What drives you to free software?... what about proprietary, pushed you to GNU/Lin?

[youbuntu]

Hello.

I have been a fan of Richard Stallman for a few years now, although I know a great deal of people find him obsessive and pedantic, I must say that he is a VERY intelligent & kind man, and wants the best for humanity, based on his extremely open and honest objectives.

I just wanted to hear what the Ubuntu community members have to say about proprietary software, and why they steer away from using it. I know the obvious reasons, but I am a great debater (I hope :D) and I love to know the opinions of others, and what drives them.

Please, do NOT flame on my thread, and by flaming I mean including pointless and derogatory comments which would knowingly cause an uproar - this thread is simply for you lovely people to express your views about why free software & GNU/Linux is such a wonderfully liberating concept - it makes me VERY happy to care and share, I must say.

Growth in technology can only be realised by the sharing, and participating in increasing our community strength, persuading (not by force or bullying) others to give free software & GNU/Linux a try, even if just for a few hours or days, to see what they CAN do, and take their focus away from what they may miss, NOT by misdirection or deception, but by suggesting viable, realistic alternatives.

I am DETERMINED to rid myself of Mac OS X, eventually. I have become overly dependant on its luxurious features and, I must admit in retrospect, I had almost become blinded by "Apple" this and "Apple" that, and it is a VERY easy hole to fall into. I respect Apple - they have made some wonderful and incredibly groundbreaking products, noone can say they haven't, BUT... I want to help humanity, not necessarily keep throwing bundles of cash @ Apple, every time they bring out something new. I just have to stop, I have decided.

I'd love to hear your views on why you support free software & GNU/Linux - it really is great, isn't it!.

Thankyou, and have fun. :D

[gnomeuser]

Open Source software is simply better, if it's broken I can help fix it. I can interact with the people who write the software rather than marketing and phone tech supporter people.

Additionally Open Source software is initially free, there is no nagware, no trials. I feel a higher degree of trust in it because the source is there exposed for the world.

Open Source is easy to get involved with, it's great for learning.

Nothing supports more hardware out of the box than Linux, it's hard to beat. Linux runs on anything from the cellphone in your pocket to the servers that bring you GMail happiness.

I think the better question is what drives people to proprietary software?

[youbuntu]

...I think the better question is what drives people to proprietary software?

One reason I can think of, is that it is what people are brought up on - in schools & colleges, it is dominant. I need not insult your intelligence by explaining how that works; we probably all know. I don't feel Apple are "evil" as such, but they do make rather large wads of cash, from selling shiny things... and I like shiny things! :D

I want to keep my Mac mini - after all, I paid for it... but if I can run GNU/Linux on it ALONE, I'll give that a try, and hopefully break my dependancy on Mac OS X.

[gnomeuser]

One reason I can think of, is that it is what people are brought up on - in schools & colleges, it is dominant. I need not insult your intelligence by explaining how that works; we probably all know. I don't feel Apple are "evil" as such, but they do make rather large wads of cash, from selling shiny things... and I like shiny things! :D

I want to keep my Mac mini - after all, I paid for it... but if I can run GNU/Linux on it ALONE, I'll give that a try, and hopefully break my dependancy on Mac OS X.

Apple are evil - trust me, just look at how they DMCA peaceful reverse engineering efforts for the iPhone so it will work under Linux.

Regardless, people do run Open Source every day. They search google, they use their Android phones. Their TV, router and pretty much any other OS driven appliance runs Linux. The only place they are not using it is their desktop and that is purely learned behavior I agree. I think we can change that but I think it will change largely by moving more and more computing onto "non computer devices" such as phones. Conquering the desktop.. by destroying it.

[obithius]

I have an old laptop which really struggled to keep up with windows xp (came with windows me I think)and was pretty much obsolete,which was a shame as everything worked hardware wise,and it was good enough for what I need.I really love that I can run a modern,secure os on it with everything I need and save my laptop from the bin!

[SteveHillier]

One reason I can think of, is that it is what people are brought up on - in schools & colleges, it is dominant. I need not insult your intelligence by explaining how that works; we probably all know.

I don't know when I first heard about Linux but Christmas 1996 when I was employed to teach 11-16 year olds about IT and all things related I installed my first copy of Linux - SUSE.
My motivation for this is that I felt it my duty to inform my students that there was a world outside Windows. When part of the syllabus involved teaching about multi user, multi tasking OSs it is b..... difficult if there is no example to demonstrate.
More recently (and really ever since I installed Dapper Drake from a CD supplied with a magazine) I have been more seriously involved.
I now maintain two linux based web servers (1 x Fedora, 1 x Ubuntu), a couple of NAS servers (FreeNAS), a number of desktop machines (flavours of Ubuntu). I have toyed with RedHat (before it went enterprise only), I have looked at Gentoo and a few others.

I like it for servers for all the obvious reasons. I like the modern desktops. But don't get me wrong. I have in my office machines running XP, Vista, Win7, Win2003 server. I support systems with Win 2000 and Win 2008. That is now my business but I recently got a work experience student to load and use Ubuntu, my web designer is being told he must get into Ubuntu, my walk in consultant is wedded to Open source.
We use OpenPanel, OpenCart, Drupal, and many other open source products. You cannot rely on MS to do any of these things sensibly.
Enough from me on this - you get my drift

[Kunkles]

I love free software because I hate demos and trials.

Simple as that, whenever there was a program I really needed on Windows that cost $40+, there was always a Linux Free software equivalent that did things better.

[andymorton]

I have to admit that I didn't really know (or care) about open source vs proprietary software until I stumbled upon Ubuntu a few years ago. I'd like to be able to blame it on growing up in a Windows dominated world but it was probably more to do with laziness on my part.
So I suppose that finding Ubuntu has opened my eyes a lot.
Unfortunately, there are times when using proprietary is unavoidable. Mainly when statistical and scientific analysis sofware for university assignments.

[The Funkbomb]

Let's be honest. The number one thing is the price. Along the same lines, if something doesn't work right, I can always just uninstall it. No harm, no foul.

That's only when I feel there is no hope. If it's a major bug, I can write in and well supported projects, get this, ACTUALLY LISTEN. If it's a minor bug, I can try to fix it but I'm not very good at that so it rarely happens.

I have nothing against proprietary software, if it's well written. Adobe photoshop is a stellar program. I truly believe it's the best picture editing program I have ever seen, one that truly belongs as the industry standard. Same thing with AutoCAD.

[Wannaknow]

I'm new to this. But, it didn't take long to realize that, outside of Mac and MS, there really is another world out there. And, IT'S FREE! What a concept. Not only that, it's damn good! I decided that I didn't want to support proprietary MACs and bug-ridden MS programs that are highly prone to hackers. And, as others have mentioned, if you don't like the program that you just downloaded - sack it! No money lost/wasted. I was a devout MS user. But, with each new OS version, came a high price. And, try calling/emailing Apple or Microsoft when you have a problem...who's there to help you? And, how much do they charge!!?? Here you have an intelligent, competent group of people - a confederacy of computer anarchists, if you will - who will help to guide you through any problem that you might have. Hmm. What a concept. Give it a whirl! I don't think you'll be dissappointed. Instead, you'll be liberated. Good Luck.

[uberdonkey5]

I was driven to ubuntu originally by an increasingly slow XP machine and a couple of incidences of viruses (lost all my photographic media with a worm).

I have never lost data with ubuntu, but I have had to reinstall at least 5 times for messing with the system.

undoubtedly commercial software has higher QC standards, and I do video editing in windows. However, having become accustomed to linux, and returning recently to windows on a works compputer, I realise how frustrating windows is. Ubuntu is more transparent than gimicky windows (I am not sure how to display icons of photos in the file view, but this is automatic in ubuntu). Also, today vista forced an update on me and I wasn't sure how to stop it (option to stop it wasn't available).

I feel windows tries to be user friendly, but simultaneously takes power out of your hands. Much of the 'free' software on windows is also part of a marketing scheme and just there ultimately to sell you a product. I also believe virus protection should come with the operating system! It is the system that allows viruses to penetrate! Its like buying a house, and the previous owner removed all the doors.

[dragos240]

Well. Open Source software is well..... open source. So if I find a bug. I can submit a patch. with closed source software, you will have really cut yourself off.

[KinKiac]

Personally my main concern is the fact that opensource is free to use, for the most part. I couldnt stand paying again and again every time I needed a tool to burn CD's, or create various archives, or customize my desktop, or any number of other things. once I found out that much of the proprietary software out there could be replaced by free open source software it kinda pissed me off. To think that people out there want to charge me 20, 30 or 50$ for a small piece of software that has already been developed by someone else for free, just kinda ticks me off.

Im not saying all proprietary software is bad, much of it does give added value, extra features, plus support, plus updates etc etc. But, in this day and age, if I can get away with using software that was developed for all to use without having to pay such fees, then I am so much better off.

Then there are other reasons as well, like freedom. I remekber when I first found out i could use the UXTheme patcher to patch windows and let me use all kinds of different themses and icon packs and logins, boot skins etc etc. I love being able to customize my system. But, I was frustrated with the fact that in order to do so I had to basically hack my windows. I was doing things to it that could break it, things it was never meant to do. Its just so... locked up. I got sick of seeing the same old start menu and the same old taskbar again and again in each of the windows OS's even to this day. i mean they make look nicer, give it some transparency, some cool new buttons, but in the end it is still the same old concept, the same design just expanded on. I wanted to be able to change to something else, I wanted the freedom of being able to customize everything. I also didnt want to have to learn to program either.

Then I found out about Ubuntu, and havent been happier since.

[youbuntu]

Well. Open Source software is well..... open source. So if I find a bug. I can submit a patch. with closed source software, you will have really cut yourself off.

Free software is better - better ethics, and "Open source" conveniently side-step the ethics part of it, by not including it as a good reason to use the software. The FSF stand firm that to share and to help your neighbour, is possibly THE most important reason. Open source just focus on the convenience alone, which is a shame, and it ignores the helping and caring ideals we all need to start thinking about a LOT more.

[Simian Man]

Because Open Source software tends to be better. It is more customizable because if anybody wants an option, it will tend to be implemented. It is more stable because there are more eyes looking at the implementation. You don't have to worry about vendor lock-in because anybody can support and develop it. It's also more pleasant to work with because it tends to be free which means no writing down access keys, getting screwed by scratched CDs or fighting copy protection crap.

Honestly I don't much care about the FSF or its politics. There are much more important ethical problems to deal with in this world.

[youbuntu]

Because Open Source software tends to be better. It is more customizable because if anybody wants an option, it will tend to be implemented. It is more stable because there are more eyes looking at the implementation. You don't have to worry about vendor lock-in because anybody can support and develop it. It's also more pleasant to work with because it tends to be free which means no writing down access keys, getting screwed by scratched CDs or fighting copy protection crap.

Honestly I don't much care about the FSF or its politics. There are much more important ethical problems to deal with in this world.

I appreciate and respect your personal point of view, but if you don't care about freedom or the betterment of society, then you may as well be using Windows or Mac OS X.

Saying there are more important ethical problems may well be true, but it all matters in the overall big picture, and that is a bit of a cop-out to be completely honest. Think about it a little.

[RiceMonster]

I don't use it because of the imaginary ethical issues involved. However, it is nice knowing that there is no EULAs or product keys, and that I do have access to the source code if I so wish.


I appreciate and respect your personal point of view, but if you don't care about freedom or the betterment of society, then you may as well be using Windows or Mac OS X.

Saying there are more important ethical problems may well be true, but it all matters in the overall big picture, and that is a bit of a cop-out to be completely honest. Think about it a little.

So people aren't allowed to use Linux simply because they prefer it? So much for "freedom". For us or against us, am right?

[hessiess]

Realising just how badly designed and fundamentally broken MS windows actually is.

[Tristam Green]

So people aren't allowed to use Linux simply because they prefer it? So much for "freedom". For us or against us, am right?

A growing sentimentality that I know select few persons within the FOSS community are attempting to dispel. KiwiNZ, for instance.

I use FOSS because I like to tinker, and I like to tinker at my own rate.

However, on the same token, there are things I just like to work - if it doesn't, I'm turned off.

I use Windows because I game face it - it's the industry standard desktop system, I support it 100% at work, and for my purposes, it's equally easy to fix, and fixes are sometimes even more easily accessible.

[JPA2]

As a brand new user of Ubuntu and open source software, I can tell you that the lack of support for most proprietary, and never ending costs of upgrading to new os and paying to upate software drove me to look for alternatives. I think a main misconception is that open source is often stripped down,limited and not stable because of ongoing development.
This could not be more untrue! I have found that not only are software applications practically unlimited, but in some instances better! Try an app. don't like it? dump it. It didn't cost a dime. Support is always there. I installed Ubuntu 9.10 a week ago, have windows 7 on another drive, I have not booted windows since nor do i think i will. It is indeed an awakening! I now rage how great Linux is to all windows friends. To any windows user who is debating on using Linux and open source, I can say as a new user to take a second look, Linux is NOT just a command line any more, the GUI is great! If you don't want to let go of windows, check this out, you can run windows in suns virtualbox on your Linux desktop!! You no have no reason to at least not give it a shot. Jump in the water is fine, you will not regret it. It's like being reborn lol.

[jollysnowman]

The last application I paid for was Office, back in 2000. (Ok, my dad paid for it) The primary reason that I like FOSS is well, the price. As a student, I don't really see why I should pay for Photoshop when I could just use Gimp and buy some groceries. As a computer science major, I like the ability to see what's inside my applications, and to be able to change if I wish (usually don't, though). I also really like the philosophy behind free/open-source, and RMS's definition of "free" has many good points.

That said, after seeing RMS speak and having a word with him afterward, I think he's pretty effing crazy and arrogant.

I am, however, willing to pay for an operating system like Windows or Mac OS. One must be able to appreciate the out-of-the-box polish of these OSes. I'm a huge fan of Windows 7.

[ve4cib]

I wouldn't say that I'm driven to use OSS software. If there's an awesome piece of proprietary software that does exactly what I need, and there's no good OSS alternative I'll use the proprietary software. Obviously I prefer OSS -- because of the price tag, and the fact that I can tinker if I don't like something -- but OSS is not a requirement in my life.

When creating/publishing software I definitely prefer releasing it under the (L)GPL simply because I like to think that by doing so I'm helping someone else avoid reinventing the wheel. If I spend hours (or days, or weeks) solving a particularly hard problem I feel like I should share that work with the world so that other people can benefit from it. Keeping solutions to those sorts of problems to yourself does nothing but hold everyone else back and force them to redo the same work over and over again.

[youbuntu]

It's such a shame that the general feeling I am getting from people is that they only seem to care about convenience, stability & price. That is WHY I respect Richard Stallman so much; maybe he is quite outspoken, but good for him - "stand for something, or you'll fall for ANYTHING" as they say.

This makes me very sad, and only serves to strengthen the proof that people are, more and more, only out for themselves, under various feel-good guises. Humanity is continuing to make the same stupid mistakes, and it looks like not a lot is changing - as long as number one is okay, then people don't really seem to care about freedom or helping their friends and fellow humans, no matter WHAT they say to try and argue to the contrary!.



## Would you care if someone's car broke down?... would you stop and offer help?.

## Would you care if someone got attacked in front of you, even if helping them put you at risk?

## Would you give someone your last £1/$1, if it meant helping them out?



Call me a cynic, but I prefer to think of myself as a realist - people are thinking LESS about their fellow man, and FAR more about what's the risk for me, or what's IN it for me.


Free software will stand out in history as a wonderful contribution to society, by the great deeds of Richard Stallman, Linus Torvalds and the manyfold numbers of people who selflessly contribute their spare time, VERY often for no fee, for the greater good of humanity.

They will be remembered, selfish people come and go, and generally tend to be forgotten in the blink of an eye. Help your community - if you are SERIOUS about free software and open source, then you'll do so. If you're not, that's fine, but don't expect others to help YOU when you need it, even though people probably will :).

Your freedoms are being fought for, by the MINORITY in society - whether or not you care to face that fact and show your gratitude, is entirely your decision, and noone can judge you for it. I respect the geeky, quirky people who are genuine and honest, and those who you can TELL are kind and want to help - their only required reward is to see something up and running, and the person whom they're helping, smiling and grateful for that.

Money is a dirty trap which we fall into far too easily without evaluating its TRUE value sometimes - community spirit has gone, it seems. I hope we can restore the faith in humanity and in society, as it seems to be almost lacking, judging by the comments on this thread, so far.


Remember: Divided we FALL.

[RiceMonster]

*snip*

Sounds like you need a cause. Go find a charity, a homeless shelter, or something related that you can volunteer at if you want to help with something that matters.

Remember, it's software, not a religion.

[youbuntu]

Sounds like you need a cause. Go find a charity, a homeless shelter, or something related that you can volunteer at if you want to help with something that matters.

Remember, it's software, not a religion.

Helping people is not a religion - it is what humans do best. This IS a cause - the cause that has helped to empower you to be using Ubuntu right now, or had you not realised this?. Selfish people would have NEVER started the FSF, you'd quite possibly still be using proprietary software. I'd ask you to reconsider the illogical nature of your last comment, for a moment.

[RiceMonster]

Helping people is not a religion - it is what humans do best. This IS a cause - the cause that has helped to empower you to be using Ubuntu right now, or had you not realised this?. Selfish people would have NEVER started the FSF, you'd quite possibly still be using proprietary software.

First, I do not use Ubuntu, I use other distros. Second, you use Ubuntu and you push FSF ideals this much? Ubuntu comes with binary blobs in the kernel and allows you to download proprietary drivers, and other things such as codecs and flash. You'd better find a distro that is TruelyFree™.

[hoppipolla]

I just got curious really :)

[Tristam Green]

Sounds like you need a cause. Go find a charity, a homeless shelter, or something related that you can volunteer at if you want to help with something that matters.

Remember, it's software, not a religion.

This is true.


Helping people is not a religion - it is what humans do best. This IS a cause - the cause that has helped to empower you to be using Ubuntu right now, or had you not realised this?. Selfish people would have NEVER started the FSF, you'd quite possibly still be using proprietary software. I'd ask you to reconsider the illogical nature of your last comment, for a moment.

glossy, while your big post about "divided we fall" sounds great on paper, that's exactly what the FOSS community is - the penultimate in division. Why else are there so many distros, package managers, sound systems and media players available? It wasn't "oh, I bet this will help my fellow man", I can guarantee you that. It was "I can do this better than he can, use my product and not his".

Maybe the first FOSS projects were done with that very intention, to help, but it's largely lost its way. Really, though, I think the first FOSS projects were created with the intention of "see what I can do/what I did, here, you can use it too!" rather than straight-up benevolence.

[youbuntu]

First, I do not use Ubuntu, I use other distros. Second, you use Ubuntu and you push FSF ideals this much? Ubuntu comes with binary blobs in the kernel and allows you to download proprietary drivers, and other things such as codecs and flash. You'd better find a distro that is TruelyFree™.

I have no reason to justify my presence @ Ubuntu forums - had you assumed I needed to do so?. I am here for my own reasons, in the very same respect as you are, thanks for the advice.

[cariboo]

Helping people is not a religion - it is what humans do best. This IS a cause - the cause that has helped to empower you to be using Ubuntu right now, or had you not realised this?. Selfish people would have NEVER started the FSF, you'd quite possibly still be using proprietary software. I'd ask you to reconsider the illogical nature of your last comment, for a moment.

You seem to be giving people a lot more credit than they deserve. Most of the software we use every day was created by someone that had an itch that needed scratching, whether it was software that wasn't available, or something to put on a resume.

Even the kernel was only created as a hobby os, I haven't seen anything anywhere saying that os software was created to help our fellow man.

[lethalfang]

A peace of mind that there will be no vendor lock-in.
I only proprietary software I use is MATLAB..... yeah, I don't have much of a choice there.

[Tristam Green]

You seem to be giving peoplw a lot more credit than they deserve. Most of the software we use every day was created by someone that had an itch that needed scratching, whether it was software that wasn't available, or something to put on a resume.

Even the kernel was only created as a hobby os, I haven't seen anything anywhere saying that os software was created to help our fellow man.

The man(correct me if I'm wrong - TG) don't lie.

[phersotty]

Well "free software" is not always better. I mean there are some good proprietary softwares out there that have invested a lot of time and money into making a solid product, but what drives me to free software is that fact that I can do what ever I want with it. I don't mind paying for "free software" as long as I am not restricted in its use. The most recent example of proprietary bogus is the new slim PS3. They took away the option to install Linux on it which is primary reason I just went out and got one. I thought I was going to be able to install Linux on it, but found out that they dropped support for it. So I played with it for a week, finished the Batman game I bought with it and then took the PS3 back to Bestbuy and sold the game on eBay. Now I'm shopping for one of the previous generation PS3 to so I can still have a little freedom of what I do with the hardware. I think the major obstacle for "free software" is that there isn't a lot of "free" hardware out there. If manufactures would make their hardware more universal then we could really see some amazing technology. Its like we humans are limiting our own potential. Take cars for example... I can put what ever wheels I want on my ride without having being restricted to a proprietary set of rims and rubber.

[LunaticHiatus]

I am a RMS fan as well, but I think Eben Moglen works better for people still Stallman is so very silly looking no one takes him seriously and he is so easily trolled.

Either way, when you get used to having the source code readily available for software and suddenly are confronted with random .exe files that you are not entirely sure what they do and while. The argument for free software becomes obvious. Why would anyone want software you have to install but cannot trust?

[youbuntu]

This is true.



glossy, while your big post about "divided we fall" sounds great on paper, that's exactly what the FOSS community is - the penultimate in division. Why else are there so many distros, package managers, sound systems and media players available? It wasn't "oh, I bet this will help my fellow man", I can guarantee you that. It was "I can do this better than he can, use my product and not his".

Maybe the first FOSS projects were done with that very intention, to help, but it's largely lost its way. Really, though, I think the first FOSS projects were created with the intention of "see what I can do/what I did, here, you can use it too!" rather than straight-up benevolence.

Well, if it hasn't already lost it's way, which I can firmly reassure you that it hasn't, then the FSF sure would go down the pan fast, if we all adopted that attitude :rolleyes:.

If you don't understand the philosophy and reasoning of Free software, which it appears you don't, then go and read up on it. People always react to things which they don't understand - why not TRY and understand why the FSF says what it does - it makes a LOT more sense.

No, not ALL people who develop for Free software care about or even respect their freedom OR even understand what the FSF is about, but it is the people that DO care that we're interested in - they're the people who are valuable to strengthening this cause, not the people who are ignorant of the facts, or couldn't care less. Noone expects ANYONE to change their viewpoint, but this is mine, and I stick to my principles, in the same vein as you stick to yours in NOT agreeing with me, or the values of the FSF, and that's fine with me.

Dismiss it as an "ideal" if you like to, but that won't make it go away. I respect your opinion, and have a nice day :)

[Tristam Green]

One always enjoys having a rebuttal utterly dismissed as bunk, and then being told to have a nice day.

Unflinching sarcasm aside, I don't really understand why you are equating the Free/Open Source Community with the Free Software Foundation. The FSF is merely the legal arm of the FOSS Community at large; it is not the FOSS Community itself, and certainly not the sole representative (or even the most unbiased) of the Community either.

[LunaticHiatus]

One always enjoys having a rebuttal utterly dismissed as bunk, and then being told to have a nice day.

Unflinching sarcasm aside, I don't really understand why you are equating the Free/Open Source Community with the Free Software Foundation. The FSF is merely the legal arm of the FOSS Community at large; it is not the FOSS Community itself, and certainly not the sole representative (or even the most unbiased) of the Community either.

the Gnu community founded free software. The Open Source Initiative is just Eric Raymonds wet dream that he actually matters. They do more then just legal work as well. The free software foundation also releases free software as well, particularly EMACS and released, re-releases the GPL.

[youbuntu]

One always enjoys having a rebuttal utterly dismissed as bunk, and then being told to have a nice day.

Unflinching sarcasm aside, I don't really understand why you are equating the Free/Open Source Community with the Free Software Foundation. The FSF is merely the legal arm of the FOSS Community at large; it is not the FOSS Community itself, and certainly not the sole representative (or even the most unbiased) of the Community either.

Free software is NOT "Open-Source" software. People (incorrectly) put Free software under the same umbrella as "Open-Source" software, and bundle it as "Free and Open source" (FOSS) - technically ALMOST identical, but the philosophies couldn't be further apart.

Thankyou for your input, and by the way - I don't make sarcastic smily faces - that was genuine. I don't feel the need, nor self-insecurity to have to resort to the lowest form of humour (?) to amuse me.


the Gnu community founded free software. The Open Source Initiative is just Eric Raymonds wet dream that he actually matters. They do more then just legal work as well. The free software foundation also releases free software as well, particularly EMACS and released, re-releases the GPL.

Precisely - finally SOMEONE who knows their facts - you're few and far between, it would seem. It's refreshing to meet someone who actually knows the facts about what they use, and it's legacy. :)

Free software = Free software

Open-source = Open-source

FOSS = a blurring of the distinction, in the same way that "intellectual property" is a nonsensical, umbrella term to save lawyers having to explain real facts.


A point to the uninformed: Why do you think it is, that if you go to Google Video and search "Richard Stallman", that there are SO many lectures of his, around the world, that essentially say the same thing?. I think this is because there is an uphill struggle ahead, but no battle WORTH winning, is fought with ease - he has to travel the world and REPEAT the FSF & GPL message as much as possible - maybe ONE day, it will finally sink in. That day may be sooner or later, but hey... at least he has the guts and backbone to fight for what he founded and believes in - good for him - I'd never stop supporting the guy and his ideals, it is a worthy cause and he's a legend!!.

[ve4cib]

Helping people is not a religion - it is what humans do best.

Actually I'm pretty sure that human history has shown time and again that we're far, far better at looking out for ourselves and killing each other than we are at helping each other. If helping people was really what we did best then the US wouldn't be going through its current health-care "crisis," there wouldn't be wars happening on at least three continents right now ("wars" being somewhat loosely defined to encomapss any semi-organized, ongoing (para-)military action), and everyone in the world would have sufficient food and complimentary healthcare. And communism would actually have worked.


As for the OSS ?= religion angle that this thread briefly dipped into, I think for some people OSS is definitely a religion. And unfortunately most of the OSS disciples try harder than Jehovah's Witnesses to convert people to their cause.

Generally I think it's far healthier for everyone to stay relatively agnostic when it comes to OSS vs Proprietary software. Use whatever you like, but respect other peoples' right to do likewise. If you support OSS then by all means, donate your time and money to such projects. When you come up with a good, new idea release the code under an OSS license. But don't get mad at people if they decide that they prefer using Photoshop on a Mac over GIMP under UbuntuStudio.

[starcannon]

I could not care less if my applications are open or closed; my operating system on the other hand, that I require to be wholly open. If I want to futz with it, I want to futz with it. I am more than willing to buy closed applications, and to donate to open applications.

I was driven to an Open Source Operating System, after years of paying for a closed source one that gave me continual headaches.

[Simian Man]

GlossyWhite, if you really want to help free software, you would be FAR better off actually working on an open source project than trying to proselytize the FSF's agenda like this. In fact, someone who uses Windows and Visual Studio to develop an open source app would be doing much more for FOSS than someone who just uses Linux.

BTW I am developing a few (far from finished) open source projects on my own time in between being a graduate student, so I don't appreciate you implying that I'm selfish for not caring about your "ideals". BTW I use the MIT license :).


Free software is NOT "Open-Source" software. People (incorrectly) put Free software under the same umbrella as "Open-Source" software, and bundle it as "Free and Open source" (FOSS) - technically ALMOST identical, but the philosophies couldn't be further apart.

This is a total non-issue of phraseology that doesn't actually matter. Just like the Linux vs. Gnu/Linux thing.

[youbuntu]

I apologise to everyone in this thread, if I have insulted or offended you in any way. My wish is not to alienate or anger people, but at the same time, I believe that Free software IS the way forward, and I am completely unapologetic in this viewoint.

The only people that can help humanity, are HUMANS, with God's guidance. I am a Christian, and I have behaved more than a little arrogantly in some of my posts, which is not a very good reflection on myself or on Christianity, and I am very sorry if I have appeared pompous or blinkered.

Again, my being a Christian is my personal choice, and my belief is not me saying I expect you to feel the same - I respect you all and your opinions, and I just want everyone to be happy in what they do, in software and ALL aspects of life.

I am sorry for being arrogant and pompous, now let's have a nice weekend people - take care all of you, and God bless you all! :D :D