Why is everyone complaining about Karmic.

[kio_http]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

Edit after 4 pages of responses:
I guess Ubuntu Karmic is buggy compared to jaunty except for intel graphics then?

Then again my experiences have been positive with Kubuntu Karmic which I find very stable. Most of the people on the forum use Ubuntu without the K so I'm guessing I can't really expect to be able to consider the problems common to both due to the difference in DE's

[pwnst*r]

cool story, bro.

[JillSwift]

People complain hardily about Mandriva 2010.0
People are complaining that Fedora 12 isn't ready yet
People complain that their porridge isn't just right.

In short: People complain.

So there.
Nyah!

[Giant Speck]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Because they shouldn't have to do that. They should be able to effortlessly upgrade from one version to the next.


Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

That totally negates everyone else's problems. Good job.

[TuckLive]

cool story, bro.

you forgot the picture bro!

[fela]

Karmic clean install didn't work for me: didn't boot, hung at the second message. However Kubuntu worked for some strange reason, possibly I downloaded it after a major bug had been fixed or something.

[gradinaruvasile]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

U use Kubuntu, right? That uses ALSA by default i think. So does Xubuntu - i installed this one and works great. But i did a fresh install on an unused partition. Maybe the upgrading mechanism has its problems too.

Most users use the Gnome version and that seems to have the most problems (pulseaudio is the source of the most of those it seems). I do have a collegue at work who upgraded to Karmic (Gnome) and he ran into PulseAudio problems. I tested the betas and rcs and i had sound problems on all test machines.

[praveesh]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

Do you expect someone to complain for no reason ?

[praveesh]

cool story, bro.

bro?

[Giant Speck]

bro?

Bro, man.

[Skripka]

people complain hardily about mandriva 2010.0
people are complaining that fedora 12 isn't ready yet
people complain that their porridge isn't just right.

In short: People complain.

So there.
Nyah!

qft!!

[pwnst*r]

bro?

brah, bro.

[bonfire89]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

I agree, or in my case, the majority of my files are hosted on another computer from my desktop/main... so.. when it comes time to upgrade, I just off load my 2gigs or whatever small amount I have then install. Fresh install is always nicer to have and reinstalling ubuntu apps is simple.

[Zzl1xndd]

Because they shouldn't have to do that. They should be able to effortlessly upgrade from one version to the next.


Although I agree the OP does have a point anytime you upgrade you should have a back up and be prepared to do a fresh install. This is true with Linux, Windows or OSX.

[lswb]

There seem to be a lot of complaints regarding mainly updating to Karmic. Why don't people just use a separate partition for home folder and do a fresh install every time.

Kubuntu 9.10 Karmic works fine for me.

Perhaps if the ubuntu web site referred to the upgrade method as "experimental" or beta software more people would do clean installs.

And, if 9.10 really works fine for you, then why is there any reason NOT to do an upgrade?

[nobster]

i guess guys are out there to point out faults and in a sense justify themselves using windows or whatever OS they are into...

i'm a newbie.... just installed karmic in a couple of systems. they all had problems of their own and the last system was a total disaster.. rather than complaining i am searching for the solutions and i am sure that as time passes by things will work out.

its the ideology of Ubuntu that keeps me sticking around and draws me closer

[Vadi]

I dont have many problems with KK save for PA sucking again. Still working on fixing it.

[praveesh]

If Ubuntu were windows 7 and broke while upgrading . How would you react?

[Nesaskewatch]

Just an observation from a novice user...

I have three separate versions of Karmic on two systems. Two of them were "sudo update-manager -d", and one a clean install from the ubuntu.com site. All three are noticeably different in several ways. Both of the "upgrades" crashed and required repair before being bootable. The "clean install" required an hour to sort out the wireless that stubbornly refused to connect. Seems no matter how it is installed, it requires a fair knowledge of Ubuntu or you will be sunk. IMHO, this is not a candidate for broad release to anyone other than folks that are already familiar with having to fix Ubuntu.

That said; I love it! But not everyone wants to wile away the hours monkeying with it like I do.

[MasterNetra]

If Ubuntu were windows 7 and broke while upgrading . How would you react?

Last I heard upgrading to window 7 does suck. But idk, as I did a clean install of it onto its partition when I had it. (Tossed it recently, pure Ubuntu Karmic at this time. ^.^)

[Andreas1]

I didn't complain so far, so let me do it here:
ubuntu karmic is unstable and keeps frequently and randomly freezing, apart from a lot of other obvious bugs, like one might expect from beta software. i know, instead of complaining i should report those bugs, and i will...

maybe it's just that after the jaunty intel video disaster i thought i was in for a smooth turn again, you know, karma ;-)

in the meantime i started using debian, and i am enjoying it so far :-)

oh, and one more thought: what improvement has there been, as in really empowering users to do things they couldn't do before? shutting down the computer and changing my online status with one applet?

[slumbergod]

My clean install did nothing to protect me from a range of annoying bugs. People are complaining because there were a lot of expectations placed on Karmic. For many people the hype didn't match the experience.

I like Karmic but I am tired of spending hours trying to find workarounds for silly bugs that should not have been present. Each release is like one step forward followed by two backwards as regressions emerge.

People have a right to complain and so long as they do not get personal it can be useful in getting things sorted out!

[aaaantoine]

The thing about the cutting edge is that it can very likley cut you.

I bet Ubuntu 8.10 (Intrepid) is very stable now. It wasn't when I left it.

[Andreas1]

hey, a serious question: if i (and others) reported all the bugs we find using a release, would they all be fixed? where is the bottleneck in the ubuntu developement?

not enough manpower to fix bugs? not enough bug reporters? bad organization? too tight schedule? bad luck on our part for whom ubuntu turns out buggy because of specific hardware configurations?

[Skripka]

hey, a serious question: if i (and others) reported all the bugs we find using a release, would they all be fixed? where is the bottleneck in the ubuntu developement?

not enough manpower to fix bugs? not enough bug reporters? bad organization? too tight schedule? bad luck on our part for whom ubuntu turns out buggy because of specific hardware configurations?

There are TONS of Ubuntu end-users. There are TONS of Ubuntu bugs that get reported. The ratio of bug-fixers to bug-reports it TINY.

[michaelzap]

hey, a serious question: if i (and others) reported all the bugs we find using a release, would they all be fixed? where is the bottleneck in the ubuntu developement?

not enough manpower to fix bugs? not enough bug reporters? bad organization? too tight schedule? bad luck on our part for whom ubuntu turns out buggy because of specific hardware configurations?

I've come to the conclusion that the root of the problem is a fixed six-month release cycle. Bugs were found and not fixed before Karmic was released because there wasn't enough time to do so, and the kernel is in an exceptionally buggy state right now that will likely be resolved within a week or so. If the devs had been able to say "We need another month before this is ready", I think Karmic would've been an excellent release.

I've been struggling for the last week to get Karmic to work on my laptop. I've now gotten most things working and it no longer crashes constantly, but for a few days there I was forced to use the preinstalled copy of Vista that came with my laptop (and I'd never used before, except to resize it and install Ubuntu). I was very close to jumping to Debian as well.

My issues and the resolutions I've found for most of them are here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=8295058).

So personally I worked on resolving my issues, helped people with theirs when I could, reported as many bugs as possible, and I also complained here in the forums that a whole lot of this Karmic grief was probably unnecessary and the release cycle needs to be reevaluated.

[FuturePilot]

Because they shouldn't have to do that. They should be able to effortlessly upgrade from one version to the next.



That totally negates everyone else's problems. Good job.

This That.

(I'm tired of saying "this" :P)

[kio_http]

Do you expect someone to complain for no reason ?

Well no, but its a known fact a clean install is the best option. Even Windows takes eternity to upgrade and messes up things.

[Skripka]

This That.

(I'm tired of saying "this" :P)

You need to ask an Agent to upgrade your connection to the Matrix.

[michaelzap]

Well no, but its a known fact a clean install is the best option. Even Windows takes eternity to upgrade and messes up things.

I did my usual clean install with Karmic, and it was badly broken from the start. Not everyone who's complaining did an upgrade. And of course upgrades ought to work (or they shouldn't be offered).

[Skripka]

I did my usual clean install with Karmic, and it was badly broken from the start. Not everyone who's complaining did an upgrade. And of course upgrades ought to work (or they shouldn't be offered).

The problem with upgrading automagically, is that config file formatting and syntax changes--sometimes quite often...and trying to keep settings across two (potentially) completely different config files is at best problematic.

I'd guess this problem is exacerbated by the 6-month release nature of Ubuntu, from one six month snapshot of Debian to another,-things can change quite a bit.

[scouser73]

I've only had one "problem" with Karmic and that was the increase in boot times, other than that it works perfectly.