Gnome-Do should be a deault start application for 10.04

[Luke has no name]

What is Gnome-Do?

Gnome-Do is a powerful application launch tool built with GTK/Mono. Using the Super+space key-combo (by default), you open a small box and type in the application you want to use. You can type in formal program names (gcalctool, for example) OR "calculator", which is much more useful for normal users.

Gnome-Do learns your most used applications, so you type less to access your frequent programs (If you use Calculator a lot, you only type "C" to bring it as your first result). It can also be used to look up dictionary definitions, check weather, view and move recent documents, and many other tasks. Its main and most used function, however, is application launching.

Why have it in Ubuntu?

Gnome-Do is a small program, and has been almost completely error free in my several month experience with it. As stated, it has been incredibly useful to me; I almost never use the menus (or alt-F2 or terminal) to launch programs any more. As a laptop user who avoids the touchpad when possible, it makes launching apps from the keyboard very user-friendly (no gconf keyboard shortcuts).

It could be a featured tool in the introductory slide show during installation (or first boot tour), to show people the basic command to access the window, and what its use is.

The typical reaction to "Install <program> by default" is to say that if a user wants it, they can get it themselves. I agree most of the time, but this program excels based on the amount it can be used (every time you launch a program) and the ease of use.

I open the discussion to you, UF.

[gnomeuser]

With the recent Zeitgeist integration gnome-do's docky interface is really starting to be a force to be reconned with. I would love to see this better integrated with GNOME as a whole, it seems like a promising path of development to "gnome-do" the entire desktop shell.

[docus]

Hmmm, I had wondered what Gnome-Do was but I hadn't got round to trying it and finding out. Now I will. Thanks!

[The Funkbomb]

I love Gnome-Do so don't take this the wrong way.

It should NOT be a default in 10.04. Default applications should be neutral and lean. Users should be able to customize their experience to what they want without having to uninstall stuff they don't want. While I love Gnome-Do (docky rocks), I know a few people who can't stand it.

Here is my suggestion. Canonical should add another screen to the install. This would be a highly suggested programs list. The games menu, Evolution, Empathy, Gnome-do and some others would be in there. Check off your options and it will install those packages along with the OS install.

Keeping things neutral appeals to more people.

[Keyper7]

Gnome-Do works very well, specially with Docky. I would love to see it more integrated into Gnome. Unfortunately (correct me if I'm wrong), the Gnome-Do devs didn't like the idea of being under Gnome's six month cycle, so I don't think we'll see it as a default part of the Gnome suite any time soon.

And yes, I have to agree with gnomeuser, Zeitgeist has the potential of turning Gnome-Do/Docky into incredibly powerful little toys.

[23meg]

it seems like a promising path of development to "gnome-do" the entire desktop shell.

Right. GNOME Shell currently lets you pick recently used documents, applications etc. the same way you can with GNOME Do. With Zeitgeist integration, it should be able to access the Zeitgeist items the same way too.

Another place it would be great to have the same functionality would be application menus. Type "Arra.." with Nautilus focused, and it should pick the "Arrange Items" menu item, and let you "right arrow" into the submenu. There was some talk of this on gnome-usability, but I don't recall what came out of it, if anything.

[Tibuda]

With the recent Zeitgeist integration gnome-do's docky interface is really starting to be a force to be reconned with. I would love to see this better integrated with GNOME as a whole, it seems like a promising path of development to "gnome-do" the entire desktop shell.


Right. GNOME Shell currently lets you pick recently used documents, applications etc. the same way you can with GNOME Do. With Zeitgeist integration, it should be able to access the Zeitgeist items the same way too.

Another place it would be great to have the same functionality would be application menus. Type "Arra.." with Nautilus focused, and it should pick the "Arrange Items" menu item, and let you "right arrow" into the submenu. There was some talk of this on gnome-usability, but I don't recall what came out of it, if anything.

Gnome-Do + Compiz Standalone WM make a very good "shell".

[boballen55]

I love Gnome-Do but if I remember correctly it required something like a dozen new packages as dependencies. Most were probably quite small but I believe you were required to at least have evolution (which may have been default and I and uninstalled before getting Do) so it is a significant amount of stuff. So I don't think that it should be on Ubuntu by default. I like the recommended software thought, Linux Mint does that, Ubuntu should too.

[ZankerH]

No, ubuntu is infested by enough proprietary crap as it is. I know Mono is still officially considered Free, but Microsoft and their army of lawyers have the power to change that any time they want, and if you ask me, they're just waiting for GNU/Linux community to fully adopt Mono before they strike a devastating blow. Do you really want to be held hostage like that? The Free software community should work on ridding itself of anything written with that abomination, and finding suitable replacements.

[RiceMonster]

No, ubuntu is infested by enough proprietary crap as it is. I know Mono is still officially considered Free, but Microsoft and their army of lawyers have the power to change that any time they want, and if you ask me, they're just waiting for GNU/Linux community to fully adopt Mono before they strike a devastating blow. Do you really want to be held hostage like that? The Free software community should work on ridding itself of anything written with that abomination, and finding suitable replacements.

Go complain on Boycott Novell. How about we just discuss the software itself instead?

[Tibuda]

No, ubuntu is infested by enough proprietary crap as it is. I know Mono is still officially considered Free, but Microsoft and their army of lawyers have the power to change that any time they want, and if you ask me, they're just waiting for GNU/Linux community to fully adopt Mono before they strike a devastating blow. Do you really want to be held hostage like that? The Free software community should work on ridding itself of anything written with that abomination, and finding suitable replacements.

There's nothing proprietary in Mono, and there are no more hazard than with Samba or the kernel!

[Keyper7]

Go complain on Boycott Novell. How about we just discuss the software itself instead?

He makes an excellent point, though.

If Gnome-Do ends up as a default application, lots of anti-mono fundamentalists will stop using Ubuntu, stop coming to these forums and we might see a drastic reduction in the annoying anti-mono rants. This is a big plus for including Gnome-Do in the default install, as well as Banshee.

Okay, I'm being too optmistic, but I can dream, can't I?

[RiceMonster]

He makes an excellent point, though.

If Gnome-Do ends up as a default application, lots of anti-mono fundamentalists will stop using Ubuntu, stop coming to these forums and we might see a drastic reduction in the annoying anti-mono rants. This is a big plus for including Gnome-Do in the default install, as well as Banshee.

Okay, I'm being too optmistic, but I can dream, can't i?

lol :D. Your dream has good cause.

[directhex]

I heard Shuttleworth likes Do...

[mamamia88]

i do think it should be installed by default it's one of the first things i do when installing ubuntu

[TheNessus]

I heard Shuttleworth likes Do...



I heard he reads the morning newspaper with... wait for it -


Coffee.


Can you believe that? Mr. Shuttleworth himself! Oh. My.... GOD.


The last I heard, Mr. Shuttleworth has been actually SEEN in using a CAR. AMAGAD AMAGAD!

And his name... Shuttleworth... is just, just... oh, I can't. It's so shuttly, I'm at a loss of words.

[-grubby]

He makes an excellent point, though.

If Gnome-Do ends up as a default application, lots of anti-mono fundamentalists will stop using Ubuntu, stop coming to these forums and we might see a drastic reduction in the annoying anti-mono rants. This is a big plus for including Gnome-Do in the default install, as well as Banshee.

Okay, I'm being too optmistic, but I can dream, can't I?

But mono is evil... evil! Micro$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$oft will just totally ruin desktop Linux because... well, because it will. YEAH.

[The Funkbomb]

i do think it should be installed by default it's one of the first things i do when installing ubuntu

The first thing I do is enable UFW and deny all incoming. As I install services like samba, I peck away what ports need to be open and who gets access.

Should UFW come enabled and automatically deny all incoming traffic? Nah. Neutrality trumps popularity in my opinion. When you install Ubuntu, you get a pretty decent base with a few extras installed. I like it that way.

[3rdalbum]

When you install Ubuntu, you get a pretty decent base with a few extras installed. I like it that way.

I installed PC-BSD into a virtual machine the other day. It ships with an icon editor. No, I'm not joking. It also ships with JuK which doesn't seem to be able to play CDs, and also KsCD which can. The default install includes Dragon Player AND SMplayer.

It forced me to remember that, before Ubuntu became popular, most Linux distributions included two e-mail clients, three word processors and six text editors in their default install.

[The Funkbomb]

I installed PC-BSD into a virtual machine the other day. It ships with an icon editor. No, I'm not joking. It also ships with JuK which doesn't seem to be able to play CDs, and also KsCD which can. The default install includes Dragon Player AND SMplayer.

It forced me to remember that, before Ubuntu became popular, most Linux distributions included two e-mail clients, three word processors and six text editors in their default install.

This is why I propose another install page. Try to picture this...

Basically it breaks a page down into categories sorta like how the Software center does it. Under each category, it recommends packages that you can install by default. For example, say I didn't want evolution as my email client. It would give me the option to install Thunderbird instead, straight away. An app like Gnome-Do could fall under a miscellaneous category of popular applications.

While it would make the install process a little longer, it would shorten set up time by a bunch. It could also be a place where new software is displayed and promoted.

[Tibuda]

I heard Shuttleworth likes Do...

That's probably why he hired Siegel.

[Viva]

I've switched to kupfer myself.

[Vadi]

No it shouldn't be, because there are faster, more efficient, and smaller in size alternatives out there.

Thanks.

[tuahaa]

I'll probably be using it a lot once my documents begin to mass up. I just did a fresh install getting rid of things I don't need:D

[coldReactive]

The moment gnome-do and gnome-shell come, I'm going pure XFCE or KDE.

Though, my IBM ThinkPad T41 cannot handle KDE.

[tuahaa]

yeah Gnome Shell looks tricky to use... But think about it, they can't be the same forever or they'll fall behind KDE...

[coldReactive]

yeah Gnome Shell looks tricky to use... But think about it, they can't be the same forever or they'll fall behind KDE...

Plus, compiz doesn't work with Gnome Shell.

[vagrantrooper]

Yeah then we can be truly called a Mac rip off.;)

[niteshifter]

Hi,

Here's a thought:

You set up your computer the way you like.

I'll set mine up the way I like. And that person over there will set theirs up the way they like it.

And so forth. Freedom. To. Choose.

Yep, I'm one those that don't care for Gnome-Do (or Gnome Shell). It shows up in an upcoming release I'll exercise my freedom to choose.

I'll un-install it, pronto. That breaks Ubuntu version XX.XX? Off to another distro I go. I'll bet I'm not alone in my thinking here.

Look, I grok it: You really, really like Gnome-Do. And you wish to share the joy. Good on ya, really. But these machines are called Personal Computers for a reason. Under the hood, they are all pretty much alike (CPU, RAM, I/O and storage), what makes them truly personal is the DE/UI combination and GNU/Linux is the one OS that gives people not only a choice, but the means to truly have a personal, customized to precisely the way they like it interface to the system. Sticking Gnome-Do - a very subjective means of interfacing - as default would be moving in the wrong direction. That's the Microsoft way of thinking: This is really good / cool / whatever. You must like it. We know what you need, etc.

Ok, end rant. And notice - I didn't bash Mono, not even once. It was difficult, though ;)

[phrostbyte]

No, with one exception.

I think Ubuntu should watch it's memory footprint. Mono is not currently among the session dependencies (it isn't loaded to memory on login, only when it's needed). Gnome-Do is launched by Mono. The Mono runtime consumes 20 MB of memory on my computer. If Gnome-Do comes preinstalled, Mono will become a session dependency, consuming memory the entire time the user is logged in. While 20 MB might not seem like much, this is significantly more then anything else currently launched on login. Python (which is launched at login for some reason) is second place.

I don't like the proposition of two runtimes having to be launched at login. It would undo a lot of the performance tuning Ubuntu has been getting.

But I think there is a solution to this. If for whatever reason Mono becomes a bootup or session dependency, the Mono runtime should replace the Python runtime. This is possible because Mono can execute Python code (via a library called the "DLR").

[graabein]

I love Gnome Do. I use it mainly to launch applications. After getting used to it I find using the mouse to navigate to the right menu to be almost excruciating!

Would be nice to have it independent of Mono libs though.

[SKLP]

I like do (mostly the classic interface, not docky), I like Mono, too.
However, if it is to be integrated it should be integrated in gnomeShell somehow.

I don't understand what the deal is with many people and GnomeShell. I find it to be (mostly) Compiz+GnomePanel done right.

[Viva]

I love Gnome Do. I use it mainly to launch applications. After getting used to it I find using the mouse to navigate to the right menu to be almost excruciating!

Would be nice to have it independent of Mono libs though.

Kupfer is a python alternative. It is not as slick as DO, but it definitely does the job for me. It is in the karmic repos too.

[Ric_NYC]

I will never install anything that uses Mono.

[zekopeko]

This is why I propose another install page. Try to picture this...

Basically it breaks a page down into categories sorta like how the Software center does it. Under each category, it recommends packages that you can install by default. For example, say I didn't want evolution as my email client. It would give me the option to install Thunderbird instead, straight away. An app like Gnome-Do could fall under a miscellaneous category of popular applications.

While it would make the install process a little longer, it would shorten set up time by a bunch. It could also be a place where new software is displayed and promoted.

A big no on this.
The whole point of installation is to get it done as quick as possible. Ubuntu Desktop team makes the choice for you.
Could you imagine, as an average user, having to select programs with names such us Kopete,Gedit,Gnome-do,Banshee,Krdc etc. ?
Ubuntu became big because they didn't pester you with so much cruft. You installed and had a fully functional desktop.

[zekopeko]

Would be nice to have it independent of Mono libs though.

Not gonna happen.

[zekopeko]

I will never install anything that uses Mono.

Good for you. Letting irrational fear control your actions is so much better. Now move along.

[zekopeko]

That's probably why he hired Siegel.

Probably because Siegel (and the rest of the Do team) actually know how to make a slick, good looking application.

[zekopeko]

No, with one exception.

I think Ubuntu should watch it's memory footprint. Mono is not currently among the session dependencies (it isn't loaded to memory on login, only when it's needed). Gnome-Do is launched by Mono. The Mono runtime consumes 20 MB of memory on my computer. If Gnome-Do comes preinstalled, Mono will become a session dependency, consuming memory the entire time the user is logged in. While 20 MB might not seem like much, this is significantly more then anything else currently launched on login. Python (which is launched at login for some reason) is second place.

I don't like the proposition of two runtimes having to be launched at login. It would undo a lot of the performance tuning Ubuntu has been getting.

But I think there is a solution to this. If for whatever reason Mono becomes a bootup or session dependency, the Mono runtime should replace the Python runtime. This is possible because Mono can execute Python code (via a library called the "DLR").

Good point. From my experience python tends to be a memory hog far more then Mono.

EDIT: Ooopss!!! Could a mod merge all my spam in one post?

[The Funkbomb]

A big no on this.
The whole point of installation is to get it done as quick as possible. Ubuntu Desktop team makes the choice for you.
Could you imagine, as an average user, having to select programs with names such us Kopete,Gedit,Gnome-do,Banshee,Krdc etc. ?
Ubuntu became big because they didn't pester you with so much cruft. You installed and had a fully functional desktop.

Under my proposal, you'd be able to keep the defaults if you wished with no extra work other than an extra click. The current defaults would be checked off by default.

[zekopeko]

Under my proposal, you'd be able to keep the defaults if you wished with no extra work other than an extra click. The current defaults would be checked off by default.

Extra step in the installer. That's a no-no. You want to make installing as simple as possible not more complex. And "it's just one more step" isn't going to fly with the devs.

Better way would be to have an easier way to add only the packages that you want and then only their core dependencies, all this post install.
Make creating custom ISO's super easy. Something like Suse Studio would be nice.

[The Funkbomb]

Extra step in the installer. That's a no-no. You want to make installing as simple as possible not more complex. And "it's just one more step" isn't going to fly with the devs.

Better way would be to have an easier way to add only the packages that you want and then only their core dependencies, all this post install.
Make creating custom ISO's super easy. Something like Suse Studio would be nice.

How is this an easier way?

[coldReactive]

Better way would be to have an easier way to add only the packages that you want and then only their core dependencies, all this post install.
Make creating custom ISO's super easy. Something like Suse Studio would be nice.

A better way is to have Ubuntu go minimal from now on so we can all setup Ubuntu how we like it. No more ubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop packages.

But until gnome metapackage is fixed, this won't happen.

[The Funkbomb]

A better way is to have Ubuntu go minimal from now on so we can all setup Ubuntu how we like it. No more ubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop packages.

But until gnome metapackage is fixed, this won't happen.

I like this idea too. Two CDs. x86 and x64 for the desktop. On the options page, you can choose your desktop environment. By default, it's a minimal install disk. Your choices decide if it stays a minimal install or a full on bloated train wreck.

[directhex]

Here's a serious reply:

I love Do, and I use Do on all my systems, but I don't think it should be a default app.

Why? Because it's not obvious enough.

Unless you stick a big neon sign in front of people, they won't know that it's there in the first place (and won't be able to work out what it's meant to do if they accidentally hit the key combo), unless you use docky - whereby they'll be confused that it behaves differently from the OSX dock.

Nope, I reckon Do works well as-is, as an app used by the elite Ubuntu Desktop people who can cope with the awesome.

[zekopeko]

A better way is to have Ubuntu go minimal from now on so we can all setup Ubuntu how we like it. No more ubuntu-desktop, xubuntu-desktop, kubuntu-desktop packages.

But until gnome metapackage is fixed, this won't happen.

This is super wrong. I don't see people customizing their windows or mac osx. Most people just want to install, restart and then fire up firefox and write some docs.