Our OS Expectations

[Shibblet]

My first impression of Karmic was on my MSI Wind U100, and I couldn't even get it installed.

Once I finally did, I had a brightness setting issue, and the USB ports wouldn't read a USB stick. Come to think of it, that's probably why I couldn't install from the USB Drive. I had to install Jaunty, and then do an upgrade to Karmic.

And these are valid problems and legitimate complaints.

Here's the crux. This is no different than any initial release of any other OS.

Windows XP had major problems upon it's initial release, and provided software patches almost immediately after it hit the market. Some worked, some didn't. Vista was a treasure trove of curse-words, and that was just trying to get manufacturers to get you a driver. To this date, millions of people had to go buy a new printer just because the printer manufacturer decided not to make a Vista driver.

7 was just released, and some people love it, some hate it. It's got its issues just as well as XP or Vista.

So, my questions are... Are we expecting Ubuntu to work flawlessly? Is that is unreasonable? Do we have higher expectations for Ubuntu than we do other OS's?

[Aaron49]

Absolutely not. I dont mean to be biased, but microsoft is a juggernaut of a company. Theres just no getting around that. The resources they posses are enormous, with hands that reach very far. Estimates of Linux users range from between 1-10% of computer users.

Even at 10%, thats still a very small portion of the computer market. It would be unrealistic to expect that Ubuntu be perfect on release. Not to mention the massive combinations of various hardwares that could exist in a computer. Theres always going to problems at the beginning of the release of any OS, its just the way it works.

[Shibblet]

Even at 10%, thats still a very small portion of the computer market. It would be unrealistic to expect that Ubuntu be perfect on release. Not to mention the massive combinations of various hardwares that could exist in a computer. Theres always going to problems at the beginning of the release of any OS, its just the way it works.

The number is more like 1%, but that's even less people, so the expectation is still viable.

Although, I love the fact that people who get frustrated with Ubuntu, "go back to" Windows XP. XP is 8 years old at this point. Of course there won't be many problems.

[noelvh]

I have to say I am sick of the bad mouthing of 9.10. I have been using Ubuntu for a few years and every time a new release comes out there are lots of issues. In a month or 2 they get most of them worked out. If 9.10 dose not work, and 9.04 did step back to 9.04. I am lucky in that every machine I have put 9.10 on worked. I am also not a fan of upgrading, doing a clean install works best for me. I did try the upgrade on two machines and both filed to work. I did a clean install on those machines with great success.

To be honest I do have a bit of an issue with FireFox. It is slow, and the scroll sucks. I have not given up on 9.10 I am just hanging in there till some one has a fix for it.

As I see it M$ has issues out of the gate with new products, and they have a ton of money behind them, and people don't leave them when things go wrong. They do roll back, so should you if you have a problem with 9.10.

Hey think of it this way its free, ether way 9.10 or 9.04.

Another story I wan to share is I was a Kubuntu fan loved it and was so happy, till the new KDE came out. For me it did not work, and I thought it sucked. So what did I do? I tried to fix it using the forums, but was not getting there. I went back to the older version. I was using Ubuntu on a work machine, and thought Gnome was so easy why not make the switch. I did and I have been even happier.

So I ask report your issues, in a manner that is respectful, and I am sure there will be some one with a fix or a work around. Bashing 9.10 is going to be met with bashing the basher. In time 9.10 will be great this I am sure of.

Noel

[aysiu]

So, my questions are... Are we expecting Ubuntu to work flawlessly? Is that is unreasonable? Do we have higher expectations for Ubuntu than we do other OS's? Yes, of course we have higher expectations. It's mainly because a lot of overzealous Ubuntu users make it sound as if Ubuntu is the cure for all your Windows problems. I repeatedly read blogs and "articles" claiming Ubuntu can do everything Windows can do, Ubuntu will never crash, and Ubuntu supports more hardware than Windows.

So people think, "Hey, Ubuntu sounds pretty great. Sounds like Windows but free and without any problems.... Oh, wait. I had a problem. Why did I listen to those Ubuntu people? This is garbage!"

Ubuntu isn't marketed correctly by most people. Some undermarket Ubuntu ("Ubuntu is just for geeks. It will always be for only geeks. It sucks. No one could possible get this piece of crap to work.") and some overmarket it ("Ubuntu will end world hunger and stop all wars"). The truth is somewhere in between and, believe it or not, if you are truthful and highlight both the good and bad parts of Ubuntu, you are far more likely to have satisfied "customers," because the problems will be expected problems and the successes will be pleasant surprises.

[ElSlunko]

I think many experienced computer users, i.e. experienced windows users, know how to begin to remedy a situation that may arise. They're already comfortable with the way their OS can implode and known solutions or at least how to begin to diagnose problems and get them fixed.

When they come to Ubuntu to give it a whirl the solutions may be slightly different (I feel easier) and even something as simple as learning the new file structure really puts them on edge.

When I first started using Ubuntu 2 years ago I ran into hardware issues and was very frustrated with the manner I had to approach remedying my problems. I couldn't find my precious control panel or device manager so I felt quite lost. 2 years later and my past problems seem pretty silly and I wish I knew then what I know now, would've saved me many headaches.

Ultimately, if a very experienced windows user installs Ubuntu on hardware that will have known issues and solutions the experience will be the same as if you gave a Windows OR Ubuntu box to a completely inexperienced person and ask them to figure out their problems.

It requires patience to learn something new, something that frankly maaannnyyy people don't have. The desire to learn, as I see it, seems to fade away for many past their teen years. Sad really, no wonder why so many adults grow up with a child like mentality and inability to think outside of their comfort zone.

[Shibblet]

It requires patience to learn something new, something that frankly maaannnyyy people don't have. The desire to learn, as I see it, seems to fade away for many past their teen years. Sad really, no wonder why so many adults grow up with a child like mentality and inability to think outside of their comfort zone.

To the point of frustration and anger.

I work in an electronics store, and trying to explain to people over the age of, say 40ish, what the "Input" button does on their television is like having a good heart-to-heart chat with your dog about pooping in the living room.

We make these connections at a younger age, and we determine, self-evidently, what we will be interested in. If computers isn't one of those things, then the person doesn't care to learn. It's not important to them, so why bother? Same reason I don't change my own oil. And I'm not willing to learn how.

I am, however, willing to learn how to operate Ubuntu.

[schauerlich]

New releases tend to have bugs in them. As more people use them and more bugs are discovered and patched, they tend to get more stable.

</this category of threads>

[timsdeepsky]

One thing about it,,,,Windows gave me more problems than Ubuntu ever did....
Live and learn....My Ubuntu flies like an Eagle....I have learned a lot about Ubuntu over the last 4 distributions....Setting it up is fairly simple for me now....

[superskateman]

Some undermarket Ubuntu ("Ubuntu is just for geeks. It will always be for only geeks. It sucks. No one could possible get this piece of crap to work.")
I hear you. On another forum I go to, which I won't name, we have 2 Ubuntu users of 216: me and someone named Cowfish, or Terry. We are the 2 "computer geeks" of the place. So one of the people, when we said to try it, thought, "Only the computer geeks use it. It must be hard to use." I couldn't get my rebuttal out faster.

Yes there are bugs, and although I have only used Ubuntu for a couple months (and on VirtualBox, I don't have a computer of my own to install it on), most computer software distro-people do get those patches out in a month or two.

[seenthelite]

To the point of frustration and anger.

I work in an electronics store, and trying to explain to people over the age of, say 40ish, what the "Input" button does on their television is like having a good heart-to-heart chat with your dog about pooping in the living room.

We make these connections at a younger age, and we determine, self-evidently, what we will be interested in. If computers isn't one of those things, then the person doesn't care to learn. It's not important to them, so why bother? Same reason I don't change my own oil. And I'm not willing to learn how.

I am, however, willing to learn how to operate Ubuntu.

I am 60ish and I am learning how to operate Ubuntu and I installed 9.10 on my computer with no problems at all. I am wondering how old you were when Windows released Windows 95.

[XubuRoxMySox]

I think they ought to adopt an "it'll be ready when it's ready" instead of committing to a release every 6 months no matter what, but that's just the opinion of one little n00b who doesn't know the half of what it takes to make and release an awesome distro like this.

Maybe the best thing to do is wait for a month or two after a new release before upgrading (or better yet, re-installing).

I'll pro'lly stick to long-term releases for the most part from now on just because of all the stuff I've read in these forums when Jaunty was released, and again when Karmic was released. Once a LTS becomes stable it remains rock-stable and fully supported for two years. People who hate upgrades should stick to the LTS releases, or maybe try a rolling-release distro.

So far I'm loving my Karmic.

-Robin

[Shibblet]

I think they ought to adopt an "it'll be ready when it's ready" instead of committing to a release every 6 months no matter what, but that's just the opinion of one little n00b who doesn't know the half of what it takes to make and release an awesome distro like this.

That's a great idea, but unfortunately impractical. There are too many different types of hardware out there to test before a full release. However, if there was a beta release that lasted longer than 2 months, that'd be better. Give people a chance to test it on their computer and find any bugs.


Maybe the best thing to do is wait for a month or two after a new release before upgrading (or better yet, re-installing).

Now that, I'd completely agree with. Since 10.04 Lucid is going to be the next long term release, take the time needed.


I'll pro'lly stick to long-term releases for the most part from now on just because of all the stuff I've read in these forums when Jaunty was released, and again when Karmic was released. Once a LTS becomes stable it remains rock-stable and fully supported for two years. People who hate upgrades should stick to the LTS releases, or maybe try a rolling-release distro.

So far I'm loving my Karmic.

Karmic is not a long term release. ;)

-Robin[/QUOTE]

[sledge73]

I have to say I am sick of the bad mouthing of 9.10. I have been using Ubuntu for a few years and every time a new release comes out there are lots of issues. In a month or 2 they get most of them worked out. If 9.10 dose not work, and 9.04 did step back to 9.04. I am lucky in that every machine I have put 9.10 on worked. I am also not a fan of upgrading, doing a clean install works best for me. I did try the upgrade on two machines and both filed to work. I did a clean install on those machines with great success.

To be honest I do have a bit of an issue with FireFox. It is slow, and the scroll sucks. I have not given up on 9.10 I am just hanging in there till some one has a fix for it.

As I see it M$ has issues out of the gate with new products, and they have a ton of money behind them, and people don't leave them when things go wrong. They do roll back, so should you if you have a problem with 9.10.

Hey think of it this way its free, ether way 9.10 or 9.04.

Another story I wan to share is I was a Kubuntu fan loved it and was so happy, till the new KDE came out. For me it did not work, and I thought it sucked. So what did I do? I tried to fix it using the forums, but was not getting there. I went back to the older version. I was using Ubuntu on a work machine, and thought Gnome was so easy why not make the switch. I did and I have been even happier.

So I ask report your issues, in a manner that is respectful, and I am sure there will be some one with a fix or a work around. Bashing 9.10 is going to be met with bashing the basher. In time 9.10 will be great this I am sure of.

Noel


100% agree!!!!!

[Shibblet]

I have to say I am sick of the bad mouthing of 9.10.

Were we bad mouthing Ubuntu?