View Full Version : The Taboo of Subjectivity in the sciences?

December 1st, 2009, 01:10 AM
First off, in an attempt to try & allow this thread to live as long as possible, this is NOT a thread about religion, it is about an attitude that some people have with regard to the scientific method & the sciences both soft & hard, in general.

Due to my long term interests in the limitations of science, I have recently taken delivery of an as yet unread book called "The Taboo of Subjectivity" by B. Alan Wallace. Which has inspired the following question.

My question is:

What are your thoughts on the existence of the attitude which some have termed scientistic dogmatism?

To help define the attitude in question I've added some quotes from the back of the book:

In this very important book, Alan Wallace opens our eyes to the scientistic dogmatism that tends to intrude into scientific thought & practice, hampering its effectiveness & blocking its advance into the subtle areas that hold so much promise for new breakthroughs today. It is incisive, comprehensive, & persuasive. A major statement, it should be widely read & seriously considered.

__ Robert A. F. Thurman, Columbia University

Alan Wallace is pointing out a path for extending the scientific method to go beyond the traditional emphasis on the object-pole of experience. He argues convincingly that a future science dealing with experience in its fullness, subject & object & all, can be every bit as scientific & reliable as what we now consider science to be.

__ Piet Hut, Institute for Advanced Study

This book should appeal to many who are dissatisfied with the current status of consciousness & subjectivity in mainstream science, for it offers many fresh insights & trenchant, global criticisms in a field already deluged with 'critiques.'

--William Waldron, Middlebury College

December 1st, 2009, 01:11 AM
However. Any topic that causes some sort of issue WILL BE CLOSED.

"Any topic or discussion that causes problems or drama will be closed."

December 1st, 2009, 01:17 AM
Your question is simply a disguised version of "Creationism is valid"

Mods, please close.

December 1st, 2009, 01:37 AM
You guys really don't understand the question.

I am interested in people's thoughts on the topic of scientistic dogmatism. This question is not at all a veiled question. I am interested in people's thoughts on, or whether they have actually thought about the fact that the sciences as they stand (with few exceptions - quantum) are very much limited to the objective stance. This IS the foundation of the current scientific method.

Please leave religion out of it?

I'm attempting to provide a field of discussion for looking at the way science has been working for a long time. Asking the question do you think it is about time we enhanced the scientific method, for the benefit of all?

Apparently Wallace, who teaches both physics & philosophy at the University of California, has written a book that investigates the problems with science & draws up a roadmap for a future science.

His book is apparently very highly regarded in the intellectual circles.

December 1st, 2009, 01:42 AM
Your question is simply a disguised version of "Creationism is valid"

Mods, please close.

While I would (and do openly) use a similar argument to defend creationism, I don't think the OP is a creationist. Nihilism/Solipsism/Postmodernism and a growing distrust of both science and religion is becoming a big part of today's Western culture.

However, I agree that the thread should be locked. Postmodernists tend to see themselves as irreligious, but tend to be seen as religious in a somewhat New-agey/Eastern Mysticism sort of way by both Western religion and scientific empiricism. And the thread most certainly will go towards religion in the Western sense whether the OP intends it or not.

December 1st, 2009, 01:46 AM

Ok, I understand.

It's the right question in the wrong forum.

It has gone over your heads.

I will ask the mods to close the thread myself, as I now see from the first three answers, that I have my question answered.

Which is quite sad really...

December 1st, 2009, 01:46 AM
This thread could also be easily derailed by the current Climate Change debate. Hacked emails, anyone.

December 1st, 2009, 01:48 AM
I have posted in a thread that is now closed!

December 1st, 2009, 01:48 AM
Doing well with questions, usually requires understanding them, so that an appropriate answer, (if the person does actually have one) can be given.

December 1st, 2009, 01:50 AM
Closed by request by the op.