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cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 10:41 AM
I'm 31 and have been working in kitchens for 15 years. it worked out well for all the years I spent in bands touring but now i am ready for the next chapter of my life.

I want to marry the girl I'm with, but cant afford the ring, living paycheck to paycheck you know.

about six years ago I built the first computer i have ever owned. Had some wonderful help from the computer shop I bought the stuff at. I killed it overclocking the cpu. live and learn. ha! I developed an immediate affinity.

A lot of my friends come to me with their computer problems. easy fixes, free beer, a little extra cash...

The point is I want out of the kitchen...but I dont know where to start. i could probably spend the week learning the individual chip sets and get an A+ cert. But the last thing i want to do is support.

I dont know what area of this field i want to get into...(but mainly i want to get started soon!!!)

a friend of mine is a network admin at the University of Florida and keeps suggesting .NET developement to me although he is a linux guy. I dont want to work corporate!
a couple of other friends work at a startup thats doing pretty good. they said become proficient with BASH and then learn some OOP, particularly RUBY.

i just made the jump to linux... and so far BASH is a godsend.
my programing knowledge is minimal. though i can read C# and Python and follow whats going on for the most part.

I guess what I'm looking for is any suggestions, as well as a reassuring "none of no exactly what we want to do in this field."

what would be the suggested path for me to take into...?

toupeiro
December 1st, 2009, 11:00 AM
man, startups in IT can be very hard, and paycheck to paycheck, because you have so much competition that can undercut you and undersell you because they order in mass quantities and/or can outsource programming to places where it can be done at a fraction of the cost it would take to hire an american worker to do it. I'm not trying to purposely deter you, but I'm being honest and upfront with you. Lots of people look at IT as the greenest grass on the other side of their fence, not realizing a) how flooded the US market is with really good techs and programmers, and b) how much commitment its going to take to work your way up the chain, and thats without the burden of trying to actually run the business end of it too.

If thats the way you want to go, then you need to start advertising yourself. Consider that you're going to also need to get some basic industry certifications (A+, Network+, Linux+ etc etc.) Most places want the degrees but will substitute X years of experience these days most of the time, which is something you unfortunately dont have yet. School is expensive, so that isn't always the first available option for everyone. So, start putting out flyers at colleges for side jobs, put out newspaper ads, use word of mouth, and build yourself some experience and get testimonials. You're going to need to look in papers for small programmer contract jobs, and you may have to bid low on some of your first jobs just to get a reputation built. Definitely don't leave the kitchen until you've got a few steady customers. Going your own is cuthroat and tough...

You may not want to go corporate, but if you're thinking of starting a family, think home, think kids, think medical insurance and retirement. Corporate may be the best way to go for you, giving you the security for your family and doing the job you want. It could also build a lot of skills and contacts so that maybe ten years down the road, you can re-address the idea of doing your own business once you have some experience built up. Beginner skills is not where you want to be when you're starting an IT business. You want some experience so that you can hit the ground running no matter what your customers environment may be. Get that first, THEN look at starting your own IT business.

Thats just my .02. Best of luck to you!

dvlchd3
December 1st, 2009, 11:01 AM
Well Computer Science is rather generic field, although typically requires a 4-year degree. Comp Sci will offer you the greatest amount of choices in software part of computers.

CompTIA offers several certifications beyond just A+. Although not required, I recommend taking a class at your local community college or some online college or just buy a book and go through it. CompTIA offers Linux+, Security+, Network+, etc (http://www.comptia.org/certifications/listed.aspx) These certifications are typically geared towards IT work, rather than programming.

Also, if you are interested programming, obviously Computer Science, but also Software Engineering and a Computer Programmer degree would accomplish this. I believe these are only 2-year programs and will usually give you a higher starting salary then just a certification.

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 11:06 AM
the hard truth, but truth none the less!

so, are you saying i should possibly get an A.S. and do the .NET thing for now?
or just work at the A+, NET+(already considered), linux+(also considered)?

toupeiro
December 1st, 2009, 11:18 AM
the hard truth, but truth none the less!

so, are you saying i should possibly get an A.S. and do the .NET thing for now?
or just work at the A+, NET+(already considered), linux+(also considered)?

Warning: The following statement is highly opinioniated by someone who has seen this happen all too often:

.NET is the language du jour from Microsoft. It's all the hype right now, like ActiveX used to be, like MSVM used to be (kudo's to those who remember that). Point is, when they pull that rug out from under you, and they will, you have a lot of .NET training, and nobody looking for .NET programmers, so you'll have to reinvest all that money into training that you spent on .NET for the next flavour for a few years. Learn .NET, but don't invest any great deal of money into training on it just yet. Wait until you have your basics covered, then choose .NET to specialize in if you want to. Don't build that up as your bread and butter. There are other things you need more right now. I almost did this with software packaging, and while software packaging paid really good, it turned out to be a part of IT that is very contract oriented and not alltogether stable and long term. What it did do, is make me a much better systems administrator which is what I was before I got into packaging and pretty much what I still am.

### End of Highly opinioniated statement.

Get the broad stuff out of the way. Get your A.S, look at your A+/NET+ etc etc.. and definitely start working on contacts and getting your name out there. Some colleges actually offer a student/employment status where you are working for the college supporting apps/network/whatever, and they pay you plus you get credit. That may be something else to look into. Talk to counselors about internships! That's another huge way to get yourself exposed to whats out there.

wilee-nilee
December 1st, 2009, 11:20 AM
Financial Aid is easy to get to attend college, this may be the best time to go back to school with a difficult economy.
http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/
Go to college let the economy come back up, and jump in when you graduate. This link is the one you want to apply for financial aid for free it is a government site.

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 11:32 AM
toupeiro--- the only problem with the A.S. is that at most community colleges right now they are mainly teaching .NET development. it accounts for about 25 of the 46 credit hours for an A.S.

oh...if you consider past trends your statement is not opinionated, but rather insightful.

and thank you.

you have been very helpful thus far.

mivo
December 1st, 2009, 11:36 AM
If you already know some Python, there is no need to learn Ruby. I prefer Ruby, but Python's wider spread and the languages are fairly similar. It's easier to find free tutorials, online books and modules than it is for Ruby.

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 11:36 AM
http://www.fafsa.ed.gov/
Go to college let the economy come back up, and jump in when you graduate. This link is the one you want to apply for financial aid for free it is a government site.

im familiar with the FAFSA
and the money i can get going to school is why i have been considering it...but friends in the field keep telling me to not waste my time..i dont get it...do you have a degree?

toupeiro
December 1st, 2009, 11:37 AM
toupeiro--- the only problem with the A.S. is that at most community colleges right now they are mainly teaching .NET development. it accounts for about 25 of the 46 credit hours for an A.S.

oh...if you consider past trends your statement is not opinionated, but rather insightful.

and thank you.

you have been very helpful thus far.

In that case, I'd follow the curriculum. If they are slipstreaming .NET into your college credential, it certainly can't hurt you. You'll have the degree, and some .NET knowledge which is not a bad tool to have in your toolbox, so long as its not your only one. ;)

Internship inquiry,College part time employment inquiry, side jobs and contract bids, and studying. I think thats probably a good formula, and you're already walking down that path. :)

wilee-nilee
December 1st, 2009, 11:44 AM
im familiar with the FAFSA
and the money i can get going to school is why i have been considering it...but friends in the field keep telling me to not waste my time..i dont get it...do you have a degree?

I am pursuing two bachelors degrees right now, but not in computer science. I also returned to college at 45 years old with about 72 credits from studying music earlier. I am having a great time it is a privilege to be able to do this but this is my point of view. I also own my own business that was and still is quite profitable when I feel like working, but decided to pursue loftier goals.

I also worked in the kitchen for years from saute to management but the work was tiresome and underpaid.

toupeiro
December 1st, 2009, 11:49 AM
im familiar with the FAFSA
and the money i can get going to school is why i have been considering it...but friends in the field keep telling me to not waste my time..i dont get it...do you have a degree?

I don't...

For the most part, I'm self taught. At this point, I've had companies send me to various training classes, but I didn't have a degree or certs when I started in IT (A+ and Network+ weren't around yet). I won't lie and tell you I didn't lose some job opportunities because of it. I was not a good student. I applied for a 2 week contract IT job when I was 17, and worked there for 5 years. I learned a ton of stuff across a lot of different IT disciplines, and was able to take that with me and apply it everywhere I've worked, and I've been doing that all the way up to today. I've been very, very fortunate. I was just really dedicated, pulled all the late nighters (still do), and worked my way to where I am, and I had people willing to take a chance on me, and it paid off for me, and for them. I'm not burnt out though because I absolutely love my job and what I do for a living. Its never work if you love it.

A degree certainly would have fast-tracked me in some ways, but in another respect, I've worn just about every hat there is to wear in IT at one point in time or another and I can't say I'd trade my experience and the reputation I've earned over the years with peers and employers for any piece of paper at this point in my life. I may still get my degree one day, I want to, but right now I have other priorities in life. :)

If you have a wife and kids, sometimes those late nighters can be hard on the family life. At the time, I didn't. Its all about perspective. Those people telling you not to waste their time are probably saying it from their own experiences. My experiences tell me to caution you about starting something IT related at this point in time for you, but I'd never warn you away from IT. If you like technology, its too much fun and too rewarding not to, but its also very demanding, and at times people think it can feel thankless depending on where you work because you rarely hear when things work great, but always hear when they don't work well. ;) You take the good with the bad. ;)

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 11:51 AM
the problem is i dont think i wanna do development, maybe database admin or something like that , but then again i gotsta get paid and that is apparently the easyist of routes...or so it seems

toupeiro
December 1st, 2009, 12:00 PM
the problem is i dont think i wanna do development, maybe database admin or something like that , but then again i gotsta get paid and that is apparently the easyist of routes...or so it seems

I think most positions you end up in thats not considered a level 1 or level 2 support position starts to pay fairly well. DBA's make pretty good money, as do Programmers. Get exposure to both, and go with the one you like the most.

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 12:05 PM
Wilee---you know my story better than most then. Im a saute chef thats only expectedd to clock in when the new cooks are overwhelmed. i spend ten hours a night working and clocked in for about 6 or 7.
I have written a python script(or should i say copy and pasted ) for the University of Florida and made $650 for what was about 12 hours of work. but these kinda jobs are far and few between...
and to be honest I'm afraid of school...i hate to be evaluated in standardized terms...it makes me feel cheap, i guess.

cheekybrew
December 1st, 2009, 12:32 PM
I don't...

For the most part, I'm self taught. At this point, I've had companies send me to various training classes, but I didn't have a degree or certs when I started in IT (A+ and Network+ weren't around yet). I won't lie and tell you I didn't lose some job opportunities because of it. I was not a good student. I applied for a 2 week contract IT job when I was 17, and worked there for 5 years. I learned a ton of stuff across a lot of different IT disciplines, and was able to take that with me and apply it everywhere I've worked, and I've been doing that all the way up to today. I've been very, very fortunate. I was just really dedicated, pulled all the late nighters (still do), and worked my way to where I am, and I had people willing to take a chance on me, and it paid off for me, and for them. I'm not burnt out though because I absolutely love my job and what I do for a living. Its never work if you love it.

A degree certainly would have fast-tracked me in some ways, but in another respect, I've worn just about every hat there is to wear in IT at one point in time or another and I can't say I'd trade my experience and the reputation I've earned over the years with peers and employers for any piece of paper at this point in my life. I may still get my degree one day, I want to, but right now I have other priorities in life. :)

If you have a wife and kids, sometimes those late nighters can be hard on the family life. At the time, I didn't. Its all about perspective. Those people telling you not to waste their time are probably saying it from their own experiences. My experiences tell me to caution you about starting something IT related at this point in time for you, but I'd never warn you away from IT. If you like technology, its too much fun and too rewarding not to, but its also very demanding, and at times people think it can feel thankless depending on where you work because you rarely hear when things work great, but always hear when they don't work well. ;) You take the good with the bad. ;)



I've read this about 4 times at this point...it may not seem very insightful but it says a lot to me...your opinionated yet objective...

thank you

wilee-nilee
December 1st, 2009, 12:32 PM
Wilee---you know my story better than most then. Im a saute chef thats only expectedd to clock in when the new cooks are overwhelmed. i spend ten hours a night working and clocked in for about 6 or 7.
I have written a python script(or should i say copy and pasted ) for the University of Florida and made $650 for what was about 12 hours of work. but these kinda jobs are far and few between...
and to be honest I'm afraid of school...i hate to be evaluated in standardized terms...it makes me feel cheap, i guess.

I suspect if you have the abilities you suggest you will have no problems in whatever you pursue. I have found that returning to school as a older student was an advantage. Life experiences are considered by most or all of my professors as a positive quality. I also don't have any fear of others opinions of me I have spent many years studying several areas of interest one of which a professor called me a scholar in, which just made me chuckle, I am not a scholar I have had just to much time on my hands. I mention these things because it is what has made me a strong person and able to adapt to college with virtually no problems.

But this pursuit isn't for every one as others posts suggest and success can be gained in other ways. I think though as a personal opinion; follow what makes you happy enough that it is not just work but a valid pursuit in your life as a whole.

steveneddy
December 1st, 2009, 04:22 PM
Go to Community College and get a Associates degree in computer something and study programming while you are there.

If you are as good as you say you will do well.

Don't get married until you are out of school and have a good job. Pay cash for the ring. You'll thank me in the end it you do it this way.

Question:

How did you work in a kitchen and tour with bands at the same time? Most people that tour pick up side gigs when they are home.
Just wondering.

lykwydchykyn
December 1st, 2009, 04:47 PM
the problem is i dont think i wanna do development, maybe database admin or something like that , but then again i gotsta get paid and that is apparently the easyist of routes...or so it seems

In my experience support was the easiest route. After a few years I'm now doing servers, databases, and even a bit of software development. And I'm mainly self-taught, no degree.

You have to resign yourself to the fact that no matter what direction you want to go, you're going to get a lousy thankless job to start out with. The key is getting in there and getting some experience.

gnomeuser
December 1st, 2009, 05:01 PM
You will want to bolster your skillset, become a RHCE (Red Hat Certified Engineer). This is hard work, takes lots of dedication but once you have the piece of paper you have proof positive of a real useful set of skills that will help you in most IT jobs.

Then I would recommend learning something like C# and .NET, a quality language and framework with lots of push behind it and which is extendable from embedded devices over the server through the desktop and into the web. That will give you a range of base skills and knowledge regarding the major areas of work, as well as let you figure out exactly which area is most suited for your personal interests and skills. Aside that it will give you an understanding of the other fields and where you can interact, and what not to ask them to provide.

I would also take some classes in UML to get design and specification writing as part of your playbook. Not as such because you should always use this approach but learning how to break down problems into tiny solvable pieces is invaluable for a task regardless how small.

Now this doesn't just apply for programming, even a sysadmin will benefit from some degree of design and scripting skills.

RiceMonster
December 1st, 2009, 05:08 PM
Now this doesn't just apply for programming, even a sysadmin will benefit from some degree of design and scripting skills.

It's extremely important for a sysadmin. Design is crucial if you're putting in servers in a datacenter to run applications. You have to be able to properly plan and map out everything, such how all the servers and applications will be talking to each other, etc.