i am SICK of "absolute beginner talk"... "how do i install ubuntu with a cd drive??!"

[earthpigg]

and so forth.


i used to be very eager to help.

yes, this is a horribly immature and counterproductive rant.


but, recently, all i want to do when i see the vast vast majority of those threads is yell "do you know how to google!!!????"...

...which is horribly rude, and quite counter to how we do things here.

no, gparted cannot partition your vista/7 partition using the default values without breaking things. this is well documented.

no, you do not need an anti-virus as long as you stick to the repos and aren't running a mail server. yes, really.

yes, the ubuntu installer expects you to move the slider over to a figure greater than 2.5gb after you select "install alongside windows".

no, the world will not explode if you do not have the super ultra mega deluxe partitioning scheme.

yes, running "sudo random-command-from-random-website" will break your system.

yes, 9.10 (which is 30 seconds old) is less stable than 9.04 and 8.40 (8 months and 20 months, respectively).

yes, this is the link to the ubuntu hardware compatibility list that i found on google as the first result.






well. this is the cafe, not any of the support forums. so, it is better that i take my frustration out here than there. thank you for accommodating me.

rawr.

[earthpigg]

seriously, i know this is totally immature, counterproductive, useless, and i know this accomplishes nothing.

i really do.

but maybe saying this out loud will get me back into absolute beginner talk and helping folks out? i dunno.

[kelvin spratt]

Just remember you probably asked silly questions to others once.

[u.b.u.n.t.u]

yes, this is a horribly immature and counterproductive rant.

Go for a walk.

[Khakilang]

A lot of people do silly thing and ask silly question. Thats why there is thing call vacation. Take a break.

[earthpigg]

Just remember you probably asked silly questions to others once.

very true.

*looks at his old posts from years ago*

[PariahVayne]

I find your attitude pathetic.

[Aearenda]

People in the helping professions (counsellors, psychologists, ministers etc) have to be wary of burnout, when they give more of themselves to help others than they receive in other ways. Helping newbies with Linux is rather similar. The best antidote is exactly what has been suggested - take a walk, or better take a vacation, long enough that you stop dreaming about helping people with Linux!

[LookTJ]

People in the helping professions (counsellors, psychologists, ministers etc) have to be wary of burnout, when they give more of themselves to help others than they receive in other ways. Helping newbies with Linux is rather similar. The best antidote is exactly what has been suggested - take a walk, or better take a vacation, long enough that you stop dreaming about helping people with Linux!
The beach! :P

I remember when I was posting for support, although most of them have been server-related support questions.

[blackened]

Just remember you probably asked silly questions to others once.

I grew up with a grandfather who would entirely ignore all frivolous questions. You were silent, paid attention, and learned. Only when you knew enough to ask meaningful questions would he respond. I learned alot from that man.

[YosefKaro]

There is no such thing as a dumb question, only a dumb answer. Absolute beginners is for "absolute beginners", not just beginners to ubuntu but even beginners to computers all together and I quote, "The perfect starting place to find out more about computers, Linux and Ubuntu." These beginners don't know about other resources available to them, don't know that they are supposed to read the 'stickies' first and lucky for them that they even found out about the forums. Of course there is going to be a lot of repetitive questions in that section of the forums. If you don't have the patience to help them then go help somewhere else.

-Yos

[Grenage]

You're right, but in the end you'll realise that life is too short. ;)

[Luke has no name]

I find your attitude pathetic.

Yours is worse. The guy gets fed up about something, comes to get it off his shoulders, and you stick your nose up.

I happen to agree with him, for the most part. The first lesson anyone wanting to deal with computers should learn is LEARN TO GOOGLE.

The art of knowing how to think and ask Google the right questions and keywords will save you thousands of hours of troubleshooting and make you look like a demigod to your friends.

[amitabhishek]

@OP; Man you have just stirred a hornet's nest...

[lisati]

One of my pet peeves is when people drop the zero from version numbers. It's sometimes hard to resist a stupid comment when I see such a post, even though there was I time I didn't know Ubuntu's version number scheme myself.

[t.rei]

I don't see the point in making a post like you just did. I know them. They are in every forum. "Bah, stupid newbies won't read stickies." ... I know that RTFM actually is a solution so sooo many problems. But honestly: There a sooo many users here that dont mind helping a little, and if that means linking to a thread three lines down.
It should not bother you. Someone might feel better if theres a simple question that he can help with.
Just go ahead and look for a problem that also challenges you. They are there. They are just not solved as quickly.

Remember: "What would be the reaction YOU would wish for if you had a question important enough to YOU to publicly post it on a board?"

[PariahVayne]

Yours is worse. The guy gets fed up about something, comes to get it off his shoulders, and you stick your nose up.

I happen to agree with him, for the most part. The first lesson anyone wanting to deal with computers should learn is LEARN TO GOOGLE.

The art of knowing how to think and ask Google the right questions and keywords will save you thousands of hours of troubleshooting and make you look like a demigod to your friends.

You think that getting worked up over something on an internet forum is not pathetic?

[Sealbhach]

A lot of people do silly thing and ask silly question. Thats why there is thing call vacation. Take a break.

That's what I do. I only go to Absolute Beginners when I'm in the mood for it. Otherwise I just end up sounding a little peevish.

The most annoying thing for me is when people don't answer the questions they've been asked, but instead reply with some comment about how their screen looks or something.

There is some payback though, when people say thank you (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=8338536&postcount=17).


.

[earthpigg]

@OP; Man you have just stirred a hornet's nest...

yeah, i know. but, on the other hand, off i go to the support forums. maybe others will follow suit after expressing their frustrations in this thread, or another?

[Grenage]

Lol, does 9.10/9.1 really make a difference? ;)

[lisati]

Lol, does 9.10/9.1 really make a difference? ;)
About nine months.......

[ukripper]

Just remember community matters! Helping community is indeed giving back something to the cause. Besides, you can always choose what subject matter you want to help users in. It is not like someone is putting gun to your head and saying you've got to help only those who you think are asking silly questions (in your opinion)? Think about it!

I try to help users there with much more deeper problems too.

[afeasfaerw23231233]

Lol, does 9.10/9.1 really make a difference? ;)

I thought 9.10 was newer than 9.1 ;) 10>1

[Exodist]

Just remember you probably asked silly questions to others once.
I once posted asking how to program mode-lines for XFree86.conf for my 17" CRT monitor to get the resolution up to 1280x1024 with good refresh..

Well that was 10 years ago and a much harder question..

[lisati]

I thought 9.10 was newer than 9.1 ;) 10>1

Exactly - if there was actually a 9.1 release.
https://help.ubuntu.com/9.10/about-ubuntu/C/version-numbers.html

[Kizzume]

yes, running "sudo random-command-from-random-website" will break your system.


yes, this is the link to the ubuntu hardware compatibility list that i found on google as the first result.

Tell me, what's wrong with this picture? Do you see anything wrong with this picture?

The first quote you're saying "NO, don't trust a random site you got from a google result, what are you, stupid?" and the next statement you're saying "Trust this random site, it's also from a Google result! It's from Google, you're stupid not to trust it."

One of the really bad things about getting support for Linux via Google is that if you search for an answer to a problem, most of the time, results from 2006, 2005, maybe 2004 come up FIRST. Something that was the answer then is NOT the answer NOW. Occasionally, even syntax changes. It's gotten a lot easier, it's gotten a lot better, but still. There's also a lot of bad information out there, and just as Windows noobs get suckered into bad things, Linux noobs get suckered in too. It doesn't make them stupid.

A couple years ago I would NEVER have imagined putting Linux on someone else's computer--NOW, as long as the only thing the person does is go on the internet, check email, and type letters, I do it on a regular basis, and if the person is a gamer, I make it a dual-boot system and tell them "Don't get on the internet with Windows" because as noobs, they're not going to be able to memorize all the crap you have to go through to keep windows from getting messed up.

[SuperSonic4]

and so forth.


i used to be very eager to help.

yes, this is a horribly immature and counterproductive rant.


but, recently, all i want to do when i see the vast vast majority of those threads is yell "do you know how to google!!!????"...

...which is horribly rude, and quite counter to how we do things here.

no, gparted cannot partition your vista/7 partition using the default values without breaking things. this is well documented.

no, you do not need an anti-virus as long as you stick to the repos and aren't running a mail server. yes, really.

yes, the ubuntu installer expects you to move the slider over to a figure greater than 2.5gb after you select "install alongside windows".

no, the world will not explode if you do not have the super ultra mega deluxe partitioning scheme.

yes, running "sudo random-command-from-random-website" will break your system.

yes, 9.10 (which is 30 seconds old) is less stable than 9.04 and 8.40 (8 months and 20 months, respectively).

yes, this is the link to the ubuntu hardware compatibility list that i found on google as the first result.






well. this is the cafe, not any of the support forums. so, it is better that i take my frustration out here than there. thank you for accommodating me.

rawr.

+1 it does get frustrating asking the same questions over and over again but unfortunately it goes unsaid due to fear of retribution. Much like suggesting another distro is better

[mivo]

seriously, i know this is totally immature, counterproductive, useless, and i know this accomplishes nothing. i really do.

Why do it anyway if you know all of this?

Anyway, the section is called "Absolute Beginner Talk", so if you don't want to deal with questions from absolute beginners, don't read the section. Take responsibility for your own actions.

It's possible that you've outgrown Ubuntu.

[ctrlmd]

not all the people smart and not all the people well educated and not all the people have the knowledge and education like you:-\"

[openuniverse]

if they don't know to google "why should i read forum sticky posts?" they won't read the forum sticky posts, if they don't read those they won't know to read the faq, if they don't read the faq they won't know to google it. well okay i'm joking, but...

frankly i have an "instinct" about what i'll be able to find on google and what i'll have to ask, which is probably 50% bunk or more, so i'm as bad as they are. if you bring a war refugee into your house, they just might steal something, even after you make dinner for them. if you bring a windows user into your free software forum, they just might demand you fix things.

people from oppressive regimes are stuck in survival mode, not consideration for others mode. think about the lack of "ubuntu" in their lives, at the mercy of microsoft and the whims of apple, and where are they supposed to learn to do things for themselves and others, if not here?

it's not an excuse, it's just the reality of it. why don't they just google? but they don't. you flame them, make jokes at their expense, get fed up, go elsewhere, find more of them there, and all they want to do is waste your time like you're some kind of tech support who does this for a living- and is on the clock. but that's what they honestly expect, even if it makes no sense at all. subconsciously, even i expect it sometimes. you can make rules and explain things logically and shame people, but fair or not, they will act on their expectations. is it still (usually) worth helping people?

the best i can do is say: hey, sorry for the times i was a presumptuous jerk. you didn't owe me the help, but you helped anyway, because you knew i was frustrated and dammit when is someone going to tell me how to fix this? thanks. it's the wrong person saying it to the wrong person, but people should start saying this because #3 implied, we've all done it- even those who knew better, on a bad day.

[Kizzume]

I think one of the biggest problems is that people expect Linux to do things the same way as Windows or the Mac, and that a lot of people who have been using Linux for a long time sometimes forget how VERY different both the mindset AND the language is between the operating systems. Things that are easy in Ubuntu are often hard on other operating systems and the other way around.

But when people hardly know anything even about Windows, and they expect Linux to be similar, the language barrier between the operating systems becomes a much more tedious task to tackle. I can understand why people might get frustrated trying to help people--but I also understand why people get frustrated trying to make the transition to an operating system that takes such a different approach from what one is used to.

I've been one of the WORST about getting frustrated with Linux, but now that I really know the mindset needed to get the answers I need, I've been much better.

[mivo]

if you bring a war refugee into your house, they just might steal something, even after you make dinner for them. if you bring a windows user into your free software forum, they just might demand you fix things.

Yes, let's compare a software company to an oppressive dictatorship responsible for the death of people, and Windows users to thieves. Why stop here? Let's compare Linux users to freeloaders who are likely to exploit the welfare programs of the countries they live in while other people pay for them.

If you look at Windows forums, like, for example: sevenforums.com, you'll find that Windows users are just as helpful as Linux users. People are people. Using Linux doesn't make you a "better person" or somehow means your character and personality are superior to Windows users'. Or vice versa. In fact, most people I know who work for charities and/or dedicate their lives to helping others are Windows users. The Linux users I know are all geeks who care more about computers than people.

[openuniverse]

Yes, let's compare a software company to an oppressive dictatorship responsible for the death of people, and Windows users to thieves.

i wasn't talking about thieves, i was talking about people who were used to giving up on one-sided social contracts. forums for windows users may be very nice, but corporations who try to dictate everything people do with the machines and software they pay to use are not- and it is a serious one-sidedness in the social contract, even if what you're referring to was at least slightly tongue in cheek.

if i offended you because you've experienced more oppressive regimes than microsoft, then sorry for the hyperbole. but joking aside, dictatorships aren't just dictatorships because of death and bodily harm- they are just as bad for trying to control everything, for censorship, for exploiting workers and yes, ruining lives. perhaps a closer parallel: do you know what all happened to the guy that invented fm radio?

i don't think my comment was that unfair. people are quick to put things like that out of their mind, especially if they're not directly affected. given all the things (http://www.eff.org/) that are being done in the name of "anti-piracy" for example, you really don't have that much room to take offense. ha ha, only serious. look, i'm not saying a = b. all i'm saying is that in the great alphabet of things, b starts with a. it's worth pointing out now and then. it wasn't to step on your toes.

[Xbehave]

Big woop, the counterpoint to this is if you ask anything remotely complicated you are guaranteed to get no replies on UF.

Why should they google when they can just ask for help? searching for linux help is somwhat of a black art, if you don't know what you are doing you end up worse than you started.

this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=221174) is the first result for "ubuntu dual monitor setup", it doesn't even mention xrandr or the fact that xrandr compatible servers break most static setups.
this (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=471855) is the first result for "ubuntu hibernate fix", it tell you to install programs that are included by default but makes no mention of quirks and tells you to use s2ram --force (which is pointless unless you add some quirks to it)

It takes an experienced user that recognises the problem all of 10 minutes to explain and fix it, it can take an inexperienced users hours before they stumble accross the right solution on google.

[issih]

Unfortunately stupid questions are an inevitable side effect of a distro that targets new users.

One type of person needs things confirmed at least once if not three times before they jump.

Another does things without thinking at all, breaks everything epically than arrives here in a panic, far too flustered to think clearly enough to get themselves out of the mess.

Yet another is just the kind of person who will ask someone next to them as their first course of action, rather than burying themselves in text to find an answer.

I could go on. people ask silly questions...and its infuriating..right up until someone asks the right stupid question, and then they win a nobel prize.

If it starts annoying you then stop helping for a while...go and start some discussions/arguments about something in the cafe...

Once you are back in a tolerant mood go back into the trenches for a bit.

[ZankerH]

This is why I hate acing as free tech-support. In fact, I'm terrible at instructing anything, I lose my temper way too fast when I realise the kind of people I'm dealing with.

But seriously, the forums have never helped me solve a single problem I've had with ubuntu. The man pages, documentation and google have proven to be a lot more reliable in that regard

[openuniverse]

Why should they google when they can just ask for help?

i love it when people say things that sound truly radical for a moment, until the moment has passed and they simply make perfect sense. this idea seems to work until the person not getting answered (because if you don't want to help, why reply? it's not your job) says "hey no answer?" a couple times.

in theory, it would be a lot of people asking questions they could easily find the answer to. in reality, someone who hasn't answered that easy question too many times will answer.

why not let new(er) volunteers answer the easy ones? so what if it means a question that could have been googled takes the community twice as long to answer? that's half of "instantaneously," i think it can be afforded.

[wilee-nilee]

LOL at some of you if your not happy don't read it, if you don't want to help don't help. There are more important things in your lives I hope, that how the forums are; should be the least of your problems.

The world doesn't revolve around any of us independently.

[3rdalbum]

Occasionally I get the same... I hate to admit it, but I do sometimes get impatient with the new users; "I can't get Flash to work, I've tried everything" (tried the repositories?) or my favourite "I removed Network Manager/Pulseaudio because someone told me it would fix my wireless/sound problem, and now I can't access the Internet/hear any sound!".

I guess it is a little bit of burnout, especially when I hear the same things every day. I was a newbie once, of course, I remember trying to compile Apache and getting the dependencies from Synaptic, without realising that Apache itself was available in Synaptic :-)

[pwnst*r]

let's hope none of those new peeps come to this sub-forum and see this crap of a thread.

[Rainstride]

seriously, i know this is totally immature, counterproductive, useless, and i know this accomplishes nothing.

i really do.

but maybe saying this out loud will get me back into absolute beginner talk and helping folks out? i dunno.
Its normal as can be it get tired of answering stupid questions. the thing you should always remember when helping and instructing the noobs though is this "The noobs don't know its a stupid question". personally I have the same problem with being annoyed buy dumb questions but if I can I still try my best to help any noobs that cross my path. because I remember what it was like when I started using ubuntu 2years ago.



Yours is worse. The guy gets fed up about something, comes to get it off his shoulders, and you stick your nose up.

I happen to agree with him, for the most part. The first lesson anyone wanting to deal with computers should learn is LEARN TO GOOGLE.

The art of knowing how to think and ask Google the right questions and keywords will save you thousands of hours of troubleshooting and make you look like a demigod to your friends.
sometimes venting is the only thing that will let you continue helping people. I agree and disagree about the learn to use google thing. asking the right questions in google will save you most of the time. but noobs don't know what to ask really, so it can get confusing, or be a waste of time for them, or just lead them here. the number one thing noobs should learn is "Use the ubuntu forums search function when ever possible" more than half the time I find the problem has come up here and been fixed by someone else or at least talked about. so alot of times you can get the answers here right away with details on what to do. then if that doesn't work use google.


Why do it anyway if you know all of this?

Anyway, the section is called "Absolute Beginner Talk", so if you don't want to deal with questions from absolute beginners, don't read the section. Take responsibility for your own actions.

It's possible that you've outgrown Ubuntu.
then who will help the beginners? you? there are a lot of new users each new version and new people who need help. and most help is community based. just because you don't want to help others doesn't mean other think the same way. (on a side note I can't stand when people like to pretend that there's some big difference between ubuntu and any other distro, other than different default install packages. and then try and tell other users to switch because of that imaginary difference. iv yet to see any real, and good reason. just preference, or hate of ubuntu's branding.)


This is why I hate acing as free tech-support. In fact, I'm terrible at instructing anything, I lose my temper way too fast when I realise the kind of people I'm dealing with.

But seriously, the forums have never helped me solve a single problem I've had with ubuntu. The man pages, documentation and google have proven to be a lot more reliable in that regard
its not required to help others, its just a good way of doing your part. and no one said the forums had all the answers. hell im still trying to get a lexmark printer to work for a family member(no drivers).


LOL at some of you if your not happy don't read it, if you don't want to help don't help. There are more important things in your lives I hope, that how the forums are; should be the least of your problems.

The world doesn't revolve around any of us independently.
true, but if nobody helps. nobody gets helped. besides its not a bad thing to donate 10 or 20 minutes of your time to help someone with a problem. I mean its not like your REALLY doing anything. just answering some questions to help out a new member. personally I haven't done this enough for a while and have been meaning to skim the forums general help/AB board for things I have the answers to and help them.

[Mornedhel]

Here you go:

How To Ask Questions the Smart Way (http://linuxmafia.com/faq/Essays/smart-questions.html)

[RiceMonster]

I'm really bad at helping people with this kind of stuff, because I'm much better if I sit down at the computer and do it myself. For example, my Dad decided he wanted to put Ubuntu Netbook Remix on his netbook, and last night the wireless decided to stop working. He's good with windows, but gets lost with Linux, especially when you have to open up a terminal. So I started telling him what to try, but in the end I just ended up using it to try messing around and seeing if I could fix it myself.

From one point of view, I can see where the OP is coming from. Such as that common error you see that says "Please run dpkg --reconfigure -a" or whatever. When I see that problem, I think "ummm it tells you how to fix it..." but a newbie wouldn't know what that means, and that's easy to forget. It's especially when someone just tells me something like "it doesn't work" that I really don't want to help them. I mean, at least make an attempt to provide some information and help me to help you.

Honestly though, I'm pretty sure I've only opened one support topic anywhere since I started using Linux, and I didn't get any answers, but luckily it was a bug that was fixed a few days later. I've been able to find solutions to all my problems just by searching and doing a little problems solving on my own. There's tons of help out there, but maybe some people don't know what to look for.

Just my $0.02

[Rainstride]

Occasionally I get the same... I hate to admit it, but I do sometimes get impatient with the new users; "I can't get Flash to work, I've tried everything" (tried the repositories?) or my favourite "I removed Network Manager/Pulseaudio because someone told me it would fix my wireless/sound problem, and now I can't access the Internet/hear any sound!".

I guess it is a little bit of burnout, especially when I hear the same things every day. I was a newbie once, of course, I remember trying to compile Apache and getting the dependencies from Synaptic, without realising that Apache itself was available in Synaptic :-)

lol thats better than me, for the first two months i couldn't figure out how to manage my packages in synaptic other than installing an app and thats only when someone gave me the exact name:D.

[wojox]

I did *this*, and *this* happened. That doesn’t happen with Windows!

:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p

[CharlesA]

I think that most of the threads I've started asking for help were mostly me not knowing the more advanced bits of Linux.

I might pop into the support forums once in a while, but only when I am bored and don't have anything better to do.

[whiskeylover]

Good luck getting more users to switch to Linux with that attitude.

[RiceMonster]

Good luck getting more users to switch to Linux with that attitude.

Perhaps the OP doesn't care about more users switching to Linux?

[madjr]

hav fun in the mud mr. piggly :o

i just tell noobs to install ubuntu with wubi. if no like then uninstall.

also the absolute begginer forum needs to have a dang filter like those "answer websites"

you type in question >next> a page comes up with similar results >next> if nothing similar than post question.

20 mins takes to program that. n only needs to be done in the begginer forum (95% are tech support questions)

i hate noobs starting random topics without searching requiered first. all topics start with "zOMG HELLPPP !!"

a title which doesnt help google results either.

is the admins fault for an unintelligent posting system and not taking advantage of modern efficient techniques. we're computer programmers that dont take advantage of the computer power, instead we rely 100% on wearing out hooman beings and having to start threads like this to vent

[Uncle Spellbinder]

When I was in elementary school, the teacher said "The only stupid question is the one not asked." I think for new users to Linux, that is even more true. For many, Linux can be intimidating. Particularly "noobs". I started in 2005, and I'm sure I asked some seemingly dumb questions on several forums my first year or so in the world of Linux.

Still, even now, find myself asking questions here in the forums. But when I find that I have an answer for a noob in distress, I try to remember my first several months using Linux.

[ikt]

You think that getting worked up over something on an internet forum is not pathetic?

Oh wow...

[johnboy1313]

seriously, i know this is totally immature, counterproductive, useless, and i know this accomplishes nothing.

i really do.

but maybe saying this out loud will get me back into absolute beginner talk and helping folks out? i dunno.

woooosahh

[Ric_NYC]

Just remember you probably asked silly questions to others once.


I know some people dislike this.. but...



+1

[LinuxFanBoi]

Listen, I'm a dealer in one of the most prestigious casinos in the world. Every day I have people come up to my table who have no clue about how to gamble and they come to me for help.

While telling people the same things over and over again every day all day gets very very old, the tips that I bring in don't.

So you know what? I don't even have to paint on a fake smile, the one on my face is genuine when I explain what Pass line odds are, how to split or double down or any of the other things that seam trivial to the seasoned gambler fifty times a day. It's not trivial to the person who's in need of your help.

In a lot of ways, the open source community is the same way, and if we ever plan to break into the mainstream we have to put aside any semblance of arrogance and genuinely want to help those who just don't know.

Perhaps you should put a paypal donation button in your signature so that people can give you a gratuity for your help. Be nice to people.

[Bartender]

earthpigg -
I remember seeing some of your replies that were right on the money and helped the OP immensely.

You like to help people and I am glad for that. If everyone just said, "Well, I got my problem solved, hurray for me everyone else can take a hike" these forums wouldn't be very helpful.

I've asked plenty of newb questions. Sometimes I was ignored. Often I found out afterward that a few minutes of effort would have paid off instead of bugging you guys.

I think that for someone who's feeling very unsure about all this Linux stuff, having someone respond to their question and showing them what to do is much more reassuring than reading the exact same answer when it was someone else asking. You know what I mean? It's something about the way people learn, and the way that having a real live person respond to them builds their own self-confidence a little.

I'm no Linux guru, that's for sure, but have gone thru the exact same feeling of "Cripes, how many times have I written this?" I've gone away from the forums for months at a time. Somehow I keep coming back :)

EDIT: Something else that might help. Sign up at a different forum, like Puppy or some such. It can give you a new perspective.

[Eisenwinter]

Yours is worse. The guy gets fed up about something, comes to get it off his shoulders, and you stick your nose up.

I happen to agree with him, for the most part. The first lesson anyone wanting to deal with computers should learn is LEARN TO GOOGLE.

The art of knowing how to think and ask Google the right questions and keywords will save you thousands of hours of troubleshooting and make you look like a demigod to your friends.
I agree.

I usually help newbies with IRC related problems, on some IRC channel called #beginner (hence 'newbies', heh).

Every now and then someone comes in and asks some question which is unusual. The helpers will lose their minds, in the sense that they'll all give really stupid answers, or say they don't know, instead of using Google!

They always come to me "Hey, Sid, help this guy out man, please". If it's something I haven't encountered, the first thing I do is to google for a solution. It really is easy, why can't they do the same is beyond me.

[RiceMonster]

They always come to me "Hey, Sid, help this guy out man, please". If it's something I haven't encountered, the first thing I do is to google for a solution. It really is easy, why can't they do the same is beyond me.

I agree. Often times it would even be easier for said person to use google rather than ask someone else for help. If most people google'd first, I think there would be about 50% less threads here. You can say "newbies don't know it's a stupid question", but if they just did a quick search, I'm sure they would have found the answer. It's not really a matter of whether it's a simple question, it's a matter of not looking for answers before you ask.

[lykwydchykyn]

I know how you feel.

But when I'm tempted to get smart-alec with someone asking dumb questions, I stop, and try to put it in a different light.

I think about if one of my kids decided to join a forum and learn about a new technology. I think about the kind of naive questions they would probably ask. Then I try to be the sort of person I would hope would respond to them.

[Dougie187]

Everyone has their pet peeves. I mean, It really irritates me when people:
1. Post several times for the same question, or bump every hour.
2. Don't like to listen to instructions.

Sometimes I just stop helping for a while, and then see a thread I want to help with and jump back in. But either way, it's better to help them and get their problem fixed than it is to get mad at them.

[JBAlaska]

let's hope none of those new peeps come to this sub-forum and see this crap of a thread.

Someone should start a thread called "I'm sick of your negative attitude...dude".

@earthpig, I here ya. people HAVE to learn to use google (even if it's just to search this forum)...anyway, you've helped many people so now take a smoke break, have a drink or 10...and have a good one bud!

[Bartender]

anyway, you've helped many people so now take a smoke break, have a drink or 10...and have a good one bud!

Hey, is this some sort of code talk? I know Alaska has more lenient laws than the lower 48...

[toupeiro]

Earthpigg: All the good you've done in posts aside, if this is really how you feel about reduntant posts from new users with potentially 0% computer skills, you need to find another way to contribute. This attitude isn't good for you, for the new users, or for the reputation of the forum. Everyone needs to blow some steam at one point or another, but you're not just talking about one frustrating incident.. This won't go away, and don't fool yourself. New users look here too. If you KNOW there are threads with the answers they need, sometimes teaching a person to use forum search, and google, and showing them your results is just as beneficial to that person as giving them the answer they asked for. Rather than get frustrated that they didn't do it, show them that it really works.

[JBAlaska]

LOL, no "code talk" would be "Take a 420 Break"

[fatcrab]

All I can say is THANK YOU for your help):P.

[NoaHall]

Don't forget
System -> Admin -> Hardware Drivers.

[KiwiNZ]

Want to know one of the reasons why Linux struggles for acceptance ? Read back seven pages.

No one is forced to read the beginners section. Only those willing to help with compassion and understanding should.

[forrestcupp]

@earthpigg

We all go through that at some point. I used to help a lot. Then I got sick of having 4 or 5 threads asking the same question right on the first page. Then I posted a rant in the Cafe just like yours. Then I quit helping and only hung around the Cafe.

The fact is that it's always going to happen like that. There will always be new people who don't know any better than to ask their questions in a forum that is here just for them to ask their questions. There will always be people who get sick of answering those questions. And there will always be new people to start answering those questions when the older people get fed up and quit answering them.

We get fed up, but the only reason these forums are here is so that these people can ask their questions.

[Psumi]

Want to know one of the reasons why Linux struggles for acceptance ? Read back seven pages.

No one is forced to read the beginners section. Only those willing to help with compassion and understanding should.

Seriously. I help when I can. Also note that some people (like myself) fail horribly at google.

[The Toxic Mite]

earthpigg, I found your original post to be really snide.

Just get over it - these poor newbies can't help being computer-illiterate!

:|

[Psumi]

earthpigg, I found your original post to be really snide.

Just get over it - these poor newbies can't help being ubuntu-illiterate!

:|

fixed

[slakkie]

I know the feeling, just pick out the questions you want to answer and you don't have to rant. But granted the level of "I should have googled this" questions are high on UF.

[NoaHall]

fixed

I disagree. He was right the first time.

[Psumi]

I agree. You were right.

fixed. Linux/Ubuntu =/= Windows

[RiceMonster]

fixed. Linux/Ubuntu =/= Windows

Cool story bro

[Psumi]

Cool story bro

So you are basically labeling EVERYONE who comes from windows to Ubuntu as computer-illiterate? That's quite the... well, I would rather not say.

[sudoer541]

OMG!!! this is so rude. If I knew members of this site were rude, I would never come here!
How disappointing.

[The Real Dave]

Lol, does 9.10/9.1 really make a difference? ;)

9.10 means something. Released in the 10th month of the year 09. 9.1 is meaningless. So yup, does make a difference ;)

People often come here expecting to get the same treatment as paid for support. They expect to be able to plow in blind and headfirst, and let the person at the other end fix their problems for them. Its inexcusable, when there are so many how-tos, for so many things.

Perhaps its better such people get left alone. Teach them some responsibility, and to not be so lazy. When I started out, I leaned on these forums for help and guidance. But Google was always my first place. If Google couldn't help, or I didn't fully understand it, I always found someone here willing to help. The reason I'm still using Ubuntu is largely down to this forum. So thank you.

[RiceMonster]

So you are basically labeling EVERYONE who comes from windows to Ubuntu as computer-illiterate? That's quite the... well, I would rather not say.

Nope. This argument is irrelevant to the point The Toxic Mite was making, and I don't think anybody really cares.

[Psumi]

and I don't think anybody really cares.

So basically everyone here is a troll? Yeah, cool story sis.

[KiwiNZ]

On reflection this thread is not what this Forum is about . I hope.

I am closing this now

[bodhi.zazen]

i am SICK of "absolute beginner talk"... "how do i install ubuntu with a cd drive??!"

When you feel this way it is an indication you need a break from the forums.

When you are rested, come back.