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lindix
November 5th, 2009, 10:35 AM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

mihaidoru
November 5th, 2009, 10:41 AM
I don't have any statistics, all I know is my experience.
And with each version of Ubuntu it gets better.
With this version, for example, I am happy that it boots faster, the sound seems better and Skype works out of the box.

Of course I had issues in the past, but the overall experience is positive.

As I develop software, I know that there are sometimes regression issues in integrating the work of developers. Compared to this, integrating all the apps in an OS is a lot harder and the overall result I think is impressive.

kixome
November 5th, 2009, 10:42 AM
how very GD true! the forums make it look worse!

The Funkbomb
November 5th, 2009, 10:49 AM
It's been 1 week since release. Calm down.

If you want a better product, take the plunge and beta test lucid lynx when it gets released for testing. That's what I plan on doing.

You have three options. Don't use Ubuntu, whine and complain about what they give you or be part of the solution. I plan on being part of the solution.

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 10:56 AM
It's been 1 week since release. Calm down.

If you want a better product, take the plunge and beta test lucid lynx when it gets released for testing. That's what I plan on doing.

You have three options. Don't use Ubuntu, whine and complain about what they give you or be part of the solution. I plan on being part of the solution.

Calm down to your sister! We can't lose users in a time when Linux really needed to shine.

The Funkbomb
November 5th, 2009, 10:57 AM
Calm down to your sister! We can't lose users in a time when Linux really needed to shine.

Were you one of the beta testers?

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Were you one of the beta testers?

yes and I'll be again in december!

Arup
November 5th, 2009, 11:00 AM
Why bother upgrading when you have legit LTS. Upgrades will bring grief in any OS, that shouldn't stop progress or Ubuntu thankfully.

note32
November 5th, 2009, 11:04 AM
wow you need to get your facts straight ubuntu does not give linux a bad name every distro has its ups and down and its only the first week its been released, and if you don't like 9.10 don't use it, it is as simple as that god, im sick of people bashing on 9.10....


and yes ill also be testing in december

efexD
November 5th, 2009, 11:06 AM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain. Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.

ndefontenay
November 5th, 2009, 11:10 AM
Quite tired of all these threads as well. It's only released a week ago. We've had 2 updates already.

How faster could it be? Wait a tad longer if you're not happy with it. It will get only better. I've seen a lot of improvements personally.

sliketymo
November 5th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!


Ubunta does in fact create a quality,Free to use,Free to distribute, Free to tweak, Free modify, Free to share,Free to competely trash,and re-install,and above all explore!For many users,including myself,it is a Godsend! Freedom from license fees,anti-virus fees,and being able to install a single copy on as many machines as you want!A good many users have no problem configuring their own unique environment using a seemingly never ending variety of software,generally a "sudo" away!The anticipation of the next release,and testing cycle is one of the attractions for many users!If 20% of users can't install it,that means 80% CAN! I like them odds!Explore,share,and above all enjoy!You may just learn something!

pastalavista
November 5th, 2009, 11:15 AM
Did you try the live CD before you installed it? Did you back-up all your data?

When Ubuntu breaks something, there are ways to fix it. When Windows breaks something, all you can do is buy new hardware or re-install.

It's people who don't know how to use it that make it look bad. All software has bugs occasionally. When you change a system that is working for one that is untested, you should expect a learning curve. Windows assumes you're stupid. Ubuntu gives you a little more credit.

The Funkbomb
November 5th, 2009, 11:21 AM
Look, some problems need to be fixed. Everyone knows this. There is a risk when you upgrade soon after a release. Some people are unwilling to take responsibility for the risk that they chose to take.

Now, I do feel badly for the people who tried 9.10 as their first install and it didn't work out for them. That's just bad luck that they finally got the nerve up during the 9.10 release. Yeah, that does make things look bad.

The only thing I can suggest is for people to get involved. More testers with different hardware configurations will help weed problems out.

I was upset when my 9.10 upgrade didn't go so well but I am to blame for that. I didn't appreciate the risks. I wasn't involved in the beta testing. No longer. As a result, I am getting more involved in the community.

If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

NickJones
November 5th, 2009, 11:22 AM
If you put in the time & have even the slightest bit of brains, you should be able to get it working, slamming it won't help you, there are thousands of users here who love Ubuntu. Care to tell us why it doesn't work?

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 11:22 AM
Did you try the live CD before you installed it? Did you back-up all your data?

When Ubuntu breaks something, there are ways to fix it. When Windows breaks something, all you can do is buy new hardware or re-install.

It's people who don't know how to use it that make it look bad. All software has bugs occasionally. When you change a system that is working for one that is untested, you should expect a learning curve. Windows assumes you're stupid. Ubuntu gives you a little more credit.

I'm ok and Iĺl never use Windows.But hurt me seeing people leaving linux.

JOHNNYG713
November 5th, 2009, 11:25 AM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain. Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.


AMEN Brother !!!

konqueror7
November 5th, 2009, 11:28 AM
perfectly placed in the 'Absolute Beginner Talk'...

linuxbastard
November 5th, 2009, 11:35 AM
I was on Windows and RH for a while, then some other distros and windows and then found Ubuntu. I've been hopping around like crazy from one upgrade to another making everything work like I want it to then having to change it a few months later. I've bled, I've gone on for hours without food,I've gone crazy reading all the rants and what-not just to find a clue as to why something isn't working.

But I'm still here and I know a few things I didn't know about computers a few years back. It's frustrating work but when you find a solution it just feels great, and when you know that a solution you find helps someone else, even someone who is not even on Ubuntu, it's really awesome. Ubuntu may not be perfect, YET :D, but I'm sticking around not just because it's free, OK, maybe mostly because it's free, but also because I'm part of a community that said to hell with having things shoved down your throat whether you want to or not, we'll eat dirt now and then but we'll decide how much and whether we want manure with it or not. ):P

**wipes tears from keyboard keys**:lolflag:

Zoot7
November 5th, 2009, 11:37 AM
IMO Ubuntu has done wonders for Linux, it's proved it can introduce Linux to even the most technologically illiterate people. My parents (whom I've both set up with Hardy are a prime example).

Issues around release go with every OS. Look at the Windows 7 issues at the moment; endless reboots among others. Remember Vista or XP when they first came out? Neither were pretty. Vista was my worst experience ever with a Microsoft OS in the first month of it's release. And the recent Snow Leopard problems, deleting all the users data etc.
So don't expect Ubuntu to work perfectly on 100% of the Hardware out there a week after release. Upgrading an OS in it's infancy is asking for trouble.
I am of the opinion that the 6 month release cycle is a bit aggressive, so I'm always very cautious around the time of a release. Nor would I recommend anyone run off doing so straight away unless they're prepared for problems.

As has been said countless times before, if you want stability stick with the LTS releases. In my experience Hardy has without doubt been the most stable OS I've ever used.

t.rei
November 5th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Ubuntu makes linux look easy as pie! Honestly, karmic is great, the regressions are there but few.

Remember: why go to a forum, if you have no problems? (Unless you are one of those who like to help and/or contribute ;) )

So of all those postings here about trouble, about half of them are dublicates and the other ones are often full of advice and help. Something that still amazes me is how much help you get in ubuntuforums even if you aren't using ubuntu at all. Mostly without bias.

So, if you have trouble, check if there are threads and answers, if there aren't post a thread and maybe you can actually help making things better: well discussed problems with workarounds or even fixes do help alot!

note32
November 5th, 2009, 11:41 AM
And I'm sick of people like you, who doesn't care about linux! "Ok works for me!F*** the rest. " I think Linus T. will kick your *** if he will hear you.

duh:mad: do even think before you post...... i do care about linux thats why im standing up for it and not putting it down and giving it a bad name and your gonna tell me i dont care? yea ok... and everyone is trying to help people out the best they can considering its still new and problems will happen and thats how its always been, and then after while there will solutions to those problems and updates to fix them and and lts is in the making....

MelDJ
November 5th, 2009, 11:41 AM
The problem of LINUX is people LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!

relax. no need for the exclamation signs. if you have a problem, just ask. if 20 % of the people could not install ubuntu, they would have asked. thats why this forums was made. to help out and people and answer their questions.

and be a bit polite?

i do think this belongs in community cafe- recurring discussions though

seenthelite
November 5th, 2009, 11:43 AM
I am new to Ubuntu and had a positive experience with 9.04 and again now with 9.10 I have been using this forum to expand my knowledge of Linux and Ubuntu and I must say I learn't nothing from this thread.

Arup
November 5th, 2009, 11:43 AM
If you really care, improve it, no matter what you say, its Ubuntu thats putting Linux on desktop world. Rest of the distros made it extremely unfriendly for a noob. Thanks to effort of Shuttleworth and others working on Ubuntu, we have a distro one can easily recommend to Windows refugees.

The Funkbomb
November 5th, 2009, 11:45 AM
If you really care, improve it, no matter what you say, its Ubuntu thats putting Linux on desktop world. Rest of the distros made it extremely unfriendly for a noob. Thanks to effort of Shuttleworth and others working on Ubuntu, we have a distro one can easily recommend to Windows refugees.

Agreed. After a botched OpenSuse install years ago, I swore off linux. Ubuntu opened doors for me.

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 11:48 AM
relax. no need for the exclamation signs. if you have a problem, just ask. if 20 % of the people could not install linux, they would have asked. thats why this forums was made. to help out and people and answer their questions.

and be a bit polite?

i do think this belongs in community cafe- recurring discussions though

"If you don't like leave!" "It's free!" Sorry but I'll never relax! Nobody tells nobody to leave linux!

NickJones
November 5th, 2009, 11:49 AM
The problem of LINUX is people LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!
The fact is, you have had 15 posts, all of which have been slandering Linux, but you never said what your problem was. Ubuntu is a great OS, and I have faith that it will become a major contender in the OS wars. People like you however slander it and you might not even know how to boot off a CD, a problem easily fixed. Why are you posting angry things? You haven't achieved anything other than annoy a whole pile of really smart computer people, who would be happy to help you. So if you don't like it ):P.

konqueror7
November 5th, 2009, 11:49 AM
The problem of LINUX is people LIKE YOU!!!!!!!!!

oh, i'm the problem? look at yourself. ranting about ubuntu making linux look bad, if it weren't for ubuntu you wouldn't even be here in the forums, linux wouldn't have been another choice for normal users. ubuntu has made alot to the linux community, only people like you make it worst, ranting about something that has no point and no basis. be grateful to ubuntu you dumba$$

Zoot7
November 5th, 2009, 11:50 AM
After a botched OpenSuse install years ago, I swore off linux. Ubuntu opened doors for me.
Ditto. Except my experience was with Gentoo, sort of threw myself in the deep end pretty early.

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 11:52 AM
So if you don't like it ):P.

"Very well!Great job!" Are you working for Microsoft?

Harshana
November 5th, 2009, 11:53 AM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain. Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.

I do agree.It is 1000 times better than windows and it is free.
We are out of the box(windows) now as ubuntu and it gave Free CD when when we didn't have internet very offenly.We are here in linux world - even though in the bottem - Becouse of UBUNTU.
So i think we should gladly be good enough to patient and help them to carry on this.........
:p

MelDJ
November 5th, 2009, 11:54 AM
i think you are missing the point.

if you like to eat chicken, you dont go and buy a fish and expect it to taste like chicken. if you want to eat chicken, you get a chicken and eat it. some people prefer chicken and others prefer fish.

its the same as software. you cant expect ubuntu to be the super OS to meet all your needs. and you cannot and should not force and OS on someone just because you like it and it works great for you. Everyone has his or her preferences and not everyone do the same thing for computers. so ubuntu might not suit the, and maybe BSD or windows would. So they should just use the OS which is most appropriate for THEIR needs.

NickJones
November 5th, 2009, 11:54 AM
"Very well!Great job!" Are you working for Microsoft?

HES WORKING FOR MICROSOFT AND TRYING TO SLANDER OR FINE OS TO BOOST WINDOWS 7 SALES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Can you say CONSPIRACY!

note32
November 5th, 2009, 11:55 AM
"Very well!Great job!" Are you working for Microsoft?

no but you sure seem like it......

note32
November 5th, 2009, 11:56 AM
HES WORKING FOR MICROSOFT AND TRYING TO SLANDER OR FINE OS TO BOOST WINDOWS 7 SALES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o
Can you say CONSPIRACY!

:lolflag:

MelDJ
November 5th, 2009, 11:57 AM
"Very well!Great job!" Are you working for Microsoft?

hm.. i dont know your intention of making this thread. i thought we can debate civilly.
but i might be wrong. because you did not even say what is your problem with ubuntu.
and you have resorted to name calling which i find childish.

please, calm down. ;)

Grez
November 5th, 2009, 11:57 AM
I started with Ubuntu when I finally had to change my computer last August and got so frustrated with Vista's constant nagging, unplanned rebooting, crashing and trashing access to files on my USB external HDD that I needed to find something "grown up" that would operate my computer and my hardware.

Ubuntu Hardy gave me that. at home on my main PC I still use that. I now have Jaunty at work and on my other PC at home and will be upgrading when I have the time.

Believe me, the teething troubles with Ubuntu are nothing compared with those that come from any new release of Windows. But we have a choice here. If you want to pay to use a buggy, unstable, insecure, virus-susceptible OS then Windows is your man. Using this, I forget about having to PAY and having no SAY; I forget that most of your computing power is spent trying to stop evil little oiks fouling up my system with malware. That is, until I enter the Windows domain again.

Currently, at work, I am the only one who is using Linux - all the other computers are running "good old" windows XP pro. I can't customise my user area, put up any eye candy, or even download and install Firefox because the powers that be don't want us trashing the machines. Yet my box operates faster, looks nicer works better and is more customisable than the equivalent XP boxes.

Linux looks bad? Don't think so.

Zoot7
November 5th, 2009, 12:02 PM
@OP

If you don't like Ubuntu then use something else and move on. There's no need for threads like this, they do nobody any good.

101011010010
November 5th, 2009, 12:05 PM
+1

seenthelite
November 5th, 2009, 12:06 PM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

You have got our attention so tell us what the problem really is maybe we can help.

reintl
November 5th, 2009, 12:07 PM
When Ubuntu breaks something, there are ways to fix it. When Windows breaks something, all you can do is buy new hardware or re-install.


I could not agree more.

I decided to use Ubuntu 9.10, just because of that reason and for the support of the latest hardware, or ways to get it working.

After a Windows BSOD due to bad sectors on a heavily used HD under Vista as host of my virtual machines I decided to go for a stable OS. Last version of Ubuntu I tried was 5.x, I had to skip it for incompatibility issues and use RedHat instead for business applications support. 11 years of RH experience makes me feel a little more comfortable with Fedora 11....but I will catch up.

After 5 days of installing I got Dual Boot with GRUB 2 from Ubuntu working...and that all because of lack of personal knowledge...meaning reading..reading...reading...
Dual Boot problems with GRUB 2 is one of the things which got many hits, not because it does not work, but because users first install, find themselves 'out of data' and want a quick remedy without studying the new concept. These are the ones who shout "broken"...
At the moment I have one issue which makes life little bit more complicated and that is the cifs problem, but I expect it will start to work again 'soon'.
I think Fedora 11 (2.6.29..) has the same issue, but CentOS 5.4 and RHEL 5.4 (2.6.18..) do work, so it is not only Ubuntu ;)

-bye for now
Reint

bowens44
November 5th, 2009, 12:08 PM
20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

Really? Where did you get this number? How do you know how any users there are and how many have not been able to install?

Trebaruna
November 5th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products!
No.

They don't owe you squat. You are free to download the software, but it comes with the GNU General Public License, which states --amongst other things--


This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. See the
GNU General Public License for more details.
I understand that not every piece of software in Ubuntu is covered by GPL, but this particular clause is pretty universal.
Seriously, if you want someone you can rightly yell at and make things better for you, you're probably better off with a for-pay operating system. Try Red Hat Enterprise, Mac OS or perhaps Microsoft Windows. You give them money and they owe you.

It's not that we don't want you, it's that your expectations are not aligned with what is offered.

jmore9
November 5th, 2009, 12:11 PM
I have been using Ubuntu since it first started, off and on. Every release is getting better and better. You should get a copy of the original Ubuntu release and compare that with 9.10.

Or get a copy of suse 9 and compare that with suse 11.1

I am currently running one machine with 9.10 abd another with winxp pro.

As far as usability goes the only thing i cannot do with Ubuntu is run the ATI tv wondwe 650 pci tv tuner card. I have a Pinnacle 800i in the linux machine which works like it should.

As has been said earlier posts Ubuntu is not windows ! If you like windows then use windows , but you should not believe that Ubuntu or linux is no good because you are expecting a Microsoft windows OS and you install something else.

Zoot7
November 5th, 2009, 12:12 PM
I love linux and I like ubuntu but I don't like people like you who tell me to move on. UBUNTU, PLEASE FIGHT FOR EVERY SINGLE USER!
Right okay... if you've a problem post it and we'll all do our best to help you.

Alas, I've said enough in this thread, I think it'd do well for someone to close it.

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 12:17 PM
No.

.. you're probably better off with a for-pay operating system. Try Red Hat Enterprise, Mac OS or perhaps Microsoft Windows. You give them money and they owe you.
Very well!Good job!...another Microsoft employee. You love soo much linux ...Right?

overdrank
November 5th, 2009, 12:19 PM
Moved to cafe

tarps87
November 5th, 2009, 12:22 PM
@lindix How many bugs have you helped fix? You can go on slating different distributions but it will not help anyone.
Although Ubuntu has downsides most of these are due to it being 'new user friendly' in which it succeeds.
As people have said if you don't like it you have two choices

Change you distro/os
Help fix it

As for not caring why do you think most of us are here helping others.

lindix
November 5th, 2009, 12:29 PM
@lindix How many bugs have you helped fix? You can go on slating different distributions but it will not help anyone.
Although Ubuntu has downsides most of these are due to it being 'new user friendly' in which it succeeds.
As people have said if you don't like it you have two choices

Change you distro/os
Help fix it

As for not caring why do you think most of us are here helping others.

Now I'm trying to fix a big bug. Users who tells users to leave.

tarps87
November 5th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Now I'm trying to fix a big bug. Users who tells users to leave.

I think you miss understand the definition of free, why for a user to use a Linux based distro if it is not right for them?
I as user complains they can run windows compiled programs I will suggest that they use windows, the same if they do not like the way it behaves.
Anyway I answer to your original question, no I don't think it makes Linux look bad, after all Linux is the kernel not the bits on top

wilee-nilee
November 5th, 2009, 01:23 PM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

rotfl@U

brydonhunter
November 5th, 2009, 01:35 PM
I have always been one of the lucky ones and only have the smallest of issues which normally take very little time to resolve. Installing and using 9.10 up to this point has been great.

The question that I have is do we really need a new release every 6 months. Let's make it once a year and allow the developers the time they need to really lock down the version.

Just my 2 cents :D

XubuRoxMySox
November 5th, 2009, 01:47 PM
I have been very lucky too. Karmic is the best yet for me, and it fixed a video problem I had sort of given up on.

Tinker with it a little! Try swapping a program you don't like for another and see if it works better. Like k3b in place of Brasero for me, wicd in place of the Gnome network manager (just works better for me - your mileage may vary), stuff like that. I even found a whole set of cool HP stuff for my HP printer/scanner/copier thingy. Just experiment and play around with it. Even for a total non-geeky simpleton like me it's been kinda fun.

Ubuntu's efforts to "be all things to all users" is maybe one of the reasons it frustrates some people (and why people say it's "bloated"), but it's so customizable and tweakable, and so easy to fix (re-install) even if you totally bork something.

I love my 'buntu.

-Robin

maflynn
November 5th, 2009, 01:53 PM
Lindix,
first off you seem a wrapped a little too tight. If Linux doesn't suit someone's need, then it makes perfect sense to leave. Second, don't take things personal, its only an operating system, not a religion.

Finally, I found 9.10 to be boring, not a huge update, not a downgrade, fairly stable - is that so horrific in an operating system upgrade? btw, the same complaints are found in OSX 10.6 (not much in consumer level changes), lots of whining such as what you're doing etc.

As others have said, if you don't think Ubuntu is going in the right direction, either get involved, or use another distro.

I use Linux because it gets the job done for me. The day it stops, I'll use another tool, simple as that.

hoppipolla
November 5th, 2009, 02:22 PM
to be fair though it does have at least 3 brand new features all related to boot-up (new GRUB, xsplash, new GDM). We should cut Karmic some slack and wait for Lucid (the LTS! ^_^ )

TenPlus1
November 5th, 2009, 02:25 PM
The new Ubuntu has worked great so far, not just for myself but for the other two systems I've installed it on (xubuntu as well)... No major problems came up and the only niggles were setting up a microphone and downloading nvidia drivers that dont come with the cd...

Thanks Canonical, Ubuntu Devs & linux peeps around the world...

sledge73
November 5th, 2009, 03:30 PM
Here's my take on the release cycle & the release in question: If 9.10 dosen't work for you there is or was a release that worked for you why not use that! The need to bash a current release cause it wont work for me has to stop.

My friend that turned me on to linux 2 years ago has had problems using karmic & collectively we tried everything to make it work on his computer to no avail. We didn't come to the forum bitching about how this sucks cause it won't work with this configuration, no we went & redownloaded 8.04 & installed that & it worked perfectly.

There is always an alternative there's no reason to abandon ship on ubuntu cause you cant use the latest greatest release that's what the LTS is for.

If the latest release don't work use the release that does & add the new features that you like! It's as simple as that!

Thank you for your time.

forrestcupp
November 5th, 2009, 03:30 PM
20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

Since we're making up statistics, I'll bet about 40% of users can't install Windows 7, so they have to stick with XP. Most people who want Windows 7 will have to buy a new computer.

Why should Linux be any different than the rest of the computing world when it comes to advancement of technology? The fact that people think they should be able to install Linux's latest and greatest on a 20 year old computer is one of the things that holds Linux back.

Another thing is that people are always trying to use hardware that is known to be problematic. Look at Mac; you're only allowed to run MacOS X on hardware that is made for Macs.

The Real Dave
November 5th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users.

Working fine out of the box for me.....

And mate, its only just out, its not gonna be perfect. 9.04 wasn't, 9.10 isn't 10.04 won't be. Thats just how it is. Give it a month or so, a lot of things will have been worked out.

HappyFeet
November 5th, 2009, 05:11 PM
If you aren't part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

Hey, that's my line! But it's true.

Tristam Green
November 5th, 2009, 05:15 PM
Man, this has been an entertaining read on all fronts.

What's the expression about not feeding them?

PRC09
November 5th, 2009, 05:30 PM
Personally Ubuntu has been awsome on all my machines since 8.04,it all just works.I pre-ordered Win 7 Upgrade last spring for cheap and it wont run on anything that I have.Compatability issues with sound cards,video cards and the deal breaker was my printer,so I guess its a new computer for Christmas......I just dont understand the people that try and force the newest software on the same old gear...That is the reason for the live cd or at least thats what I thought.If it works live then it usually works installed.I get a kick out of all the I dont have wireless or no sound.or broken video posts.Did you try it first!!!!!

blur xc
November 5th, 2009, 05:32 PM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain. Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.


ditto

BM

blur xc
November 5th, 2009, 05:35 PM
how very GD true! the forums make it look worse!

hmm... check out a Win 7 forum. The atmosphere looks exactly the same.

99% of people only post when they have a problem.

BM

M!K3_$
November 5th, 2009, 05:36 PM
I don't have any statistics, all I know is my experience.
And with each version of Ubuntu it gets better.
With this version, for example, I am happy that it boots faster, the sound seems better and Skype works out of the box.

Of course I had issues in the past, but the overall experience is positive.

As I develop software, I know that there are sometimes regression issues in integrating the work of developers. Compared to this, integrating all the apps in an OS is a lot harder and the overall result I think is impressive.

i agree, i have had no problems so far. if you don't like this version, just go back to the last version and wait another 6 months.

betrunkenaffe
November 5th, 2009, 05:38 PM
http://www.zagura.ro/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/god-kills-kitten-troll.jpg

Thank you.

kyuubi777
November 5th, 2009, 05:40 PM
you hate it, don't use it... i am bewildered why anyone would decide that the proper thing to do when you find yourself unable to like this product would be to post on a forum stating your hatred for it.. this is designed to help the distro's.. so if you are not willing to offer any information which might help in the development of solutions, then just waddle on back to windows-ville : price of entry $350.. and then another %50 for your bodyguard virus buddy....
i personally don't think anyone has the right to complain about freeware... yes, software because you put an investment in it ....

same here, no problems whatsoever ..other than a minor sound issue which was fixed in a matter of minutes after searching this forum! love you guys!!

jrusso2
November 5th, 2009, 05:43 PM
http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html

tuahaa
November 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM
look, this happens. By one month most of the bugs will be fixed. Why didn't you stay with 9.04? I use Linux Mint, which is based on Ubuntu and the new Linux Mint (based on 9.10) is being released in about a month so it will arrive bugless, thanks to the hard work of ubuntu's staff.

Penguin Guy
November 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM
If you submit a bug report for each of your problems they'll be fixed pretty soon. The more people who think this way, the quicker the bugs will be fixed.

ukripper
November 5th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

Problem lies in your perception! Where that 20% even come from??You really need to put your act straight and stop spreading this kinda BS.

Swagman
November 5th, 2009, 05:57 PM
The downside of our userbase growing is the extra amount of Cry Babies that climb aboard then find they've left their dummies/pacifiers elsewhere !!

Waaaaaaaaaah...Waaaaaaaaaaaaaah !!

mikewhatever
November 5th, 2009, 06:08 PM
Stop feeding the troll.

Eddie Wilson
November 5th, 2009, 06:47 PM
http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html

The man is not very well liked. He's done some articles on DistroWatch that was not very well received either. Reviews and reviewers cannot be trusted. Maybe someone should do reviews on reviewers. Also just for the record, I've not had any major problems with 9.10 and I've installed it on several computers.

maflynn
November 5th, 2009, 06:53 PM
http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html
Regardless of what you think of the author or the article, he certainly makes sense.

I'd have to agree with 90% of what he's written. Why bother adding new features when the old non-functioning features should be addressed. People lambaste MS and apple for the similar transgressions, why should ubuntu be immune

(don's flame retardant suit)

[flame on]

blur xc
November 5th, 2009, 07:37 PM
Regardless of what you think of the author or the article, he certainly makes sense.

I'd have to agree with 90% of what he's written. Why bother adding new features when the old non-functioning features should be addressed. People lambaste MS and apple for the similar transgressions, why should ubuntu be immune

(don's flame retardant suit)

[flame on]

That practice is true for any software company, that I've seen. I use 3D parametric CAD modeling software- Pro E, Solidworks, Autodesk Inventor, Mechanical Desktop from way back, and every release added new features that probably only 5% of people made use of, but a seemingly simple error that is essential for the proper creation of engineering drawings gets overlooked, release after release. In my industry, work-a-rounds are a standard practice. In the end, features sell more product, not stability or usability. Sad.

BM

JDShu
November 5th, 2009, 07:38 PM
You can't fix the bugs you haven't found >.>

SunnyRabbiera
November 5th, 2009, 08:14 PM
Beta testers are what all OS's need, maybe for Lucid we should seriously beta test.
Its called virtualbox

kevdog
November 5th, 2009, 08:15 PM
Why do I waste me time responding to these types of threads? I have no idea:confused:

liquidbee
November 5th, 2009, 08:21 PM
Fanboys .. Ubuntu have screwed things up - no one can deny it.

praveesh
November 5th, 2009, 08:23 PM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain. Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.

<Iam not going to bash Ubuntu>
Then who will replace a good quality product with a low quality product even if the low quality product is free

maflynn
November 5th, 2009, 08:24 PM
That practice is true for any software company

Agreed but i think the point for the author of that article is that Linux and ubuntu is being "marketed" as a stable, viable alternative to windows/osx. That message takes a hit when ubuntu releases an upgrade with great fanfare but then people find more things broken then fixed (a gross over simplification).

OSX has distinguished itself from windows by focusing on fixing/improving the OS rather then blindly adding features. I think canonical should not focus so much attention on boot times and new login screens but rather correcting the features that don't work well or don't work at all.

Canonical cannot out microsoft microsoft so they need to compete on providing a more stable and more usable system. Adding features without really addressing some of the nagging bugs and problems isn't helping matters

visionaire
November 5th, 2009, 08:38 PM
Well, it run OOTB in my Sony vaio, opensuse nor intrepid did that, so i'm impressed =)

SunnyRabbiera
November 5th, 2009, 08:48 PM
Fanboys .. Ubuntu have screwed things up - no one can deny it.

Feh, I can as Karmic works fine here

liquidbee
November 5th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Feh, I can as Karmic works fine here

It works for me as well but it doesn't change the overall situation ( every second user now have something to complain about and it's not because they have nothing better to do ).

SunnyRabbiera
November 5th, 2009, 09:18 PM
It works for me as well but it doesn't change the overall situation ( every second user now have something to complain about and it's not because they have nothing better to do ).

Well other OS's dont seem to fare much better right now either, windows 7 certainly has its issues.

Luke has no name
November 5th, 2009, 09:27 PM
OP is less than 15 years old, or a skilled troll.

usafwings
November 5th, 2009, 09:45 PM
Well, for what it's worth, I am a new user because I was impressed with Karmic. Every OS has its problems, and its upsides. For me, the LiveCD thing impressed the crap outta me. Anyways, I'm in the learning stage, installed it to my HDD today, and my USB Wireless adapter works OUT OF THE BOX? Are you SERIOUS?

Keep it comin' and I'll be learning and drinking the cups. ):P

pwnst*r
November 5th, 2009, 09:54 PM
If you want a better product, take the plunge and beta test lucid lynx when it gets released for testing. That's what I plan on doing.



lol

koenn
November 5th, 2009, 10:21 PM
... fixing/improving the OS rather then blindly adding features. I think canonical should not focus so much attention on boot times and new login screens but rather correcting the features that don't work well or don't work at all.

Canonical cannot out microsoft microsoft so they need to compete on providing a more stable and more usable system. Adding features without really addressing some of the nagging bugs and problems isn't helping matters

True (although the "statistics" in the OP and probably some other posts are not exactly accurate ...),

but if Canonical does a release with less new features, eye candy etc but focuses on the underlying system (invisible to 90% of the users), you get the exact same outrage threads about "what's the point in doing a release if it has nothing new !!!! Ubuntu is falling behind !!!! Bllah blah blah !!! "

Believe me, I've seen it.

bonfire89
November 5th, 2009, 10:25 PM
oh shush yourself


:)

ssri
November 5th, 2009, 10:44 PM
well, some of the complaints echoed here are spilling out into the press. Not what Canonical needs at this point.

http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/iandouglas/100004124/bad-karma-for-linux-koalas/

and that article from independent

lykwydchykyn
November 5th, 2009, 11:26 PM
True (although the "statistics" in the OP and probably some other posts are not exactly accurate ...),

but if Canonical does a release with less new features, eye candy etc but focuses on the underlying system (invisible to 90% of the users), you get the exact same outrage threads about "what's the point in doing a release if it has nothing new !!!! Ubuntu is falling behind !!!! Bllah blah blah !!! "

Believe me, I've seen it.

I agree.

On top of that, it's not always as clear-cut as "add features, or fix problems". Think about what Ubuntu does; they package software from upstream sources and bundle it together into an OS. Sure, bugs can crop up in your packaging, or configuration; but by-and-large bugs happen in upstream because that's where the bulk of the work is done.

So what happens when upstream releases a new release that contains bugfixes and features in one release? Should Ubuntu backport only the bugfixes, or just move to the new upstream release? Which approach would introduce fewer bugs into the code Ubuntu distributes?

What happens when an upstream project dies and stops receiving bugfixes at all? Should they stick to a paritially broken release with no future, or switch to another alternative that has a future (and thus will get bug fixes), even though it may not have feature parity with the old software?

mikewhatever
November 5th, 2009, 11:45 PM
It works for me as well but it doesn't change the overall situation ( every second user now have something to complain about and it's not because they have nothing better to do ).

Every second, or every twenty second, or every one hundred and second. In short, there is no way of reliably telling how many have problems. Keep in mind the help and support nature of these forums, people end up posting here because they have problems, Community Cafe regulars apart, and not because everything works. If you want to compare, visit a Windows or OSX help and support forum.

maflynn
November 6th, 2009, 02:41 AM
True (although the "statistics" in the OP and probably some other posts are not exactly accurate ...),

but if Canonical does a release with less new features, eye candy etc but focuses on the underlying system (invisible to 90% of the users), you get the exact same outrage threads about "what's the point in doing a release if it has nothing new !!!! Ubuntu is falling behind !!!! Bllah blah blah !!! "

Believe me, I've seen it.

Yeah, I can see that happening, while I referenced OSX as a good example, just look at the amount of whining that has occurred with Snow Leopard. Not much in terms of user/consumer features but a ton of work under the hood. People are complaining/whining about it, so i guess you're right.

I still stand by my point that the canonical needs to focus on fixing what doesn't work rather then throw in eye candy at this point. Keep adding stuff w/o fixing the other things will get them no where.

Lightstar
November 6th, 2009, 02:59 AM
No problem with karmic here.

The only problems I have are the same with most distributions, it's the bad sound system.

winjeel
November 6th, 2009, 06:36 AM
well, some of the complaints echoed here are spilling out into the press. Not what Canonical needs at this point.

http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/iandouglas/100004124/bad-karma-for-linux-koalas/

and that article from independent

As others have said, Windows has it's problems, but with the most specific and dire problems with Windows, are they reported? I've only heard of the internet rumours of the MS spyware that came prepackaged with Windows ME. There are small town newspapers where McDonalds pays quite a sum of money for advertising in them. And so with the threat of industrial action, unfair conditions, poor management decisions, layoffs of staff when they turn legal age, and so on, the local McDonalds threatens to pull advertising from the local newspaper if they print such stories. However, what sway does Ubuntu have over the Telegraph? There'll be a lot more openness and honesty in the Ubuntu community, but the general public lock onto the bad stories, and forget about their (more serious) problems with Windows.

Have I upgraded? I learnt from my Windows experience to never get the initial release of any software. I'll give it another month or two for 9.10 to roast to perfection.

Frak
November 6th, 2009, 06:41 AM
Chill out. When you realize how developing works then you can complain.

Ok, I'm allowed to complain now right? Ok, ehem, when you break backwards compatibility, you're doing it wrong. When your code looks like a jumbled mess of spaghetti, you're doing it wrong. When the creator of one of the most important parts of Linux admit that the mixes of his project inserted into many distributions is extremely bloated, you're doing it wrong. When there is no code quality control, you're doing it wrong.

Welcome to why BSD is touted to being even more stable than Linux. They take time to make sure every piece of code is in tip-top shape before release.


Everyone makes mistakes, nothing is perfect. Don't expect perfection ESPECIALLY when you're getting something for free.

Very simply, don't tout it as being better than the paid alternative. I don't see on Ubuntu's home page where it says "remember, it's free, so your Wireless, graphics, networking altogether might not work".

Jr.Muffin
November 6th, 2009, 06:46 AM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. It’s the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!
I'm very interested on where you got your statistics from. Luckily for me, everything went very smoothly. I have never actually had any problems with any new release whats so ever, and I can testify that this release has been the smoothest one yet.


Welcome to why BSD is touted to being even more stable than Linux. They take time to make sure every piece of code is in tip-top shape before release.
That is very true, but what you must have in mind is that the system that BSD and Linux work with are extremely different. They both have their pros and cons.

SunnyRabbiera
November 6th, 2009, 07:02 AM
Welcome to why BSD is touted to being even more stable than Linux. They take time to make sure every piece of code is in tip-top shape before release.


Welcome to why BSD is behind linux in terms of support too.

Frak
November 6th, 2009, 07:02 AM
what you must have in mind is that the system that BSD and Linux work with are extremely different.

They're not that different. I'd say that Win32 and Linux were extremely different. Linux and BSD? Not so much.

SunnyRabbiera
November 6th, 2009, 07:05 AM
They're not that different. I'd say that Win32 and Linux were extremely different. Linux and BSD? Not so much.

its different enough for BSD not to have as much hardware support or flash support though

Jr.Muffin
November 6th, 2009, 07:13 AM
They're not that different. I'd say that Win32 and Linux were extremely different. Linux and BSD? Not so much.
You seem to have misunderstood my statement. What I meant to say is that the system that is used to develop BSD and Linux are very different.

The development of BSD is much more centralized then the development of the Linux kernel. In BSD every part of the "base" is written to co-exist with each other. This makes things much more stable then in Linux. In Linux every part of the kernel is a "piece", so there is no base to work from. This has it's advantages as well like faster development.

ukripper
November 6th, 2009, 11:23 AM
Over and over again.............Unsubscribing this thread now!!!):P

xpod
November 6th, 2009, 11:33 AM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

I`ll certainly agree with that part of your post.
Same old same old eh.

stinger30au
November 6th, 2009, 11:39 AM
Ubuntu has a responsibility to create quality products! Ubuntu 9.10 is full of pain and frustration for many users. Itís the same old story every 6 months! You can't broke things which were working. 20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!


really

and every other operating that has ever been created has worked 100% on every computer known to man and not one single person anywhere on the planet had any dramas with it


in your dreams

every o/s has dramas

this includes ubuntu

it has been said so many times on these forums

wait about 4 weeks after release before install so that damn near all the bugs are ironed out

if this still does not satisfy you

then youd better sell your pc as no o/s will ever be good enough for you unfortunately

koenn
November 6th, 2009, 06:34 PM
20% of users can't install Ubuntu 9.10!

I'm very interested on where you got your statistics from. ...

probably from this article : http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/iandouglas/100004124/bad-karma-for-linux-koalas/
which builds on this informal and possibly not all that representative poll : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1305924


Interesting take on "Bad Press" and these polls: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1316155

Frak
November 7th, 2009, 12:54 AM
This has it's advantages as well like faster development.

And very messy code.

Jr.Muffin
November 7th, 2009, 01:06 AM
probably from this article : http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/technology/iandouglas/100004124/bad-karma-for-linux-koalas/

You can't always trust statistics. For example:

Thread: Putting the bad press about Karmic in perspective (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1316155)

The thread above says that only 16% of users said they "got many problems that i've not been able to solve". The above article also says:


Right now Karmic has the comparatively (out of the last five releases) highest percentage of flawless upgrades.
Karmic is also only in the median when it comes to upgrades with many problems out of the five releases.
Karmic has the comparatively highest percentage of flawless installs.
Again, Karmic is only the median for installations with problems that couldn't be solved.

So did Ubuntu actually make Linux look bad? I guess it depends on the statistics you've seen.

The Funkbomb
November 7th, 2009, 01:09 AM
The problem with forum polls is it isn't a fair slice of data. I had very little problems so I didn't participate in polls like that. Of course the people who are having problems are going to speak the loudest. That's how it always works.

squilookle
November 7th, 2009, 01:37 AM
Every release there seem to be many threads complaining of problems, which are normal and to be expected if you are an early adopter of any new OS.

I was a little disappointed when I saw a couple of articles on problems with Karmic, including this one: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/03/karmic_koala_frustration/ complete with quotes from these forums. Like most others here, I really want to see Ubuntu adopted further and I recommend it wherever I can: sometimes to the annoyance of my friends and family now who are sick of hearing about it, and I (don't lose any sleep over it but...) fear that this sort bad press could put some potential users off.

It's nobodies fault, and if it doesn't work for people then there is no reason they shouldn't complain abit on the Forums, and they should certainly ask for help here. I'm not suggesting that the community should hide problems with Ubuntu from the media or potential users, but it would be nice if some individuals realised that their comments have an effect on the perception, and possibly the success of Ubuntu, and if, with this realization, they leaned more toward constructive criticism and away non constructive criticism (rants in some cases) that would be less interesting for the media to quote, and less off putting to new users.

I could, of course, be barking up the wrong tree completely. Just some thoughts I had, when I probably should be asleep... Ah well.

murderslastcrow
November 7th, 2009, 02:18 AM
Choose what's best for you. If the newest release won't work, use the LTS. If that doesn't satisfy you, use Debian. Just use what works for you.

I've upgraded to Karmic on about 13 PCs so far, and the only thing I've seen is improvements. Linux works great, especially for something that has had relatively little vendor support in its history. It works on Macs, 98 computers, XP computers, and OBVIOUSLY Vista PCs. Even with brand new hardware there's rarely a condition where things don't work.

Compare this to any version of Windows or Mac OS X, and you'll see that hardware compatibility is one of Linux's greatest strengths.

As far as the software issues go, it takes more than one week to look through all those packages and make them work seamlessly with each other, but I haven't encountered any of these issues personally.

I think it's interesting how so much more work goes into maintaining Linux distributions than a simple release of proprietary systems, but how well it works and how many improvements there are.

It truly is a sight to behold. If you have a showstopping bug, like I said, LTS, Debian, or bust. It wouldn't hurt to use Fedora or OpenSUSE to see how they fare on the hardware. However, I've installed on a large range of computers (and PS3s, even), and haven't run into any issues that couldn't be easily solved. No OS is perfect (yet).

lindix
November 7th, 2009, 12:37 PM
Choose what's best for you. If the newest release won't work, use the LTS. If that doesn't satisfy you, use Debian. Just use what works for you.


If, after reading from a good source something like: --Microsoft is still the top for now, but for you there's never been a better time to try out an alternative to Windows.--(www.pcworld.com (http://www.pcworld.com)),a new user decide to try Ubuntu 9.10 and if i's not working, do you think he'll download 9.04 or Suse or...???He will run away! Six month release cycle make sense for Advertising, but not for adding Bugs to the lists.

Naiki Muliaina
November 7th, 2009, 12:51 PM
http://www.linux-mag.com/cache/7600/1.html

Cant stand that website... Bunch of trolls that call themselves a magazine imho...

overdrank
November 7th, 2009, 01:56 PM
This thread has run its course thread closed.