PDA

View Full Version : Silverlight



sideaway
December 4th, 2009, 10:32 AM
Was browsing forums, following links around the web this evening and clicking a link, I was greeted by the message below, which got me thinking...

If MS made a silverlight client for linux/ubuntu, would you install it?

http://imgur.com/TQ1drl.png (http://imgur.com/TQ1dr.png)

inobe
December 4th, 2009, 10:39 AM
it's no different from running adobe flash or even an nvidia driver.

if they did decide to release this who will stop the millions that will install it ?

now it would be called moonlight, you do the research

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Silverlight-for-Linux-Is-Here-for-Ubuntu-openSUSE-SUSE-Fedora-and-Red-Hat-104412.shtml

SunnyRabbiera
December 4th, 2009, 10:48 AM
screw moonlight/silverlight.
Even flash has better open source implimentation

Pasdar
December 4th, 2009, 10:57 AM
Was browsing forums, following links around the web this evening and clicking a link, I was greeted by the message below, which got me thinking...

If MS made a silverlight client for linux/ubuntu, would you install it?

http://imgur.com/TQ1drl.png (http://imgur.com/TQ1dr.png)
Its called moonlight... you can install it. Though I im unwilling to use videos with silverlight... id rather use the lame flash. then again I also hope flash dies after HTML5 gets released.

SunnyRabbiera
December 4th, 2009, 10:59 AM
Its called moonlight... you can install it. Though I im unwilling to use videos with silverlight... id rather use the lame flash. then again I also hope flash dies after HTML5 gets released.

Then we will all have to use google chrome for that one...
Great bloody progress :rolleyes:

Pasdar
December 4th, 2009, 11:03 AM
Then we will all have to use google chrome for that one...
Great bloody progress :rolleyes:

Better than getting treated like a second class citizen.

SunnyRabbiera
December 4th, 2009, 11:11 AM
Better than getting treated like a second class citizen.

Yes but we get treated as second class by google too, thedy use linux as a backend for friggin chrome OS and there is STILL no official linux port of chrome.
Talk about being lop sided
If HTML5 becomes standard and it uses the codec that firefox cannot use thanks to legal BS we are stuck using a browser from a company that ignores its promises.

Pasdar
December 4th, 2009, 11:18 AM
Yes but we get treated as second class by google too, thedy use linux as a backend for friggin chrome OS and there is STILL no official linux port of chrome.
Talk about being lop sided
If HTML5 becomes standard and it uses the codec that firefox cannot use thanks to legal BS we are stuck using a browser from a company that ignores its promises.

Thats not true, I have chromium PPA added and they send updates almost everyday. To compare that with flash... i'd be happy if they work on it once a week. The changelog is pathetic compared the changelog of flash windows. Its a list of 5 bugs fixed compared to a very long list of things fixed and added on their windows version. The same can be said about ATI, etc. Chromium moved from being **** to being my main browser in just one month. It means they really put their time in making it great. Once this gets out of beta, it will be "Chrome". Though I like "Chromium" better.

Consider the huge audience of Google, they could simply ignore us and it wouldn't matter to them. We'd keep on using their products with wine... (or many would anyway)... instead they saw a lack of good browsers on linux and decided to dominate, which they did.

Maybe if we all move to chromium it will make firefox realize their browser on linux is crap.

SunnyRabbiera
December 4th, 2009, 11:21 AM
Yes but what about the privacy crap in chrome?
Hey firefox is not perfect i know but I know it wont give a crap about what I put on the net...
Cant say the same about chrome

koleoptero
December 4th, 2009, 11:22 AM
Maybe if we all move to chromium it will make firefox realize their browser on linux is crap.

It's crap? Since when?

openuniverse
December 4th, 2009, 11:27 AM
.

toupeiro
December 4th, 2009, 04:03 PM
Personally, I hope HTML5 squashes Silverlight AND flash. I hate proprietary crap, and the fact that I can't stream netflix, something I pay for, or get the news on my computer from some sites, because of a damn proprietary plugin. To hell with them both.

3rdalbum
December 4th, 2009, 04:51 PM
If Microsoft made a good quality Linux version of Silverlight, I'd install it the day I needed to go to a Silverlight site.

If it's not at least as good as Flash Player, then forget it.

I've never needed to go to a Silverlight site anyway as only a small subset of web developers are foolhardy enough to build a site that can't be viewed on ANY mobile/embedded platforms, any Linux machines or PowerPC Macs; or that relies on a plugin that even most Windows users don't have and have never heard of.

Skripka
December 4th, 2009, 04:58 PM
It's crap? Since when?

The FF community on a yearly basis stops and sayz "LOLWUT??!!", when they see how FF has become bloated and a pig at rendering compared to things like Webkit....then a few weeks later after much discussion, everyone shrugs it off and says "who needs speed?" and continues on using XUL/Gecko.

openuniverse
December 7th, 2009, 03:43 AM
.

SunnyRabbiera
December 7th, 2009, 03:55 AM
Personally, I hope HTML5 squashes Silverlight AND flash. I hate proprietary crap

But HTML5 is going to be more of the same as it will probably use H.264 and not OGG Theora, and knowing the corrupt standards out there you know as well as I a open source codec backend is unwelcome in a DRM obsessed world.
As seems the case as Theora has been dropped according to ZDnet and H.264 is not in chromuium so screw all three of them.

Frak
December 7th, 2009, 04:38 AM
You can see who are developers, you can see who are designers, and you can see who are neither. You can also see those who make half-thought-out decisions in this thread.

Silverlight is a great platform. It features better performance and a lighter base than Flash. I do still use Flash for 80% of my projects.

If Microsoft made a version of Silverlight for Linux, I would use it. Microsoft makes good products, and I will willingly use their products for that reason. Open Source makes no difference if the product sucks. Philosophy is something to be left to life, and not applied to software (those who do apply philosophy to software make me a sad Frak).

Sounds like a case of MicrosoftIsEvil™ (http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/microsoftisevil/).

Giant Speck
December 7th, 2009, 05:06 AM
you can see who are developers, you can see who are designers, and you can see who are neither. You can also see those who make half-thought-out decisions in this thread.

Silverlight is a great platform. It features better performance and a lighter base than flash. I do still use flash for 80% of my projects.

If microsoft made a version of silverlight for linux, i would use it. Microsoft makes good products, and i will willingly use their products for that reason. Open source makes no difference if the product sucks. Philosophy is something to be left to life, and not applied to software (those who do apply philosophy to software make me a sad frak).

Sounds like a case of microsoftisevil™ (http://www.tmrepository.com/trademarks/microsoftisevil/).

I have only one thing to say to that:

M$ $HILL!

liamnixon
December 7th, 2009, 05:12 AM
I have only one thing to say to that:

M$ $HILL!

Please tell me you're joking.

SunnyRabbiera
December 7th, 2009, 05:16 AM
Silverlight is a great platform. It features better performance and a lighter base than Flash. I do still use Flash for 80% of my projects.

If Microsoft made a version of Silverlight for Linux, I would use it. Microsoft makes good products,

In what dimension?

Giant Speck
December 7th, 2009, 05:17 AM
In what dimension?

The first, second, and third.

I think you confused the word dimension for reality.

SunnyRabbiera
December 7th, 2009, 05:21 AM
The first, second, and third.

I think you confused the word dimension for reality.

No I mean as in dimension X, Y, Z, possibly Q or Omega...
Perhaps even dimension K double Alpha with a pink cross

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 05:51 AM
Silverlight has been out for years. And yet, I've yet to accidentally encounter a single site that uses it. Even Flash is pretty rare, I only really see it used for videos and adverts - but it's far more common then Silverlight. Which could be strange because Microsoft is pushing this technology HARD... Silverlight is by far the most common topic of discussion in .NET User Group meeting in my area (which, btw, is basically a Microsoft sponsored shill fest) :)

On top of this, the good folks at Novell are working on a solution to the [possible] Silverlight problem called Moonlight. While it's only v2 compatibility currently, the SLv1 -> SLv2 was by the far the biggest change, so updating to SLv3 or 4 will take less time.

I'm pretty confident that Microsoft doesn't get the Internet and will be largely unsuccessful with Silverlight as a major Internet technology. It will actually, I think, backfire: people will migrate from WinForms and WPF to Silverlight. :P That is NOT in Microsoft's best interest.

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 06:34 AM
Silverlight has been out for years. And yet, I've yet to accidentally encounter a single site that uses it.

Netflix. Say what you will about the other somewhat-boring Silverlight applications out there, but Netflix is done in Silverlight. My girlfriend uses it, and if she were to switch over to Ubuntu she may not be able to use it (unless, of course, it works with Moonlight 2.0 yet)

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 06:42 AM
Netflix. Say what you will about the other somewhat-boring Silverlight applications out there, but Netflix is done in Silverlight. My girlfriend uses it, and if she were to switch over to Ubuntu she may not be able to use it (unless, of course, it works with Moonlight 2.0 yet)

I'm sorry. I have pity for people who willingly or unwillingly deal with artificial hardships imposed on them by malicious software. [-(

Icehuck
December 7th, 2009, 07:05 AM
I'm sorry. I have pity for people who willingly or unwillingly deal with artificial hardships imposed on them by malicious software. [-(

Netflix is malicious software now?

ctrlmd
December 7th, 2009, 07:20 AM
if its better than flash then yes

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 07:30 AM
Netflix is malicious software now?

Yes, their viewer is at least. It's defective by design (http://www.defectivebydesign.org/). That qualifies as malicious software in my book.

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 07:33 AM
I'm sorry. I have pity for people who willingly or unwillingly deal with artificial hardships imposed on them by malicious software. [-(

A "holier than thou" attitude will get you nowhere. It's about adoption. If she could use Netflix on Ubuntu, she would. She loves Netflix, along with several other SINFUL proprietary applications. But, seeing as facilitating ease of use for a user switching over to your "godlier" system is a non-issue since you don't feel for them or try to solve their problems, your comment is now null and void.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 07:35 AM
A "holier than thou" attitude will get you nowhere. It's about adoption. If she could use Netflix on Ubuntu, she would. She loves Netflix, along with several other SINFUL proprietary applications. But, seeing as facilitating ease of use for a user switching over to your "godlier" system is a non-issue since you don't feel for them or try to solve their problems, your comment is now null and void.

The tech world won't automagically become less restrictive if no one fights it.

Maybe you should talk to her about the evils of DRM. My girlfriend was an avid iTunes user. Not anymore. :P

KiwiNZ
December 7th, 2009, 07:39 AM
All that is Microsoft is not evil , not even slightly. One day I would like to see maturity here regarding their products instead of the usual M$ this and M$ that .:rolleyes:

I have encountered no discernible issues with Silverlight.

Icehuck
December 7th, 2009, 07:45 AM
Yes, their viewer is at least. It's defective by design (http://www.defectivebydesign.org/). That qualifies as malicious software in my book.

So the fact that they try to keep you from pirating the movie you rented is bad? Since you renting it, what right do you have to copy wherever you want? Oh wait, you have none.

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 07:47 AM
The tech world won't automagically become less restrictive if no one fights it.

Maybe you should talk to her about the evils of DRM. My girlfriend was an avid iTunes user. Not anymore. :P

Because usability doesn't mean anything for the sake of ideals in software. Thanks, I'll go get here started on torrenting, using some crap Free Software torrenting application that only works half of the time and has a dozen spinoffs. I'm sure she'll thank me when the shackles fall off, or maybe she'll just leave me for being pretentious about exceedingly minor details.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 07:48 AM
So the fact that they try to keep you from pirating the movie you rented is bad?

They don't keep you from pirating the movie, any bloke with a BitTorrent client can do just that. That's the silliness of DRM, it effectively does nothing to curtail piracy. I'm glad the music industry figured that out. Maybe the movie industry will too one day.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 07:51 AM
Because usability doesn't mean anything for the sake of ideals in software. Thanks, I'll go get here started on torrenting, using some crap Free Software torrenting application that only works half of the time and has a dozen spinoffs. I'm sure she'll thank me when the shackles fall off, or maybe she'll just leave me for being pretentious about exceedingly minor details.

"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Usability Deserve Neither." -Benjamin Franklin err I mean RMS.

:)

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 07:52 AM
"Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Usability Deserve Neither." -Benjamin Franklin err I mean RMS.

:)

"At the end of the day, all fundamentalists hold hate in their hearts."

-Bob Marley

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 07:53 AM
"At the end of the day, all fundamentalists hold hate in their hearts."

-Bob Marley

Good quote. There is a lot of things worth hating in the world. :)

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 07:55 AM
Good quote. There is a lot of things worth hating in the world. :)

I think the point was that fundamentalism is fueled by a human hatred against one another, rather than a disagreement of ideas.

Just look up the WCBC. They're got plenty of fundamentalist ideas, and plenty to hate. You'd fit right in!

SunnyRabbiera
December 7th, 2009, 08:00 AM
All that is Microsoft is not evil , not even slightly. One day I would like to see maturity here regarding their products instead of the usual M$ this and M$ that .:rolleyes:

I have encountered no discernible issues with Silverlight.

Yes but silverlight is the same MS nonsense all over again...

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 08:01 AM
I think the point was that fundamentalism is fueled by a human hatred against one another, rather than a disagreement of ideas.

Just look up the WCBC. They're got plenty of fundamentalist ideas, and plenty to hate. You'd fit right in!


Listen call me a "free software fundamentalist". I don't care. I think free culture and free software is the way forward, and I am not ashamed of letting people know this. And I'm not giving up on it's promise, or supporting things like DRM for "usability". If that makes me a collaborator with some of religion or whatever your implying, then so be it.

PS: I didn't know "WCBC" were so pro-free software. Sounds cool. :lolflag:

drawkcab
December 7th, 2009, 08:10 AM
Philosophy is something to be left to life, and not applied to software (those who do apply philosophy to software make me a sad Frak).

So philosophy applies to life in general, but not to software specifically--even though software is designed and used in the context of lived experience?

Aristotle must be rolling in his grave about now.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 08:31 AM
So first you claim Silverlight isn’t in use anywhere, then when someone points out one of the biggest sites in the US uses it, you follow up with some absurd non sequitur about the software being malicious.

I think it's safe to assume Mr. Psychopath’s sister doesn't care whether you think Netflix uses ‘malicious software’, or even whether you pity her, she just wants to watch a sodding movie.

Please, stop being obdurate, it puts people off.

First of all, I never said Silverlight isn't in use anywhere. I just that I never really encounter it. Reread my post.

Secondly, I think the best solution to DRM is to avoid it, and to educate others about how wrong it is. I do view DRM as malicious. This is my view on the matter.

I am sorry if I came out as "holier then thou". There was no secret sarcasm in that post.

I don't believe it's appropriate to be called a member of the Westboro Church because I believe in the same ideals which gave birth to the operating system this forum is about. That is totally out of hand.

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 08:33 AM
Secondly, I think the best solution to DRM is to avoid it, and to educate others about how wrong it is. I do view DRM as malicious. This is my view on the matter.

Then just say that. Don't act like you're some sort of higher being just because someone else chooses to use DRM. That's intolerance, or at the very least being condescending. Had you just said what you meant, then I would have at least agreed with you to a point and not misunderstood you.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 08:35 AM
Then just say that. Don't act like you're some sort of higher being just because someone else chooses to use DRM. That's intolerance, or at the very least being condescending. Had you just said what you meant, then I would have at least agreed with you to a point.

Where have I said I am a higher being? I'm a quite humble person in general, I am not sure where you get that impression.

DeadSuperHero
December 7th, 2009, 08:38 AM
Where have I said I am a higher being? I'm a quite humble person in general, I am not sure where you get that impression.

This part is awfully ambiguous.


I have pity for people who willingly or unwillingly deal with artificial hardships imposed on them by malicious software.

Mr. Psychopath's translation:


I feel sad for the poor sods who choose to go with proprietary software, oh woe to them. If only they could be more like me.

This is also a common problem the GNU project in general has with communication with people that don't agree with the GPL. (See "OpenBSD Mailing List with Richard Stallman")



Anyways, getting back to the point here...suppose Free Software could be used to circumvent Netflix's DRM through Moonlight? Would that constitute as a win for Free Software?

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 08:40 AM
This part is awfully ambiguous.



Mr. Psychopath's translation:



This is also a common problem the GNU project in general has with communication with people that don't agree with the GPL. (See "OpenBSD Mailing List with Richard Stallman")



Anyways, getting back to the point here...suppose Free Software could be used to circumvent Netflix's DRM through Moonlight? Would that constitute as a win for Free Software?

It it wrong to have pity on people who have to deal with artificial limitations on software? That's not pity because I feel I am better then them, that's pity because I think the whole situation is wrong.

And no, free software could not circumvent Netflix's DRM, at least not legally in many countries. The only real solution is advocacy against DRM.

openuniverse
December 7th, 2009, 09:06 AM
.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 09:19 AM
I agree it would be totally inappropriate to call you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, that's why I didn't, neither did anyone else in this thread.

Why can't you just man up and admit your second post in this thread made you look a bit of an ****? Instead of all these backpedaling attempts, why not just admit that you were wrong.

FWIW: I'm sorry that my reply to your second post was rude and abrasive.

That aforementioned ("West Baptist") post was deleted by a moderator. I don't think I said anything that made me look like four stars. Quite frankly, a lot of things I say is misinterpreted because I feel there is a very strong predisposition amongst some people for free software advocates, even on this forum. There seems to be some kind of strongly rooted libel that advocacy is elitism. Which is a shame.

KiwiNZ
December 7th, 2009, 09:26 AM
I agree it would be totally inappropriate to call you a member of the Westboro Baptist Church, that's why I didn't, neither did anyone else in this thread.

Why can't you just man up and admit your second post in this thread made you look a bit of an ****? Instead of all these backpedaling attempts, why not just admit that you were wrong.

FWIW: I'm sorry that my reply to your second post was rude and abrasive.

Please leave such matters to staff to deal with . Thank you.

phrostbyte
December 7th, 2009, 09:32 AM
yeah, people forget that the free software movement is generally a practical (it doesn't always sound practical) solution to what at the time was a real problem. now that the problem is more hypothetical again, the solution seems less practical- even though it's working better than ever. ubuntu has a philosophy too, for that matter.

In my opinion, free culture has never been healthier. I find that there is a growing number of people who use and consume this culture, but have hostile attitudes for the philosophy that creates and sustains it. Sometimes without even understanding the philosophy at all.

openuniverse
December 7th, 2009, 10:17 AM
.