The REVERSE Windows Tax

[earthpigg]

Norton pays OEM's to include their crummy antivirus preinstalled.

I got a computer a few years back that included some niche MMO preinstalled -- I'm sure some money exchanged hands for that, too.

Conceivably, if I was willing to accept mountains and mountains of malware and crap preinstalled... how far could that bring the cost down?

I'm talking yahoo toolbar, AntiVirus 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_2009), Windows Genuine Advantage malware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage), 5,000 porn popups every time I open Internet Explorer, AOL preinstalled, etc, etc.

Assuming the more preinstalled crap I was willing to accept continued to bring the price down, that would be great. $150 desktop. Wipe the rubbish and install what I wish.

even if it came with some locked down BIOS, i could strip it for parts, plug the display into another computer, maybe use the case and power supply for something else, and potentially still come out ahead.

I can dream....

[SeattleOtaku]

Subsidised by corporations that way vs. Shipped bare-bones vs. Self-assembled. The further you go along the spectrum, the more you can steer away from being locked into proprietary hardware/driver issues. That's part of the "cost" as well. :)

[ZankerH]

No, that's just whoring yourself to the proprietary software industry. I feel dirty enough buying used hardware that came with proprietary crap OS.

[murderslastcrow]

Yeah, buying a machine that had Windows on it at any point also makes me feel dirty. XP

Barebones systems = da' bomb jiggy.

[Regenweald]

Norton pays OEM's to include their crummy antivirus preinstalled.

I got a computer a few years back that included some niche MMO preinstalled -- I'm sure some money exchanged hands for that, too.

Conceivably, if I was willing to accept mountains and mountains of malware and crap preinstalled... how far could that bring the cost down?

I'm talking yahoo toolbar, AntiVirus 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_2009), Windows Genuine Advantage malware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage), 5,000 porn popups every time I open Internet Explorer, AOL preinstalled, etc, etc.

Assuming the more preinstalled crap I was willing to accept continued to bring the price down, that would be great. $150 desktop. Wipe the rubbish and install what I wish.

even if it came with some locked down BIOS, i could strip it for parts, plug the display into another computer, maybe use the case and power supply for something else, and potentially still come out ahead.

I can dream....

I'm for it! Norton/Symantec whoever... their 60 day trial(at the end of which I'm left naked, so thanks for that oh-virus-mages)will last the time it take to pull an install cd. So yes, bring on the crapware. Spec out a system then get like $800 off thanks to software that will never see the light of day in my household.

[the yawner]

No, that's just whoring yourself to the proprietary software industry. I feel dirty enough buying used hardware that came with proprietary crap OS.
How so? When you don't even intend to use the purchased crapware. From where I stand, I'm seeing that translates to a couple of companies shouldering my expenses for a new system without ever getting anything in return.

[Praxicoide]

If you could know for certain that it would all uninstall cleanly at least.

I'm not talking about Norton, but other bloatware which come tied to drivers. Medium proficiency computer users can get rid of all that, but the sad situation is that most keep their system as it came out of the box. It's a social burden, a cost that I would rather avoid. You're talking about 50 bucks, tops.

EDIT:

I was reminded of this for some reason. :D

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/3580/killlmeee.gif

[the yawner]

If you're intention is to wipe out the preinstalled OS completely then I don't think that will be much of a problem eh? Salvaging a crap-laden OEM installation is another matter.

[Tipped OuT]

Norton pays OEM's to include their crummy antivirus preinstalled.

I got a computer a few years back that included some niche MMO preinstalled -- I'm sure some money exchanged hands for that, too.

Conceivably, if I was willing to accept mountains and mountains of malware and crap preinstalled... how far could that bring the cost down?

I'm talking yahoo toolbar, AntiVirus 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_2009), Windows Genuine Advantage malware (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Genuine_Advantage), 5,000 porn popups every time I open Internet Explorer, AOL preinstalled, etc, etc.

Assuming the more preinstalled crap I was willing to accept continued to bring the price down, that would be great. $150 desktop. Wipe the rubbish and install what I wish.

even if it came with some locked down BIOS, i could strip it for parts, plug the display into another computer, maybe use the case and power supply for something else, and potentially still come out ahead.

I can dream....

Just re-install Windows and use the serial key it came with.

Or better yet, install Linux.

Cause' nothing is going to change, it's business.

[mivo]

No, that's just whoring yourself to the proprietary software industry. I feel dirty enough buying used hardware that came with proprietary crap OS.

Yet you continue to use this forum here even though it runs on proprietary software, and is operated by a company that also develops proprietary products (Ubuntu One for example). Isn't that inconsistent?

[speedwell68]

Yet you continue to use this forum here even though it runs on proprietary software, and is operated by a company that also develops proprietary products (Ubuntu One for example). Isn't that inconsistent?

On a computer that undoubtedly has proprietary firmware.

[madhi19]

My main rig is pre-own and I can't believe that somebody wasted time installing a fresh XP just to sell it to me. I told the owner not to bother with anything fancy since the minute I got the rig home I just install Jaunty on it!

[Boni Boy Blue]

I build my own computers so I never have this problem and it's a cheaper method of buying a new computer, because you know what you need and you know what you get this way.

[3rdalbum]

I build my own computers so I never have this problem and it's a cheaper method of buying a new computer, because you know what you need and you know what you get this way.

I build my own computers too, but I think the OP's point was that the cost of a computer that you buy from the shops is less than what it could have been, because software manufacturers subsidize the machine in return for the ability to put trial versions of their software onto it.

Computer with Windows XP: $500
Computer with Windows XP and lots of trial versions ("crapware"): $450

See? The computer manufacturers get paid to put the trial versions on it, the software manufacturers hope that you'll buy the full versions and that they'll make their money back.

It's an interesting idea: very cheap computers, but full of junk. It would be great for anyone who'd just install Linux or their own copy of Windows; but I think I'd still rather not buy one of those computers anyway. The thought of buying a computer with THAT much proprietary software on it makes me uneasy.

[Tristam Green]

Yet you continue to use this forum here even though it runs on proprietary software, and is operated by a company that also develops proprietary products (Ubuntu One for example). Isn't that inconsistent?

I laughed. Zanks, you must feel all kinds of nasty.

[ugm6hr]

See? The computer manufacturers get paid to put the trial versions on it, the software manufacturers hope that you'll buy the full versions and that they'll make their money back.

It's an interesting idea: very cheap computers, but full of junk. It would be great for anyone who'd just install Linux or their own copy of Windows; but I think I'd still rather not buy one of those computers anyway. The thought of buying a computer with THAT much proprietary software on it makes me uneasy.

I personally have no objection to as much crap as they want to provide on my computer; I have never bought an OEM computer and no done a full reinstall immediately of some OS or other.

The problem I have with this is that the commercial basis for it takes advantage of the incapable bon a population basis (rather than on an individual basis), as a lot of commercial enterprises do... In this case, it takes advantage of the technologically challenged; whether this is acceptable...

My last "computer" was an Ubuntu netbook (which, in fact, I didn't do an immediate reinstall on), the time before was a DIY desktop, but I am not sure if I would be able to find and spec a replacement laptop without OS if I needed a replacement for my current one. Given I personally shop around for the best deal I can find, I have no doubt that it will be loaded with crapware galore. So while I morally object to customers being driven towards purchasing options that they fell they have no choice over, I financially object to having to pay more than is necessary for a product unless it is truly a "Fair Trade" product.

[almufadado]

We all live, even those who do not have nothing to eat, in capitalism and market driven societies.

The aim of the companies is to get the max amount of money to the shareholders, and the modo "we aim to serve the client" is simply became a fairy tail.

A computer box is not simply a the metal (hopefully) sheet box, it is what is inside, those pieces of hardware that form it. This is what about 10% of the computer market thinks.

The rest, the other 80% of the market buy a computer by choosing a "beautiful box", by it's color (remember those mac's?), by it's height, and the seller will tell (it's is role!) the buyer that is quick and that it does all that the buyer will ask for.

On the software everybody know windows, and other big players, by the advertising money they put into the market. They will get want is "given away" like candy, even if afterwards they find it's a limited time license, it's shareware, it not the full featured release.

In the end most consumers, are buying and seeking an electric appliance, not a configurable, expansible, interchangeable and prone to error computer system.

Ongoing, there is the hardware/software ratio, either price related or feature availability. A Mac system is more expensive because it generally come with a more extensive set of software, on the other hand a windows based system is cheaper but it only carries the basic software (better yet only an OS). Looking at the price tags people will make the basic comparison based on price not on features.

The cheap buy, in the end will prove it self to be more expensive. I have been faced with people that both went to the brand assistance/reseller and left with their eyes rolling due to the asked price for a simple upgrade, and the inverse asking me for a price and then returning for the "cheap labor".

This cheap buys also hide the low end hardware, the all-in-one motherboard the fries after a year or two, the no fan system, the celeron or the cheap graphic chipset that do not run the "$60 game I bought to my kid" (and he has to spend $150-$200 for the game to run properly !), and so on.

I went nuts when a system I had here was in total cheaper than the "petty box", given that the box sold alone is expensive. More the guy come to me because his computer was sleeping ... "sleeping" !?!?, I took it apart to find that it had been working with the plastic strip that protect the base of the cpu cooler still on !!?!?!? ... and this for a year or so ... he had already went to the BIG reseller support desk, and they tried to charge him $50 for a add-on $5 fan and they not even bother (on look into it !) and remove the strip !!?!!?!? this is the state of the current market !

Norton has became also a ... do not even know what to call it. They sell at high prices crappy products, with lot's of screens but not usability. I still can forget the money they took from me while I was, unknowingly, getting virus directly from their update system. I found some strange behavior on some systems and installed another antivirus that found some messy virus and 2 bad worms using norton to get their way !!! Asked their support and they hinted to me to buy the next version !

Conclusion : Always watch for this "best buys", as sometimes they aren't worth the metal they are enclose on.

[chrisjsmith]

Jeez - it's just software. Remove it, or rebuild the machine without it on.

If anyone doesn't do that, it is their problem.