the forums lit up with complaints, some people wouldn't let it go and got banned. The guy was unrepentant and all the other mods & devs rallied round to support him, closing ranks. It was a scream. :D

[kevCast]

Gentoo. FreeBSD didn't like my ethernet device and I couldn't be arsed to get it right at the time and Debian was too "free" giving it a lot of hassle.

Could you describe the "free" part? Was there something not in contrib or non-free that you needed? And are you running arch or ~arch on Gentoo?

[Pogeymanz]

Gentoo. FreeBSD didn't like my ethernet device and I couldn't be arsed to get it right at the time and Debian was too "free" giving it a lot of hassle.

Do you like Gentoo better than Arch? I'm sad to hear that you stopped using a distro because of its users, but I understand we all have our reasons. I stopped using a certain OS because of my personal philosophy about owning my computer.

[PurposeOfReason]

Could you describe the "free" part? Was there something not in contrib or non-free that you needed? And are you running arch or ~arch on Gentoo?
I could have used contrib and non-free, just don't like to. I use ~arch.


Do you like Gentoo better than Arch? I'm sad to hear that you stopped using a distro because of its users, but I understand we all have our reasons. I stopped using a certain OS because of my personal philosophy about owning my computer.
I like gentoo a lot better than arch. A lot of arch feels hacked together by kids IMO. Their glorious rc.conf isn't actually what it should be for example. Arch just feels like it's own world instead of a linux distro. It's hard to explain though if you've used it (more than just installing) and aren't a fanboy you get it.

[pcarter]

They've got a KDE developer that doesn't actually use KDE so can't test his own packages.
Sigh... a little antisocial distro with show stopping oxymorons everywhere. No wonder very few take it seriously.

I really do regret spending time improving their documentation.

[kevCast]

I could have used contrib and non-free, just don't like to. I use ~arch.


I like gentoo a lot better than arch. A lot of arch feels hacked together by kids IMO. Their glorious rc.conf isn't actually what it should be for example. Arch just feels like it's own world instead of a linux distro. It's hard to explain though if you've used it (more than just installing) and aren't a fanboy you get it.

What bothered you about using contrib/non-free?

[Tibuda]

I like gentoo a lot better than arch. A lot of arch feels hacked together by kids IMO. Their glorious rc.conf isn't actually what it should be for example. Arch just feels like it's own world instead of a linux distro. It's hard to explain though if you've used it (more than just installing) and aren't a fanboy you get it.

Yeah, rc.conf is a very dumb thing in Arch. Why don't ALSA, HAL and CUPS don't add themselves to the daemon list when I install their packages using pacman? How this gives me more control than just installing/removing the packages? I still think Arch is a great distro.

[ElSlunko]

Welcome back, lol.

People come for the OS, they stay for the community.

This! I just installed opensuse but spend all my forum time on here :x

[PhoHammer]

Just because you use these forums doesn't mean you have to use Ubuntu :) there's plenty of Arch users
around here.

+1
I'm trucking some Windows right now :o

[PurposeOfReason]

What bothered you about using contrib/non-free?
I've had conflicting packages and sometimes it straight up didn't work. It was probably just a case scenario but it is what it is.

[chillyomi]

:o I kinda like these forums i used to use arch linux but now i switched to Ubuntu. I love how much Ubuntu uses the color orange awesome;)

[pcarter]

Another moment of genius: an Arch developer asks why /etc can't be in a separate partition: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/17136#comment53893

Seriously? This guy is not assigned to a menial task; he is in charge of making the install CDs and he does not know why a separate /etc doesn't work. Clue: your system won't boot, Linux 101.

And Arch Linux is supposedly for advanced users. Or at least, only when it comes to trolling #ubuntu.

[PacSci]

I run Arch on a "testing" computer, but I'm not really involved in the Arch community since it's mostly just a server now. I haven't really noticed Arch elitism on the BBS - most of the people I was involved with were quite nice - though it's quite apparent in the IRC logs I've read.

I suppose mostly the conflicts appear when you get high up enough that you start conflicting with the other people that are "up there" and have their preferred way of doing things. It could be manifested more in Arch because it's a lot more "do it yourself" as opposed to following particular policies, and that attitude could carry over into the community.

Pacman's flippin' brilliant, though. It's pretty much everything I want in a package manager, especially since after the upgrade to Karmic dpkg takes a really long time to read the database.

[pcarter]

And here's another one fresh from the furnace: a new forum member posts a lengthy guide for new Arch users: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=86380

He gets flamed for it and an admin focuses more on trivial details like the posts' title rather than considering the contribution. Other members tell him to take it to Ubuntu.

Hey, don't post practical guides in the forum, else you get shut down for no reason.

[Grifulkin]

Yeah, rc.conf is a very dumb thing in Arch. Why don't ALSA, HAL and CUPS don't add themselves to the daemon list when I install their packages using pacman? How this gives me more control than just installing/removing the packages? I still think Arch is a great distro.

Because that isn't the Arch Way. Seriously do people not get the point of Arch. And rc.conf is a fantastic file, makes life a lot easier. And it's less complicated then if you tried to do something similar in Ubuntu. And Arch is different for once, a distro that came up with something original. Instead of the 8000 Distros based on Debian and/or Ubuntu, that don't really have any different feel at all.

[Tibuda]

Because that isn't the Arch Way. Seriously do people not get the point of Arch. And rc.conf is a fantastic file, makes life a lot easier. And it less complicated if you tried to do something similar in Ubuntu. And Arch is different for once, a distro that came up with something original. Instead of the 8000 Distros based on Debian and/or Ubuntu, that don't really have any different feel at all.

It is?

http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/The_Arch_Way

Which part?

Not this:

Arch Linux targets and accommodates competent GNU/Linux users by giving them complete control and responsibility over the system.
because adding "hal" to the daemons list gives the user the same control and responsibility as "pacman -S hal"

[red_Marvin]

Another moment of genius: an Arch developer asks why /etc can't be in a separate partition: http://bugs.archlinux.org/task/17136#comment53893

Seriously? This guy is not assigned to a menial task; he is in charge of making the install CDs and he does not know why a separate /etc doesn't work. Clue: your system won't boot, Linux 101.
For someone taking the ubuntu, as opposed to the allegedly elitist arch side, you are having quite high requirements for what should be considered Linux 101.


I run Arch on a "testing" computer, but I'm not really involved in the Arch community since it's mostly just a server now. I haven't really noticed Arch elitism on the BBS - most of the people I was involved with were quite nice - though it's quite apparent in the IRC logs I've read.

I suppose mostly the conflicts appear when you get high up enough that you start conflicting with the other people that are "up there" and have their preferred way of doing things. It could be manifested more in Arch because it's a lot more "do it yourself" as opposed to following particular policies, and that attitude could carry over into the community.

Pacman's flippin' brilliant, though. It's pretty much everything I want in a package manager, especially since after the upgrade to Karmic dpkg takes a really long time to read the database.

This.

[keiichidono]

I would say we should fork Arch Linux but that would be insane right?

[RiceMonster]

Here comes the flame war...

I swear there is almost no middle ground about Arch on this forum. It's very annoying.

It's either "RAAA Arch sucks It's users are a bunch of ranting elitists"

or

"OMG Arch is so amazing! It's absolutely perfect and I'm so hardcore because I can install it!!"


I would say we should fork Arch Linux but that would be insane right?

Right, because we're in desperate need of another distro!

[kk0sse54]

And here's another one fresh from the furnace: a new forum member posts a lengthy guide for new Arch users: http://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=86380

He gets flamed for it and an admin focuses more on trivial details like the posts' title rather than considering the contribution. Other members tell him to take it to Ubuntu.

Hey, don't post practical guides in the forum, else you get shut down for no reason.

Did you even bother to read the post that you were referencing to? Who in gods name would consider that a practical and meaningful guide?! The moderator was fully justified in what he/she said and responded appropriately.

All this ranting over a distro I don't even use makes me hungry... :p

[keiichidono]

Right, because we're in desperate need of another distro!

I'm seriously literally like 3 weeks away from trying out FreeBSD.

[Raffles10]

Because that isn't the Arch Way. Seriously do people not get the point of Arch. And rc.conf is a fantastic file, makes life a lot easier. And it's less complicated then if you tried to do something similar in Ubuntu. And Arch is different for once, a distro that came up with something original. Instead of the 8000 Distros based on Debian and/or Ubuntu, that don't really have any different feel at all.

Why do you think there are ~8000 distro's based on Debian ?

Because it's a mature, reliable, well maintained distribution with a productive release path that can provide any type of Linux experience you could want.

Arch didn't appear as if by magic you know, it was based on LFS. Perhaps the thing that sets Arch apart is the evangelical nature of its users.

[pcarter]

Because that isn't the Arch Way. Seriously do people not get the point of Arch. And rc.conf is a fantastic file, makes life a lot easier. And it's less complicated then if you tried to do something similar in Ubuntu. And Arch is different for once, a distro that came up with something original. Instead of the 8000 Distros based on Debian and/or Ubuntu, that don't really have any different feel at all.
From the Arch vs others: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Arch_Compared_To_Other_Distributions#Slackware


Arch typically applies patching only to avoid severe breakage and preserve functionality, if absolutely necessary. Both use BSD-style init scripts.

Hmm, how are sysvinit modifications vanilla? Isn't it runlevel based by design? Moreover, why aren't installed daemons enabled automatically (like someone else pointed out in this thread)? Gee, if I installed a program then it's a safe assumption I want to use it. Any other point of view is entertaining something that's far from logical.


For someone taking the ubuntu, as opposed to the allegedly elitist arch side, you are having quite high requirements for what should be considered Linux 101.

You seem to be overlooking the fact that he is a developer. And I'm also purposedly using that etilist sounding "Linux 101" remark to highlight that the distribution is not what it's cut out to be; i.e., for advanced users. Advanced users would know that would render a system unbootable.

Did you even bother to read the post that you were referencing to? Who in gods name would consider that a practical and meaningful guide?! The moderator was fully justified in what he/she said and responded appropriately.

All this ranting over a distro I don't even use makes me hungry... :p
I agree with you, but I won't overlook the fact that it's a contribution. Flaming for contributing is kinda off-putting, to say the least.

[kevCast]

Perhaps the thing that sets Arch apart is the evangelical nature of its users.

I laughed, only because it's being said by an Ubuntu user.

[Raffles10]

I laughed, only because it's being said by an Ubuntu user.

I don't doubt that there are some evangelical Ubuntu users, but we do tend to do it in our own forum, unlike the Arch evangelists.

[PacSci]

Arch didn't appear as if by magic you know, it was based on LFS. Perhaps the thing that sets Arch apart is the evangelical nature of its users.

I wouldn't quite call it evangelical (if I had to guess what you were referring to, a better religious analogy would be "radical fundamentalist"). And you can't really make broad judgements about the community as a whole based on a few flamers - most of the people I've dealt with on the Arch BBS were nice and helpful. It seems like most of the problems people have with Arch users come from the people who think using Arch makes them ultra-l33t and that all other distro users are n00bs who need to use a real system (and make crude jokes on IRC).

[RiceMonster]

I don't doubt that there are some evangelical Ubuntu users, but we do tend to do it in our own forum, unlike the Arch evangelists.

Right, Ubuntu users never preach to Windows users.

[pcarter]

Arch didn't appear as if by magic you know, it was based on LFS. Perhaps the thing that sets Arch apart is the evangelical nature of its users.

While I consent calling them a sect/hive mind, Arch was not based on Linux from scratch. Let's dissent with facts. :)

[Raffles10]

I wouldn't quite call it evangelical (if I had to guess what you were referring to, a better religious analogy would be "radical fundamentalist"). And you can't really make broad judgements about the community as a whole based on a few flamers - most of the people I've dealt with on the Arch BBS were nice and helpful. It seems like most of the problems people have with Arch users come from the people who think using Arch makes them ultra-l33t and that all other distro users are n00bs who need to use a real system (and make crude jokes on IRC).

Agreed. I was referring to the Arch users who like to hang around in here telling everyone to use Arch.

[kevCast]

I don't doubt that there are some evangelical Ubuntu users, but we do tend to do it in our own forum, unlike the Arch evangelists.

Yes, Arch evangelism to Ubuntu is what Gentoo evangelism was to Mandrake users in '02. It doesn't matter, and the user will ultimately decide what OS they want to run.

I personally enjoy people being excited about FS and OS software and figuring out what's best for them.

[pcarter]

On Ubuntu users compared to Arch's: I've never seen Ubuntu users preaching at the Arch forums. Is it coincidental that the reverse is true?

This hardly qualifies as proof, but still.

[kevCast]

On Ubuntu users compared to Arch's: I've never seen Ubuntu users preaching at the Arch forums. Is it coincidental that the reverse is true?

This hardly qualifies as proof, but still.

http://imgur.com/jo31P.jpg

[pcarter]

Well, Arch bbs posters don't reply with macro images!

+1 Arch

Round 2, fight!

[kevCast]

Well, Arch bbs posters don't reply with macro images!

+1 Arch

Round 2, fight!

...?

I'm not fighting with you. I was intending for the image to be playful. I'm tired though, so if it's fire you want:

Arch users are more knowledgeable than Ubuntu users.

G'night.

[pcarter]

Heavens, it seems that this thread has been making the rounds.

Misfist138, ArchWiki admin, is reading the thread. He recently deleted a guide I made for improvements for the wiki. Including improvements for screen reader users; in other words, blind users.

Deletion: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User:Manolo&action=edit&redlink=1

Seems like he doesn't care about improving the community, only about who does it. I guess his grudge trumps over those with accessibility problems.

[RiceMonster]

Heavens, it seems that this thread has been making the rounds.

Misfist138, ArchWiki admin, is reading the thread. He recently deleted a guide I made for improvements for the wiki. Including improvements for screen reader users; in other words, blind users.

Deletion: http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php?title=User:Manolo&action=edit&redlink=1

Seems like he doesn't care about improving the community, only about who does it. I guess his grudge trumps over those with accessibility problems.

http://omploader.org/vMnh4Zg/bawwww.jpg

[witeshark17]

I think it's a bit sad that people take personally the preference of one OS over another. Isn't that like Toyota owners randomly fighting Honda owners?

[pcarter]

image macro


User-Created Social Groups:
* Anime Otakus
*Arch Linux Users

That explains a thing or two.

[cariboo]

This thread is going no where and turning in to a flame fest. Closed.