Helping family & friends - Dont do it

[ade234uk]

Don't do it, because in the end you don't get any peace and quiet. You end up working for nothing. Then they start calling you in the day when your at work with the most stupid pathetic problems you can think of. The latest is

"You fixed the machine, but the card size seems kind of different in Solitaire. What have you done to the machine"

](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)

[Pasdar]

It's the main reason I don't put Ubuntu on my father's computer. That and, that I will be the only one that can answer his questions. Which is also true now with winxp, BUT he plans on going somewhere and I know no one could answer his questions other than me.

[ZankerH]

I'd recommend anyone with similar problems to read the log of the excellent chat on this topic we had during the last ubuntu open week.

Basically, when you help people with their computer (be it by installing Ubuntu GNU/Linux, or supporting any other operating system/application) unofficially, don't be there for them every time something breaks. Do it on your own terms. Establish how and when they may contact you. Instead of solving every individual problem and allowing them to remain ignorant, show them man pages, documentation and wikis.

Make people learn about their own system. If they want your support, they have to lose their ignorance first.

With this method, I have managed to turn at least six of my close friends from people entirely ignorant of IT into geeks and Free Software enthusiasts.

It helps if you know how to be manipulative when you have to. Read up on the basics of NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) if you're socially inept and incapable of communicating with people in a normal way, it helped me a lot in getting my point across and not getting ignored.

[Johnsie]

Don't your care about your family's computing needs? ;-)

Yes it's a pain working with peoples silly problems, but if you ever work in programming or any other tech related job those jobs will be quite easy to deal with and can give you some practical experience. I use them as guinea pigs sometimes. I don't think Ubuntu applications are at a high enough standard where I would install it for people who liked Windows though.

I'm the only programmer at the company I work for and working with friends and family is invaluable because it helps me get in understanding of how the average joe in work might respond to certain situations. It also forces me to spend time working with things I would otherwise not be working with. Being a programmer I spend very little time simple things like Word and Excel and dealing with peoples little problems can help me build my skills up in that sort of application.

[Exodist]

Don't do it, because in the end you don't get any peace and quiet. You end up working for nothing. Then they start calling you in the day when your at work with the most stupid pathetic problems you can think of. The latest is

"You fixed the machine, but the card size seems kind of different in Solitaire. What have you done to the machine"

](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


True this..

When I got back form military service, I was bombarded with people asking me for PC help. I bluntly told them I charge $50 to come to your house for the first hour and another 50 bucks per hour after. None pro rated. So if I come and you have no disc and I leave 5 mins later. Its still 50 bucks. If I stay 1 hour and 2 mins, its 100bucks. I also dont answer questions over the phone. Period. Freinds, family, anyone.. I dont care. Unless its a hot PoA down the street.. :-)

Amazing how many so called issues went away.

[Exodist]

Don't your care about your family's computing needs? ;-)

Yes it's a pain working with peoples silly problems, but if you ever work in programming or any other tech related job those jobs will be quite easy to deal with and can give you some practical experience. I use them as guinea pigs sometimes. I don't think Ubuntu applications are at a high enough standard where I would install it for people who liked Windows though.

I'm the only programmer at the company I work for and working with friends and family is invaluable because it helps me get in understanding of how the average joe in work might respond to certain situations.
Been there done that. I even worked a head of tech support for a large ISP here in MS..

You will one day get burned out.. it happens to everyone.

[ZankerH]

Don't your care about your family's computing needs? ;-)

I don't care about anyone who asks me to support his ignorance of computing technology under the pretence of needing my help.

In today's world, knowing about how your computer works is about equally important to being able to talk. If someone with no mental or physical barriers to talking asked you to follow him around all day and talk for him while he passed you hastily scrawled notes on the general idea of what he wants you to say, would you defend it as "caring about his needs"?

[koleoptero]

I just make them feel like complete idiots for not understanding various things and in the end they leave me alone.

[Johnsie]

If people weren't ignorant about computing I think alot of people in the computing industry would be out of a job. I'd like them to stay ignorant :-)

The reason I don't burn out is that I am good at managing my time and I also organise things using a mobile scheduling system that I have developed. I assign my days and evenings to suit what I want to achieve and make sure and have enough social and rest time to help me recuperate. If I think things are getting a bit much then I just throw an extra bit of relaxation time in.

The big thing is that when I help someone, I always try and get as much out of it as I put in.

[ZankerH]

If people weren't ignorant about computing I think alot of people in the computing industry would be out of a job. I'd like them to stay ignorant :-)

Correct. The only reason why the profiteering, restrictive proprietary software industry still exists (besides the tolerance of its criminal business practices by every country it operates in) is that people are ignorant of how their computers work. If more people learned even about the very basics of software infrastructure and the Free Software philosophy, there wouldn't be a need for proprietary software or the mafia-like corporate behemoth behind it.

[doas777]

it's a good way to gain experience when you are first starting off. the other pleasant side effect is that whenever they are getting rid of an old box, you are the first person they think of.

[ZankerH]

the other pleasant side effect is that whenever they are getting rid of an old box, you are the first person they think of.

Meh. There's more free old boxes on craiglist than I could fit into my basement. I used to drive around my town and pick them up all the time, but I got bored of it eventually, and couldn't possibly justify the need for more. I've considered hooking them up in a cluster, but just gave them away instead. It's not worth the time, and neither is salvaging the old hardware my family throws at me.

[RiceMonster]

Luckily my family members don't ask me for help. My Dad's asked me for some tips when he was playing around with various Linux distros, but they weren't the dreaded "fix my computer" kind of things. My mom asks my Dad, because he's good with Windows, and my sister is competent enough to find solutions to her problems herself.

However, if I put a Linux distro on my Mom's computer, I'd never hear the end of it.

[fromthehill]

every time someone calls me their computer does not work It always ends up with something like "e-mail doesn't sync or wallpaper changed to some random annoying tiled 100x100 picture"

[Nerd King]

I got so burned out with it that I no longer give tech support. If people want to have a computer, let them learn the real cost of ownership (ie paying someone to remove their viruses).

[Giant Speck]

I live 3,618 miles from any friends or family. Luckily, this means I don't ever have to work about this kind of stuff. :)

[Nerd King]

I live 3,618 miles from any friends or family. Luckily, this means I don't ever have to work about this kind of stuff. :)
Trust me, I'm about 3000 miles from one of the people who kept bugging me. A 12 hour phone session killed my will to do anything tech support related ever again. These people don't seem to realise that I'd like some time to do my own stuff too.

[NoaHall]

I have to help my entire family out, this includes setting up/managing a room with about 20+ computers for my grandparents. I also have to help my girlfriends family, if that counts. Hell, every time I go there, it's like they've built a list of things for me to do.

[Nerd King]

I have to help my entire family out, this includes setting up/managing a room with about 20+ computers for my grandparents. I also have to help my girlfriends family, if that counts. Hell, every time I go there, it's like they've built a list of things for me to do.
20+ computers? Sounds like either business or they should know what they're doing in either case they should be paying someone to maintain 20+ computers.

[3rdalbum]

Don't build a computer for a friend of a friend.

I got called out because "one of the DVD players you put on here has no sound" (I thought I was only installing PowerProducer, it put some useless silent trial version of PowerDVD on there too. VLC and WMP worked fine) and "one of the icons on the desktop has disappeared".

It's hard to make a clean break, but you have to. "Running Windows? I can't help you, sorry."

I've even been called on a Saturday by somebody who knows I work in retail, wanting me to give them non-urgent help over the phone. It took me about an hour to cool down, I was so annoyed.

[sanderella]

I'd recommend anyone with similar problems to read the log of the excellent chat on this topic we had during the last ubuntu open week.

Basically, when you help people with their computer (be it by installing Ubuntu GNU/Linux, or supporting any other operating system/application) unofficially, don't be there for them every time something breaks. Do it on your own terms. Establish how and when they may contact you. Instead of solving every individual problem and allowing them to remain ignorant, show them man pages, documentation and wikis.

Make people learn about their own system. If they want your support, they have to lose their ignorance first.

With this method, I have managed to turn at least six of my close friends from people entirely ignorant of IT into geeks and Free Software enthusiasts.

It helps if you know how to be manipulative when you have to. Read up on the basics of NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) if you're socially inept and incapable of communicating with people in a normal way, it helped me a lot in getting my point across and not getting ignored.

This is a good post, in the spirit of ubuntu. The best way we can help people is to make them help themselves.:KS

[73ckn797]

Won't help family? So cold, so cruel and exactly right!

I get those questions frequently. Not only with computers but with cars. Having been an auto mechanic so long, people think I am their personal answer machine. I tell them to bring it by, when my schedule permits. Usually they are in too big of a hurry to wait on me.

[Grifulkin]

Oh so here is a story, our family has road runner but our router is somewhat on the old side. 6 or 7 years old, now it is not in the best shape and I have told my parents countless times to go ask road runner for a new one, I also told them they could buy one of their own but they don't get the satisfaction that Time Warner will come fix it if anything goes wrong.

So anyways from time to time probably once a day the router will "trip" basically the only thing I can think of to describe it and the internet cuts out. The only way I have found to fix it is to go and reset the router. Everytime I go out of town to my girlfriends house, I get a call saying how do I fix the internet or I can't get the internet how do I fix it? This has happened at least 50 times and I tell her everytime to go and unplug the router wait 10 seconds and then plug it back in, and she still does not understand that, she would rather call me everytime for me to tell her to do the exact same thing every time. It's ridiculous.

[mmalone21]

Ditto I always help friends and family and they always give me their old "junk" it keeps me from having to buy as many components. It also has a nice side affect of have extra hardware on hand to give away or sell to other friends or family members when you are working on their machines.

[earthpigg]

i helped my neighbor install firefox an an antivirus, and showed him how to wire his sound system through his computer. trivial to me, would have possibly ended up with AntiVirus 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_2009) if he did it himself.

three weeks later, he helped me by diagnosing the cause of a new car noise, and eventually installing new break pads in my car. trivial for him, would have been impossible for me to do it safely myself.

both tasks where trivial to the other person, but both also beyond our ability to do on our own.

since then, my thinking is as such: if you (or your significant other) are a plumber or mechanic or something like that... i will very eagerly help you out.

[Ian dewhurst]

Don't do it, because in the end you don't get any peace and quiet. You end up working for nothing. Then they start calling you in the day when your at work with the most stupid pathetic problems you can think of. The latest is

"You fixed the machine, but the card size seems kind of different in Solitaire. What have you done to the machine"

](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)


I am so with you there!
I fixed my girlfriends sister's lappy which basically required a reinstall of vista. I managed to save everything from documents, paychecks to programs.
The other week she sniped to my girlfriend it just doesn't work "right" considering it took me 3 days and it cost her a pack of cigarettes I felt a little hurt and refused to fix whatever problem she considered it to be.

[Exodist]

i helped my neighbor install firefox an an antivirus, and showed him how to wire his sound system through his computer. trivial to me, would have possibly ended up with AntiVirus 2009 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antivirus_2009) if he did it himself.

three weeks later, he helped me by diagnosing the cause of a new car noise, and eventually installing new break pads in my car. trivial for him, would have been impossible for me to do it safely myself.

both tasks where trivial to the other person, but both also beyond our ability to do on our own.

since then, my thinking is as such: if you (or your significant other) are a plumber or mechanic or something like that... i will very eagerly help you out.

I can easily see your point.
Lucky for me though the only thing on this planet I can not do or dont do is medical surgery. :-)

[underquark]

Explain your ignorance of these new systems since you weren't trained on them but that you'll "try". Then break it. Works with ironing, sewing, house-painting, child-minding...

[lisati]

This has happened at least 50 times and I tell her everytime to go and unplug the router wait 10 seconds and then plug it back in, and she still does not understand that, she would rather call me everytime for me to tell her to do the exact same thing every time. It's ridiculous.

Some people just don't get it. :) Maybe they don't retain the stuff that's trivial to us because their priorities and interests are different.

[ankspo71]

Don't do it, because in the end you don't get any peace and quiet. You end up working for nothing. Then they start calling you in the day when your at work with the most stupid pathetic problems you can think of. The latest is

"You fixed the machine, but the card size seems kind of different in Solitaire. What have you done to the machine"

](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)](*,)

I know the feeling...

[earthpigg]

Explain your ignorance of these new systems since you weren't trained on them but that you'll "try". Then break it. Works with ironing, sewing, house-painting, child-minding...

when i was a teen, i wanted nothing to do with babysitting.

so, when given the task...

baby brother started crying.

verified he wasn't actually in any physical danger of any type.

put him in car seat.

put car seat in parents room on other side of house.

closed door. went back to living room.

turned video games up louder so i couldn't hear crying.

the problem of being tasked with babysitting? solved.


(from then on, it was not uncommon for the hired babysitter to be younger than me :lolflag: )

[Exodist]

when i was a teen, i wanted nothing to do with babysitting.

so, when given the task...

baby started crying.

verified he wasn't actually in any physical danger of any type.

put him in car seat.

put car seat in parents room on other side of house.

closed door. went back to living room.

turned video games up louder so i couldn't hear crying.

problem solved.



EPIC!!! LMAO...


If it wasnt for strict laws I would do this to my wife!!

[earthpigg]

If it wasnt for strict laws I would do this to my wife!!

paint it as a kinky new bedroom game and gain her willing consent.

[mmalone21]

I can easily see your point.
Lucky for me though the only thing on this planet I can not do or dont do is medical surgery. :-)

I am the same way and have actually considered going to medical school to "fix" that problem.

[swoll1980]

I hate the weird **** people accuse me of breaking on their machines. The other day this lady called me up 5 months after I fixed her pc accusing me of of messing her HP photo software up. Turns out it was a bug in the program that would mess the whole thing up if a avi file was the first file in a folder. I told her I knew what was wrong, it has nothing to do with me, and I would fix it for $50.

[juancarlospaco]

Charge for your Work!!!

You go to Medic and get free $0 surgery because is your Friend...?

[mmalone21]

I hate the weird **** people accuse me of breaking on their machines. The other day this lady called me up 5 months after I fixed her pc accusing me of of messing her HP photo software up. Turns out it was a bug in the program that would mess the whole thing up if a avi file was the first file in a folder. I told her I knew what was wrong, it has nothing to do with me, and I would fix it for $50.

I know I get that from certain people and the interesting thing is I "fix" most peoples computers for free and only charge the ones who are perpetually blaming me for the Viruses they get on there windows machines, and try to deny the types of websites they go to when I can see from there web history in Internet Explorer what shits they have been to. As far as why they don't use Firefox and can't seem to update their Anti virus software, well you can't blame me because it is not for a lack of me installing and configuring them on their machines.

[mmalone21]

Charge for your Work!!!

You go to Medic and get free $0 surgery because is your Friend...?

Yea that does not seem to work as well as the plumber/mechanic analogy.

[renkinjutsu]

Luckily my family members don't ask me for help. My Dad's asked me for some tips when he was playing around with various Linux distros, but they weren't the dreaded "fix my computer" kind of things. My mom asks my Dad, because he's good with Windows, and my sister is competent enough to find solutions to her problems herself.

However, if I put a Linux distro on my Mom's computer, I'd never hear the end of it.

Now everyone's drooling over your family..

reminds me of that "switching moms" commercial.. i forget what it was advertising.. Kleenex? a car?

[swoll1980]

I know I get that from certain people and the interesting thing is I "fix" most peoples computers for free and only charge the ones who are perpetually blaming me for the Viruses they get on there windows machines, and try to deny the types of websites they go to when I can see from there web history in Internet Explorer what shits they have been to. As far as why they don't use Firefox and can't seem to update their Anti virus software, well you can't blame me because it is not for a lack of me installing and configuring them on their machines.

About a month ago I charged this couple $100 to clean a couple, yes a couple of rouge AV programs of their system, and find out how they got there. The wife asked me where they came from I said "probably the porn sites you go to" She looks at her husband, and he says "I was never on no porn sites" so I show her the web history, and I erase it for her, and told them to stay of of those sites. Two weeks later she calls, and says "You didn't do a good job, the anti virus popups are back again." I told her how to view the web history, and sure enough it's full of porn again. Another $100 in my pocket.

[mmalone21]

About a month ago I charged this couple $100 to clean a couple, yes a couple of rouge AV programs of their system, and find out how they got there. The wife asked me where they came from I said "probably the porn sites you go to" She looks at her husband, and he says "I was never on no porn sites" so I show her the web history, and I erase it for her, and told them to stay of of those sites. Two weeks later she calls, and says "You didn't do a good job, the anti virus popups are back again." I told her how to view the web history, and sure enough it's full of porn again. Another $100 in my pocket.

I know what you mean. I sometimes worry that one of these times someone will end up getting a divorce over me finding out what is on their machine.

[Giant Speck]

About a month ago I charged this couple $100 to clean a couple, yes a couple of rouge AV programs of their system, and find out how they got there. The wife asked me where they came from I said "probably the porn sites you go to" She looks at her husband, and he says "I was never on no porn sites" so I show her the web history, and I erase it for her, and told them to stay of of those sites. Two weeks later she calls, and says "You didn't do a good job, the anti virus popups are back again." I told her how to view the web history, and sure enough it's full of porn again. Another $100 in my pocket.

Ignorance is bliss. Or, should I say her ignorance is his bliss? Because she seems to not be bright enough to connect the dots...

[ugm6hr]

Charge for your Work!!!

You go to Medic and get free $0 surgery because is your Friend...?

Actually - this does happen - so a good comparison...

[3rdalbum]

The last time I fixed someone's computer (well, it was just a "retrieve data off a Windows machine that won't boot" job), I found pictures of one of the guy's female friends, possibly girlfriend, flashing the camera.

I was going to charge him $200, but in the end I'm giving him a $20 discount for giving me a laugh and giving me a story to tell forever :-)

[Khakilang]

I been there before but when I start charging and still am but they will make phone calls and ask me to guide them them step by step through the phone. At the end they end with a hefty phone bills. Why not just pay me instead.

Normally I would recommend them to get a book instead be it Window or Linux. Its the book that get me through to Linux. Or better still start selling books to them and make a profit.

[kaldor]

I know what you mean. I sometimes worry that one of these times someone will end up getting a divorce over me finding out what is on their machine.

A friend of mine had that happen. Somebody paid him to clean up his computer, and he found gay porn on the man's machine. She left.

[Khakilang]

A friend of mine had that happen. Somebody paid him to clean up his computer, and he found gay porn on the man's machine. She left.

I found porn stuff on a computer that belong to an elderly couple. The computer had virus so I check their browsing history to see where the virus come from and I only found porn sites. I wonder what they are up to all this while?
:lolflag::lolflag::lolflag:

[NightwishFan]

I had to teach someone to use a computer today... Their first time ever using one, an Ubuntu laptop. This person is also older than me. The dialog went as such. HONESTLY.



Me: Ok, to turn your computer off, you push the power button. *Points*
Person: This? *taps it and the 'Shutdown..' dialog comes up*
Me: Okay and then you...
Person: Wait! WAIT! Your going too FAST!!! *sobs*


They actually nearly cried, no lies. I told them perhaps we should call it a day (Honestly they learned fine for the first 10 minutes, and managed to start up and get on a web browser and sign up for an email account on their own with minimal guidance. From now on I refuse to teethe people. I quite understand they do not know what even basic stuff like 'right click' is, but they always get frustrated and take it out on the instructor.

I can't wait for Gnome 3 to come out, make things more visual. You do not notice how complicated the current window management really is unless you see it through the eyes of a beginner. I could not even explain the logic of it to them.

[Swagman]

I happened to Gary Glitter (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/517604.stm) too.



The charges came after a member of staff spotted the material on Glitter's computer, in for repair at PC World in Bristol.

[mmalone21]

I had to teach someone to use a computer today... Their first time ever using one, an Ubuntu laptop. This person is also older than me. The dialog went as such. HONESTLY.



They actually nearly cried, no lies. I told them perhaps we should call it a day (Honestly they learned fine for the first 10 minutes, and managed to start up and get on a web browser and sign up for an email account on their own with minimal guidance. From now on I refuse to teethe people. I quite understand they do not know what even basic stuff like 'right click' is, but they always get frustrated and take it out on the instructor.

I can't wait for Gnome 3 to come out, make things more visual. You do not notice how complicated the current window management really is unless you see it through the eyes of a beginner. I could not even explain the logic of it to them.

I was trying to explain to someone who had just got a laptop with Vista on it to go the start menu (my Vista and Windows & machines are set up like the windows 98 GUI) and they had been fine using XP before, but it was my fault for the not being able to make the connection with the old "start menu" and the new circle in the bottom left corner. I finally just gave up told them I would have to make a house call and told them to unplug the laptop from the wall and take out the battery. Oh yea they were worried about running up their electric bill between then and the hour it was going to take for me to drive over there. Boy were they surprised at how easy it was to shut the thing down after I got there.