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locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 04:03 PM
Installed Breezy a couple weeks ago. This was my first ever attempt at anything Linux. Everything went very well other than the Wifi card. NDISWrapper solved that with a little effort. Other than not-so-great hardware support and near -nothing- in the way of gaming, I must say I'm some what impressed. As a replacement for a "work" PC, Ubuntu is about perfect. I can see almost no reason not to use it in the work place. Ok, so a Windows guy admits that Linux is getting pretty good, so here's my big question: How long is everything in the Linux world going to be free? "Free" is the all encompassing "42" answer for everyone who preaches Linux and I just can't accept it as a long term feature. Really guys, you expect all these coders and hardware guys to keep investing thousands and -thousands- of hours of their free time and never expect to make single cent? Never? Seriously fellas, other than advice (not legal), -nothing- is free. All this stuff is gratis for now, to get you hooked, but we all have bills to pay.

mostwanted
February 21st, 2006, 04:18 PM
Oh, just because Ubuntu is free doesn't mean the programmers don't earn any money. They get from donations, big companies like Red Hat and Novell and rich cosmonaut dudes like Mark Shuttleworth.

The software is free forever in the sense that the code is freely available. Even if the Ubuntu team decided "**** it, we're gonna charge money from our users now", the source would be available and a fork would spring to life instantly.


Other than not-so-great hardware support and near -nothing- in the way of gaming, I must say I'm some what impressed.

Not-so-great hardware support? Linux supports far more hardware out of the box than Windows will ever do, your quarrel here is with your wifi chip producer only producing proprietary drivers for Windows.

Virogenesis
February 21st, 2006, 04:24 PM
Well they are all hackers they actuallu enjoy what they do they aren't in it just for the money.

I'm not exactly sure how opensource makes money other than support.
Companies such as redhat, novell charge for added support in their products they also run courses so you can become a system admin this again brings in money for opensource.

Then you have distros like fedora core which is the community side of redhat very popular and considered bleeding edge pretty much.
ubuntu is another community distro not sure how ubuntu will make money I guess its given Canonica more trade as everyone knows of the company now.

Debian will always be free as Debian is a religion and many Debianists exist.
Linux distros can't become a monopoly as many distros exist and with that you'll find competion so you'll find each other trying to undercut each other.

I agree with mostwanted that linux has great drivers maybe for Peripherals it sucks but then again my usb mouse and keyboard just worked.

Bragador
February 21st, 2006, 04:25 PM
As for the games you should check it out more carefully. There are a couple of major blockbusters available for linux (especially from ID Software) and you can always use Wine or Cedage to port windows games to Linux.

What is fun on linux is the free "arcade" games though. Stuff like "Battle for Wesnoth", or nintendo emulators to play old nes and super nes games and stuff like that.

It's not as easy to use blockbuster windows games but if you want to it's possible but do not overlook the free games, often they bring the most fun.

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 04:26 PM
How long is everything in the Linux world going to be free?

Until Ragnarok, at least. It's highly unlikely that the kernel, or GNOME, or the GNU tool suite will be relicensed.

GeneralZod
February 21st, 2006, 04:32 PM
As mostwanted said, just because stuff is given away doesn't mean the progammers won't be paid. More importantly, the source code for the Linux kernel, X, GNOME, KDE - basically all the ingredients of a modern linux distros - are all licensed under OSS licenses (most commonly, the GPL). Since all of these projects have had many, many contributors, changing the license to something else would be very hard indeed. All works derived from these works - i.e., all future improvements to GNOME, KDE, X etc - automatically have the same license, so it's hard to steer the future license of these projects towards a more closed one. Any source that is under an OSS license can be freely given away. So basically, "locking away" current or future versions of this software would be very hard indeed. You are also grossly misjudging the mindset of the developers - they work, for the most part, on OSS projects precisely because they are open source and have no interest in the main in making things proprietary.

Also, about people wanting to be paid in the first place - it is indeed highly likely that some contributors who are currently working for free in their spare time will eventually get overwhelmed with work and have to quit, but then there have always been legions of talented younger members (students, typically, with more free time) who will take up the slack. I can think of absolutely no reason why the trend of the last few decades should suddenly change and see the pool of talented young idealists dry up.

Bragador
February 21st, 2006, 04:36 PM
Plus, I like the way some people can place "bounties" on wanted features until it is high enough that a coder will want to work on it. And this is for all open software projects.

The law of supply and demand applied to software programming at its best imho

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 04:39 PM
your quarrel here is with your wifi chip producer only producing proprietary drivers for Windows.

I have no "quarrel". If you re-read my post you'll see it is nearly all praise. I'm liking what I see so far.

My question as a professional programmer is this: Why would I code a Linux app for any reason other than "gee this could be fun and I do have six months to blow...". Follow? I write a decent Windows app and I at least have a shot at some shareware registration fees.

Is there such a thing as a programmer paying his mortgage writing Linux apps? How'bout part of his mortgage?

:-)

Brunellus
February 21st, 2006, 04:44 PM
Installed Breezy a couple weeks ago. This was my first ever attempt at anything Linux. Everything went very well other than the Wifi card. NDISWrapper solved that with a little effort. Other than not-so-great hardware support and near -nothing- in the way of gaming, I must say I'm some what impressed. As a replacement for a "work" PC, Ubuntu is about perfect. I can see almost no reason not to use it in the work place. Ok, so a Windows guy admits that Linux is getting pretty good, so here's my big question: How long is everything in the Linux world going to be free? "Free" is the all encompassing "42" answer for everyone who preaches Linux and I just can't accept it as a long term feature. Really guys, you expect all these coders and hardware guys to keep investing thousands and -thousands- of hours of their free time and never expect to make single cent? Never? Seriously fellas, other than advice (not legal), -nothing- is free. All this stuff is gratis for now, to get you hooked, but we all have bills to pay.
Free does not equal no cost, by the way. Free here means "as in freedom," which means the right to run the program, to study it, to improve it, and to redistribute it, provided you preserve the same rights to the next user. Nothing prevents you from "buying" free software--quite a sizeable industry has grown up around this. (RedHat, for instance).


P.S.: Usually, when you're talking about rights or laws in Latin, you would use "perpetuum" rather than "infinitum"-- the former is specific to *time*, while the other means literally "without boundaries". Ergo nucleus Linuxis Gratis in perpetuum, et in saecula saeculorum--tantum hoc speramus. Iam optime scimus omnia profundiora esse, cum Latine dicantur. Tibi oportet lingua Latina melius scribere.

Bragador
February 21st, 2006, 04:44 PM
How about being a linux bounty hunter ?

That would pay.

Virogenesis
February 21st, 2006, 04:46 PM
locoHost, because believe it or not they are interested in getting things to work like many have stated people in open source get sponsored by bigger companies.

If a programmer doesn't have what he wants he'll mode an app to fit his needs and he'll release it code is often recycled with the opensource community this is the fantasic thing so yes people do work on projects for free if you could write an app wouldn't you like to give something back to all those that help the community.

mostwanted
February 21st, 2006, 04:46 PM
I have no "quarrel". If you re-read my post you'll see it is nearly all praise. I'm liking what I see so far.

Well, I was just making a point. Linux does have good hardware support :)


My question as a professional programmer is this: Why would I code a Linux app for any reason other than "gee this could be fun and I do have six months to blow...". Follow? I write a decent Windows app and I at least have a shot at some shareware registration fees.

Well, I'd imagine most Linux apps are developed because programmers find it a lot of fun. You could take donations instead of shareware fees, it's practically the same thing :)


Is there such a thing as a programmer paying his mortgage writing Linux apps? How'bout part of his mortgage?

:-)

Perhaps.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 04:50 PM
P.S.: Usually, when you're talking about rights or laws in Latin, you would use "perpetuum" rather than "infinitum"-- the former is specific to *time*, while the other means literally "without boundaries". Ergo nucleus Linuxis Gratis in perpetuum, et in saecula saeculorum--tantum hoc speramus. Iam optime scimus omnia profundiora esse, cum Latine dicantur. Tibi oportet lingua Latina melius scribere.

Hey you finally got some use of those Latin classes huh! JK ;-) Thanks for the correction.

I suppose if the government suddenly (or eventually) switched to all Linux, there'd be plenty of paid programming work. Other than that, I guess their will never be Linux shareware that anyone would pay $20 to use.

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 04:50 PM
My question as a professional programmer is this: Why would I code a Linux app for any reason other than "gee this could be fun and I do have six months to blow...". Follow? I write a decent Windows app and I at least have a shot at some shareware registration fees.

My answer as a professional programmer who uses Linux at home because he likes it better than Windows is this: I'd code up a Linux app if I looked around for apps to accomplish a task and couldn't find one that didn't suck like Britney Spears trying to get a record contract. I'd do it to scratch an itch. Then, if I'm in a generous mood because I just got laid after impressing my wife with my "man on a mission" schtick, I'll release it under the GPL on the chance that it might scratch somebody else's itch.

I code for myself. If you can use it too, more power to you.

Virogenesis
February 21st, 2006, 04:51 PM
Well, I'd imagine most Linux apps are developed because programmers find it a lot of fun.
So true alot do I know my mate enjoys making programs like I enjoy making web sites.



You could take donations instead of shareware fees, it's practically the same thing :)
So true Macslow has a link on his site for paypal donations not sure who donates I would if I could but I can't write now.

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 04:52 PM
Other than that, I guess their will never be Linux shareware that anyone would pay $20 to use.

Why pay twenty bucks for shareware when you can get an app for free (without having to bootleg it) or just whip something up yourself? I used to use Windows at home, and paid for my apps, until Windows 98SE died screaming right after I installed it. No more Windows, no more shareware. If I can't get it for free, I'll code it myself.

grimdaze
February 21st, 2006, 04:55 PM
Other than that, I guess their will never be Linux shareware that anyone would pay $20 to use.
sell a cd version

GeneralZod
February 21st, 2006, 05:02 PM
My question as a professional programmer is this: Why would I code a Linux app for any reason other than "gee this could be fun and I do have six months to blow...". Follow? I write a decent Windows app and I at least have a shot at some shareware registration fees.


Ego, love of programming, sheer altruism, take your pick - you make it sound like there are no compelling reasons why someone would do this, when the thousands of people churning out code for people to Freely use speaks otherwise :)



Is there such a thing as a programmer paying his mortgage writing Linux apps? How'bout part of his mortgage?

:-)

As has been mentioned, many developers are indeed paid a proper wage to work full-time.


I'm also a professional programmer (in the sense that I get paid to do it, not in the sense that I'm necessarily any good ;)) and am also just laying the groundwork for most first full-time OSS app. Here are my reasons:

1) It's intended to replace an existing app (not naming names!) that I think sucks. So, I'm writing it for selfish reasons.

2) Many other people also think this existing app sucks, and has little chance of not sucking anytime soon :) So I'm writing it for altruistic reasons, and also for the praise and adulation of the suffering masses :)

3) Nobody would pay for my replacement as the existing app works OK (but sucks :)) Plus, I don't want to get into the whole "locking things down until the user has proven they've paid" as it is a lot of work and, quite frankly, I find the whole idea to be "grubby" and want no involvement in it. So I'll release it as OSS. Actually, I like the ideals of OSS so much that I'd probably release it under the GPL even if my app turned out to be worth $30 a pop.

4) Programming something you want to is awesomely good fun :D

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:08 PM
sell a cd version

With a professionally printed owner's manual. I used to buy SuSE Linux just to get the 400 page reference manual they included with the Professional edition.

Brunellus
February 21st, 2006, 05:12 PM
Hey you finally got some use of those Latin classes huh! JK ;-) Thanks for the correction.

I suppose if the government suddenly (or eventually) switched to all Linux, there'd be plenty of paid programming work. Other than that, I guess their will never be Linux shareware that anyone would pay $20 to use.
there's a fair amount of work generally. The great thing about Linux development is that so many of the apps are so darn *portable*, and end up being used on other operating systems.

As far as government and industry taking on Linux or some other free operating system, I believe that it is both desirable and inevitable.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:20 PM
So I guess I got my answer. Some replies were a bit more hostile than others. Not sure why that was but anyway...

Linux: Hobbyist OS for programmers with lots of free time to fiddle.

Windows: Professional OS for programmers with large monthly mortgages.

Many of you seem to think there are "some guys?" way up on the Linux food chain who are making money but none of us lowly programmers. Not yet at least ;-)

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM
Many of you seem to think there are "some guys?" way up on the Linux food chain who are making money but none of us lowly programmers. Not yet at least ;-)

Put to you this way: Linus gets paid to hack on the kernel because he's a demigod. I don't get paid because I'm just a cuddly little blue-eyed programmer cat, a few steps up from a generic code monkey.

Bragador
February 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM
You are oversimplifying.

The linux business model is generally to offer the product for free and charge for tech support.

So for the normal user everything is free but for the businesses they have to pay because if something goes wrong, they want a swat team of tech support guys fixing the problem. The don't want to wait in forums for hints and tips.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM
I'm not dumping my Ubunto box just because I don't see income potential. I'll keep fiddling and learning. In fact I have another machine sitting in my office right now doing absolutely nothing. I think I'll try another distro on that one. Just to mix it up a bit ;-)

Is Red Hat the "commercial" Linux? Meaning the one used most in business?

Thanks guys :-)

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:26 PM
Linux: Hobbyist OS for programmers with lots of free time to fiddle.

Nonsense. I don't have a metric arseload of free time for tinkering. If I did, I'd still be using Gentoo. :)

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:28 PM
Is Red Hat the "commercial" Linux? Meaning the one used most in business?

As far as I know, yes. I know for sure that if you want to use Oracle on Linux, they expect you to use Red Hat if you want support.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:28 PM
You are oversimplifying.

The linux business model is generally to offer the product for free and charge for tech support.

So for the normal user everything is free but for the businesses they have to pay because if something goes wrong, they want a swat team of tech support guys fixing the problem. The don't want to wait in forums for hints and tips.

So you're saying there are paying Linux SysAdmin jobs out there to be had. Ok, I'll buy that.

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:33 PM
So you're saying there are paying Linux SysAdmin jobs out there to be had. Ok, I'll buy that.

Yep. Some shops are hiring Linux admins. but it's more likely that some shop will get a Linux box for some reason, and one of the existing IT personnel will admin the machine as part of his other duties.

Brunellus
February 21st, 2006, 05:33 PM
So I guess I got my answer. Some replies were a bit more hostile than others. Not sure why that was but anyway...

Linux: Hobbyist OS for programmers with lots of free time to fiddle.

Windows: Professional OS for programmers with large monthly mortgages.

Many of you seem to think there are "some guys?" way up on the Linux food chain who are making money but none of us lowly programmers. Not yet at least ;-)
I object to your "hobbyist/professional" typology.

Quite a lot of the work in Linux is being done by people being paid, full-time, by firms such as Novell and IBM. Improvements in the kernel and in the OS in general help these companies.

This is really no different from Microsoft, which pays thousands of programmers to work on their software full time. The difference is that the larger community can work on Free and Open Source software, as well. This includes everyone from hobbyists all the way up to small and medium-sized firms. The latter tend to specialize: take Codeweavers, for instance, who contribute a lot into the WINE project, but also sell software, support, and services for their Crossover Office product.

Personally, I hate the whole "Pro/not-pro" dichotomy. My other hobby is photography, and nothing is more tiresome than some amateur photographer vainly believing that getting "pro" equipment (whatever that means) will somehow make him better. Having worked (briefly) in that business, I can tell you that "pro" means "it gets the job done."

If that's a holga box camera, or a Crown Graphic, or a Nikon digital, it doesn't matter: the only thing that makes equipment "professional" is that someone is making an honest living with it, and using it effectively.

Likewise with software. I would hate to think that the thousands of Linux servers that presently make your internet possible are somehow inferior, juryrigged, ramshackle, "hobbyist" projects...and that the millions of infected Windows computers on zombie botnets everywhere are somehow the superior "professional" solution.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:34 PM
As far as I know, yes. I know for sure that if you want to use Oracle on Linux, they expect you to use Red Hat if you want support.

You read my mind. I definitely need to put some study time into Oracle. So perhaps if I want my tinkering to translate into something on my resume, I should go Red Hat and Oracle? What is the Linux programmers language and IDE of choice? For me it's C# and VS.Net. What's the VS.Net equivalent for Linux coders? Mono? Something else?

Thanks guys :-)

Virogenesis
February 21st, 2006, 05:40 PM
Python is used for small projects I've noticed.
Beagle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beagle_(software)) is written in c# Gaim (http://gaim.sourceforge.net/) is written in C

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:42 PM
You read my mind. I definitely need to put some study time into Oracle. So perhaps if I want my tinkering to translate into something on my resume, I should go Red Hat and Oracle?

If you can afford to buy copies of Red Hat and Oracle, yes. If not, you might be able to make do with Fedora Core (which is backed by Red Hat), and one of the free databases: MySQL, PostgreSQL, or Firebird (which is based on Borland's InterBase RDBMS). As long as you stick to ANSI SQL, it shouldn't matter which DB you use.


What is the Linux programmers language and IDE of choice? For me it's C# and VS.Net. What's the VS.Net equivalent for Linux coders? Mono? Something else?

It depends. If memory serves, the kernel hackers use C. I think X11 also uses C. Most of GNOME is done in C, but GNOME's libraries also have binding for languages like Python, Perl, and Ruby. KDE people use C++.

I'm sure there are a couple of DoD refugees using Ada95 somewhere, too. :)

If you want something similar to VS.NET, use Mono and MonoDevelop as your IDE. There are other C/C++ IDEs (Anjuta for GNOME and KDevelop for KDE), or you can do your coding with an editor and invoke the GNU tools from a shell.

For web work, there's Bluefish (for GNOME) and Quanta (for KDE), but you could also do everything with a plain editor too, like I do. (http://www.starbreaker.net)

bonzodog
February 21st, 2006, 05:47 PM
I'm not a programmer, but something has struck me; do you enjoy writing apps and do it for the love of the job, or is it just something to pay the bills? A lot of linux programmers actually do it out of love and thus take great pride in laying the base for an app that they can publish the initial code for on the web, and get help/patches and guidance from other programmers.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:49 PM
I object to your "hobbyist/professional" typology.

Personally, I hate the whole "Pro/not-pro" dichotomy. My other hobby is photography, and nothing is more tiresome than some amateur photographer vainly believing that getting "pro" equipment (whatever that means) will somehow make him better. Having worked (briefly) in that business, I can tell you that "pro" means "it gets the job done."


If you get paid to take photographs, you're a "professional" photographer. Whether you "get the job done" is irrelevant to the definition. It's being paid. If you take pictures for free because it's fun, you're a "hobbyist" photographer. I'm not stomping your nuts for being a hobbyist. Of course not. I have a few hobbies myself. I just wanted to query the experts here to determine if it would -pay off- investing a lot of free time (wife + daughter = very little free time) in studying Linux programming. The concesus seems to be "no it probably won't pay off" but keep at it because it's fun. Ok then, I will.

:-)

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 05:55 PM
I'm not a programmer, but something has struck me; do you enjoy writing apps and do it for the love of the job, or is it just something to pay the bills?

Yes.

I've been a programmer since I was 17 years old. I'm 40 now so you could guess I really do love it. I also have a $3800 and a $600 mortgage to pay every month so I really need to earn some cash somewhere in there along with all the free love ;-)

@Stormy, Isn't there a new free developer version of Oracle?

Stormy Eyes
February 21st, 2006, 05:59 PM
@Stormy, Isn't there a new free developer version of Oracle?

Check their website. I don't do much DB stuff at home; I deal with enough of that on the job (which is why I won't use Windows at home, BTW), so I never looked for a free Linux version of Oracle.

Besides, MySQL is better suited to run on my spare Linux box rhiannon.

maruchan
February 21st, 2006, 06:33 PM
I just wanted to query the experts here to determine if it would -pay off- investing a lot of free time (wife + daughter = very little free time) in studying Linux programming.

As someone who does no programming at all, and is just an end-user, I would *highly* recommend you look into making your software cross-platform if you really think it will be worth money. I paid for a lot of shareware/commercial software as a Windows user, but now that there's a big chance I'll be using Linux or OS X instead at any given moment, there's no way I'm renewing my licenses for Windows-only software. It's just too risky. I may move to OS X completely, I may be in a position where I can't use Windows for a given task, etc. Every day it seems more and more stupid to invest in software that's not cross-platform.

I've emailed Windows software developers about this, and the point seems to be getting across. Looks like even Google is getting the point these days with Picasa (which they don't charge for, but I guess they have bigger plans in mind...).

Brunellus
February 21st, 2006, 06:35 PM
If you get paid to take photographs, you're a "professional" photographer. Whether you "get the job done" is irrelevant to the definition. It's being paid. If you take pictures for free because it's fun, you're a "hobbyist" photographer. I'm not stomping your nuts for being a hobbyist. Of course not. I have a few hobbies myself. I just wanted to query the experts here to determine if it would -pay off- investing a lot of free time (wife + daughter = very little free time) in studying Linux programming. The concesus seems to be "no it probably won't pay off" but keep at it because it's fun. Ok then, I will.

:-)
I don't know what job you're working where you don't get it done, and still get paid.

locoHost
February 21st, 2006, 07:55 PM
I don't know what job you're working where you don't get it done, and still get paid.

I work on a team of programmers. For the federal government. Our contract is up four years from now. I get paid every two weeks. The application may or may not be "done" per requirements docs when I leave here in 2010.

So yes, I get paid for my programming work independent of some definition of "done".

:-)

Brunellus
February 21st, 2006, 08:16 PM
I work on a team of programmers. For the federal government. Our contract is up four years from now. I get paid every two weeks. The application may or may not be "done" per requirements docs when I leave here in 2010.

So yes, I get paid for my programming work independent of some definition of "done".

:-)
ah, the federal establishment. Gotcha.

Question on licensing: I know that all IP generated directly by civil servants is public domain (the Congressional Record, for instance, or all the myriad reports the agencies make)...and that goes for software, too. What sort of intellectual property rights do you or your firm have over software written under the terms of a federal contract?

UbuWu
February 21st, 2006, 11:22 PM
Really guys, you expect all these coders and hardware guys to keep investing thousands and -thousands- of hours of their free time and never expect to make single cent? Never? Seriously fellas, other than advice (not legal), -nothing- is free. All this stuff is gratis for now, to get you hooked, but we all have bills to pay.

A lot of them ARE getting paid (by redhat, novell, canonical, etc.) And Mark Shuttleworth has already earned enough money to pay his bills elsewhere.

If you worry about Ubuntu:


Ubuntu will always be free of charge

From the www.ubuntu.com main page.

xequence
February 21st, 2006, 11:25 PM
Linux supports far more hardware out of the box than Windows will ever do

Uh... Not exactly. Maybe for you, but XP, even being 5 years old, detected my hardware perfectly.

Am I saying XP has better hardware detection? Nope, just saying it is hard to say which is better, its all which worked for you.

Bragador
February 21st, 2006, 11:26 PM
They never said it would be free for businesses or that tech support for businesses would be free.

The goal is that the project will sustain itself eventually.

UbuWu
February 21st, 2006, 11:29 PM
All works derived from these works - i.e., all future improvements to GNOME, KDE, X etc - automatically have the same license, so it's hard to steer the future license of these projects towards a more closed one.

That is not entirily true. When the company owns the copyright to the code they can easily release future versions under a different, possibly closed source, license. Of course a fork would still be possible.

E.g. from the openoffice website:


In order to contribute code to the project, you must submit the Joint Copyright Assignment form. This form jointly assigns copyright over your work to yourself and to Sun Microsystems.

UbuWu
February 21st, 2006, 11:30 PM
They never said it would be free for businesses.

From the main page again:


there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", we make our very best work available to everyone on the same Free terms.

ardchoille
February 21st, 2006, 11:42 PM
I have no "quarrel". If you re-read my post you'll see it is nearly all praise. I'm liking what I see so far.

My question as a professional programmer is this: Why would I code a Linux app for any reason other than "gee this could be fun and I do have six months to blow...". Follow? I write a decent Windows app and I at least have a shot at some shareware registration fees.

Is there such a thing as a programmer paying his mortgage writing Linux apps? How'bout part of his mortgage?

:-)
I design graphics/logos/banners/icons/themes/skins and I never think of being paid for my work. I do it because I love Linux and want to see it grow.

Money isn't eveything ;)

ardchoille
February 21st, 2006, 11:45 PM
No more Windows, no more shareware. If I can't get it for free, I'll code it myself.
That's the spirit!

Stormy Eyes
February 22nd, 2006, 01:16 AM
Money isn't eveything ;)

No, money is just the means to an end. A sensible person uses money to serve his own happiness. Others let their money use them.

Bragador
February 22nd, 2006, 02:05 AM
from http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/free_issues/newsletters/shuttleworth_interview/

on page two

There’s a very long way to go before I’m satisfied that Ubuntu is all grown up and can run its own race—until that happens I will likely stay with the project, trying my best to help it become sustainable.

How will this be possible without any business model ? I'm sure it wont stay free for the businesses.

mstlyevil
February 22nd, 2006, 02:05 AM
Uh... Not exactly. Maybe for you, but XP, even being 5 years old, detected my hardware perfectly.

Am I saying XP has better hardware detection? Nope, just saying it is hard to say which is better, its all which worked for you.

You need to try adding a stand alone graphics card, PCI soundcard and a PCI SATA controller or Promise card. Trust me when I say that XP will not display even 2d graphics properly without the drivers and will absolutely not setup and configure the other 2 without third party drivers. Linux will set up all three to work right out of the box. Also try hooking up a HP printer to XP and use it without the drivers. You can't because XP is unable to set it up without them. Linux will connect to a HP printer and work right out of the box. In fact the only driver I had to install was the latest NVIDIA drivers to get the 3D effects on the card to work their best but I still had some 3D support upon install with the basic drivers included with the distro. XP offers no 3D support without the drivers whatsoever.

In conclusion it has been my experience that Linux is better at hardware detection than XP.

briancurtin
February 22nd, 2006, 07:09 AM
So I guess I got my answer. Some replies were a bit more hostile than others. Not sure why that was but anyway...

Linux: Hobbyist OS for programmers with lots of free time to fiddle.

Windows: Professional OS for programmers with large monthly mortgages.

Many of you seem to think there are "some guys?" way up on the Linux food chain who are making money but none of us lowly programmers. Not yet at least ;-)
i wouldnt say linux is a hobbyist OS at all. i worked at one of the worlds largest investment banks, and linux was huge there in the server area (not so much on the desktop, at least in the US). i was an intern there last summer and dealt with 5 linux servers in testing and development myself, which were just in my group which is inside of another group. nothing we did was by any means a hobby. when i worked at that same bank 4 years ago while i was still in high school, i was logging into a red hat box and an openstep box to do my work, and here and there id use windows.

as for this stuff being free: its been free for how long now? i dont see why that would change.