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Mr Nemo
November 20th, 2009, 03:12 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 03:29 PM
Kick him in the nuts. Yes...I fight dirty. Then grab the nearest blunt object and proceed to "show" him why he should never have trespassed in to my home.

I get a little sensitive about this kind of thing. My wife is deaf and if something like this ever happened...i'd probably be in jail...

alphaniner
November 20th, 2009, 03:38 PM
The minute I heard my dog going crazy, I would have picked up my shotgun. I'd never use the thing on anyone who didn't display a clear intent to do harm; the mere sight of a gun can be enough to scare off most morons.

cascade9
November 20th, 2009, 03:39 PM
Photograph him, make a fake facebook account and put him up as 'my hot new gay boyfriend'.

Honestly, from what I know of thieves, that was dodgy. The 'knock on the door and see if someone is home' trick' opportunism. I guess your front door was unlocked, or even better, open?

Restraining him would but dodgy as well (probably slightly less so than just walking in to someones place, but still, not cool). Probably dangerous as well. You never know what someone will have on them, I knew one thief who used to always have a machette on him when he tried similar stuff. Yes, I have known a lot of dodgy people (heroin/speed junkies, serial thieves, etc)

BTW, I would _really_ have a look at your security. Also, maybe setup a webcam or something?

Mr Nemo
November 20th, 2009, 03:43 PM
I don't own a gun, so that was out of the question.

Cascade

Yeah, my door was probably unlocked, I live in an area where this type of thing doesn't happen too often. I only lock the door If I go out. Extra security might not be a bad idea though.

forrestcupp
November 20th, 2009, 03:45 PM
Photograph him, make a fake fackbok account and put him up as 'my hot new gay boyfriend'.

:lolflag:

ZankerH
November 20th, 2009, 04:02 PM
I used to live in a rural area next to a high-traffic road, so this happened all the time. Mostly clueless morons who got lost. I am not the tourist bureau, and you have every right to use whatever force necessary to force trespassers off your property. Using firearms or at least intimidating the intruder with them is perfectly justified in such a situation.

Warprunner
November 20th, 2009, 04:13 PM
Get a CCW (Concealled Carry Weapon License). Sounds like you need it.

Mr Nemo
November 20th, 2009, 04:24 PM
I don't know about other states, but in New Jersey it's actually illegal to assault someone even though they are on your property without your permission, unless they pose an immediate threat and you don't have a feasible escape route. Although that doesn't mean you can't say he "advanced" on you and cornered you I suppose. There was a case in Jersey where a man broke into some guys house and broke his foot in the process. The man who owned the house was sued by the burglar for unsafe conditions, or something like that, and mental anguish since he got stuck somewhere during the break in and couldn't free himself for a few hours. In conclusion, New Jersey has horrible laws and should be ashamed of themselves.

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 04:33 PM
I don't know about other states, but in New Jersey it's actually illegal to assault someone even though they are on your property without your permission, unless they pose an immediate threat and you don't have a feasible escape route. Although that doesn't mean you can't say he "advanced" on you and cornered you I suppose. There was a case in Jersey where a man broke into some guys house and broke his foot in the process. The man who owned the house was sued by the burglar for unsafe conditions, or something like that, and mental anguish since he got stuck somewhere during the break in and couldn't free himself for a few hours. In conclusion, New Jersey has horrible laws and should be ashamed of themselves.

What about IN your property/home? Obviously if he standing on the Lawn, I would not beat him down...but IN my home...that's self defense brotha. Your word against his...

Dragonbite
November 20th, 2009, 04:37 PM
That's why I have swords for "decoration" all around the house.

Yeah, he could reach them too, if he thinks to notice them. Meanwhile, I know how to use them so I have a slight advantage :)

Seriously, you ran him out of your house and called the cops? Sounds like the best thing to do! After the number of fatal home invasions in the news I would expect lethal actions to be very possible.

Warprunner
November 20th, 2009, 04:45 PM
Although that doesn't mean you can't say he "advanced" on you and cornered you I suppose.

Thats it exactly. You can't shoot someone for stealing anything. You can however pop him if your life is threatened. I would also say if he is walking into your house that boldly, he is carrying something. Putting a pistol to his head and telling him to empty his pockets could be of a benefit. You could rob him! HAHAHHAHAHAAHA (Lemonade from Lemons)
Seriously though, if he was there to rob you...the gun is a deterrent. Also word would get around in "those" circles and the normal burglar would stay away!

emigrant
November 20th, 2009, 04:54 PM
I would lure him into the house and lock the door before calling the police.
Or if u know karate kind of things u can put him unconcious in one punch and then investigate.

AlexZaim
November 20th, 2009, 05:22 PM
You had a perfect chance to domonstrate to him the culture of ubuntu (hospitality) and you've missed it. How could you!

earthpigg
November 20th, 2009, 05:26 PM
you should have shot him immediately.

edit: assuming you have an 'intruders will be shot' sign, or similar, prominently displayed. wouldn't want to be unfair about things.

im pretty sure this guy was intent on robbing you.

marco123
November 20th, 2009, 05:32 PM
You did exactly the right thing. These situations rarely work out well for either party, so count yourself lucky. You're still alive (and free), that's a good outcome.

In future: lock your door!

Warpnow
November 20th, 2009, 05:45 PM
you should have shot him immediately.

edit: assuming you have an 'intruders will be shot' sign, or similar, prominently displayed. wouldn't want to be unfair about things.

im pretty sure this guy was intent on robbing you.

And in most US states, he'd have spent a considerible amount of time in jail following the incident.

You can't just shoot someone for trespasssing. Its not self-defense unless you're life is threatened. Only a couple states have laws which allow you to take life in defense of property, pretty sure New Jersey isn't one of them.

And even in the ones where it is, people still get prosecuted for this kind of thing. What if he had a semi-legitimate reason for being there. I mean, no one should walk into someone else's house, but some people are idiots. I had distant family members, who I barely recognize walk into my house before. Freaked me out for a bit.

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 05:48 PM
*snip*Its not self-defense unless you're life is threatened.*snip*

1. Depends on you definition of this.
2. Home owners word against intruders.

scottuss
November 20th, 2009, 05:52 PM
For those of us that live in places where owning a gun isn't legal (UK) I'd say ask him who the hell he is and let's see his ID.

If he hasn't got any, then get out otherwise I set the dog on him.

Waving a gun in his face when he hasn't demonstrated any violence seems a bit harsh. The laws on defending your own property are pretty sketchy here and there have been cases where people who come into your home uninvited have been able to sue when you've hit them with something or caused them distress in some way. It's ridiculous but it happens unfortunately.

I don't think everyone being allowed to own a gun is the answer though... we have enough problems with knives here.

Dragonbite
November 20th, 2009, 05:53 PM
1. Depends on you definition of this.
2. Home owners word against intruders.

Not if he's dead. ;)


Seriously, though, as a friend of mine said regarding a gun, if a burgler comes into your house at night Lock yourself in your bedroom (keep a cell phone in there/with you as well as your gun) Tell him (and do it) you are calling the police If he is breaking down the door, try using pepper spray if you have any If he breaks down the door, he's proven that he isn't afraid of the cops, that he wants YOU... so you can shoot

You've shown that you tried to protect yourself without lethal force, and he's demonstrated the willingness to use force to get at you.

ZankerH
November 20th, 2009, 06:00 PM
For those of us that live in places where owning a gun isn't legal (UK) I'd say ask him who the hell he is and let's see his ID.

He's already breaking the law by trespassing, so it's not exactly a stretch to assume he's also broken the law by arming himself properly.

If guns are illegal, only criminals will have them.

edit: Besides, why the hell do you care who he is? You're not the police, your only concern should be getting him off your property.

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 06:14 PM
Not if he's dead. ;)

Depends on your lawyer. ;-)

101011010010
November 20th, 2009, 06:19 PM
Hello there.
It sounds like he was seeing if you had anything worth coming back for......

ExSuSEusr
November 20th, 2009, 06:48 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

I own two Glocks... a .40 cal and a 10mm. He would have been introduced to Mr. Glocks smiling end until the police showed up.

tele_mark
November 20th, 2009, 06:51 PM
I CCW and have a S&W 340M&P .357 revolver in my pocket at all times when I'm home. That being said, I lock my doors so I won't have to use it, which is what you should've done.

sudoer541
November 20th, 2009, 06:59 PM
I don't know about other states, but in New Jersey it's actually illegal to assault someone even though they are on your property without your permission, unless they pose an immediate threat and you don't have a feasible escape route. Although that doesn't mean you can't say he "advanced" on you and cornered you I suppose. There was a case in Jersey where a man broke into some guys house and broke his foot in the process. The man who owned the house was sued by the burglar for unsafe conditions, or something like that, and mental anguish since he got stuck somewhere during the break in and couldn't free himself for a few hours. In conclusion, New Jersey has horrible laws and should be ashamed of themselves.

OMG!!! this is crazy if it was me I would freak out and I would hit him with something and call the police. I think if someone is in your property you have the right to defend yourself at least here in Toronto.

emigrant
November 20th, 2009, 07:05 PM
why the law is 180 degree different inside different states in the US?
what if the owner is in toronto and the intruder is from new jersy?

Warpnow
November 20th, 2009, 07:09 PM
1. Depends on you definition of this.
2. Home owners word against intruders.

1. No, the law doesn't bend to personal definitions.
2. Being shot and being arrested without a weapon (if he didn't have one) will go a long way to convincing a jury it wasn't self defense.

phrostbyte
November 20th, 2009, 07:11 PM
why the law is 180 degree different inside different states in the US?
what if the owner is in toronto and the intruder is from new jersy?

Law is different in different states. Texas has some of the most liberal gun laws and protections of self defense. Other states like New England and Pacific states tend to be more in line with European ideas about gun control, although nowhere is quite as restrictive as the UK. The Constitution protects the right of American citizens to have weapons, and it is argued that a armed populace can keep a government honest.

Warpnow
November 20th, 2009, 07:13 PM
why the law is 180 degree different inside different states in the US?
what if the owner is in toronto and the intruder is from new jersy?

Some very conservative states in the US have passed laws allowing lethal defense of property. It doesn't matter where -anyone- is from. It only matters where the crime occured.

ussndmac
November 20th, 2009, 07:14 PM
Consider yourself lucky.

I live near the town where a mother was murdered in her sleep and the daughter mutilated by 4 teens with machete's at 2 in the morning. They just waltzed in and started chopping.

The perps are lucky though...they chose the one house in New Hampshire that didn't have a dog or a gun.

emigrant
November 20th, 2009, 07:14 PM
sorry i meant to say what if the owner is in new england and the intruder is in new jersy?
whose law will be implemented
(i forgot toronto is in canada :( )

phrostbyte
November 20th, 2009, 07:15 PM
sorry i meant to say what if the owner is in new england and the intruder is in new jersy?
whose law will be implemented
(i forgot toronto is in canada :( )

New Jersey is usually considered part of New England, or the American Northeast.

epsolon77
November 20th, 2009, 07:18 PM
Get out your camera phone, snap a pic, ask him to leave and call 911. This way he knows you have info on his identity, and calling 911 means they have a trace on the cell call, know there is trouble, and have a link to the phone. Never approach or confront him. In close proximity guns are not as effective as people would like to believe, unless you are trying to kill. Otherwise they are only a threat. Remember, a glock will shoot you just as fast as someone else, and your ability to hit an attacking target at close range is not that great. There was as study where they gave a handful of college students paint ball pistols, sat them in a class KNOWING and intruder was going to come in shooting, and only one person got shots off, and those shots missed. Stay away from the intruder, if he makes a move tword you, go to a room with a window, close lock and bar the door. No matter how well trained you are at fighting, you don't know what the other person's level of training is, and you don't know what equipment he has to work with. On the other hand, you have a picture, and law enforcement on your side, and on their way.


P.S. My view on guns here comes from the fact that I grew up with guns, am very proficient with guns, believe in gun ownership. I do not own any guns because I have no use for them, and I have children in the house.

gchand7
November 20th, 2009, 07:21 PM
Shoot him, go to the kitchen get a knife put that in his hand. go outside close the dood break glass out reenter call 911 and say you just shot an intruder that was coming at you with a knife....closed case

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 07:25 PM
1. No, the law doesn't bend to personal definitions.
2. Being shot and being arrested without a weapon (if he didn't have one) will go a long way to convincing a jury it wasn't self defense.

1. What I feel as a "my life is being threatened" can be completely different that another persons. Walking IN to my home when I have not allowed you to come in, I fell that is a threat to my life. How do I know that you dont have a gun on the pocket of your hoodie or a knife to stab me with?

2. Kinda ties to #1

emigrant
November 20th, 2009, 07:25 PM
Shoot him, go to the kitchen get a knife put that in his hand. go outside close the dood break glass out reenter call 911 and say you just shot an intruder that was coming at you with a knife....closed case
watchout man, he may be your brother who was lost in childhood :KS
edit:
the knife has your wifes fingerprint :D

lukeiamyourfather
November 20th, 2009, 07:36 PM
Verizon? I don't think so. Should'a kicked his ***. He's looking to rob someone and since he didn't get your stuff he'll do the same to someone else that isn't home. I went to school in rural Texas, if somebody pulled that there they'd be dead right now. Also who lives in NJ and doesn't lock their doors?

Twitch6000
November 20th, 2009, 07:39 PM
The minute I heard my dog going crazy, I would have picked up my shotgun. I'd never use the thing on anyone who didn't display a clear intent to do harm; the mere sight of a gun can be enough to scare off most morons.

+1 to the shotgun.

I have a few laying around and i am just waiting for a chance to shoot something lol.

tjwoosta
November 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

Where I live you're allowed to shoot people that break into your house. I keep a shotgun in my room.

chucky chuckaluck
November 20th, 2009, 08:07 PM
i realize this is going to make me sound like someone from another planet, but you could try locking your doors.

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 08:08 PM
i realize this is going to make me sound like someone from another planet, but you could try locking your doors.

ALIEN! Shoot the trespasser!

dca
November 20th, 2009, 08:09 PM
C'mon, we're still talking about Jersey here! Not England or Australia... I'm surprised it ended up having a not too bad of an ending versus headlines reading "Home Invasion Intruder Shot In Self Defense" or "Single Guy With Dog Raped And Murdered And Left For Dead, Cops Looking For 'Can You Hear Me Now' Guy With Hoodie"

...by the by it's considered a 'Mid-Atlantic' state along with New York...

life2short1971
November 20th, 2009, 08:09 PM
Florida is shoot first ask later....any questions?

Excedio
November 20th, 2009, 08:10 PM
Florida is shoot first ask later....any questions?

Yes. How does the Senior Citizen hold up such a heavy gun?

life2short1971
November 20th, 2009, 08:12 PM
Yes. How does the Senior Citizen hold up such a heavy gun?
lmao

alphaniner
November 20th, 2009, 08:16 PM
Yes. How does the Senior Citizen hold up such a heavy gun?

The 20/20 special 'Guns in America' showcased a woman who looked like she could barely stand on her own scare off intruders by just brandishing a shotty. I think at least one of the intruders was armed, too, but I'm not 100% on that.

Chronon
November 20th, 2009, 08:29 PM
Get a CCW (Concealled Carry Weapon License). Sounds like you need it.

Being that this happened at home, CCW is moot.

pwnst*r
November 20th, 2009, 08:31 PM
holy crap. that'll teach you to lock your door(s)

t0p
November 20th, 2009, 08:33 PM
All the advice to pull a gun on the intruder is a little misguided. An awful lot of homeowners with guns in the house get shot with their own weapons. If you are proficient with firearms, maybe that'd fly. But I'm doubtful on that: shooting at a target is very different to shooting at a person. So be careful.

I noticed you said that the guy claimed to be from Verizon. Well, I listened to Off the Hook (http://www.2600.com/oth/) last night, and there was an unusual story about a door-to-door Verizon salesman. This guy answered the door to a Verizon salesman and said that he was still paying a promotional rate to Comcast so Verizon service cost more. The salesman left. A short while later, the guy got a phone call from someone claiming to be Comcast. This "Comcast" person said that the guy's promotional discount was coming to an end and the guy wlould have to pay some ridiculously expensive rate. The guy was put out by this; he hung up but a little later he called Comcast to discuss things further. And the people at Comcast had no idea what he was talking about: his promotional rate was not set to expire any time soon, and no one from Comcast had called him. So he figured it was maybe the Verizon man trying to drum up more business.

I'm not suggesting that the same man is responible for both of these incidents. I just thought it was an odd coincidence.

samh785
November 20th, 2009, 08:40 PM
you should have chucked live cds at him

lisati
November 20th, 2009, 08:40 PM
If you're going to ring the emergency services, use a landline if possible, because it's easier for them to track the call back to a precise location. I don't know about other countries, but in New Zealand details are automatically forwarded to the emergency services, even if you have a confidential listing.

On a lighter note, dog owners could also install a sign somewhere to the effect, "Beware of the dog. Trespassers will be eaten."

alphaniner
November 20th, 2009, 08:49 PM
All the advice to pull a gun on the intruder is a little misguided. An awful lot of homeowners with guns in the house get shot with their own weapons.

Might I see your sources, sir?

BuffaloX
November 20th, 2009, 08:57 PM
I had a neighbor once, who experienced something similar.
Except the burglar had a gun.
My neighbor went raving mad, overpowered the burglar took hes gun and shot him dead.

I didn't know him before the incident, but I was told it kind of drove him crazy, and he never was the same after that.

Dragonbite
November 20th, 2009, 09:04 PM
Consider yourself lucky.

I live near the town where a mother was murdered in her sleep and the daughter mutilated by 4 teens with machete's at 2 in the morning. They just waltzed in and started chopping.

The perps are lucky though...they chose the one house in New Hampshire that didn't have a dog or a gun.

Yeah, I remember that in the news. I'm about 2 towns away from the Cheshire (CT) home invasion where the mother and 2 daughters were killed and the father only survived.

t0p
November 20th, 2009, 09:04 PM
If you're going to ring the emergency services, use a landline if possible, because it's easier for them to track the call back to a precise location. I don't know about other countries, but in New Zealand details are automatically forwarded to the emergency services, even if you have a confidential listing.

Yeah, that's standard for any semi-modern exchange. The feature that enables the operator to know what number you're calling from is not the same thing as the Caller ID feature available to domestic customers.



On a lighter note, dog owners could also install a sign somewhere to the effect, "Beware of the dog. Trespassers will be eaten."

I live in an area with a very high burglary rate. My flat has been broken into several times over the past 15 years. But since I got my American Bulldog a couple of years ago I haven't had a whiff of burglars. See, I'm pretty sure the burglar or burglars live locally, so they've probably seen me walking the dog. She's pretty big, so maybe the burglar doesn't fancy being eaten by her. And her bark is so loud! A sound that sets 'em packing!

I don't know about the USA, but "Beware of the dog" signs are not a good idea in the UK. Courts have ruled that by posting a "Beware of the dog" sign, the owner is admitting that he knows his dog is potentially dangerous; and it's against the law to fail to keep the dog under control. Maybe you'd say that the dog was under control, that you wanted him to bite the trespasser. The courts wouldn't like that. So if you're on someone's land and the landowner's dog bit you, you could sue him if he displayed such a sign! So nowadays you see dog owners hanging signs that bear a picture of a mean-looking dog and the words "I live here!" That isn't an admission of anything more than that a dog lives there.

alphaniner
November 20th, 2009, 09:11 PM
I don't know about the USA, but "Beware of the dog" signs are not a good idea in the UK. Courts have ruled that by posting a "Beware of the dog" sign, the owner is admitting that he knows his dog is a potential biter.

This is utter, bass-ackwards madness. If anything, it should be to an owner's credit for posting such a sign if he knows his dog is dangerous.

Exodist
November 20th, 2009, 09:27 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?


Since i have a wife and daughter. My response is simple.

12 Gauge Pump, Dead man cant press charges.

RATM_Owns
November 20th, 2009, 10:51 PM
I have a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again."

If you know karate, knock him out, then tape/tie him to a chair and hold him hostage until the cops come.

Oh the irony.

emigrant
November 20th, 2009, 10:55 PM
I have a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again."


:lolflag:](*,)

Shibblet
November 20th, 2009, 10:58 PM
Unless Catherine Zeta Jones walks up to your house talking T-Mobile, don't let them in.

http://www.photopumpkin.com/wp-content/uploads/catherine-zeta-jones-6.jpg

Sealbhach
November 20th, 2009, 11:19 PM
It was a good opportunity to demonstrate Ubuntu. You could have shown him that everything heard about Linux being difficult to use was wrong.

.

squilookle
November 20th, 2009, 11:21 PM
I have a sign that says "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again."

That appeared on one of the loading screens for GTA, t'is funny.

Sounds like you did the right thing. You can't just attack him, because even if he doesn't get the better of you, he's likely to take legal action and have more rights than you.

indiandruid
November 21st, 2009, 12:29 AM
A thin guy with a hoodie. Hmmm. I think he might be after some crack. I wonder why he called himself a verizon guy, prob scanning wifi's with his cellphone outside...

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 21st, 2009, 12:53 AM
I would chase him out of the house without asking. AKA, get the **** out now! If he didn't leave, I would hit him or get a weapon.

In other words: I wouldn't give him the opportunity to hurt me.

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 01:35 AM
Being the police aint your job, you did the right thing you got him out your house without putting anybody in extra danger, much better than a similar story i read where the guy shot an intruder without warning...twice (sure she was in his house, but that doesn't mean she deserved to die)

+1 i would do the same same.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 21st, 2009, 01:42 AM
@ above post. Yes, your response made me want to clarify what I said. I would explain to him that he's not welcome in my house and he needs to leave. Then if he made a threatening move I would subdue him if I thought it was necessary.

gletob
November 21st, 2009, 01:58 AM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home around 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

My personal opinion: I'd have my 12 gauge pointed at his head, tell him not to move walk down the steps, tell him to lay down in the middle of the room hand behind back, and then call 911 and have him arrested for Braking & Entering and Attempted Burglary.


Being the police ain't your job, you did the right thing you got him out your house without putting anybody in extra danger, much better than a similar story i read where the guy shot an intruder without warning...twice (sure she was in his house, but that doesn't mean she deserved to die)

+1 i would do the same same.

Speak for your self, I take MY health & well-being very seriously, and if that means blowing some dudes head off if necessary then so be it.


I would chase him out of the house without asking. AKA, get the **** out now! If he didn't leave, I would hit him or get a weapon.

In other words: I wouldn't give him the opportunity to hurt me.

That's a good way to get shot.

The minute I heard my dog going crazy, I would have picked up my shotgun. I'd never use the thing on anyone who didn't display a clear intent to do harm; the mere sight of a gun can be enough to scare off most morons.
Exactly

why the law is 180 degree different inside different states in the US?
what if the owner is in Toronto and the intruder is from new jersey?
Your prosecuted under Toronto law, by a Toronto court.

sorry i meant to say what if the owner is in new england and the intruder is in new jersy?
whose law will be implemented
(i forgot toronto is in canada :sad: )
Oh, New England is not a actual government municpality, but simple the title of a region in the north east US. (Original the colonies of New England E.g. New France (Quebec Canada) New Netherlands (New York).

Shoot him, go to the kitchen get a knife put that in his hand. go outside close the dood break glass out reenter call 911 and say you just shot an intruder that was coming at you with a knife....closed case
While I obviously agree to having a gun ready, shooting should only be resorted to if neseccary.

If you're going to ring the emergency services, use a landline if possible, because it's easier for them to track the call back to a precise location. I don't know about other countries, but in New Zealand details are automatically forwarded to the emergency services, even if you have a confidential listing.
Our 911 system is similar

All the advice to pull a gun on the intruder is a little misguided. An awful lot of homeowners with guns in the house get shot with their own weapons. If you are proficient with firearms, maybe that'd fly. But I'm doubtful on that: shooting at a target is very different to shooting at a person. So be careful.

I noticed you said that the guy claimed to be from Verizon. Well, I listened to Off the Hook (http://www.2600.com/oth/) last night, and there was an unusual story about a door-to-door Verizon salesman. This guy answered the door to a Verizon salesman and said that he was still paying a promotional rate to Comcast so Verizon service cost more. The salesman left. A short while later, the guy got a phone call from someone claiming to be Comcast. This "Comcast" person said that the guy's promotional discount was coming to an end and the guy wlould have to pay some ridiculously expensive rate. The guy was put out by this; he hung up but a little later he called Comcast to discuss things further. And the people at Comcast had no idea what he was talking about: his promotional rate was not set to expire any time soon, and no one from Comcast had called him. So he figured it was maybe the Verizon man trying to drum up more business.

I'm not suggesting that the same man is responsible for both of these incidents. I just thought it was an odd coincidence.

Might I see your sources, sir?
Ditto

Since i have a wife and daughter. My response is simple.

12 Gauge Pump, Dead man cant press charges.
While I enjoy your reasoning, the state's attorney will still most definitely file charges if the law allows.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 01:59 AM
Being the police aint your job...

More often than not the police's role begins after a crime has occurred, so I don't get the correlation.


Since i have a wife and daughter. My response is simple.

12 Gauge Pump, Dead man cant press charges.


Where I live you're allowed to shoot people that break into your house. I keep a shotgun in my room.

It is good to see that some people get it. In home defense, pistols are what you use to clear a path to your shotgun/rifle, which you should have had handy in the first place.

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 02:16 AM
More often than not the police's role begins after a crime has occurred, so I don't get the correlation.
Putting yourself/other in danger by doing anything more than is necessary to get him out of your house, is not your responsibility.


@ above post. Yes, your response made me want to clarify what I said. I would explain to him that he's not welcome in my house and he needs to leave. Then if he made a threatening move I would subdue him if I thought it was necessary.
I didn't say i disagreed, I was agreeing with OP, which seams to be the same as you would have done


My personal oppinion: I'd have my 12 guage pointed at his head, tell him not to move walk down the steps, tell him to lay down in the middle of the room hand behind back, and then call 911 and have him arrested for Braking & Entering and Attempted Burglary.

Why point it at his head?
1) Your just increasing your chances of missing and doing damage to your surroundings, others (<½ wrong>your houses are paper thin in America shotgun pellets could probably go through a wall</ ½ wrong more info here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1332339&page=10), pellets can apparently go through interior walls putting others inside your house at risk, but not exterior walls>)
2) Making it clear your intent is to kill him not to defend yourself, outside of the movies there is little chance of somebody getting up and attacking you after getting hit.

It's cool that you think it's worth it put yourself in danger by restraining him yourself, but i wouldn't advise others to do the same nor do i think any less of people who don't. Tbh i just think it makes you seam foolish putting yourself at risk for some perceived benefit for a society that doesn't give a damn anyway, either that or you just want to be a hero, either way color me unimpressed.


Speak for your self, I take MY health & well-being very seriously, and if that means blowing some dudes head off if nessecary then so be it.
If you value your own health then why would you restrain them yourself, telling somebody to GTFO (optionally with a gun pointed at their stomach) is the quickest way to resolve the threat towards yourself, if they do not, then and only then is there a need to actual shoot anything, usually a warning shot will be enough, but if you do decide to shoot them aiming at the COM to remove the threat to you not going for a headshot so you can get a kill.

PhoenixMaster00
November 21st, 2009, 02:18 AM
Dude i think you did the right thing maybe taking a photo woulda been handy to show other locals but that would be extremely unlikely in the heat of the moment.

Dont know about America but in Britain the laws seem to get funnier and funnier (and not in a haha way). I no a builder who stopped someone burgling the house he was working on, him and a mate detained the guy but police said they wouldnt be able to get their for a few hours so they locked him in the back of his empty van and then when the police came arrested the builder for detaining the thief...

Oh an apparently Police will only make it a priority to stop a burglary/trespassing if they feel your life is in danger (which at that point is surely to late for the police to get there and prevent anything?).

The Real Dave
November 21st, 2009, 02:28 AM
It is good to see that some people get it. In home defense, pistols are what you use to clear a path to your shotgun/rifle, which you should have had handy in the first place.

Sounds like your preparing for a zombie attack :)


My personal oppinion: I'd have my 12 guage pointed at his head, tell him not to move walk down the steps, tell him to lay down in the middle of the room hand behind back, and then call 911 and have him arrested for Braking & Entering and Attempted Burglary.

Ok, in games you get more points for headshots, in real life, doing that wouldn't be the smartest thing. Aiming at a smaller target just gives you a bigger chance of missing. If he ducks and gets under your barrel, he has you. However, if you have it aimed at his chest, there's not much he can do. The spread and power of a 12 gauge also add to it, at close range, it would quite literally blow his head from his shoulders. He probably have a family that want to bury him too.......

In Ireland, shooting someone for trespassing is illegal, which I find ridiculous TBH. If someone enters your home, and you feel threatened, you should be allowed to defend yourself. I believe though that there is something about one shot is self defense, anymore is murder, but seeing as anyone in a rural area will most definitely have a 12gauge shotgun, one shot is plenty.

A friend of mine had a similar experience. He's 18 and though he lives with his parents, was alone one night. A guy appeared in his living room, was just standing there, looking at him. Quite creepy. Well, my friend isn't a patient guy, and is most the shot first, ask questions later kind of guy. Long story short, he frog marched him to the Garda station at two in the morning with his hand tie-wrapped.

I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I'm not a strong guy, quite the opposite, and my family don't own a firearm. Every room in the house though has some object that could be used in self defense, a knife, screwdriver, poker, those kind of things.

To me, the most important thing is that my family, and the people I care about are safe. The rest of the world can dance at the bottom of the ocean for all I care.

supermelon928
November 21st, 2009, 02:31 AM
I'd say you did the right thing. There's no need to put yourself in a violent situation, especially when you don't know what the other person will do/is capable of.

Seems like your coworkers might be doing that thing where people say "If that were me I'd lay him out on his ***!" when really they wouldn't have the guts. And it's good to not have the guts. Saying something like "Get out before I call the police" should probably be the first reaction.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 02:37 AM
Putting yourself/other in danger by doing anything more than is necessary to get him out of your house, is not your responsibility.

Putting others in danger is irresponsible, stupid, and generally criminal. But so is thinking that calling the police is going to save you, or that anything other than a gun is likely to be enough to scare someone out of your house.


Saying something like "Get out before I call the police" should probably be the first reaction.

First reaction sure, but only if you're prepared for what would happen if that doesn't have the intended effect.


Sounds like your preparing for a zombie attack :)

I was of a similar opinion when I started looking into firearms and home defense. The fact is, most handguns just aren't what many people think them to be.

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 02:53 AM
Putting others in danger is irresponsible, stupid, and generally criminal. But so is thinking that calling the police is going to save you, or that anything other than a gun is likely to be enough to scare someone out of your house.

First reaction sure, but only if you're prepared for what would happen if that doesn't have the intended effect.


Agreed.



I was of a similar opinion when I started looking into firearms and home defense. The fact is, most handguns just aren't what many people think them to be.

My Springfield Armory 1911 .45 Caliber with heavy grain Hollow-Points disagrees.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 03:04 AM
My Springfield Armory 1911 .45 Caliber loaded with Hollow-Point rounds disagrees.

As I said, most. The point is that anything smaller than a .38 is too small. But many people who aren't well versed in firearms over-estimate the stopping power of smaller calibers, and many just can't handle .45s or .38s.

pt123
November 21st, 2009, 03:17 AM
Amazing reading the get your gun responses from the Americans here.

Luckily I live in Australia.

pt123
November 21st, 2009, 03:18 AM
It was a good opportunity to demonstrate Ubuntu. You could have shown him that everything heard about Linux being difficult to use was wrong.

.

ROFL, I was about to digg you up, but realised it wasn't digg.

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 03:22 AM
As I said, most. The point is that anything smaller than a .38 is too small. But many people who aren't well versed in firearms over-estimate the stopping power of smaller calibers, and many just can't handle .45s or .38s.

You're right, and many Gun Owners do not even know how to fire their weapon. I can't tell you how many times ive heard people say they own a weapon, but its never been fired. And people wonder why so many accidents happen to the gun-owner by their own weapon? They have no proper training handling a firearm, let alone shooting it.

I'm an avid gun enthusiast. I am pro-gun ownership and I believe in my 2nd amendment.

With regards to this post. Shooting is not my first reaction. However I will not flinch to defend myself if thats what it takes. My life is ever so more valuable than the guy trying to take it. Its my life, or the trespassers. I don't care what the laws say, Nor do most citizens. Only pomp lawyers and state officials (read: Being stereotypical, not insinuating) care about what is "legal", not morally right.

As someone said, the police's job usually start after a crime has been committed. They can't save you from a trespasser because it has just happened. So yes, It is my duty to act as a policeman and protect myself, and my family. It is my life or the trespassers.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 03:23 AM
Amazing reading the get your gun responses from the Americans here.

Luckily I live in Australia.

Congratulations on being the first person to post a flame. I was surprised it remained civil as long as it did, but it's still disappointing.

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 03:30 AM
Amazing reading the get your gun responses from the Americans here.

Luckily I live in Australia.

As the movie saying goes "Did you bring a knife to a gunfight?"

Having no guns does not mean you're any safer.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Look at #43

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 03:30 AM
And people wonder why so many accidents happen to the gun-owner by their own weapon? They have no proper training handling a firearm, let alone shooting it.

Be careful about posting vague accounts. I don't know about injuries, but the number of accidental deaths accounted for 2% (824) of gun deaths in 2006 according to a 2009 study by the CDC. Far more people die due to medical errors than mishandling of firearms.

Though I definitely agree that gun ownership isn't something to be taken lightly.

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 03:32 AM
Congratulations on being the first person to post a flame. I was surprised it remained civil as long as it did, but it's still disappointing.
Sorry but i fail to see how that is a flame, over-sensitive much?


As someone said, the police's job usually start after a crime has been committed. They can't save you from a trespasser because it has just happened. So yes, It is my duty to act as a policeman and protect myself, and my family.
Perhaps i wasn't clear my point was if you can get the guy out of your house, there is no point in detaining him, it ain't your job.


The point is that anything smaller than a .38 is too small. But many people who aren't well versed in firearms over-estimate the stopping power of smaller calibers, and many just can't handle .45s or .38s.
I've only played with rifles, but are you telling me that a couple of shot's from a .38 isn't going to stop a criminal?

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 03:33 AM
Be careful about posting vague accounts. I don't know about injuries, but the number of accidental deaths accounted for 2% (824) of gun deaths in 2006 according to a 2009 study by the CDC. Far more people die due to medical errors than mishandling of firearms.

More accidents and fatalities occur while driving than handgun related as well.

I admit I have no source, and I was going on a rant due to what someone else had posted. :-?

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 03:36 AM
Perhaps i wasn't clear my point was if you can get the guy out of your house, there is no point in detaining him, it ain't your job.

In this respect I can agree.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 03:39 AM
Sorry but i fail to see how that is a flame, over-sensitive much?

Because he made a jab about nationality and added absolutely nothing to the discussion. That is the definition of a flame.

I'm not bothered personally. But obviously firearm ownership is a sensitive issue, and it won't take much for this to devolve into a flame war.

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 03:44 AM
As the movie saying goes "Did you bring a knife to a gunfight?"

Having no guns does not mean you're any safer.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita

Look at #43
this is OT but what is your point?
# 24 United States: 0.042802 per 1,000 people
# 43 Australia: 0.0150324 per 1,000 people (nearly 3 times less)
# 46 United Kingdom: 0.0140633 per 1,000 people
etc

Most western countries are significantly lower than the US, so statistically having no guns does make you safer. Of course results from one nation can't directly be applied to others, but i think all he was saying was he's glad he lives in Australia where there are less guns and fewer people would immediately jump to the conclusion that the intruder should be shot (which some people seam to have gone to in this thread, I suspect few of those know/understand guns)

Cuddles McKitten
November 21st, 2009, 03:49 AM
Most western countries are significantly lower than the US, so statistically having no guns does make you safer.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 03:55 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation


Most western countries are significantly lower than the US, so statistically having no guns does make you safer. Of course results from one nation can't directly be applied to others


I think he was very fair in his assessment.

Mr Nemo
November 21st, 2009, 04:02 AM
Wow there are so many posts i wanna respond to. I didn't expect so many people to reply to this. Thanks to everyone for your input.

wulfgang
November 21st, 2009, 04:02 AM
Photograph him, make a fake facebook account and put him up as 'my hot new gay boyfriend'.

Honestly, from what I know of thieves, that was dodgy. The 'knock on the door and see if someone is home' trick' opportunism. I guess your front door was unlocked, or even better, open?

Restraining him would but dodgy as well (probably slightly less so than just walking in to someones place, but still, not cool). Probably dangerous as well. You never know what someone will have on them, I knew one thief who used to always have a machette on him when he tried similar stuff. Yes, I have known a lot of dodgy people (heroin/speed junkies, serial thieves, etc)

BTW, I would _really_ have a look at your security. Also, maybe setup a webcam or something?

Actually, I have a machete right next to my desk. I guess that would not really work when the robber has a machete also.

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 04:04 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation
Correlation doesn't mean something is not the cause either. If you look at similar countries to the US one significant differences is gun law. Canada and Australia are both similar to America in most ways* yet have significantly lower murder rates, in absence of a better theory i would say that the lack of US gun law is a significant factor in the US having a higher murder rate.

I'm not saying banning (or even regulating) guns in the US would be a good idea, but dismissing it as a factor in the significantly higher murder rate just because "Correlation does not imply causation" is silly. But i wasn't even saying that initially all i was asking is what Firestem4's point was as he claimed guns don't make you less safe but then produced a list where similar countries without guns rank much lower.

*I remember hearing that a middle class American is just as likely to get shot as a middle class European because America has a very different class structure, so direct comparisons are not fair, but i do believe i addressed that in my initial post.

pt123
November 21st, 2009, 04:07 AM
Because he made a jab about nationality and added absolutely nothing to the discussion. That is the definition of a flame.
It does matter, you look at all the gun responses most are from people in the US. These actions might be more of a norm there but to others living in other developed nations it sounds extreme.

Mr Nemo
November 21st, 2009, 04:09 AM
i realize this is going to make me sound like someone from another planet, but you could try locking your doors.


Verizon? I don't think so. Should'a kicked his ***. He's looking to rob someone and since he didn't get your stuff he'll do the same to someone else that isn't home. I went to school in rural Texas, if somebody pulled that there they'd be dead right now. Also who lives in NJ and doesn't lock their doors?


I do lock my doors when I go out. I have lived in New Jersey my whole life and have never had this problem or any problem like this. The area I live in is actually known to be very safe with very low crime. A lot of people leave their doors unlocked in my neighborhood.


OMG!!! this is crazy if it was me I would freak out and I would hit him with something and call the police. I think if someone is in your property you have the right to defend yourself at least here in Toronto.

I completely agree, and I repeat: New Jersey has some ***-backwards laws and should be ashamed of themselves. At least in my opinion.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 04:15 AM
It does matter, you look at all the gun responses most are from people in the US. These actions might be more of a norm there but to others living in other developed nations it sounds extreme.

Do you see the difference between saying that, and saying "Amazing reading the get your gun responses from the Americans here."?

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 04:15 AM
It does matter, you look at all the gun responses most are from people in the US. These actions might be more of a norm there but to others living in other developed nations it sounds extreme.
In fairness I think America is a larger nation as so has a larger number of misinformed people, if you look at posts from most Americans (including all those who know about guns) they tend to say the same things the rest of us say:
1) Violence should be avoided when possible
2) Killing shouldn't be your primary aim (not just morally but also aiming for the "center of mass" is much better from a 'technical' perspective)
3) With/without a gun there is no need to be a "hero"

venator260
November 21st, 2009, 04:21 AM
your houses are paper thin in America shotgun pellets could probably go through a wall)

Shotgun "pellets" would not go through a wall. If the drywall didn't stop them, then the plywood on the outside of the house definitely would. Of course, if you have buckshot loads, there would be a bit more penetration.

I wouldn't have responded, except that I have shot plywood many times (holding targets). The bb's at most indent themselves enough to stick, rarely to they even bury themselves completely.

And also, I'm rather surprised that this thread has not gotten too heated to remain open, especially with the amount of pro-gun opinions being voiced.

Edit: And I supposed I would fall into the above poster's definition of "informed gun owner." Ideally, I would want to let the intruder know that I had a firearm and would use it if necessary, but his leaving my house quickly with no further problems would be the best result after he was already in my house.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 04:34 AM
Shotgun "pellets" would not go through a wall. If the drywall didn't stop them, then the plywood on the outside of the house definitely would.

I think he was talking about interior walls, and the safety of others in the house. This is definitely something that has to be considered with a shotgun. And birdshot is not really considered to be a defense-appropriate load.

Tipped OuT
November 21st, 2009, 04:43 AM
1 Word.

AK-47.

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Business/images-3/AK47.jpg

tjwoosta
November 21st, 2009, 04:54 AM
Everyone seems to be forgetting that shotgun doesn't necessarily mean kill. I have bird shot, pepper shot, and rubber shot next to my shotgun, not buckshot or slugs.

These are all still very dangerous and quite possibly lethal, but much less lethal and still a good defense against home intruders. The bird shot is composed of a bunch of tiny bb's that will spread out when shot and literally spray the target with bb's. Its great for killing squirrels and birds, not so great for killing larger animals or people, but it would cause a lot of damage. The pepper shot is almost like the bird shot except composed of tiny chunks of cayanne peppers that would burn like hell if you get shot with it but is much less likely to kill. The rubber shot is basically a rubber blob that would cause a huge bruise and possibly break bones, but it wont penetrate the skin unless you are shooting from point blank. They also make a bean bag shot which shoots a bean bag and does essentially the same as the rubber shot except even less lethal.

I don't know how things are in the rest of the world, maybe it is more peaceful and civilized, but here in America its not a bad idea to have some protection against somebody who's a threat to you or your family, and believe it or not home invasions are not uncommon. Would you rather be defenseless and just sit there and watch?

kyuubi777
November 21st, 2009, 04:54 AM
i always have a weapon withing reach
first i would have yelled at him to stop or i would immobilize him alst the while grabiing the nearest item at my desposal (most likely a box cutter.. if i could i would already have it concealed)
if he continued i would wait for him to make a move and strike him in the arms, legs or sides so as to cause severe damage without the likelihood for fatality

Exodist
November 21st, 2009, 05:09 AM
Unless Catherine Zeta Jones walks up to your house talking T-Mobile, don't let them in.

http://www.photopumpkin.com/wp-content/uploads/catherine-zeta-jones-6.jpg

O dear... If Cat walked into my house I would break open one of those 10 year old wines I got on the shelf..

pwnst*r
November 21st, 2009, 05:11 AM
lol you goons, this isn't CoD.

ExSuSEusr
November 21st, 2009, 05:14 AM
This is utter, bass-ackwards madness. If anything, it should be to an owner's credit for posting such a sign if he knows his dog is dangerous.

That's liberalism for you.

Exodist
November 21st, 2009, 05:21 AM
lol you goons, this isn't CoD.

CoD? Cash on Delivery? :D

Slug71
November 21st, 2009, 05:22 AM
Get a CCW (Concealled Carry Weapon License). Sounds like you need it.

This.

ExSuSEusr
November 21st, 2009, 05:30 AM
Guns are not the problem. CRIME is the problem. American "leaders" (on BOTH sides of the isle) fail to realize that in order to curve the problem you have to attack it at its root.

When crime seems to spike the US likes to pass more guns laws... laws that only affect those people who already OBEY the law in the first place. Criminals have no regard for the law, so you can pass as many "Brady Bills" as you want and it's not going to stop them from getting and using guns. In fact crime will only increase because now the criminal KNOWS you aren't armed.

There is a town here in Georgia (I think it's Kennesaw) that passed an ordinance requiring every resident to own a gun... their crime rate (last I read) has plummeted. Yeah those "evil" guns sure are ruining lives!


As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.
In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.
The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.
Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55288

The fact is guns don't cause crime. Joblessness, hopelessness, drug abuse, and a slew of other ailments cause crime. Guns are just another tool criminals use to achieve their goals. You can laugh all you want at the old adage "If you ban guns only criminals will have guns" but it is true, very true.

Exodist
November 21st, 2009, 05:40 AM
Guns are not the problem. CRIME is the problem. American "leaders" (on BOTH sides of the isle) fail to realize that in order to curve the problem you have to attack it at its root.




I agree, 99% of all major violence committed with a firearm in the US was done with a weapon purchased illegally. Even criminals are smart enough to commit a crime with a weapon that cant be easily traced back to you.

ExSuSEusr
November 21st, 2009, 05:43 AM
Oh and for those that don't know.... Kennesaw is literally right on the outskirts of Atlanta which has an astronomical crime rate.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 05:53 AM
I agree, 99% of all major violence committed with a firearm in the US was done with a weapon purchased illegally.

That's an extremely vague statement. What is 'major violence'? You shouldn't make such claims without sources to back them up.


I've only played with rifles, but are you telling me that a couple of shot's from a .38 isn't going to stop a criminal?

Sorry, I forgot to answer this earlier. Yes, a couple of shots from a .38 would do it. One shot, in most cases. And that's the point. A shot to the shoulder, or the leg, is likely to take someone down. I don't mean kill him, but literally knock him down or at least back. With smaller calibers, you're not likely to stop a determined assailant with one shot unless it's lethal.

spcwingo
November 21st, 2009, 07:07 AM
So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation?

I'd would've given him an acute case of lead poisoning.

darco
November 21st, 2009, 07:29 AM
!redrum !redrum .....
:popcorn:

Xbehave
November 21st, 2009, 07:33 AM
In fact crime will only increase because now the criminal KNOWS you aren't armed.I agree with everything else you've said, but that evidently isn't true, if you look at stats from other countries crime didn't increased when gun laws were introduced. Just because criminals know your not armed doesn't mean they are more likely to attack you, most non-career criminals are going to be more worried about being caught with a gun than whatever crime they are going to commit. The reduction in guns also makes criminals safer so they are less likely to need a gun, everything from drug dealing to mugging is done w/o the need for guns here (UK), meaning that when stuff goes bad people are less likely to die.

I'm not arguing for gun restrictions in America, I'm just saying that lack of guns doesn't increase crime rates.

Backwards Embargo
November 21st, 2009, 08:44 AM
Dont know about America but in Britain the laws seem to get funnier and funnier (and not in a haha way). I no a builder who stopped someone burgling the house he was working on, him and a mate detained the guy but police said they wouldnt be able to get their for a few hours so they locked him in the back of his empty van and then when the police came arrested the builder for detaining the thief...

Oh an apparently Police will only make it a priority to stop a burglary/trespassing if they feel your life is in danger (which at that point is surely to late for the police to get there and prevent anything?).

Reminds me of a story I heard about the police here in the US. It went something like this:

A man looks out the window of his home to see a robber breaking into his shed. He calls the police and reports the crime in action. They advise him to lock his doors and they'll send an officer right away. 1/2 hour goes by and the guy has cleared out half of the tools in the shed. Still no police. He calls the police again and is advised that all officers are occupied at the moment and will be there whenever possible.

By now, the guy has nearly stolen all of the valuable property from the shed, and the home owner is rather irate that the police don't care. So he calls the police back and tells them not to bother coming anymore. The dispatcher asks why, and the home owner says, "because I shot him dead. Now I can put all of my stuff back, and hangs up." Within a couple minutes a whole bunch of police show up, catch the robber, discover no one is dead, and arrest the home owner for making a false report.

TuckLive
November 21st, 2009, 08:57 AM
Not if he's dead. ;)


Seriously, though, as a friend of mine said regarding a gun, if a burgler comes into your house at night Lock yourself in your bedroom (keep a cell phone in there/with you as well as your gun) Tell him (and do it) you are calling the police If he is breaking down the door, try using pepper spray if you have any If he breaks down the door, he's proven that he isn't afraid of the cops, that he wants YOU... so you can shoot

You've shown that you tried to protect yourself without lethal force, and he's demonstrated the willingness to use force to get at you.

I'm so thankful that I live in a state with a Castle Law. I would never run from a robber in my own house. To the OP:

1. Lock your doors
2. Buy a gun and learn to use it properly
3. Remember this saying "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

Mr Nemo
November 21st, 2009, 10:12 AM
I'm so thankful that I live in a state with a Castle Law. I would never run from a robber in my own house. To the OP:

1. Lock your doors
2. Buy a gun and learn to use it properly
3. Remember this saying "It's better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6"

I've been meaning to get a license and buy a gun. They've just made it even harder to get a license in Jersey not to long ago. I assume a Castle Law means if someone enters your house without permission you have the right to **** them up. Must be nice...

BigSilly
November 21st, 2009, 10:25 AM
Boy am I glad I don't live in America. No offence, but some very interesting comments in this thread that rather worry me.

A few years ago we had an alarm fitted so that whenever a door was opened you got the corner-shop style beep that could be heard anywhere in the house. So, we're all upstairs for one reason or another, and we hear the doo-doot of the door being opened. I'm at the top of the stairs and can see the front door is still closed, so it has to be the back door. I grabbed a large wooden pole I have for just such "requirements", rushed downstairs like Mel Gibson, and darted to the back door.

It's open, and there's someone in my kitchen. I'm about to whack this sod round the head, so I grab him. Just before I launched into extreme physical violence, I noticed he had Down's Syndrome and was absolutely terrified. Christ, I was about to batter this kid.

I put the pole down, and asked him what the hell he was doing. He'd got lost trying to find his mums. Wanted the next road along as it turned out. Clearly, not a criminal.

Our doors are locked now, lesson learned, but what if I had a gun and was a reactionary fool? I wonder how many lives are lost unnecessarily this way.

Icehuck
November 21st, 2009, 10:35 AM
Trespassers will be shot and survivors will be shot again. Take your spare gun and plant it in his hand. Claim he found your gun in the drawer when you caught him.

There is a television show called, "It Takes a Thief." They show how professional thieves break into homes and then show you how to secure your home. Shockingly most dogs are useless at protecting homes. Anyway, go get a gun.

The Real Dave
November 21st, 2009, 12:21 PM
CoD? Cash on Delivery? :D

Call of Duty :) (www.callofduty.com)


1 Word.

AK-47.


Thats what you a backup plan, reliable as carrying a large rock with you, not gonna break. You pull the trigger, and you KNOW that theres gonna be a bullet coming out the other end :)


It's open, and there's someone in my kitchen. I'm about to whack this sod round the head, so I grab him. Just before I launched into extreme physical violence, I noticed he had Down's Syndrome and was absolutely terrified. Christ, I was about to batter this kid.

Our doors are locked now, lesson learned, but what if I had a gun and was a reactionary fool? I wonder how many lives are lost unnecessarily this way.

That is a very good point. Thats the thing with gun ownership, not alot of people are fit to take the responsibility. Its a shoot first, ask questions later situation. However (though I may be wrong), military personal, especially more elite units, are trained to asses the situation first.

A seconds thought would make all the difference

jwbrase
November 21st, 2009, 01:18 PM
Our doors are locked now, lesson learned, but what if I had a gun and was a reactionary fool? I wonder how many lives are lost unnecessarily this way.

I think most people who own a gun would have their doors locked as a matter of course. Locked doors tell you that anybody inside either A) Has a key (in which case they belong there), B) Has been invited in (in which case you probably know that they're there), or C) Has committed the crime of breaking and entering, and probably intends to commit at least one other crime before leaving.

My family doesn't own a gun, but I was old enough for my parents to give me a key to our house, it was drilled into me until it was instinct that an external door is either in use, or locked.

Also, with a locked door, you can hear somebody coming in even without an alarm on the door. Either you hear the sound of a key in the lock, or you hear "knock-knock-knock. (Sound of door opening) Oh, Hi, come on in!", or you hear the sound of a rock going through a window or a door being kicked in.

Exodist
November 21st, 2009, 01:34 PM
I've been meaning to get a license and buy a gun. They've just made it even harder to get a license in Jersey not to long ago. I assume a Castle Law means if someone enters your house without permission you have the right to **** them up. Must be nice...

You dont need a handgun. Just get a 20gauge PUMP Shotgun. The reason I say this is:
1) The Pumping action produces a distinct sound that NO ONE wants to here in the middle of the night. The pumping action alone will send many would be burglars running in fear.
2) You can set the type of shots you wish to use. 1st shot can be rock salt, a really good attention getter and prob the only shot you will need. 2nd shot can be bird shot, a array of BB sized shots that spray out and can be very hard to miss with. At long distance will not kill (over 75 yards), but can be great to insure the perp is still running after the rock salt shot. 3rd should just be Buckshots, buckshot is a anti-personnel style ammo used by police and military. Also very easy to purchase legally by anyone over age of 18. Depending on where you live (city appartment / country side or subburb), you may can skip the 2nd bird shots and just go to buckshot.

Recommended weapon of choice by many is the Mossberg 500 (http://www.mossberg.com/products/default.asp?id=3) that comes in many models/gauges.

TBerk
November 21st, 2009, 01:39 PM
I don't own a gun, so that was out of the question.

Cascade

Yeah, my door was probably unlocked, I live in an area where this type of thing doesn't happen too often. I only lock the door If I go out. Extra security might not be a bad idea though.

Dude. It's not paranoid to always lock the door. You just do it all the time, it become second nature, part of the routine.


berk

Rambar
November 21st, 2009, 03:37 PM
I dont know yours, but my front door can only be opened from the outside if you insert the key. If you dont have the key, you can only knock and wait for someone inside to open it. And then you can lock it, preventing it from being open from the inside too :P

venator260
November 21st, 2009, 04:40 PM
I think he was talking about interior walls, and the safety of others in the house. This is definitely something that has to be considered with a shotgun. And birdshot is not really considered to be a defense-appropriate load.


I don't know that birdshot would penetrate even interior walls (I'm going to try and find 2 sheets of drywall to test this for my own curiosity). And I realize that a load of #4 or #6 shot wouldn't be the best home defense load. However, I assume that the gun knowledge on this board isn't extremely high, so I figured that's what people would have. I realize now that this may have been an incorrect assumption.

Hallvor
November 21st, 2009, 06:17 PM
I think you did the right thing. He may have had a concealed weapon, and after all he listened to you and left. Fighting someone is always the last resort.

The best way to protect your home is quick access to a loaded weapon. If you can`t reach it from where you stand, it is too far away. :)

Firestem4
November 21st, 2009, 07:27 PM
Reminds me of a story I heard about the police here in the US. It went something like this:

A man looks out the window of his home to see a robber breaking into his shed. He calls the police and reports the crime in action. They advise him to lock his doors and they'll send an officer right away. 1/2 hour goes by and the guy has cleared out half of the tools in the shed. Still no police. He calls the police again and is advised that all officers are occupied at the moment and will be there whenever possible.

By now, the guy has nearly stolen all of the valuable property from the shed, and the home owner is rather irate that the police don't care. So he calls the police back and tells them not to bother coming anymore. The dispatcher asks why, and the home owner says, "because I shot him dead. Now I can put all of my stuff back, and hangs up." Within a couple minutes a whole bunch of police show up, catch the robber, discover no one is dead, and arrest the home owner for making a false report.

Though it could be true,I heard this one years ago and it was generally on Joke websites. Except the arrest part was usually omitted. However all things considered this type of reaction is not surprising.

tjwoosta
November 21st, 2009, 07:49 PM
Boy am I glad I don't live in America. No offence, but some very interesting comments in this thread that rather worry me.

A few years ago we had an alarm fitted so that whenever a door was opened you got the corner-shop style beep that could be heard anywhere in the house. So, we're all upstairs for one reason or another, and we hear the doo-doot of the door being opened. I'm at the top of the stairs and can see the front door is still closed, so it has to be the back door. I grabbed a large wooden pole I have for just such "requirements", rushed downstairs like Mel Gibson, and darted to the back door.

It's open, and there's someone in my kitchen. I'm about to whack this sod round the head, so I grab him. Just before I launched into extreme physical violence, I noticed he had Down's Syndrome and was absolutely terrified. Christ, I was about to batter this kid.

I put the pole down, and asked him what the hell he was doing. He'd got lost trying to find his mums. Wanted the next road along as it turned out. Clearly, not a criminal.

Our doors are locked now, lesson learned, but what if I had a gun and was a reactionary fool? I wonder how many lives are lost unnecessarily this way.

The same thing that stopped you from whacking him with the wooden pole would have stopped you from shooting. Are you saying you would just blindly pull the trigger without first knowing what/who your shooting? That would just be bad practice, and any gun safety training would teach one not to do this. If it did happen it would be utter stupidity and you would deserve the murder charges.

Warpnow
November 21st, 2009, 08:02 PM
The same thing that stopped you from whacking him with the wooden pole would have stopped you from shooting. Are you saying you would just blindly pull the trigger without first knowing what/who your shooting? That would just be bad practice, and any gun safety training would teach one not to do this. If it did happen it would be utter stupidity and you would deserve the murder charges.

From the responses in this thread, seems like a fair few would.

tjwoosta
November 21st, 2009, 08:04 PM
I think he was talking about interior walls, and the safety of others in the house. This is definitely something that has to be considered with a shotgun. And birdshot is not really considered to be a defense-appropriate load.

I disagree, bird shot may not be appropriate if your trying to kill somebody, but it would certainly do for defense. If you get blasted with bird shot your definitely not going anywhere fast, assuming it doesnt kill you. With that said I'm fairly certain bird shot will indeed penetrate drywall. I shoot 1/4" plywood all the time for target practice and bird shot penetrates that sometimes from a good 10 - 15 yards.

As I mentioned before pepper shot, rubber shot, and bean bag shot are great for home defense. They are far less likely to kill, but still very likely to stop an intruder. They also wont go through walls as easily.

tjwoosta
November 21st, 2009, 08:08 PM
From the responses in this thread, seems like a fair few would.

I think many of the responses in this thread are probably teens who play too many video games and have never actually even shot a real gun ;)

BigSilly
November 21st, 2009, 08:13 PM
The same thing that stopped you from whacking him with the wooden pole would have stopped you from shooting. Are you saying you would just blindly pull the trigger without first knowing what/who your shooting?

No, I'm saying that I wonder how many times that it does happen. Many people in this very thread seem to be adopting a shoot first, ask questions later approach.

tjwoosta
November 21st, 2009, 08:29 PM
Fair enough, I guess thats what video games do to teens. I'm positive most if not all of those kind of responses are from people who have never even shot a real gun, never mind killed anything with one.

Anyone who hunts has to take hunters safety training and knows better. Anyone who has a license for a gun also has to take gun safety training so they know better as well.

alphaniner
November 21st, 2009, 08:57 PM
No, I'm saying that I wonder how many times that it does happen. Many people in this very thread seem to be adopting a shoot first, ask questions later approach.

There's no doubt that it happens. But I'm pretty familiar with the statistics and I don't think it happens often. Statistics about non-fatal injuries seem to be non-existent, but for deaths I'm pretty sure such a thing falls into the accidental category. And accidental shootings accounted for 2% of gun deaths in the US in 2006*

Plus, I think if the numbers were damning they would be a centerpiece of anti-gun campaigns, and this just isn't the case. The only number that should give anyone pause is the suicide percentage. More than half of gun deaths in the US are suicides.*

* 2009 report by the National Center for Injury Prevention and Control, a division of the CDC.

frenchn00b
November 21st, 2009, 09:19 PM
The minute I heard my dog going crazy, I would have picked up my shotgun. I'd never use the thing on anyone who didn't display a clear intent to do harm; the mere sight of a gun can be enough to scare off most morons.

or been killed, if he got scared or crazy

All weapons bring destruction, loaded or not. Peace

Exodist
November 21st, 2009, 09:31 PM
I think many of the responses in this thread are probably teens who play too many video games and have never actually even shot a real gun ;)

Actually I am 31 year old ex-military veteran. That being said its the first day of Deer season here in Mississippi and I just came home for lunch and going back into the woods here soon. :-)

BTW, I still like blasting them with salt shot.

If the person is lost or happens to walk into the wrong house (unlikely but possible), cocking a pump shot gun infront of them and pointing it at them will correct any issues before someone is hurt.

If they have intent of robbing or hurting you and the above doesnt work, the salt will inflict more pain then damage and immobilize most anyone unless they are on some strong illegal drugs (i.e Meth or Coke).

If the salt doesnt stop them, then your life is honestly in danger. Fraking blow them away with buckshots and tell the police to send the corner. Just make sure the dead bodie is in fact in your house and facing you.

TuckLive
November 22nd, 2009, 11:19 AM
Boy am I glad I don't live in America. No offence, but some very interesting comments in this thread that rather worry me.

A few years ago we had an alarm fitted so that whenever a door was opened you got the corner-shop style beep that could be heard anywhere in the house. So, we're all upstairs for one reason or another, and we hear the doo-doot of the door being opened. I'm at the top of the stairs and can see the front door is still closed, so it has to be the back door. I grabbed a large wooden pole I have for just such "requirements", rushed downstairs like Mel Gibson, and darted to the back door.

It's open, and there's someone in my kitchen. I'm about to whack this sod round the head, so I grab him. Just before I launched into extreme physical violence, I noticed he had Down's Syndrome and was absolutely terrified. Christ, I was about to batter this kid.

I put the pole down, and asked him what the hell he was doing. He'd got lost trying to find his mums. Wanted the next road along as it turned out. Clearly, not a criminal.

Our doors are locked now, lesson learned, but what if I had a gun and was a reactionary fool? I wonder how many lives are lost unnecessarily this way.

While some comments here have been bold I would hope people would think one second when they confront an intruder in their house just in case of a lost person (special needs). The Castle Law I said we have does not give you permission to blindly shoot anybody in your house, but you do not have to retreat to a corner of the house if you fear for your or your family's life.

HappinessNow
November 22nd, 2009, 11:29 AM
Edit: never-mind.

Ji Ruo
November 22nd, 2009, 11:46 AM
I was pretty shocked by some of the comments on this thread. Is anything this guy could have walked away with worth shooting him for? I think the situation worked out fine under the circumstances - he walked away and so did you, if you'd tried to attack or restrain him without needing to it could have been much worse.

Might be an idea to lock your door from now on.

Xbehave
November 22nd, 2009, 12:33 PM
Actually I am 31 year old ex-military veteran. That being said its the first day of Deer season here in Mississippi and I just came home for lunch and going back into the woods here soon. :-)

...

If the salt doesnt stop them, then your life is honestly in danger. Fraking blow them away with buckshots and tell the police to send the corner. Just make sure the dead bodie is in fact in your house and facing you.
I've noticed a high correlation between people who seam to know about guns, suggesting pretty much that and an even higher one where those that say "if somebody is in my house, I'll aim for the head and let the coroner sort out the mess" and those that seam to not have a clue. Perhaps it's just observational bias because that's what i would do, but the most informative comments in this thread are comming from you and alphaniner so i think there is more to it.

jwbrase
November 22nd, 2009, 12:55 PM
Actually I am 31 year old ex-military veteran. That being said its the first day of Deer season here in Mississippi and I just came home for lunch and going back into the woods here soon. :-)

BTW, I still like blasting them with salt shot.

If the person is lost or happens to walk into the wrong house (unlikely but possible), cocking a pump shot gun infront of them and pointing it at them will correct any issues before someone is hurt.

And quite possibly traumatize them quite a bit. I wouldn't want to have pointed a gun at this special needs guy, but locked doors should take care of that.



If they have intent of robbing or hurting you and the above doesnt work, the salt will inflict more pain then damage and immobilize most anyone unless they are on some strong illegal drugs (i.e Meth or Coke).

If the salt doesnt stop them, then your life is honestly in danger. Fraking blow them away with buckshots and tell the police to send the corner. Just make sure the dead bodie is in fact in your house and facing you.

Now, I'm not a gun user myself, but I'm not sure about starting with salt shot and ending with buckshot. You'd know better than I would: could you really get off two shots quickly enough for the second one to matter? If not, either you should be ready for whatever happens if the salt shot doesn't work, or you should use buckshot and not fire unless you're ready to kill.

Sin@Sin-Sacrifice
November 22nd, 2009, 01:09 PM
The guy would bleed more than scream... I may be put in jail at least for a night if someone was to just walk into my home. Don't get me wrong... I wouldn't kill the guy but he certainly would never ever ever think about walking into a place he knows nothing about. Especially since I have no idea what he's trying to do with my family. Shoot first and ask questions later is right.

infestor
November 22nd, 2009, 03:15 PM
can you buy plastic bullets in US? that would be quite effective.

tjwoosta
November 22nd, 2009, 08:04 PM
Sure you can, we have been talking about less lethal rounds on the previous pages. For bullets, like rifle ammo and handgun ammo, you can get plastic or rubber bullets. For shotgun shells you can get rubber shot, cayenne pepper shot, salt shot, and bean bag shot. There are probably a bunch of other less lethal rounds that I'm just not familiar with.

Like mentioned on previous pages, in most situations just the mere sight of the gun would probably be enough to ward off most intruders. If not getting shot with something like pepper shot or salt shot surely will.

Exodist
November 22nd, 2009, 09:11 PM
I was pretty shocked by some of the comments on this thread. Is anything this guy could have walked away with worth shooting him for? I think the situation worked out fine under the circumstances - he walked away and so did you, if you'd tried to attack or restrain him without needing to it could have been much worse.
Two things..
- Here in the US, people tend to be more head-strong or completely stubborn. If someone walks into your house to rob you and you just run them off, they will 99% of the time just go down the street to someone else they think is not at home and try it again. This time it could be an elderly person that the perp will actually hurt or even your parents. How would you feel if a robber you ran off by just saying "go away" ran down the street and entered your parents house and took their life? This is a serious thought! There are alot of druggies in the USA and they dont always listen to reason or make good decisions. Pumping little shot into his or her chest and let the cops take them down town were they cant do more harm or make a even worse discision.
- You should never try to physically handle a robber or anyone who breaks into your home. You never know what frame of mind they are in or what drugs they can be on. I have seen in many cases where it has taken 5 or 6 cops, (large, stronge men) to handle a guy half their size becuase the perp was on drugs like Meth. Drugs like that can make the user not feel much or any pain and make that users adrinalin skyrocket increasing his or her strength while heavily imparing proper judgement. Just stay away..


Might be an idea to lock your door from now on.This I agree so much with, also depending on the crime in your area a security system could be a good idea.

TBerk
November 22nd, 2009, 10:42 PM
For those of us that live in places where owning a gun isn't legal (UK) I'd say ask him who the hell he is and let's see his ID.

If he hasn't got any, then get out otherwise I set the dog on him.

Waving a gun in his face when he hasn't demonstrated any violence seems a bit harsh. The laws on defending your own property are pretty sketchy here and there have been cases where people who come into your home uninvited have been able to sue when you've hit them with something or caused them distress in some way. It's ridiculous but it happens unfortunately.

I don't think everyone being allowed to own a gun is the answer though... we have enough problems with knives here.



We have guns over here (USA), some say too many. I say we aren't teaching proper use and accountability; no mandatory care and feeding training to be found. (stupid of us).

That said, most knowledgeable people I trust say you don't "wave the gun around...", if it comes out you are intent on putting steel on target and you need to be sure about that, at least as sure as circumstances allow.

Thats the definite part, the grey area is trying to determine what some unwelcome 'visitor' is doing in your house.

The operative phrase is "... and then I feared for my life, so...". There are rules, if someone enters without a hail nor an invitation they should be prepared for the worse.

I'm a little older now and I don't relish the caveman heritage we all harbor much anymore, yet I still reserve the right to defense of myself, and others.


berk
(I got a kick out of "you missed an opportunity to exhibit true Ubuntu spirit.." )

Exodist
November 23rd, 2009, 12:45 PM
We have guns over here (USA), some say too many. I say we aren't teaching proper use and accountability; no mandatory care and feeding training to be found. (stupid of us).

Many states do still teach Hunters Safety courses which are required before someone can obtain a hunting license. Unfortunately that just for getting a hunting license and not a gun permit.
Sadly I noticed this year that they have since moved the Hunters Safety course out of the schools where I had originally took the classes.
Also I am not sure training everyone that wishes the get a gun will help. Most gun violence is caused by gang violence that comprises of members who never would have bothered to finish school or even take a safety course. They also primarily get their guns illegally from others who circulate stolen weapons anyway. So it still wouldnt help.

What I do think would help is increasing the punishment of individuals who commit a crime with a firearm. The average robbery sentence is about 7 1/2 years here in the US with 2 years of that can be paroled if the individual is released early on good behavior.
I say lets double that for any crime committed with a firearm! So lets make that sentence 15 years without chance of parole! When people start understanding that their sentence can get doubled without a chance of parole, crimes committed with a firearm will drop. Thats something I would bet on..

-Exo

t0p
November 23rd, 2009, 01:21 PM
That's liberalism for you.

What you on about, liberalism? The law you're commenting on (about "Beware of the dog" signs in the UK) is the same law that banned ownership of American Pitbull Terriers. That's not liberal!

All those people who've said that they'd pull a gun and shoot an intruder: I'd be interested to know how many of you have been trained in gun combat? Cos shooting a man-shaped target and shooting an actual man are 2 very different propostions. Especially if the man is rushing towards you and it's dark and the adrenalin's pumping and your hands are shaking and...

Don't get me wrong: if I lived in the USA, I'd probably keep a gun for home defense. But I'd make sure I knew what I was about. Earlier in this thread, I posted that lots of folk get shot with their own weapons, and a couple of people asked me to cite my sources. Well, therre are plenty of sources out there, a quick google will turn up lots of news reports of homeowners getting shot with their own weapons by burglars. There are also lots of reports of homeowners successfully shooting intruders; but that doesn't make what I've said untrue.

Any soldier with combat experience will tell you there's a big difference between shooting targets on the range and shooting people. Especially hostile people. I'm not saying it's wrong to use guns to protect your family and home. I'm saying: Be careful!!

Hallvor
November 23rd, 2009, 02:20 PM
t0p: I read statistics about this some while ago, and yes, it is true that it is statistically more likely that you or someone else in your household will die by your own weapon, than you shooting and killing an intruder – most advocates of gun control leave out the fact that some 98 percent of all intruders will get the hell away if a loaded weapon is pointed at their heads. It is hardly ever necessary to actually pull the trigger. If he still doesn`t leave, you are probably dead without a gun anyway.

Small_Nuke
November 23rd, 2009, 04:12 PM
I would have had my door locked in the first place. Seriously wtf dude, did you not expect someone to even try to come in?

My response would have been to scare him off or defend yourself with force, but you didn't even bother locking the front door so you should have just let him steal your stuff *facepalm*

Dragonbite
November 23rd, 2009, 04:24 PM
I would have had my door locked in the first place. Seriously wtf dude, did you not expect someone to even try to come in?

My response would have been to scare him off or defend yourself with force, but you didn't even bother locking the front door so you should have just let him steal your stuff *facepalm*

We're a little more aware after the number of child abductions that have been in the news where the perp says that it was easy because the door was unlocked.

Stan_1936
November 23rd, 2009, 04:46 PM
....im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police....

How did he get into your house that close to you without making a sound?

Unless, you've just made up this story.

note32
November 23rd, 2009, 04:50 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

LOL:lolflag:

PostChache
November 23rd, 2009, 05:11 PM
I would have done the same thing, except I would have grabbed a gun to confront him xD! Not to really shoot up but no one wants to be shot so the gun being there would have made sure he didn't do anything risky. I then would have gone to call the police because why would this guy do that? I would be afraid he would return in a later time if the police didn't come.

Dragonbite
November 23rd, 2009, 05:29 PM
I would have done the same thing, except I would have grabbed a gun to confront him xD! Not to really shoot up but no one wants to be shot so the gun being there would have made sure he didn't do anything risky. I then would have gone to call the police because why would this guy do that? I would be afraid he would return in a later time if the police didn't come.

Don't pick up a gun and use it as a deterrent unless you are ready to pull that trigger. Otherwise, you are effectively holding it out, handing it to them if they are brave enough to take it.

Considering he brashly walked into the house, that could be a risky gamble.

PostChache
November 23rd, 2009, 05:38 PM
Don't pick up a gun and use it as a deterrent unless you are ready to pull that trigger. Otherwise, you are effectively holding it out, handing it to them if they are brave enough to take it.

Considering he brashly walked into the house, that could be a risky gamble.

Well I would hope anyone who would walk out with a gun would know how to handle it and themselves in a way that would keep the gun in their possession.

dasunst3r
November 23rd, 2009, 05:39 PM
If the guy stepped into your house, you have the right to shoot to kill for self-defense (in America, at least). It is often referred to as the "Castle law," which you can find more information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_law

I would much prefer to not kill anybody, so I would probably fire a warning shot (with a blank) first.

Dragonbite
November 23rd, 2009, 05:45 PM
Well I would hope anyone who would walk out with a gun would know how to handle it and themselves in a way that would keep the gun in their possession.

Owning and gun, and being able to hold onto it are two different issues.

Nervous person with a gun and no hand-to-hand experience vs an experienced martial artist is in trouble.

On the other hand, though, if YOU are the experienced martial artist then that means YOU may be able to disarm some robber.

That's an advantage of martial arts.. you have a chance to turn around and use the opponent's weapon against them. It's a lot harder for them to take your fists and use them against yourself.

May be be funny to watch, but I think it would be pretty darn hard to do.

Paqman
November 23rd, 2009, 05:49 PM
My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.


Depends on what your local laws are about the right to use violence in defence of your home. Generally speaking, in most places you can use force to eject someone from your property (usually moreso after dark) but you might find yourself liable to prosecution if you didn't challenge them verbally first.

Bottom line, you got the guy out of your house without getting hurt, and without risking breaking the law yourself. You got it 100% right.

If you're concerned about a repeat occurance, talk to your local cops about it. They can give you advise on what you should and shouldn't do to deal with intruders.

ice60
November 23rd, 2009, 05:52 PM
i'd have farted on his head :D

PostChache
November 23rd, 2009, 06:42 PM
Owning and gun, and being able to hold onto it are two different issues.

Nervous person with a gun and no hand-to-hand experience vs an experienced martial artist is in trouble.

On the other hand, though, if YOU are the experienced martial artist then that means YOU may be able to disarm some robber.

That's an advantage of martial arts.. you have a chance to turn around and use the opponent's weapon against them. It's a lot harder for them to take your fists and use them against yourself.

May be be funny to watch, but I think it would be pretty darn hard to do.

Well I think a nervous person would be more likely to shoot the guy for doing something sketchy even if it didn't seem that threating. But now that you brought up Martial Arts... what if they both knew martial arts O.O And they were just having this big Martial Arts Fight in the middle of the night, it would be like something from a movie.

Exodist
November 23rd, 2009, 07:58 PM
Dragonbite has made many many valuable post in regards to this topic.

I would like to piggy back on the state Db made about not pulling a gun on the intruder unless you are ready to pull the trigger.

He is exactly correct!

This is one reason many of us recommend no lethal shots like Salt Shot (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shotgun#Less_Lethal_rounds.2C_for_riot_and_animal_ control).
Your less likely to get to scared to shoot the target if you know they will survive.
But you should never pull any weapon on anyone unless you are 100% sure it is YOUR intent to do bodily harm to the person. Many people can be just as easily traumatize them self by shooting a person. I can not or would say what anyone should or should not do. This is something the home owner should have to make up them self. I can say what I will do and I know that many home burglars these days are simply after something to sell for drug money. So if you are one of those many who can not live with shooting someone, a home security system like Broadview Security (http://www.broadviewsecurity.com/) can be a much better option.

Exodist
November 23rd, 2009, 08:01 PM
Well I think a nervous person would be more likely to shoot the guy for doing something sketchy even if it didn't seem that threating. But now that you brought up Martial Arts... what if they both knew martial arts O.O And they were just having this big Martial Arts Fight in the middle of the night, it would be like something from a movie.
Most nervous people just break down and cry.
Most violent physical encounters are over in 8 to 10 secs.

Dale61
November 24th, 2009, 02:09 PM
A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy

If someone walked into my house like that, my dogs would also go crazy as to them, it would be a feeding frenzy.

If the cops wanted any DNA, they could just pick up tomorrows dog poop.

I call it my 'Brown-&-Tan' insurance policy.

Dragonbite
November 24th, 2009, 02:24 PM
Y'know... the title "Guy walks into my house." sounds like the beginning of a bad joke.

Even moreso if it were a bar he walked into instead of (your) house!

Gwasanaethau
November 24th, 2009, 02:51 PM
Get out your camera phone, snap a pic, ask him to leave and call 911. This way he knows you have info on his identity, and calling 911 means they have a trace on the cell call, know there is trouble, and have a link to the phone. Never approach or confront him. In close proximity guns are not as effective as people would like to believe, unless you are trying to kill. Otherwise they are only a threat. Remember, a glock will shoot you just as fast as someone else, and your ability to hit an attacking target at close range is not that great. There was as study where they gave a handful of college students paint ball pistols, sat them in a class KNOWING and intruder was going to come in shooting, and only one person got shots off, and those shots missed. Stay away from the intruder, if he makes a move tword you, go to a room with a window, close lock and bar the door. No matter how well trained you are at fighting, you don't know what the other person's level of training is, and you don't know what equipment he has to work with. On the other hand, you have a picture, and law enforcement on your side, and on their way.


P.S. My view on guns here comes from the fact that I grew up with guns, am very proficient with guns, believe in gun ownership. I do not own any guns because I have no use for them, and I have children in the house.

Believe it or not, taking pictures of people without their consent is illegal in London:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036728/Photographing-thugs-assault-police-tell-householder-snapping-proof-anti-social-behaviour.html

It's also illegal to take pictures of police officers, soldiers, famous buildings, buses (yes, those nice big shiny red ones), trains, train stations, etc. One of the reasons why I emigrated…

Dale61
November 24th, 2009, 03:00 PM
its the first day of Deer season here in Mississippi and I just came home for lunch and going back into the woods here soon. :-)

Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside shooting a defenceless animal? I bet it would be a different story if the deer started shooting back!

There is a saying: 'Guns don't kill people - psycho mofo's who own guns kill people!'

Dale61
November 24th, 2009, 03:03 PM
Believe it or not, taking pictures of people without their consent is illegal in London:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036728/Photographing-thugs-assault-police-tell-householder-snapping-proof-anti-social-behaviour.html

It's also illegal to take pictures of police officers, soldiers, famous buildings, buses (yes, those nice big shiny red ones), trains, train stations, etc. One of the reasons why I emigrated…

And yet, here in Australia, we see TV programs highlighting the fact that most UK cities have CC cameras on every light post! Are you saying the 'watchers' are breaking the law?

alphaniner
November 24th, 2009, 03:14 PM
And yet, here in Australia, we see TV programs highlighting the fact that most UK cities have CC cameras on every light post! Are you saying the 'watchers' are breaking the law?

I'm American, but I remember hearing about a PR campaign for the British 'Surveillance State' that didn't go over too well. It involved posters showing literally 'eyes in the sky':

http://www.motherjones.com/files/images/Blog_Watchful_Eyes_0.jpg

RiceMonster
November 24th, 2009, 03:16 PM
moreso if it were a bar he walked into instead of (your) house!

Yeah, ouch!

Dragonbite
November 24th, 2009, 03:44 PM
When we bought our first house, we knew that it wasn't too far from a city with a not-so-great reputation. We figured we would see how it goes and if we are not comfortable we would move after a couple years, before our daughter started school.

Right after we moved into our house, we started getting a lot of phone calls from "home security" companies. While I was on the phone with one, I watched a police car driving down the street and started wondering how safe was this neighborhood!

Actually, the police car drive down our street a couple times a day usually.

Ends up, the police car we kept seeing was because he lived down the street and he was going home for lunch.

Now we've found out we have 4-5 police/sheriff/retired-cops living on our street alone! Plus a few more just around the corner and at couple with kids in our kid's classes.

Xbehave
November 24th, 2009, 04:32 PM
Believe it or not, taking pictures of people without their consent is illegal in London:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036728/Photographing-thugs-assault-police-tell-householder-snapping-proof-anti-social-behaviour.html

It's also illegal to take pictures of police officers, soldiers, famous buildings, buses (yes, those nice big shiny red ones), trains, train stations, etc. One of the reasons why I emigrated…
LOL believing anything the mail reads is enough to make anybody want to emigrate fortunately the story is pretty much a non story about what a not-real police officer said. While there are silly laws they aim to protect peoples privacy and would not apply to an intruder in your house.

Fortunately most of the CCTV reporting is sensationalist tripe that often implies the state has huge numbers of CCTV cameras by using numbers that include shops private security cameras. Yes we do have CCTV, yes it is mostly useless, but not the government isn't tracking your every move (for starters they are far too incompetent and the huge number of camera makes anything but using CCTV for collecting evidence after a crime very tricky)

Warpnow
November 24th, 2009, 07:09 PM
If the guy stepped into your house, you have the right to shoot to kill for self-defense (in America, at least). It is often referred to as the "Castle law," which you can find more information here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_law

I would much prefer to not kill anybody, so I would probably fire a warning shot (with a blank) first.

First. Less than half of states have a castle doctrine, which you'd know if you read your own link...

Secondly, it does not allow you shoot someone for trespassing on your property...

First, they have to be doing so illegally and usually with force. Without forcible entry walking onto someone's property is not stricly illegal. If they break a window, door, ect, then its forcible. Walking into an unlocked door does not meet the castle doctrine's requirements.

Second, you have to have a reasonable belief that they are there to commit a crime. Their mere presence is not enough. You have to have evidence of illegal activitiy. If they are trying to steal your property, trying to attack you, assault you, ect. You can't just shoot someone for coming onto your property without the use of force.

You can mark your property no trepassing, and it would be illegal, but you'd still have to prove an intent to commit a crime. You can't just shoot a group of kids who climbed your fence, and you can't just shoot someone without asking questions who isn't doing something illegal.

tjwoosta
November 24th, 2009, 09:15 PM
Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside shooting a defenceless animal? I bet it would be a different story if the deer started shooting back!

There is a saying: 'Guns don't kill people - psycho mofo's who own guns kill people!'

Actually it makes me a bit warm and fuzzy inside when I eat that delicous meat ;) It's no worse then leading a group of defenseless cows who've been bred in captivity into the slaughter house. At least while hunting the animals stand a chance.

Gwasanaethau
November 25th, 2009, 04:37 AM
I'm American, but I remember hearing about a PR campaign for the British 'Surveillance State' that didn't go over too well. It involved posters showing literally 'eyes in the sky':

[Image removed]

I remember that one. Now that you mention it, that is very unsettling! I was much younger when that campaign was in action, and I don't think I quite appreciated what it meant!


And yet, here in Australia, we see TV programs highlighting the fact that most UK cities have CC cameras on every light post! Are you saying the 'watchers' are breaking the law?

That's exactly the ridiculousness of the situation! I actually saw a video on that whilst trying to find the article I posted. Let's see if I can find it in my cache…

Ah, here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKl2sEN4yNM (I appreciate it's a YouTube video, but there are examples of this strewn all over the Internet).


LOL believing anything the mail reads is enough to make anybody want to emigrate fortunately the story is pretty much a non story about what a not-real police officer said. While there are silly laws they aim to protect peoples privacy and would not apply to an intruder in your house.…

Touchée! Though I originally saw it on BBC London, and this was the only reference I could find that wasn't from a Blog or other personal account.

I guess I should point out at this stage that I am fully in support of defending oneself and one's property in case of burglary, assault, etc. I was just reading through posts about different laws in different US states and thought I'd throw that in!

Take care, now!

Gwas-.http://ubuntuforums.org/images/icons/icon12.gif

lisati
November 25th, 2009, 04:53 AM
A little ditty (http://www.lyricsmode.com/lyrics/i/inner_circle/bad_boys.html) comes to mind.

Exodist
November 25th, 2009, 05:18 AM
Does it make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside shooting a defenceless animal? I bet it would be a different story if the deer started shooting back!

There is a saying: 'Guns don't kill people - psycho mofo's who own guns kill people!'
LMAO.. Thanks for th laugh.. hehe

If the deer started shooting back I would crap myself..
But nah it doesnt bother me, my main reason for out hunting isnt for a trophy. Its to put food in my freezer to eat. :-)

MasterNetra
November 25th, 2009, 05:22 AM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

Shotgun pure and simple. Have him get down on the ground slowly and put his hand on his head while you call the police if he trys anything shoot first ask questions later, he has no right to just walk into your house.

ciborium
November 25th, 2009, 05:43 AM
why the law is 180 degree different inside different states in the US?
what if the owner is in toronto and the intruder is from new jersy?

It's called federalism, and it's a good thing.

I really don't care what the laws are in New Jersey, California, Canada, the United Kingdom, etc. unless I GO THERE.

I want to be able to affect the laws in Kentucky.

It's far easier to get laws passed or repealed locally than nationally. Once DC takes your rights away, you can forget ever getting them back!

(Since when was Toronto in the US?)

Hallvor
November 25th, 2009, 12:27 PM
Shotgun pure and simple. Have him get down on the ground slowly and put his hand on his head while you call the police if he trys anything shoot first ask questions later, he has no right to just walk into your house.

I would love to have one of these. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atchisson_Assault_Shotgun

http://hamiltonandtroup.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/us20marine20firing20aa-1220full-auto20shotgun2028aa1220machine20shotgun29.jpg
Fully automatic assault shotgun with a 32 round drum magazine. 350 rounds per minute.

Is the full auto version for sale for everyone in the US? Or is it restricted to law enforcement/military?

Paqman
November 25th, 2009, 12:43 PM
You can't just shoot someone for coming onto your property without the use of force.


+1

And why the hell would you want to? Gunplay in my own home is not anything i'd ever want to engage in.

The idea of semi-skilled firearms handlers engaging in short-range impromptu gunfights, very likely at night, against an unknown number assailants, with family members and innocent people in the same building or close by is not a good idea. Especially if you're just protecting a TV.

I'm an ex-military armourer, so i'm by no means anti-gun. But anybody who would willingly put themselves at risk of engaging in the above is, IMO, a moron. It's all about de-escalating potentially dangerous situations, and if violence does become necessary, using a proportionate response.

t0p
November 25th, 2009, 01:11 PM
Believe it or not, taking pictures of people without their consent is illegal in London:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1036728/Photographing-thugs-assault-police-tell-householder-snapping-proof-anti-social-behaviour.html


Not necessarily true. You have the right to take photographs of anyone you like, so long as you're not on someone else's property.
This is not an absolute right - if you're taking the photo with the intention of publishing it, the Press Complaints Commission may rule that it's a breach of privacy, like in this case (http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/news/Photographers_pic_breached_privacy_code_says_watch dog_news_292153.html). But that kind of thing is dealt with on a case-by-case basis. There is no blanket rule that you can't take photos of people without their permission.



It's also illegal to take pictures of police officers, soldiers, famous buildings, buses (yes, those nice big shiny red ones), trains, train stations, etc. One of the reasons why I emigrated…

Also untrue. Such photos are banned only if the police have reasonable suspicion that the pictures are being taken to be of use to a terrorist. And pressure from photographic organizations has forced the police to state openly that the law will not be used to harrass photographers not suspected of connection to terrorists.

There have been cases of private security guards trying to tell photographers that certain types of photography are "banned". For instance, security at the London Olympics building site are fond of telling snappers that they can't take pictures of the site. But that's just groundless harrassment by private group. There have also been cases of police officers overstepping their powers and trying to make out some photography is illegal - as is often documented by the excellent Amateur Photographer (http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk) magazine. But that is not the law! If you stand on the public road or footpath, or on your own property, you can photograph just about anything you like (as long as it's not top secret documents or the latest stealth fighter or something).

Parroting ill-informed stories about (incorrect) "laws" serve only to breed a climate of paranoia. It is important that the truth is told about such things, so no one will be fooled when security guards or over-zealous cops try to con photographers that their activities are banned. The truth shall set you free!

t0p
November 25th, 2009, 01:28 PM
I really don't care what the laws are in New Jersey, California, Canada, the United Kingdom, etc. unless I GO THERE.

I want to be able to affect the laws in Kentucky.


Of course. But it certainly is useful to know what laws are like in other jurisdictions. For instance, in the USA, state legislators often look at how laws are working in other states to help them decide wheher to introduce that law themselves. Also, I've been told that sometimes the government try to get states to all adopt a law rather than try to introduce it federally. I read something on this forum about states introducing a law to ban smoking in a car with children: something the federal govt would probably like to introduce nation-wide, but figure it'll be easier to get state legislatures to do it one at a time.

Also, sometimes it's good to know what the law says in other countries just so you can say "Thank God I don't live there!" Look at the crazy gun-control we have in the UK! I bet that makes you happy to be a Yank!!! :)

Gwasanaethau
November 25th, 2009, 01:48 PM
…Parroting ill-informed stories about (incorrect) "laws" serve only to breed a climate of paranoia. It is important that the truth is told about such things, so no one will be fooled when security guards or over-zealous cops try to con photographers that their activities are banned. The truth shall set you free!

I stand corrected, my apologies! :D Now that you mention it, I have only heard that via hear-say – maybe I should do a bit more research into these things rather than just believing what I hear. As a scientist, I'm ashamed! :oops:

mztriz
November 25th, 2009, 01:50 PM
I don't know, I'm conflicted about it.

What you did was certainly effective and caused the least amount of harm/drama for yourself which is always good. You were able to just rush him out the door before anything could happen. I probably would have done the something myself.

However, the guy got away and possibly tried and succeed on your neighbors house or another house down the block. If you had injured him he might think twice before he tries it again, but then you might also have some serious injuries yourself.

hambone79
November 25th, 2009, 02:32 PM
So, im at work and I tell my coworkers this story.

I work nights so im at home aroun 2 pm just kind of resting. This guy starts knocking on my door. At first I ignore it since I wasn't expecting anyone, but hes persistent and it gets to the point where I go to see who it is. When I arrive at the front door he's already walking away, so i forget about him. I go back upstairs and check my email. A few minutes later my dog starts going crazy and this guy walks into view (to get to where I was he had to walk up the stairs and down my hall). I get up and confront him and ask him who he is. He says he's Ryan from Verizon and wants to talk about equipment. He's in a brown hoodie with no Verizon logos at all. So even before I notice his hoodie I knew he was giving me a ******** story, and anyways what kind of guy from a company would walk right into someones house. Basically I tell him to get the **** out of my house and I run him out. I call the police.

My coworkers thought instead of asking who he was I shouldve restrained him somehow or hit him even before saying anything to him.

So I ask you, what would you have done in this situation. The guy was very calm and could have been hiding a weapon. He was about 5' 10" and fairly thin and I'm a fairly big guy (although what size you are doesn't mean he can't fight) Do you attack him and take the chance that he wont fight back possibly with a weapon (in some situations even if the guy is in your house unwelcome, if you assault him he can press charges, go New Jersey!) or do you first at least try to scare him away and have him leave?

If it had happened in my house (especially if I was in my home office) they guy would have been staring down the barrel of a Sig Sauer .45 automatic. Luckily I live in Georgia...if you feel your life is threatened and you "Stand your ground", you are fully within your right to use deadly force. This extends beyond your personal property as well. If you have a permit to carry concealed (which I do) and you are outside of your property in a location where it is legal to carry, you can use deadly force if you meet those two requirements (i.e. feel your life is threatened, and you stand your ground).