Ubuntu is a commercial product and KUbuntu is a community distribution

[praveesh]

Many know this . This thread is for those who don't know this fact . It's the Ubuntu that recieves the canonical's funding . Earlier , I didn't know this.

[earthpigg]

This thread is for those who don't know this fact.

well, lets add some more info:

-the low-level 'guts' of Ubuntu and Kubuntu are identical.

-you can have both installed on the same system at the same time and can switch between without rebooting.

-lots of people have kde ("kubuntu") apps instaled in GNOME ("ubuntu"), and vice-versa.

-ubuntu/gnome uses GTK+, and kubuntu/kde uses QT. there is an additional RAM and hard disk space overhead of running QT stuff in GNOME and of running GTK+ stuff in kde. this additional overhead can be regarded as trivial on any desktop computer purchased in the last 3 years or so.

-gnome/gtk+ and kde/qt fans will argue for hours about which is better.

-use whichever you like best. in the end, both are pretty close to just-as-fast as each other and both work peachy fine. both can also be configured extensively.

-pigs are kinda cool animals.

[praveesh]

well, lets add some more info:

-the low-level 'guts' of Ubuntu and Kubuntu are identical.

-you can have both installed on the same system at the same time and can switch between without rebooting.
.

You mean installing kUbuntu-desktop?

[cariboo]

Yes, I have a Jaunty install in a vm with both the KDE desktop and the Gnome desktop installed, all you have to do is log out, choose your session and log back in again.

[Praxicoide]

I have Ubuntu/Xubuntu in this machine.

[earthpigg]

I have Ubuntu/Xubuntu in this machine.

ubuntu (gnome) and xubuntu (xfce) both use GTK+. so does LXDE. statement is keeping with the threads theme of:


This thread is for those who don't know this fact.

[konqueror7]

obviously Ubuntu is the main marketed and advertised product of Canonical. i doubt that the funds just go just to the Ubuntu project, because @earthpigg noted, they have the same guts.

[GeneralZod]

It's the Ubuntu that recieves the canonical's funding

Well, Canonical fund at least two Kubuntu developers, too (Jonathan Riddell and recently Aurelien Gateau).

[praveesh]

Yes, I have a Jaunty install in a vm with both the KDE desktop and the Gnome desktop installed, all you have to do is log out, choose your session and log back in again.

but I think we don't call it installing two distros . Isn't it called installing two desktop environments in the same os.

Currently , I have Kde 4.3.1 installed on Ubuntu jaunty.

[praveesh]

Well, Canonical fund at least two Kubuntu developers, too (Jonathan Riddell and recently Aurelien Gateau).

Oh . Yeah . Just two .

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

Oh . Yeah . Just two .
That's enough considering that KDE (and Gnome even) are primarily developed elsewhere.

[slakkie]

And I always thought Canonical made money by providing commercial support to companies (for Ubuntu/Xubuntu/Kubuntu).

[hoppipolla]

I think it would be great to have a LOT more TLC behind Kubuntu but to be fair I think this will happen anyway as KDE 4 gets better and Ubuntu picks up popularity as an OS. We will also find I think that KDE 4 will become so good that it will become easier and easier to implement "well" as long as its well compiled and packaged! :)

And with the DE thing, yeah Ive got a fair few on here too but i only really use KDE and sometimes Openbox as it loads up a little faster :)

[praveesh]

I think it would be great to have a LOT more TLC behind Kubuntu but to be fair I think this will happen anyway as KDE 4 gets better and Ubuntu picks up popularity as an OS. We will also find I think that KDE 4 will become so good that it will become easier and easier to implement "well" as long as its well compiled and packaged! :)

And with the DE thing, yeah Ive got a fair few on here too but i only really use KDE and sometimes Openbox as it loads up a little faster :)

TLC? Can you please say the full form ?

Now more than one company (hp ,dell,system 76 etc) ships computers preinstalled with Ubuntu . Ubuntu is slowly getting popularity .


But Iam afraid of a situation .When more people outside linux use Ubuntu, they will eventually find kUbuntu . And if the kUbuntu skill remains as a bad implementation of kde , they will soon endup saying "kde is crap"

@hoppi , The problem with kUbuntu partly goes to kde and partly to the graphical package management application

[KiwiNZ]

Many know this . This thread is for those who don't know this fact . It's the Ubuntu that recieves the canonical's funding . Earlier , I didn't know this.

what is the point of this thread?

[hoppipolla]

TLC? Can you please say the full form ?

Now more than one company (hp ,dell,system 76 etc) ships computers preinstalled with Ubuntu . Ubuntu is slowly getting popularity .


But Iam afraid of a situation .When more people outside linux use Ubuntu, they will eventually find kUbuntu . And if the kUbuntu skill remains as a bad implementation of kde , they will soon endup saying "kde is crap"

@hoppi , The problem with kUbuntu partly goes to kde and partly to the graphical package management application
Like I said before though, its very difficult to hide quality like that man! Even the package management app will improve in leaps and bounds :)

Oh, and TLC is "Tender, Loving Care" meaning, in this context, more attention and work to get it working at its best! :)

[hoppipolla]

what is the point of this thread?
To inform others! heh :)

I didnt fully know the specifics of this either :)

[praveesh]

Like I said before though, its very difficult to hide quality like that man! Even the package management app will improve in leaps and bounds :)

Oh, and TLC is "Tender, Loving Care" meaning, in this context, more attention and work to get it working at its best! :)

Thanks for the clarification .

To inform others! heh :)

I didnt fully know the specifics of this either :)

Yeah you said it .

[earthpigg]

it would be nice if we created a two new words to distinguish between ubuntu-desktop and ubuntu-guts.

similar to how it would be nice if we created two new words to distinguish between Free Software and software that an end-user pays $0.00 for. Well, we have that already. twice. Software Gratis and Software Libre. We also have FLOSS and Freeware.

i propose Gutsbuntu! to refer to any system reliant upon ubuntu repositories and packages. plural and singular are "Gutsbuntu".


I see you have Kubuntu installed. I also have a Gutsbuntu system, using openbox and fb-panel (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fbpanel) for the GUI. My roomate has a gutsbuntu server machine, and a desktop. i think he uses JWM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jwm) for the GUI on his desktop, but we all know that is completely trivial.

shameless bias to follow:

Of all Gutsbuntu releases, Masonux is my favorite. Spri is a close second, and Xubuntu has its uses.

i am only sort-of joking.

cuz really? when we go into super-nerd-fest-mode-extreme, do the DE and Window Manager (if any) matter at all?

its still gutsbuntu, and we can still sudo apt-get install ubuntu-desktop and whatever else we want. still using upstart (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upstart). still using everything else unique to gutsbuntu.

(replace the mini.iso (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD) with gutsbuntu-i386.iso and gutsbuntu-amd64.iso. done.)

[KiwiNZ]

Many know this . This thread is for those who don't know this fact . It's the Ubuntu that recieves the canonical's funding . Earlier , I didn't know this.


http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu

[slakkie]

http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu

Don't believe anything you read :D

[ad_267]

but I think we don't call it installing two distros . Isn't it called installing two desktop environments in the same os.

Currently , I have Kde 4.3.1 installed on Ubuntu jaunty.

You could also argue that you can't call Kubuntu a separate distribution to Ubuntu. Most other popular distros give a choice of desktop environment during installation, and the difference between OpenSUSE + KDE and OpenSUSE + Gnome is about the same as between Ubuntu and Kubuntu. The fact that Ubuntu is installed from a CD rather than DVD means they have to be separated. It also makes Ubuntu simpler for people new to Linux as they don't have to make a choice they know nothing about.

[earthpigg]

You could also argue that you can't call Kubuntu a separate distribution to Ubuntu.

i herebye declare that they are both one and the same, to be henceforth regarded as trivial variants of Gutsbuntu GNU/Wesnoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesnoth)/Linux.

[bigbrovar]

Canonical has already made it know (through their actions and body language) That the focal point of their development effort is (G)Ubuntu, Kubuntu and Xubuntu are glorified community distros which are offered to please the kde - xfce fans. This is why features like software center, xsplash, even UbuntuONE only developed for (G)Ubuntu. When we kubuntu users asks when we can expect such users we are told to DIY. I love kubuntu and am happy that at least canonical even tries to ship a kde variant (at least some how) but what I hate is when there try to make it sound like ubuntu and kubuntu are treated equally.

[michaeldt]

Well, ok, to satisfy the OP, Canonical should just stop funding everything to do with Ubuntu? Or perhaps he wants as much funding for Kubuntu as for Ubuntu? What about Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Lubuntu etc.?

Should Canonical fund all of those equally too?

Here's a suggestion, ask Mark Shuttleworth how much he has personally spent on Kubuntu development, and then ask yourself how much input you have given.

[praveesh]

Well, ok, to satisfy the OP, Canonical should just stop funding everything to do with Ubuntu? Or perhaps he wants as much funding for Kubuntu as for Ubuntu? What about Xubuntu, Edubuntu, Lubuntu etc.?

Should Canonical fund all of those equally too?

Here's a suggestion, ask Mark Shuttleworth how much he has personally spent on Kubuntu development, and then ask yourself how much input you have given.

well , I didn't say(or meant) any thing that points to your conclusion . I just wish to share an info I got from the open week .

[michaeldt]

well , I didn't say(or meant) any thing that points to your conclusion . I just wish to share an info I got from the open week .

So, any particular reason why you wanted to share this ONE bit of info from the open week? I can only imagine it's because you'd like more funding for Kubuntu, or that you're not happy with the situation, as per your later post:



But Iam afraid of a situation .When more people outside linux use Ubuntu, they will eventually find kUbuntu . And if the kUbuntu skill remains as a bad implementation of kde , they will soon endup saying "kde is crap"

All distros have to be funded in some way. That money does not come from thin air. Be grateful that there are so many organisations which provide so much funding for the development of Linux as a whole.

If you'd like KDE to improve, try here: http://www.kde.org/support/

As for Kubuntu, if you'd like it to improve, help out: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu

[sim-value]

-Mark Shuttleworth is KDE patron and is spending 1 Million a Year on KDE

[praveesh]

So, any particular reason why you wanted to share this ONE bit of info from the open week? I can only imagine it's because you'd like more funding for Kubuntu, or that you're not happy with the situation, as per your later post:



All distros have to be funded in some way. That money does not come from thin air. Be grateful that there are so many organisations which provide so much funding for the development of Linux as a whole.

If you'd like KDE to improve, try here: http://www.kde.org/support/

As for Kubuntu, if you'd like it to improve, help out: https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HelpingKubuntu

You should not have imagined like that .

But I will certainly contribute to Kde and KUbuntu . Iam actually planning to do that .

And I told just that info because I didn't know that earlier .

[LookTJ]

Just because a company funds a project doesn't automatically make it commercial.

[GeneralZod]

-Mark Shuttleworth is KDE patron and is spending 1 Million a Year on KDE

I'd be intrigued to see a breakdown of this figure.

[sim-value]

It was in a IRC log from a Q&A session with SABDFL

... let me see if i find it

[praveesh]

Just because a company funds a project doesn't automatically make it commercial.

I agree but commercial doesn't means proprietory . And does the employees of canonical develop Ubuntu or the people sponsored by the canonical develop Ubuntu ?

[konqueror7]

i herebye declare that they are both one and the same, to be henceforth regarded as trivial variants of Gutsbuntu GNU/Wesnoth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wesnoth)/Linux.

i'm thinking, wouldn't CrunchBang and LinuxMint also as variants of 'Gutsbuntu'? the only difference between Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and Xubuntu are just the DEs and WMs, and you can install the kubuntu-desktop to be Kubuntu...wouldn't that make installing KDE in CrunchBang be KrunchBang? just noticed it...

i think the definition of a distro is a variant of linux which is prepacked with programs, services, tools, and utils that make them a unique?

[Mark76]

Concerning the position of Kubuntu within the Ubuntu family, here's what the main site has to say


Officially Supported Derivatives

These derivatives are fully supported by Canonical and the Ubuntu community.

Kubuntu - Ubuntu with the K Desktop Environment

Edubuntu - Ubuntu for Education

Ubuntu Server Edition - Ubuntu for Servers

And as for Xubuntu



Recognized Derivatives

These are derivatives that use Ubuntu as their foundation and contribute signficantly towards the project.

Xubuntu - Ubuntu with the XFCE desktop environment

Ubuntu Studio - Designed for multimedia editing and creation

Mythbuntu - Designed for creating a home theatre PC with MythTV

So. Kubuntu is an official flavour of Ubuntu and Xubuntu is a recognized (i.e. endorsed but unofficial) one.

Yay! 1,000 posts! :D

[Tibuda]

It was in a IRC log from a Q&A session with SABDFL

... let me see if i find it

Here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/AskMark


(12:25:17 PM) jcastro: <nixternal> jcastro: QUESTION: Do you think Kubuntu is a blue headed step child that every seems to think it is? If not, can you put the rumours to rest, with possibly a song or a lovely poem letting everyone know just how much you really love us over in the Kubuntu community?
(12:25:31 PM) sabdfl: oh dea
(12:25:32 PM) sabdfl: r
(12:25:53 PM) sabdfl: this question makes me rather sad, because i don't know what else i could do
(12:26:09 PM) sabdfl: i worked out the other day that i personally spend more than $2m a year supporting Kubuntu and KDE
(12:26:20 PM) sabdfl: and yet those communities think it's cool to act unloved
(12:26:40 PM) sabdfl: i think the Kubuntu community's work is amazing, and they should be proud of it
(12:27:07 PM) sabdfl: there's no need to make out like it's against the forces of corporate indifference
(12:27:19 PM) sabdfl: when in fact I and many others bend a long way to make it possible
(12:27:25 PM) sabdfl: that's about enough on the subject
(12:27:27 PM) sabdfl: next?

[Xbehave]

Maybe things have changes but the reason Kubuntu users feel unloved is because, ubuntu gets new features first and sometimes new features are completely untested in kde (I think a NetworkManager changes left a kubuntu RC completely unusable, in recent history (8.04?))

TBH most of the underlying systems are the same though, so its only superficial features that gnome gets first.

p.s I'm glad to hear that the number of kubuntu developers has doubled from the last time i heard about this issue :D :P

[MellonCollie]

Well, Canonical fund at least two Kubuntu developers, too (Jonathan Riddell and recently Aurelien Gateau).

MMmmmmmm gateau.

[hoppipolla]

As much as I love KDE, I still suggest that when someone wants it they get Ubuntu 9.10 and then bung kubuntu-desktop on top of it. It just feels better that way and you get all the awesome xsplash and new GDM and such. And the Gnome Ubuntu tools, which Im not sure if you get in straight Ubuntu.

I think the way this sways will have a lot to do with how Gnome 3.0 and KDE 4.4/5 compare, both for end users and for developers. Ill be keeping my eye on things anyway :)

[hoppipolla]

MMmmmmmm gateau.
rofl! Wicked post :)

[NormanFLinux]

Let's not overlook the newest member of the official Ubuntu family - Lubuntu based on the LXDE desktop environment. It did not make it into Karmic but it should be ready when Lucid Lynx is out next year.

[Mark76]

Ahem

[Regenweald]

Here it is: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/AskMark

Notice how the kde fans are ignoring this post ? It's just easier to say that Kubuntu is underdeveloped rather than help to make it better. Canonical is providing the funding, now you do something.

ironic thing is, i never see kde devs bitching, they're too busy working.
it's always this tiny, vocal minority, with apparently nothing better to do...

[slakkie]

In other news: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord

[praveesh]

In other news: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord

Interesting

[hoppipolla]

In other news: http://www.kubuntu.org/news/timelord

dear GOD! O.O

Project Timelord no less!


EDIT -- Seriously though, it's no surprise this surfaces shortly after KDE 4.3.2! lol

[Regenweald]

but I think we don't call it installing two distros . Isn't it called installing two desktop environments in the same os.

Currently , I have Kde 4.3.1 installed on Ubuntu jaunty.

If the only difference between the distros is the DE, then your point is moot.

[earthpigg]

If the only difference between the distros is the DE, then your point is moot.

well, i would say....

repos, package management, and default installed stuff (including DE). list of differences done. to a nerd, anyways.

if it's a commercial enterprise with non-nerds that cost $40/hour to re-train, then we are discussing something entirely different.

[LookTJ]

I agree but commercial doesn't means proprietory . And does the employees of canonical develop Ubuntu or the people sponsored by the canonical develop Ubuntu ?
Some of the contribution come from the community, not just the Canonical developers. like filing bugs, requesting features, volunteer support, etc.

But who cares? We can make our own distribution or even switch to one that fit our needs better ;). Heck we can start with a minimal install and build from there.

[kio_http]

I wouldn't say that Kubuntu does not have funding as it does also ship free cd's. But however in relation to ubuntu its a bit neglected. E.g ubuntuforums.org is brown like ubuntu and maintained by cannonical. kubuntuforums.net on the other hand is maintained by an individual and does not receive any financial backing from canonical.

It would have been much better if from the start both KDE and Gnome came in the same distribution with the same name like SuSe etc do