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View Full Version : Would You Recommend Ubuntu to your friends and family as a replacement for Windows.



plurworldinc
November 2nd, 2009, 10:53 PM
Now I love my Ubuntu systems, love it !!!! I have found Linux, Ubuntu, and Open Source has been on of the best things that has ever happen to me.:D

Now with that said, my entire household uses Linux and my father in law was the one that got me to make the final switch, which in my case was great because if I had any questions I could go to the forums or just ask my father in law that could sit down with me and show me what I was doing.

However, this week my mother purchased a new laptop and for the past year she has been just using mine when she wants to check something on the web when I stop by to visit. So since she was already kinda use to playing with Linux she asked me if I could install it onto her laptop. I thought is was a wonderful idea, but then I remembered the days of no wifi, lost sounds, and a number of little problems I could have to deal with that I didn't have to worry about with Windows.

So, what would you do ? install Ubuntu or let them suffer with Windows....

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 2nd, 2009, 11:04 PM
Now I love my Ubuntu systems, love it !!!! I have found Linux, Ubuntu, and Open Source has been on of the best things that has ever happen to me.:D

Now with that said, my entire household uses Linux and my father in law was the one that got me to make the final switch, which in my case was great because if I had any questions I could go to the forums or just ask my father in law that could sit down with me and show me what I was doing.

However, this week my mother purchased a new laptop and for the past year she has been just using mine when she wants to check something on the web when I stop by to visit. So since she was already kinda use to playing with Linux she asked me if I could install it onto her laptop. I thought is was a wonderful idea, but then I remembered the days of no wifi, lost sounds, and a number of little problems I could have to deal with that I didn't have to worry about with Windows.

So, what would you do ? install Ubuntu or let them suffer with Windows....
I'd give it a try and if you can't get everything to work you can always reinstall windows right? It's a new computer there shouldn't be a lot of backing up necessary. BTW, I run Ubuntu on my laptop and have no problems, although I did have to update a few of the configuration files to get things like my headphones working. Quick fix, just google the manufacturer of the laptop + linux.

beastrace91
November 2nd, 2009, 11:27 PM
I remembered the days of no wifi, lost sounds, and a number of little problems I could have to deal with that I didn't have to worry about with Windows.

I've had a few issues like this but for the most part everything I drop Ubuntu on "just works".

And yes when my friends and family ask I strongly recommend Ubuntu over Windows. But at the same time you have to make sure they realize what Ubuntu is. Pitching Linux as "free Windows" is the best way to turn someone off to what it really is.

~Jeff

Sealbhach
November 2nd, 2009, 11:32 PM
I switched my brother over to Ubuntu about a year ago, after his Vista install got all virused up by his pr0n habits. He paid some shop 100 euros or so to simply reinstall Windows, ha ha!

So he was very open to my idea of setting up a dual boot with Ubuntu. He only really uses the browser, and loads up photos from a camera, and he's never had a problem. A few weeks ago I installed Karmic for him, seems to be trouble free so far.

.

Ro86
November 3rd, 2009, 12:07 AM
You can try Ubuntu without installing it first (you know, the live cd functionality). Should give you a good indication of how well it will work on the laptop and if you'd need to do any troubleshooting.

NightwishFan
November 3rd, 2009, 12:31 AM
You can try Ubuntu without installing it first (you know, the live cd functionality). Should give you a good indication of how well it will work on the laptop and if you'd need to do any troubleshooting.

I agree, use a live-cd or live-usb of the new Karmic, and test the system on their hardware. If all the relevant hardware passes, such as wireless and display, then you should go ahead.

An Ubuntu system excels at many tasks for all users, such as multimedia and office, but it really excels as a web device. Do not forget to mention the automatic live upgrades to the new versions.

Islington
November 3rd, 2009, 12:35 AM
I would not. Not because it isnt fully functional or anything like that, but I no longer wish to fix other people's computers, and currently my standard excuse is "Sorry, I don't use Windows."

I do let people assume I use a mac.

RiceMonster
November 3rd, 2009, 12:37 AM
I let them use windows. They do not suffer.

falconindy
November 3rd, 2009, 12:38 AM
Sure. As long as they are willing to give me ssh access via my RSA key and know my bill rate.

/shrug

jrusso2
November 3rd, 2009, 01:13 AM
I don't recommend Linux use to anyone unless they are technical experienced and looking for an alternative or ask me about Linux cause they are interested in learning.

I don't think its good to push Linux to people who are not ready.

aldld
November 3rd, 2009, 01:20 AM
I have recommended Ubuntu to a couple of my geekier friends, and a couple of them are thinking of trying it out.

My family has a bit of experience with Linux, because I installed openSUSE on the computer that we all share because it came without an OS, and we didn't want to pay more for Windows. They all have their own laptops with Windows, though.

Giant Speck
November 3rd, 2009, 01:21 AM
Absolutely not. My father is too afraid to turn on a computer and my mother is a Windows power-user who has built three computers from scratch.

I don't recommend Ubuntu to those who don't need it.

LanceyD
November 3rd, 2009, 01:25 AM
Short answer NO.

Even the more computer literate friends will pull their hair out over the constant niggles.

sloggerkhan
November 3rd, 2009, 01:27 AM
As long as I install it for them I would recommend Ubuntu.

ticopelp
November 3rd, 2009, 01:32 AM
Whenever a friend of mine starts complaining about how lousy his Windows machine is, or how expensive it is to upgrade, or about his virus woes or some other Microsoft annoyance, I just casually mention that Ubuntu is free, easy to use and powerful. I don't push him on it.

My family is far too computer illiterate for Ubuntu to be a realistic option.

PhilGil
November 3rd, 2009, 01:34 AM
I would (and I have) as long as they are either (1) tech-oriented and willing to learn or (2) I am available as a resource for any problems that might arise. Otherwise I would recommend they stay with Windows, as the number of knowledgeable users available to help with problems is much greater.

Zoot7
November 3rd, 2009, 01:39 AM
I've converted my parents, my sister, a few of my friends, and my girlfriend to Ubuntu.

Both my parents are extremely computer illiterate. All they use their machines for is internet browsing, word processing, skype and playing music and movies. I've them both set up with Hardy on their machines. With Ubuntu they've the added security and the fact that it updates itself quietly in the background, and now BSODs are a thing of the past. And I hardly ever get a phone call anymore looking for help. If they can use Ubuntu and actually rather it to Windows then anyone can. I think the fact that they can use it is a testament to how user friendly Ubuntu really is.

My sister, took her a while to get used to Ubuntu. But a virus under Vista finally tipped her over the edge. It also took her a while to get used to openoffice and gtkpod to manage her iPod. But now she's using Hardy and loving it, I've been asked to remove the Vista partition off her laptop the next time I fly over to visit her.

My current girlfriend took to it straight away, she's pretty competent with computers so it wasn't any hassle to her. She's now using skype, pidgin, openoffice, vlc, managing her photos and using Banshee to manage her music with no problems of instability or security anymore. 2 weeks ago, I wiped the XP partition off her laptop at her request.

I don't force it upon anyone; I introduce them to it, briefly tell them about the advantages - better security, really stable etc. (not preach - linux preachers do linux in general no good). Then I set up a dual boot for them; make sure they can still boot into Windows, and tell them to try it out and see, and if they don't like it then I'll remove it again for them.
The only thing I always make sure that they know is that they won't be able to install software like they can in Windows.

Hardy is what I've set most up with, merely because it's about as rock solid as it can get about now. I've my girlfriends laptop running Jaunty, merely because it plays nicer on the college wireless.
Granted once you install Ubuntu for someone you become tech support, but Ubuntu is a lot easier diagnose over MSN or over the phone than Windows.
Truth be told, I'm surprized at how well Ubuntu has gone down with my friends and family. :)

Alas, Ubuntu isn't for everyone. I've one friend who tried Ubuntu at my recommendation, but ended up going back to Vista.

Spike-X
November 3rd, 2009, 01:43 AM
As a replacement for Windows? No. That would suggest that they would be able to run all their familiar Windows programs on Ubuntu, and that it would be virtually indistinguishable from that fine Microsoft product.

As an alternative to Windows? Sure, I'd suggest it. I'd be sure to let them know, however, that Ubuntu is different to Windows, and that they would need to be willing to actually take the time and learn a few new ways of doing the things they're used to doing with Windows.

00ber n00b
November 3rd, 2009, 01:45 AM
Every single chance I get. "My computer bsod the other day." me-"Have you ever heard of Ubuntu?" "no, what is that? some kind of program?" me-"yeah, soething like that."

Genius314
November 3rd, 2009, 01:51 AM
I like to observe what kind of programs people use on Windows, first, to make sure that they won't miss anything if they move.

I rarely "recommend" Ubuntu, though. I know that when you hype something up, people are more likely to point out all the flaws.
It's like when you tell someone you heard the "funniest" joke. They never seem to laugh as much at those, then if you were to just tell a joke.

ShaneR
November 3rd, 2009, 02:09 AM
No, I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu (or any Linux) to any of my friends or my family.

I think what Linux is doing is great and have a great respect for those who develop and care for it, but it's just not "there" yet. Yes, it's far more user friendly than it was not all that long ago, but it still has a ways to go.

I'm not a Windows fanboy, but I do prefer it. And I know no one who "suffers" with Windows. Those who do suffer, will suffer with Linux just as much and have just as many headaches. If one doesn't have the knowledge to keep a Windows install running smoothly (and it's not hard), They won't have any better luck with any other OS.

I hope one day I can recommend it, but it's not today :)

jualin
November 3rd, 2009, 02:13 AM
Not all laptops work with Ubuntu but you can always try it. The days of lost wireless and no sounds are over. Pulse Audio handles multiple sound output pretty well so you don't have to worry about that anymore. And most common wireless cards work. You are giving her a more secure environment which would make her computer pretty protected against viruses.
People who are new to computers get use to Linux pretty quickly since they have never been "contaminated" with Windows.
Hope this helps! :guitar:

Spike-X
November 3rd, 2009, 02:17 AM
People who are new to computers get use to Linux pretty quickly since they have never been "contaminated" with Windows.


I'm finding this with my one and only convert so far; she'd never really used computers before, so even if she'd stuck with the Win2k install on her ancient 2nd-hand laptop, she would have had a lot of learning to do.

edin9
November 3rd, 2009, 02:18 AM
On netbooks maybe, on desktops/laptops no way. Too many problems.

HappyFeet
November 3rd, 2009, 02:31 AM
I don't recommend Linux use to anyone unless they are technical experienced and looking for an alternative or ask me about Linux cause they are interested in learning.

I don't think its good to push Linux to people who are not ready.

Why would they have to be techies? I installed it for an 80 year old man who knows little about computers, and has no problems using it.

lethalfang
November 3rd, 2009, 02:44 AM
I would recommend it, but only if I'm there to install it myself to make sure everything works seamlessly. Ubuntu needs some tinkering and fixing before it starts to work. It needs more tinkering and fixing than Windows does. On the other hand, once you do get it to work, it rarely breaks down.

dragos240
November 3rd, 2009, 02:47 AM
I can't get anyone to try it. They think it's a virus of some sort. They think it's too good to be true.

sloggerkhan
November 3rd, 2009, 02:56 AM
I don't really get why people hesitate to recommend it to the non-tech oriented. In my experience computer illeterate people tend to take to ubuntu pretty well so long as they don't have to install it themselves.

hoppipolla
November 3rd, 2009, 03:02 AM
Here's the thaaang...

I prefer Ubuntu, personally, but yeah I wouldn't say it's perfect for everyone. If you can get around the hardware support issues (which isn't too hard but just takes a little bit of time) and they don't want to install any software that's TOO unusual or get the very latest updates (unlikely for a casual user anyway) then yeah I would say Ubuntu is a fair bet!

Windows is more accessible to people, but day-to-day I feel you can do more and things can actually be FRIENDLIER and better integrated in Ubuntu. It's a fairly close one at the moment I'd say, but I might wait until Lucid or 10.10 before I really start recommending Ubuntu for everyone :)

plurworldinc
November 3rd, 2009, 04:08 AM
Wow, i must say everyone has been very helpful !!! SO here we go....

This evening I ended out installing Ubuntu 8.04 onto my mother's laptop. I decided 8.04 because it's the LTS and that would give her somewhat better peace of mind. As of right now, so far , so good, everything is up and running and she couldn't be happier.

But because she is my mother and not just another random friend, before i left her house I made sure to set up a remote to her computer for I could fix any problems that would come along. I was surprise by her because she really wanted 9.10 since it looked new and flashy. that mad me giggle.

But I was smart about it, I let her use the Live CD first to get use to the idea and the rest is history. Thanks everyone for all your help this evening....

Megrimn
November 3rd, 2009, 04:16 AM
maybe dad, i'm still trying to get it installed on his laptop. Old thing, no wireless card and only a dial-up modem. Haven't ever been able to update it once I get it installed, plus the cd drive is busted. Installing usually requires removing the HDD.

definitely not my mom. she needs to acess her work computer (vista) from home, and doing that with linux would be to complicated for her.

bro and sis probably wouldn't have any problems, though, once they warmed up to it...

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 04:58 AM
No, because I don't want to support/teach anyone with their computer problems or learning difficulties in real life, anymore.

10 years professionally with windows (in real life) was enough.

Forums are completely different than face to face, there is no stress, little expectation & any of us can switch to something different or stop whenever we like as there are no obligations beyond what we want to put in, in an effort to help someone.

If someone is fed up with windows, I tell them to get a Mac.

Those that take my advice have always been so glad they did, for a variety of reasons, primarily they haven't required tech' help anymore; they get no more viruses & don't have to run 3rd party security software anymore; they found the system easy to use as it is more integrated than windows.

They easily became autonomous computer users, instead of dependants. I never had to give them help with OS X.

If I had got them to use Linux, I would have had to set up their systems & peripherals, teach them how to use them & help them whenever they didn't understand something.

mamamia88
November 3rd, 2009, 05:16 AM
no my parents can't even figure out ebay

stinger30au
November 3rd, 2009, 06:40 AM
set ubuntu up as dual boot

tell them to use ubuntu to send/receive emails with and surf the net


then see how long it takes till they use windows rarely or even never

it wont take long

i have picked up another client today who want ubuntu as dual boot on their pc and they said to me themself, windows wont last long on their pc

ubuntu is more then ready for the desktop

it just needs more people who are confident enough to install it and set it up for first time users.

having said that, i discovered ubuntu 2 years ago and no one held myhand , i learnt it myself

stop bashing ubuntu, start pushing it instead, and have some faith and confidence in the product

praveesh
November 3rd, 2009, 07:44 AM
Yes but onlyTo non gaming ones (like me).

Squonk07
November 3rd, 2009, 07:55 AM
I tried. Unfortunately, I've failed you all. :cry: Actually, it's only partially my fault. I made the mistake of leaving Ubuntu running on the family computer then leaving for a few days. My screwup was forgetting to set up the SMTP servers in Thunderbird. Ubuntu apparently "crashed," though I couldn't get a straight answer as to what happened. Long story short, "OMG that Linux is horrible," and apparently you could have heard the screaming from China.

Some people just don't get it. People like my parents. God bless them; maybe if a piece of malware mysteriously got on the Windows partition it might spook them. :twisted:

SunnyRabbiera
November 3rd, 2009, 07:59 AM
Yes pretty much, Ubuntu is pretty simplistic.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 3rd, 2009, 08:16 AM
I would recommend it, but only if I'm there to install it myself to make sure everything works seamlessly. Ubuntu needs some tinkering and fixing before it starts to work. It needs more tinkering and fixing than Windows does. On the other hand, once you do get it to work, it rarely breaks down.

I would like to dispute this point. My laptop requires no less than 10 drivers to do all of the things that Ubuntu does out of the box. Yes it is easier from a knowledge standpoint to get things working in Windows, but I can't set up a windows machine fully updated in less than an hour, like I can with Ubuntu or other distros.

I don't think that you have to be a techie to use Ubuntu (notice I didn't say Linux), you just have to get used to it.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 3rd, 2009, 08:18 AM
Some people just don't get it. People like my parents. God bless them; maybe if a piece of malware mysteriously got on the Windows partition it might spook them. :twisted:

Custom built and titled "The virus that only works on Windows"

ghostrider117
November 3rd, 2009, 08:34 AM
i talked my mom in to using ubuntu and at first she was like no i only like windows then she had like four crashs with her windows program and now she loves ubuntu and says if i ever put windows back on her system she will never talk to me again she now hates windows and loves linux and how esey it is to use

LookTJ
November 3rd, 2009, 08:37 AM
For me to recommend to my family and friends, as well as potential clients, it would depends on what their needs are. software, habits, work/home usage, etc.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 3rd, 2009, 08:42 AM
i talked my mom in to using ubuntu and at first she was like no i only like windows then she had like four crashs with her windows program and now she loves ubuntu and says if i ever put windows back on her system she will never talk to me again she now hates windows and loves Ubuntu and how esey it is to use
Fixed.

winjeel
November 3rd, 2009, 09:03 AM
I've been using both XP and Linux. Both have advantages and disadvantages. If she's more familiar with Ubuntu, and it's for your dear sweet mother, go through the effort for her. But your new laptop might already be pretty compatible, so you could be lucky.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 09:17 AM
set ubuntu up as dual boot

tell them to use ubuntu to send/receive emails with and surf the net


then see how long it takes till they use windows rarely or even never

it wont take long

Rubbish, they will stick with whatever they started with & say why should I spend any time trying to learn something new? It is hard enough to deal with what I have already.

& please make me better step by step instruction for handling Outlook Express?

If you want friend/family to use Linux, then start them on it, if they have started on something else leave them to it unless they are complaining enough to be motivated to learn something new.

If they are possible Linux people then at your effort take them there.

If they are not possible Linux people, let Mac look after them = the easy way out. :)

winjeel
November 3rd, 2009, 09:41 AM
That's an interesting point of view. I've started using computers before this thing called "Linux" was invented, and that was a Macintosh that I began with. Furthermore, there are some folks here whose first computers were most likely a Windows. In any case, I agree with some aspect of what you're saying, people need a habit and also familiarity. Which might explain the similarities between Evolution and Outlook Express. I've had no problem in using either, and in fact, found Outlook Express to be simpler and easier to set up, but of course, Evolution lives up to it's name. :) I would only recommend Ubuntu to the right people, Apple OS's for graphics and sound related artists, and Windows or gOS (http://www.thinkgos.com/) for those who just want a computer to check the e-mail on (but I use XP for Adobe LightRoom). It's a matter of horses for courses.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 10:09 AM
Many people need Outlook Express set up for them.

This is why I say, if someone is already using whatever system, leave them to it, why make life harder for them, their strengths lay somewhere else, not in the computer techno-sphere.

Horses for courses. (did some already say that in this thread?)

The Funkbomb
November 3rd, 2009, 11:10 AM
I have gotten exactly one person to switch in real life. I think I may have gotten some online people at least interested.

Don't get me wrong, I tell a lot of people about Ubuntu and linux in general but the time you need to really sell someone on it takes a long time. Unless they're into computers, it will probably bore them before I'm done.

I do think it's important that as Ubuntu users, we try to spread the word. Even if it's just to get someone to use a live disk. Canonical can't compete with the advertising budgets of Microsoft or Mac. It's up to the users to draw more people into the community. I feel like the community and the system of support that goes along with it is one of the biggest selling points. Windows really has no community. Mac does have one but their interest seems more like promoting Macs instead of promoting learning.

Couple of things to be aware of before you try to get someone to switch. What does the user use the computer for? If the person is a hardcore gamer, Ubuntu probably isn't going to be a good fit for them. If they use a specialized piece of software for work that only runs in Windows or on a Mac, again, not a good fit. They may be able to run a dual boot, a VM or run it in WINE but they probably won't be interested.

If they're just your average computer user that doesn't depend on certain software, then proceed.

Now, I'm not an expert at getting people to switch but I feel like there is a three pronged attack. Talk up the positives, be truthful of the negatives, and kill the myths.

The easiest one to do is kill the myths. When I tell people that I use linux, most people think I'm either a programmer or a hacker. I've tried my hand at programming and while I got further in Ubuntu, I'm still terrible at it. I have no interest in cracking into another person's computer but I am interested in how things work. I'm really neither but I have experimented. I'm just a guy who likes computers and I want to use my computer for what I want to do. I don't want to have to worry about what is getting past my virus scanner or running 5 different malware programs because I clicked the wrong link.

People also think that linux is some sort of matrix type deal where they need to decrypt bits raining down the screen or it's all text based. I'm not even making that up. The movies have done a good number on anti-Linux stuff.

The negatives are another hard part to overcome. This is mainly because people don't understand the concept of Open Source. When you tell a person that they won't be using MS Office or Outlook any longer but suggest Open Office or Thunderbird or Evolution, they usually say something like, "How good can it be if it's free?" This is heart breaking to me. Hugs are free and who doesn't love a good hug? I guess you could pay for one but that cheapens the whole deal. Some people are brain washed into thinking that if it's good, someone has to be making 200 bucks a pop on it. I usually just explain that some people make software for their own use and want to share it with the world. Others are making a profit but not by selling the software. Either by pay-for-support or whatever.

Another negative(at first) is terminal. The idea is foreign to most windows users and it sadly plays into the "text based" OS myth. When I first started out, I was afraid of terminal. People made it sound like one typo and your whole computer is gone. While that can happen, such as trying to remove a folder but hitting enter and deleting your root, it hasn't happened to me. It takes some time to learn it but you can do most stuff through the GUI. You don't have to learn how to use terminal in one day. Now that I know how powerful and useful it is, I love it.

The last major issue is hardware support. It's not perfect and you can usually get something to play nicely with a little elbow grease.

We all know the positives of a linux system, even for every day use so I don't need to go into that. The things I've tried to stress are the lack of viruses, how much quicker my computer is, how I don't have to fart around with virus scans and choosing from 300 different firewalls.

I think the important thing is to just be truthful, not forceful. I wouldn't want someone to feel I duped them into trying something they don't like.

Pasdar
November 3rd, 2009, 11:24 AM
Talk of Ubuntu with everyone, but only recommend installing it for those who have 100% hardware compatibility AND of whom you know would be able to do EVERYTHING they already do on their Windows/Mac system. Install it for them and give it a nice theme too, make sure everything works... thats the only way they'll have a good experience...

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 11:46 AM
When we want something different, then we will seek it out.

This is the perfect time for us to change.

Nobody likes being evangelised at, it can even create resistance that would otherwise not exist.

Peter09
November 3rd, 2009, 11:55 AM
I've installed Ubuntu for two friends - both computer illiterates. They used windows before. The fact is that most people use their computer for email and browsing and may be a little documentation. The differences between Ubuntu and Windows for these tasks is minimal and most users can quickly adapt. So far - no complaints from either of them. What they do say is - isn't it fast or it boots quickly etc etc.

The Funkbomb
November 3rd, 2009, 11:57 AM
When we want something different, then we will seek it out.

This is the perfect time for us to change.

Nobody likes being evangelised at, it can even create resistance that would otherwise not exist.

I don't see it that way. It's not like I'm standing at the pulpit.

People want to be on the ground floor of things before everyone else finds out about it. I don't know why but it makes them feel like they have better stature in that community. People are always looking for the cool new thing.

kevdog
November 3rd, 2009, 12:01 PM
I used to be in the camp of saying I would definitely recommend Ubuntu to friends -- but now I am not. If you recommend it to friends with little computer knowledge -- then you are basically on the hook for support. This could become really problematic with upgrades and such from distribution to distribution as currently seen in this Jaunty->Karmic transition and ever transition proceeding it. LTS are only good for a limited time as well, albeit longer, but eventually you will be forced to upgrade.

If the person transitioning to Ubuntu has no real tech interest or computer interests then this conversion experiment is going to fail. With this OS you really need to invest some time into learning about it if you want to use it effectively. Look at all the problems people have with Wireless!!!

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 09:12 PM
I don't see it that way. It's not like I'm standing at the pulpit.

People want to be on the ground floor of things before everyone else finds out about it. I don't know why but it makes them feel like they have better stature in that community. People are always looking for the cool new thing.

No offence intended, but that statement sounds immature & flaky.

Twitch6000
November 3rd, 2009, 09:14 PM
I don't recommend Linux use to anyone unless they are technical experienced and looking for an alternative or ask me about Linux cause they are interested in learning.

I don't think its good to push Linux to people who are not ready.

^agreed

The only Disrto I would install for them would be Linux Mint or Opensuse .

aysiu
November 3rd, 2009, 09:26 PM
I don't know anyone who would be a good candidate for switching to Ubuntu.

Generally speaking, the people I know fall into one of three categories (two of the categories can overlap): Windows power user who actually likes Windows and relies on some Windows-only programs. Self-proclaimed computer illiterate who is afraid of any change. iPhone or iPod Touch owner who isn't likely going to want to constantly have to jailbreak her device to sort of kind of getting it working with something when it works just fine with iTunes on Windows or Mac. The only people out of those three types who have any hope are the self-proclaimed computer illiterates, except that they're so afraid of change that they won't even switch to Mac (which has more name-brand recognition than Ubuntu) or sometimes even to open source Windows programs. These are the kinds of people who think their computers are broken if you move the taskbar to the top of the screen or who think Word has been deleted if the icon for it is missing off the desktop.

bonfire89
November 3rd, 2009, 09:35 PM
I would almost recomend it to my mom cause she only surfs the web and plays some really simple clue type games.. the problem is the games.. otherwise I would for sure.

My dad... I tried... but at the time the wifi connection would drop constantly... now I'm sure he has a bad impression of it... either way, I think it would have ended back at windows cause of MS office and him being a business executive.

My 25yo brother... I got him to use linux for a bit... and I partly did it cause I know he has a gambling problem and he would play those poker games a lot and I knew they wouldn't be compatible... well.. he obviously figured that out pretty fast and it was about 2 months later that windows went back on... but.. I'm surprised it went that long, I was pretty impressed. He was modifying the themes and all that jazz.

My 18yo sister, recently bought a macbook air... "it looks really pretty", she likes it. she wont change.

On the otherhand, I only boot into windows when it is required (when literally there are no alternatives) for school. For example, when I have an in class test and we have to take it using our laptops that we are forced to lease from the university using their special anti cheating web browser.... or when we are doing other things are that 100% specific to a windows application... ie if the topic of the lesson is literally "visio"... well, then I have to... all though... I have followed along translating the visio instructions into umbrello (shhhhh haha).

aysiu
November 3rd, 2009, 09:40 PM
If I'm going to do anything remotely like evangelizing, it would be in the form of making known to Windows- and Mac-using folks the available of quality open source Windows and Mac programs.

If we can get Windows and Mac users using Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, GIMP, FileZilla, Adium, and Pidgin, I'm sure they'd be a lot more open to using Ubuntu or another Linux distribution later... or even if they're not, at least more people will be using open source.

If "everyone" were using OpenOffice then the people who decided themselves to switch to Ubuntu (without switching others) would have an easier time of it, since they wouldn't have to worry as much about file formats and compatibility when exchanging documents with others.

ZankerH
November 3rd, 2009, 09:50 PM
I don't really talk about ubuntu and GNU/Linux in general in RL that much. I mention it if the topic happens to come up in casual conversation, but I don't do evangelising.

Other than that, I don't view it as switching users to GNU/Linux. Users by themselves are (the majority of them) clueless. GNU/Linux use is measured by the amount of computers running it, and that's how you should look at it. When switching the computer from a proprietary OS, the users that use it are just one of the considerations you should make before you decide whether or not to switch the OS. For example, visiting my parents, my brother noticed the OS on my laptop (Arch GNU/Linux) and thought it looked cool. This sparked a social conversation (which I'm not typically good at, unless it involves a matter I'm familiar with, which in this case it did), and the parents agreed to let me install Ubuntu on the only PC in the house, which is a living room media-PC that only ever gets used to play DVDs and music, and browse the internet.

A somewhat different example was my cousin. He is more of a PC/tech expert, and owns and regularly works with a diverse set of hardware (apple laptop, an Atom-based netbook, a mid-range desktop PC and several older PCs converted to server duty). Eventually, the complexity imposed by having to make several proprietary OSes work and play nice with each other became overwhelming, and he decided to go for a single-OS, Free solution. Other than mentioning the possibility and pointing him to the documentation, I was hardly involved in that switch at all.

bonfire89
November 3rd, 2009, 09:51 PM
If "everyone" were using OpenOffice then the people who decided themselves to switch to Ubuntu (without switching others) would have an easier time of it, since they wouldn't have to worry as much about file formats and compatibility when exchanging documents with others.


Absolutely!

MS Office, Photoshop and games seem to be the biggest issue.

Without a doubt if OO were more popular under windows there be FAR less of an issue. And I mean FAR, not far.

I really like your thinking. Make the switch a two step process. Fist influence them to use open source applications, and once that happens, moving to ubuntu would literally be a breeze.

I don't think people are committed to windows, people are committed to windows applications.

Twitch6000
November 3rd, 2009, 09:53 PM
I don't think people are committed to windows, people are committed to windows applications.

That is 100% correct. I have seen many people said they would switch if they could run such apps.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 10:29 PM
Which brings the Cloud to my mind.

1roxtar
November 3rd, 2009, 10:56 PM
I say "YES" for so many reasons. Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is ready for the masses. It's easier to use and quicker to setup than a Windows install (searching for and downloading drivers, antivirus/spyware programs, firewalls). Ubuntu searches for your hardware and installs/updates drivers automatically, no need to install antivirus/spyware programs (a big seller) and security is so much tighter. Mozilla Firefox kills IE. Ubuntu Software Center makes finding programs easier (for FREE), easy to install and less confusing to uninstall. Video is no longer choppy thanks to new Intel improvements. Having an office suite out-of-the-box is a sweet thing too. I would rather help my friends tweak Ubuntu than to be constantly called because of Windows' virus issues and breaking it so easily through user ignorance. Thanks to Karmic, I can't find any reasons to say "no".

aysiu
November 3rd, 2009, 11:01 PM
I say "YES" for so many reasons. Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is ready for the masses. It's easier to use and quicker to setup than a Windows install (searching for and downloading drivers, antivirus/spyware programs, firewalls). Ubuntu searches for your hardware and installs/updates drivers automatically, no need to install antivirus/spyware programs (a big seller) and security is so much tighter. Mozilla Firefox kills IE. Ubuntu Software Center makes finding programs easier (for FREE), easy to install and less confusing to uninstall. Video is no longer choppy thanks to new Intel improvements. Having an office suite out-of-the-box is a sweet thing too. I would rather help my friends tweak Ubuntu than to be constantly called because of Windows' virus issues and breaking it so easily through user ignorance. Thanks to Karmic, I can't find any reasons to say "no".
Do any of your friends and family have iPhones or iPod Touches?

Those are quite popular where I live, and I wouldn't feel comfortable pretending that the iPhone or iPod Touch experience in Ubuntu is as seamless as it is for Windows and Mac (which both have native iTunes clients).

I got an Android phone specifically because it works well with Linux. Not everyone cares about buying stuff to work with Linux, though.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 11:19 PM
Most people don't install & setup their own windows systems. They buy pre-installed systems. I've known people to go & buy a new computer because windows had become corrupt.

I think Mint is a great place for a first time computer user to start.

The only person I've caused to go to Linux, was a born geek anyway.

Digikid
November 3rd, 2009, 11:25 PM
Absolutely NOT. This has got to be the most buggy version of Ubuntu yet. Sound issues, Power Saving/Hibernating Issues,Bootloader Issues.....apparently the beta testers did not to a through enough job in this release. This is more like a release of Windows then a LInux distro that "Just Works".

I am sorry to say this but seriously....this release is anything but "just works" it is the complete opposite of it.

At least with Windows it is easy to fix the problem.

Better luck next time Ubuntu. Maybe next time your beta testers or QC will do a much better job.

aysiu
November 3rd, 2009, 11:26 PM
At least with Windows it is easy to fix the problem. So now you're making jokes?

KiwiNZ
November 3rd, 2009, 11:40 PM
Absolutely NOT. This has got to be the most buggy version of Ubuntu yet. Sound issues, Power Saving/Hibernating Issues,Bootloader Issues.....apparently the beta testers did not to a through enough job in this release. This is more like a release of Windows then a LInux distro that "Just Works".

I am sorry to say this but seriously....this release is anything but "just works" it is the complete opposite of it.

At least with Windows it is easy to fix the problem.

Better luck next time Ubuntu. Maybe next time your beta testers or QC will do a much better job.

I will recommend you read again our code of conduct , and pay particular attention to the parts relating to trolling and flaming.

tacantara
November 3rd, 2009, 11:49 PM
This is actually a good question, as I'm considering working on my Mom's computer. She has a desktop that literally crawls along under XP. Although a memory boost and a good disk cleaning & defrag might improve performance, it won't be long before it is running in slug mode. I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu (or any Linux distro) to her as a replacement for Windows, because she has programs that have no Linux equivalent.

My plan is to introduce her to Ubuntu through the Live CD, and explain that web browsing and checking e-mail is not much different in Ubuntu than in Windows, except for that it is faster and safer. If she feels comfortable with it, I will set up a dual-boot system and show her how to switch between Ubuntu and Windows.

lykwydchykyn
November 3rd, 2009, 11:51 PM
I wouldn't "recommend" it in the sense of telling everyone they need to rip & replace on their own "because I said so".

However... when opportunities arise I've set it up for family members as an option, and the reception has been positive.

For example, last month a friend gave me an old laptop that he said Windows wouldn't install on. So (fearing I'd have to give it back if I actually managed to get Windows installed) I put Xubuntu on it, tweaked it up to my spec (codecs, apps, etc), and gave it to my (non-computer-savvy) mother-in-law since they'd been wanting to replace their ancient windows-ME laptop but couldn't afford to.

She's loving it. It does what she needs. She's not going to be upgrading it to Karmic on her own, or swapping out the desktop environment. She just uses it as-is to do simple stuff. When we go to visit I'll probably apply updates and fix whatever little functionality gaps they're having.

Now, on the other hand, my Mom has a machine running Win XP she's very frustrated with, but I'm not recommending Ubuntu or Linux because she needs to run Adobe CS, Office, and a bunch of other Windows-specific stuff (yeah, I know some of it runs in Wine, but I don't wanna go there). She's also on dial-up, and much farther away so I can't just pop in and fix stuff up for her.

As for my own family (wife + kids), we all use some form of Linux distro and everyone's pretty happy with it. Mostly because I handle the admin aspects myself.

Zoot7
November 3rd, 2009, 11:59 PM
I say "YES" for so many reasons. Ubuntu 9.10 Karmic Koala is ready for the masses. It's easier to use and quicker to setup than a Windows install (searching for and downloading drivers, antivirus/spyware programs, firewalls). Ubuntu searches for your hardware and installs/updates drivers automatically, no need to install antivirus/spyware programs (a big seller) and security is so much tighter. Mozilla Firefox kills IE. Ubuntu Software Center makes finding programs easier (for FREE), easy to install and less confusing to uninstall. Video is no longer choppy thanks to new Intel improvements. Having an office suite out-of-the-box is a sweet thing too. I would rather help my friends tweak Ubuntu than to be constantly called because of Windows' virus issues and breaking it so easily through user ignorance. Thanks to Karmic, I can't find any reasons to say "no".
I agree with everything, except about Karmic being ready for the masses. I love Ubuntu but I won't pretend it's ready for mass adoption until maybe 3-5 weeks after release.
Hardy is what I've set up others with, I just make damn full sure it works for all their needs before I turn it over to them.

Sorry for being technical. :p

1roxtar
November 4th, 2009, 02:55 AM
I'm a tech and I do the same things with Windows users whenever they need me to fix or upgrade their computers. I come across many customers who are advised to ditch their systems and get newer ones simply because of virus slowdowns or breakdowns. The instances that I have suggested they try out Linux/Ubuntu is when their computer is completely crashed and they don't have a product key sticker on their machine. I've installed Jaunty with all the little extras and updates and had them test it out for a week. If they didn't like it, then I'd suggest they do get a new computer or purchase a Windows disc. Each time, they have kept it and enjoyed having a working computer again. I've been testing Karmic since the Alpha releases on several machines....desktops, laptops, netbooks...and feel confident that Karmic really IS ready for the masses. I'm not afraid that it will fail them. So far, it has intrigued more than warded off people I have shown Ubuntu to.

drawkcab
November 4th, 2009, 04:45 AM
My gf saw me running eeebuntu on my eeepc and asked me to install linux on her HP mini because it "looks cool and runs faster." So I reluctantly installed Mint after explaining that Linux isn't windows, yada yada.

Anyway, she completely fell in love with it and is now a huge Linux nerd. I'm not kidding when I say that all she did for about three weeks is research Linux.

Khakilang
November 4th, 2009, 06:04 AM
I got clients still using Window 98 cos their software can't run on Window XP. Surely I will recommend if they don't have any software tied down.

1roxtar
November 4th, 2009, 07:35 AM
I got clients still using Window 98 cos their software can't run on Window XP. Surely I will recommend if they don't have any software tied down.

I would recommend you showing them Xubuntu. The XFCE desktop works better on older computers. I tried it on an old IBM Thinkpad laptop with a Pentium II processor and 384mb of RAM (it doesn't have an ethernet port, only a modem port. I had to get a PCI card with ethernet port) and it runs nicely.

toupeiro
November 4th, 2009, 07:36 AM
replacement? No. Alternative? Yes. I am working out of town today. Soon as I get back I am helping yet another friend install ubuntu who is sick of windows. I set it up on his Wife's laptop some months ago, which gave him time to check it out and he's totally sold. That will mark number 50 for me for people who I've introduced ubuntu to that have installed. All but two who have have stayed with ubuntu. The software sells itself. I'm just a delivery boy.

TheOnlyMrK
November 4th, 2009, 07:46 AM
Wow. It amazes me how many people here are afraid/refuse to recommend Ubuntu to other people. No wonder Linux is the unheard of operating system. o.o; To everyone that says they wouldn't recommend it because it "isn't ready as a full OS" or they'd have toomany problems because it isn't Windows compatible I'm sorry but you're wrong. I've gotten over 5people to switch to Ubuntu in the past year and after the first day of me showing them the basics they loved it. I did not "force" them into it. They kept complaining about their computer being slow, crashing, or getting viruses and I said "I use Ubuntu, it's not the easiest to learn at first but if you're able to get used to it you'll love it, for one their are no virus's." and I used the "Install Inside Windows" option so they could try it. After all, that *is* why that option is there. The funny part is I've only been using Ubuntu/Linux a few months and already know enough to generally use/fix the computer.

fancypiper
November 4th, 2009, 08:25 AM
I recommend Ubuntu or some other distribution to anyone that asks me about computers or the Linux T shirts that I wear.

I have two converts, one to Ubuntu, the other SuSE and both are loving it and they don't use Windows now unless they go to the public library that runs Windows.

None of my family has wanted to try it, even though I offered to install it as dual boot. They continue to suffer with Microsoft.

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 4th, 2009, 08:37 AM
Anyway, she completely fell in love with it and is now a huge Linux nerd. I'm not kidding when I say that all she did for about three weeks is research Linux.
Haha. I wish I could get my gf to use Linux. She's got a Macbook Air that she's totally in love with though. I hate Mac. :lolflag:

lethalfang
November 4th, 2009, 08:59 AM
Many people need Outlook Express set up for them.

This is why I say, if someone is already using whatever system, leave them to it, why make life harder for them, their strengths lay somewhere else, not in the computer techno-sphere.

Horses for courses. (did some already say that in this thread?)

That's a great point, which is why I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu to those who are totally computer illiterate, e.g., my older relatives.
They are more likely to ask help from those who are slightly more technologically competent, and as such they are more likely to receive help on Windows.
I can't be around to show them how to bookmark their favorite website or how to change their download directory every time!

murderslastcrow
November 4th, 2009, 09:16 AM
If someone's interested, I would first off ask what they do on a computer on a daily basis, and what they want to do with it. If you are knowledgeable enough of Linux, you'll know if it will suit their needs, and can make several recommendations for things that will improve their experience in Linux, rather than merely mimic what they're used to.

Of course, you want to educate them about what it is and the differences. Don't just boast about it and lay it on them. Make sure they know how different it really is, and to expect to learn a few new things and ways of doing things.

And if they really aren't interested, it's not that bad. Linux will come around, it always has, and we tend to be a few steps ahead at all times. I think that Linux dominance may be the best decision if it is handled correctly, and the open source community is well aware of and thinks deeply about the pertinent issues in adoption and what the future of Linux should be.

There would have to be some revolutionary invention in personal computing to ever lay waste to Linux, so I don't think we should be so worried about converting everybody. It should be only when it is beneficial to the user (which happens to be quite often).

handy
November 4th, 2009, 09:49 AM
I am all for everyone leaving the evil empire. :)

The OP's question, is, what it is.

I would only recommend any form of Linux (including Mint) to someone who I thought could handle it; & handle it in every shape & form, without my having to take phone calls & emails from them that required my assistance to solve their Linux problems. (You bet, I have become lazy like that.)

So far, in my Linux life of about 4 years at this point in time, I have only met one person that I would recommend Linux to, & I picked correctly as they became a happy Linux user.

In that same amount of time I have created 6 new Mac users that were previously my customers & friends, they all used to use windows.

Everyone is happy (both Linux & Mac users), I have created no more stress than any of them were capable of handling & I didn't get phone calls or emails requesting help from any of them.

The OP's question is worth considering before you answer the question.

Broad sweeping generalisations given as answers to the question, are unfortunately generally based on chauvinistic thought, & do nought but display small minded bias.

Such bias serves only to boost the egotistical beliefs of those which are currently beyond embracing the conception that ultimately we are all truly sharing something very similar.

I fail to see any harm in that. :KS

KiwiNZ
November 4th, 2009, 09:55 AM
I recommend Ubuntu if it meets their needs, the same with MacOS , Windows.

handy
November 4th, 2009, 09:58 AM
I recommend Ubuntu if it meets their needs, the same with MacOS , Windows.

Do you also recommend same, with the intention of supplying the required support?

LookTJ
November 4th, 2009, 10:04 AM
Do you also recommend same, with the intention of supplying the required support?
I would refer them here.

Otherwise, if they have no intentions of signing up for a forum account, then yes I would supply them support(with my intentions of putting them into a group on my Google Voice account so they can't bother me at night when they call). They can email me anytime as well. Yes I am that willing. :)

KiwiNZ
November 4th, 2009, 10:05 AM
Yes , I never recommend and cast adrift. I always back up with support.

note32
November 4th, 2009, 10:06 AM
yes i would,;) and already do

LookTJ
November 4th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Yes , I never recommend and cast adrift. I always back up with support.
I'm pretty sure handy meant tech support? not factual support?:confused:

KiwiNZ
November 4th, 2009, 10:14 AM
I'm pretty sure handy meant tech support? not factual support?:confused:

I know that and my answer was precisely for that . Tech support is NOT casting adrift.

handy
November 4th, 2009, 10:15 AM
I would refer them here.

Otherwise, if they have no intentions of signing up for a forum account, then yes I would supply them support(with my intentions of putting them into a group on my Google Voice account so they can't bother me at night when they call). They can email me anytime as well. Yes I am that willing. :)


Yes , I never recommend and cast adrift. I always back up with support.

Good on you both.

I would have once, but I am obviously burnt out re, supplying support anymore.

The day I closed my windows support business was roughly the day that the house became windows free & I started down the Linux path.

After 4 years... You don't want to let me near a windows machine, I could really do some damage, even though I would have the intention of doing the opposite. :)

So the summary of this conversation is, (in my view):

Don't recommend Linux to anyone unless you are prepared to hold their hand through to the point where they are autonomous Linux users. (Even if that means they know how to get & interpret what they get off the web.)

KiwiNZ
November 4th, 2009, 10:18 AM
Good on you both.

I would have once, but I am obviously burnt out re, supplying support anymore.

The day I closed my windows support business was roughly the day that the house became windows free & I started down the Linux path.

After 4 years... You don't want to let me near a windows machine, I could really do some damage, even though I would have the intention of doing the opposite. :)

So the summary of this conversation is, (in my view):

Don't recommend Linux to anyone unless you are prepared to hold their hand through to the point where they are autonomous Linux users. (Even if that means they know how to get & interpret what they get off the web.)

hahaha

I still know my way around windows , my MS quals still current . Although I wont be certifying in Win7

handy
November 4th, 2009, 10:34 AM
hahaha

I still know my way around windows , my MS quals still current . Although I wont be certifying in Win7

Good luck to you Mike.

As you would expect, I have to say I don't envy you. I was SO over windows a couple of years before the end of 2005 when I retired from having to live with it day & night.

That said.

I'm a long way past reacting to it now. MS are just another corporation.

I do my reacting to the corporate mentality, not the individual corporations these days.

Probably all a waste of time in the end. I probably would be better off to just go & get fat, perpetually drunk & die of a heart attack due to the amount of cheese I ate! :lolflag:

We do need a reason though don't we? :D

abickerton
November 4th, 2009, 10:44 AM
In short, NO.

It's human nature to want the latest and greatest, so they'll update as soon as a piece of software is released. While my response may be tainted by my most recent upgrade experience, I feel that the stability of the newest release is not what it should be. Too many things to go wrong, too many scary dependencies on special packages etc. It'd be a tech support nightmare.

An example.
I don't know anyone who uses a Palm device anymore, so an end user (we'll call Dave) would want to remove this.

Dave googles how to add remove packages and finds he needs to use something called synaptic.

Dave opens Synaptic.
Time passes... (while he tries to work out the interface)
Dave types Palm in to Quick Search... 35 items are listed.
Time passes... (Dave is trying to work out which package it is)
Dave notices the left column and clicks installed... (3 packages are shown, None of which match what is shown on the menu)

gnome-pilot-conduits
libopenobex1
gnome-pilot


Time passes...
Dave makes a best guess and selects gnome-pilot.
Time passes... ( Dave tries to locate the remove option )
Dave select complete removal and another dialog opens telling him gnome-pilot-conduits will be removed.

Time passes... Dave is unsure if this is safe to remove. the package description simple reads "conduits for gnome-pilot"
Time passes ... the dialog does not give an the Cancel, OK dialog like the one in windows he's used to. only Cancel & Mark.
Dave selects mark..
Why are they now shown in different colours?
Dave selects Apply... Another dialog... Dave now wonders if this ever end.... Clicks Apply.

Finally... The package is gone.

Imagine what would happen if the package deps mentioned "ubuntu-desktop"... look back in the forum and you'll see this keeps on coming up.

Quite frankly, I wouldn't want the problems of support with this kind of thing.

mivo
November 4th, 2009, 10:57 AM
So, what would you do ? install Ubuntu or let them suffer with Windows....

Windows 7 is so good, there is no suffering. Looking at 9.10, now, that is suffering, and the reason why I would not recommend Ubuntu to anyone currently. I use it still on one machine (Arch for other boxes, and one W7 desktop). I can't recommend something that breaks something new with every release and doesn't fix old bugs, because in the end it'll be me having to fix it for people who got it because of me. I sort of switched to giving away OpenSuSE and Chakra CDs if someone shows interest in Linux.

Don't get me wrong. I do believe the philosophy of Ubuntu is great and noteworthy, and I believe Ubuntu has the foundation, the user base and the backup to help increase the Linux market share and continue as a flagship. However, quality has been suffering and new releases feel rushed and like beta versions. It is unacceptable that the issue with USB modems got reported before release, and then was classified as "medium" importance. Connectivity should always be of top importance, because if your users can't get online, they can't get fixes.

Dist upgrade needs to be improved, because no average desktop user will reinstall every six months or be satisfied with old and dated software. Until dist upgrade works as reliably as Windows service packs, there are severe limits to whom I can recommend Ubuntu. This has been an issue for years, but it's not addressed. Instead we get more eye candy, a new IM that no one asked for, etc.

synicalx
November 4th, 2009, 11:16 AM
At the moment I wouldn't recommend Ubuntu to anyone other than a few friends of mine who are highly computer literate and won't need me to Google things for them. Main reason being I'm newish to Ubuntu myself so I wouldn't be much use if something went drastically wrong :D

That and Windows 7 has been exemplary on my gaming rig so far, it's fast (relative to Vista and Ubuntu), it's nicked some of Mac's best ideas (searching, widgets), gotten rid of all Vista's uhhh... "moments" and it has DirectX 11 which actually does something useful unlike DX10.

However, I have installed Ubuntu Netbook Remix on my mum's EEEPC which has gone fine so far. She's liking the simplistic interface and all, still types like a senior though :p

Pasdar
November 4th, 2009, 11:17 AM
People shouldn't fool themselves. Windows definitely DOES provide the superior desktop experience and MAC even outdoes Windows. This has to do with many reason, some which are the fault of the developers/designers themselves and some that can not be blamed on them.

Ubuntu is better than XP, but its definitely NOT better than either VISTA or (absolutely not even near) 7 in terms of desktop experience.

Canonical is attempting to do too many things at the same time (their activities in many fields). I don't blame them though, you can not break even with an open source desktop OS of which there are 17.000+ distro's and counting.

If you make a list of what the advantages and disadvantages of each OS are, you'll notice that Ubuntu/Linux currently has two/three advantages over the other reason. With the most import being (for joe average), that it's free.... that's not good enough...

Student these days want their MSN/Yahoo menssenger, they want it to have all the flashy features too. They want their OS to look AT LEAST as good as the student sitting next to them at the library... otherwise they'll be embarrassed to bring their laptop. They want all this, and they want it to be damn easy too without having to change or tweak anything!!!... MOST users do not change ANYTHING other than their wallpaper...!! even if there are also three color themes in VISTA and more in 7... general users do not even go into those options... Ubuntu fails miserably on that too.

At the pace and weird priorities Mark Shuttleworth is setting for Ubuntu, I don't see this happening in 10 years from now, or maybe even ever... Ubuntu is setting itself up to being the next Red Hat.

However I am hopeful because of Google... Google has never failed its users with the applications they provide... let's hope they don't break that trend with Chrome OS.

LookTJ
November 4th, 2009, 11:53 AM
People shouldn't fool themselves. Windows definitely DOES provide the superior desktop experience and MAC even outdoes Windows. This has to do with many reason, some which are the fault of the developers/designers themselves and some that can not be blamed on them.

Ubuntu is better than XP, but its definitely NOT better than either VISTA or (absolutely not even near) 7 in terms of desktop experience.

Canonical is attempting to do too many things at the same time (their activities in many fields). I don't blame them though, you can not break even with an open source desktop OS of which there are 17.000+ distro's and counting.

If you make a list of what the advantages and disadvantages of each OS are, you'll notice that Ubuntu/Linux currently has two/three advantages over the other reason. With the most import being (for joe average), that it's free.... that's not good enough...

Student these days want their MSN/Yahoo menssenger, they want it to have all the flashy features too. They want their OS to look AT LEAST as good as the student sitting next to them at the library... otherwise they'll be embarrassed to bring their laptop. They want all this, and they want it to be damn easy too without having to change or tweak anything!!!... MOST users do not change ANYTHING other than their wallpaper...!! even if there are also three color themes in VISTA and more in 7... general users do not even go into those options... Ubuntu fails miserably on that too.

Read what you said. You said general users, so these are the kind of people who have no clue what antivirus to run, so they buy it at the store based on the salesperson' experience. Sure OSX beats Windows for the general user, but is Windows or Linux better for them? The general user are those who chat/IM, surf the web, and check their email. They change the wallpaper, that's usually all they care about.

Windows - viruses caught from spam through emails/facebook/im/etc.
Linux - Few?
OSX - Few?

My sister hates running an antivirus, still catches viruses, uses internet explorer, limewire, does not change her wallpaper, and write documents. She is a college student as well.

I agree that Canonical needs to work on improving the upgrade process. That's no argument. But a fresh install on Windows for the general user, is usually every 3-6 months due to viruses and other crap, since that is their only solution according to them.

People that work are provided their needs by the company they work for/and or own.


There's a bunch of other stuff I would love to counter. but it's late and I'm tired.

But what's to say, we all have different perceptions of what the general user does and want.

Have a nice night/morning/afternoon.

handy
November 4th, 2009, 12:01 PM
All in all, people forget the parameters of the question here.

Which is understandable.

It IS so easy to be giving the wrong answer to the question.

All the wrong answer to the question need, to survive & maintain credibility here, is a little framing, so they are seen from just the right angle, again, maybe... :)

kio_http
November 4th, 2009, 02:28 PM
Depends on the person. E.g gamers will be very disappointed with Ubuntu

longtom
November 4th, 2009, 03:50 PM
If somebody asks me and is prepared to go an extra mile, which is certainly needed in Ubuntu, I will help out where I can. Recommend hardware, gauge their needs and give them a hand until they are happy.

But sticking my head out and suggest replacement - absolutely not. Ubuntu is an OS for a geeky sort of person, who is prepared to sit on a problem when it occurs and does not through up both arms in despair with even more serious problems - like no more internet.

These people are not as common as we, in our Ubuntu forum world, might think. They are few and far between...

I haven't met one yet (my little son excluded....)

lykwydchykyn
November 4th, 2009, 04:05 PM
People shouldn't fool themselves. Windows definitely DOES provide the superior desktop experience and MAC even outdoes Windows. This has to do with many reason, some which are the fault of the developers/designers themselves and some that can not be blamed on them.


I'm going to have to keep fooling myself, sorry. Is it really unthinkable to you that people prefer KDE or GNOME to Windows?

Pasdar
November 4th, 2009, 04:34 PM
I'm going to have to keep fooling myself, sorry. Is it really unthinkable to you that people prefer KDE or GNOME to Windows?
First of all, you should know that I only use Ubuntu, and dont either dual boot or load windows in virtual. (though im on a windows PC right now -> its not mine).

Lemme make a table for ya:

Visual integration of programs:
1. Win7 & KDE
2. GNOME

General beauty of DE:
1. Win7 & KDE (GNOME, only with MANY changes, otherwise its 2.)

Reaction speed to any action on DE (e.g. opening program or right click menu, whatever):
1. Win7
2. KDE
3. GNOME

Web experience (Fault of Apple and Adobe):
1. Win7
2. KDE/GNOME/Linux

I can continue.... so yes, because of a multiplicity of reasons win7 will give the user a superior desktop entertainment experience... but who knows, if we get HTML5 video support and Canonical ups its game... we get better X.org, etc, etc... we might end up num1 on everything

xuCGC002
November 4th, 2009, 04:46 PM
but who knows, if we get HTML5 video support and Canonical ups its game... we get better X.org, etc, etc... we might end up num1 on everything

#1 on everything? On your personal list compiled of your personal opinions?

Pasdar
November 4th, 2009, 04:55 PM
#1 on everything? On your personal list compiled of your personal opinions?

There are 1.31 billion internet users according stats on the internet. 88.5% of these use Windows according to the most modest statistics (in favor of Linux).. That's 1.15 billion people using windows... do you really think that thats because only because PCs were pre-installed with windows? How about you show the three to some random person in a library or something (a teenager) and let them fiddle a little with it.... then get ready for the disappointing feedback...

aysiu
November 4th, 2009, 05:00 PM
do you really think that thats because only because PCs were pre-installed with windows? That is probably the largest contributing factor, yes.

sanderella
November 4th, 2009, 08:00 PM
Yes, I do already.:KS

billmoseley
November 4th, 2009, 09:02 PM
I'd recommend Ubuntu to friends and family if we could get reliable MS Office compatibility. Open Office is pretty worthless for most of the people I know who don't have time to fix layout problems. OO sucks in a lot more ways, but that's really the dealbreaker. They advertise MS compatibility, but the don't deliver. I'd say that's all that would hold me back from recommending Ubuntu right now. Most other issues with Linux and Ubuntu can be pretty easily fixed for most users. And once their hardware's set up and they have codecs and stuff, there's not much else they'll ever really need to do.

That said, I did convince my wife to get a EEEPc with Linux instead of Windows XP. In that case, though, she's got office compatibility through her other computer, so it's not really an issue.

aysiu
November 4th, 2009, 09:04 PM
I'd recommend Ubuntu to friends and family if we could get reliable MS Office compatibility. Open Office is pretty worthless for most of the people I know who don't have time to fix layout problems. Sounds like a compelling case for recommending OpenOffice to friends and family instead of Ubuntu.

pwnst*r
November 4th, 2009, 09:16 PM
So, what would you do ? install Ubuntu or let them suffer with Windows....

why is it "suffering" with windows? also, i would hope you'd suggest dual booting. pretty ridiculous to format the entire drive for ubuntu.

juancarlospaco
November 4th, 2009, 09:19 PM
YES, everyone needs a replacement for Legacy Technology...

-grubby
November 4th, 2009, 09:21 PM
If they were having horrible problems with Windows, I'd refer them to OS X, and vice versa.

murderslastcrow
November 4th, 2009, 09:25 PM
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that Microsoft Office 2007 works under Wine? Also, I haven't had any layout issues with my business friends in OpenOffice (or at least, no one has mentioned or seen anything mess up?).

But I'll take your word for it on the OOo compatibility, but the new version of Office will support ODF so I don't see this is a dealbreaker. I'm surprised that more people aren't using OOo on Windows. I guess Windows users are just used to piracy (since a great portion of them are using pirated Windows, after all), so looking for alternatives isn't exactly their first course of action.

Windows 7 is responsive, sure, and KDE is seeming faster than Gnome these days (by a tad). There have been a lot of discussions of how Gnome shouldn't be slow at all. I think it will improve, though. The speed enhancements are the thing I want from Gnome 3. Screw Gnome-Shell.

P.S. Windows 7 on the same system as Ubuntu seems to be slower in many cases. The one thing I can recognize as a bit slower is the first startup of Nautilus vs. Explorer (which, as I understand it, is always running in the background as it's part of the shell in Windows).

pwnst*r
November 4th, 2009, 09:31 PM
Sounds like a compelling case for recommending OpenOffice to friends and family instead of Ubuntu.

not if they use MS office at work.

juancarlospaco
November 4th, 2009, 09:37 PM
Reaction speed to any action on DE (e.g. opening program or right click menu, whatever):
1. Win7
2. KDE
3. GNOME


Fresh Installed.

But on systems with HEAVY work for months, its like:

Reaction speed to any action on DE (e.g. opening program or right click menu, whatever):
1. KDE/GNOME
2.
3.
...
10
...
100
...
124. Win7

You know its True.
:)

aysiu
November 4th, 2009, 09:39 PM
not if they use MS office at work.
Sounds like a compelling case for recommending OpenOffice for their workplace.

pwnst*r
November 4th, 2009, 09:39 PM
Fresh Installed.

But on systems with HEAVY work for months, its like:

Reaction speed to any action on DE (e.g. opening program or right click menu, whatever):
1. KDE/GNOME
2.
3.
...
10
...
100
...
124. Win7

You know its True.
:)

it's as true as you not exaggerating.

mivo
November 4th, 2009, 09:58 PM
You know its True.:)

No, not in my experience. I kept XP fast for years, and I didn't even have to reinstall every six months, because Service Packs didn't break the system. It isn't so hard to maintain your system if you are willing to learn. Same as with Linux. W7, I had for a couple months now, so it is too early to say much, but so far I see no indication that it slows down. I haven't done any maintenance either. Time will tell.

To me, Windows is just another OS. I disagree with Microsoft's business practices, but I think their OSes are the best choice for a great many people. I put much more effort into recommending open source apps like OOo, Gimp, Pidgin, VLC, etc. to people. That is one way to independence from any specific OS, and will, in the long run, allow for real choice.

lukjad007
November 4th, 2009, 10:22 PM
I would, I did, I won.

Digikid
November 6th, 2009, 11:25 PM
I will recommend you read again our code of conduct , and pay particular attention to the parts relating to trolling and flaming.


Not at all. I say things as they are....and I was expressing my personal opinion and experience with your product.

As for the other Ubuntu member that remarked with making jokes....also not at all. With Windows you just install the driver with two clicks. No muss no fuss and its done. No joking. With Synaptic yes it is just as easy.....IF the driver is there....which in my experience with Ubuntu....it is not.

Take it as you will.....however I was not in any way Trolling or Flaming.

TheNessus
November 6th, 2009, 11:28 PM
I don't recommend Linux use to anyone unless they are technical experienced and looking for an alternative or ask me about Linux cause they are interested in learning.

I don't think its good to push Linux to people who are not ready.

I would say that quote for people who going to use Windows :)
In windows they can **** things up without even knowing why. Not so in benign OS's like Ubuntu.

NightwishFan
November 7th, 2009, 03:49 PM
I have never really noticed Windows slow down itself much, except for when your overall stability goes down over time. Windows is slow to begin with, please realize not everyone has ridiculously modern hardware. The same is true for a linux system possibly, its just I can actually learn how to fix one.

coldReactive
November 7th, 2009, 04:00 PM
I've tried it already, but failed because I told them they'd have to jump through hoops to get their precious microsoft windows programs running.

jeffus_il
November 7th, 2009, 04:09 PM
Well not replace, that's a little insulting to Ubuntu, I would recommend an upgrade (moving to something better) . The change involves breaking barriers, people want what they are used to so they need lots of hand holding initially. Actually Ubuntu is much easier for them to use in the mediam term. One reason being that they don't have to install suspicious software from the internet, it's all in the repository. Also there is less downtime and better performance when you don't have buggy anti-virus and spyware running all the time.

xtremesupremacy3
November 7th, 2009, 05:32 PM
What ya mean would I?!

I already have, half of my school class has converted (much to the dismay of the teacher), half the family now has and all my friends. I am an ambassador of Ubuntu I tell ya!

praveesh
November 7th, 2009, 05:43 PM
Great work . What would you tell the others ?. Why do they want to use Ubuntu. ?

mivo
November 7th, 2009, 06:14 PM
I've tried it already, but failed because I told them they'd have to jump through hoops to get their precious microsoft windows programs running.

This is why you start with recommending open source software like Open Office, Thunderbird, Pidgin, Gimp, etc. Most of the "big" and most commonly used Linux applications exist for Windows, too. It is easier to switch the OS if you can continue using your familiar programs, keep the data, etc.

(But then again, Linux isn't for everyone. In the current state, it is only for relatively few people, and many people are better off using Windows 7. But things always improve, and mindsets change, so getting people to use open source software is a win-win approach in any event. :))

NFblaze
November 7th, 2009, 06:23 PM
I've often thought about it but most of the people I know are completely technically inept. I dont think I could give it to anyone who has been accustomed to Windows because it would be a new learning curve that I dont think they would be willing to complete. NOw, on the other hand I dont think I would have any qualms giving it to a user who has never touched or has extremely limited usage with an operating system as those people wont get confused by the "old way" of doing things, and will less expectations for something to "work like $OS", which leads to less hassle down the line.

NightwishFan
November 9th, 2009, 08:10 PM
The system admin at my local library told me he was glad I was into Linux. He also set up a Fedora box for the library card catalog search. He told me, however, that the desktops should be Windows because people would not be familiar with Linux. I think that is wrong. Half the people in there barely use a computer. The difference would be negligible. A public library is the perfect place for free software.

The way they secure Windows is by practically reinstalling it every time it boots. That way all the software is reset and the files anyone may have accumulated are deleted. The equivalent in Ubuntu would be purging the home folder, which would allow to keep up with upgrades. They still have Firerfox 3.01.

MasterNetra
November 9th, 2009, 08:11 PM
Yes, I would recommend it.

mwalimu54
November 10th, 2009, 01:59 AM
This should be a poll (I love polls). It would depend on their needs. They must have:

1. a high-speed internet connection
2. no gaming addictions
3. no strong dependence on proprietary software
4. a spirit of adventure

coldReactive
November 10th, 2009, 02:05 AM
This is why you start with recommending open source software like Open Office, Thunderbird, Pidgin, Gimp, etc. Most of the "big" and most commonly used Linux applications exist for Windows, too. It is easier to switch the OS if you can continue using your familiar programs, keep the data, etc.

(But then again, Linux isn't for everyone. In the current state, it is only for relatively few people, and many people are better off using Windows 7. But things always improve, and mindsets change, so getting people to use open source software is a win-win approach in any event. :))

They use norton. They don't know how an operating system can be virus-free, they use Microsoft Word.

They don't have plans to migrate from any of that. My father knows about linux, so he knows that it's no use to him.

lykwydchykyn
November 10th, 2009, 04:16 AM
This should be a poll (I love polls). It would depend on their needs. They must have:

1. a high-speed internet connection
2. no gaming addictions
3. no strong dependence on proprietary software
4. a spirit of adventure

I'll second that list. Though, number 4 is optional if you can get it set up with what they need from the get-go.

I have to admit I never have -- and hope I never have to -- set up dial-up internet on a Linux machine.

And big-time gamers are a lost cause IMHO. The ones I know cannot comprehend why you would use a computer that cannot play the latest blockbuster games any more than they can comprehend using a computer without a high-dollar high-powered video card.

coldReactive
November 10th, 2009, 04:18 AM
I have to admit I never have -- and hope I never have to -- set up dial-up internet on a Linux machine.

Tried, failed, tried a different way, failed.

ppp wouldn't even start up at all even though I installed it properly.

ExSuSEusr
November 10th, 2009, 04:23 AM
I would not. Most of the people I know aren't into computers like those of us posting in this forum. I would suggest they switch to Mac first, then maybe Linux down the road.

Those of us who use whatever distro we prefer often fail to forget that the average computer user doesn't care about "freedom" - the freedom that comes with Linux (to a point). They care about functionality. They care about ease of installation and use - that's about it.

Most computer users: check email, game, chat through some type of client (Yahoo IM for example), watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and use MS Office. That's about it. We [Linux users] start raving to them about freedom this and freedom that, open source this and open source that, our audiance starts to think about lunch. THEY DON'T CARE. What they care about is being able to put in a disk, install with a couple of clicks and use their programs. That's it.

While Ubuntu is an amazing distrobution is far, far from being as close to Windows (in terms of ease of use) than we want to admit. When Joe user wants a cacluator program, he Googles it, downloads it, installs it and runs it. He doesn't want to have to figure out HOW to install it, use terminals, type in command lines, or anything else.

Sure, they could install Ubuntu "as is" and get everything they need and pretty much do everything they want without much added work - if any. We all know that. But what happens when they decide they want to buy and play World of Warcraft? Do you really think they're going to be able to figure out "how" to get their video card configured to handle it, much less how to install it? Do you think they even want to "waste their time" in doing so? Nope.

Don't get pissy with me - I'm not slamming Linux - I'm just being brutally honest in my assessment that Linux, even Ubuntu is still not ready for the "general public."

When the average computer user can install a distro, pop in a DVD and watch a movie without having to go through a week's worth of tweeking and manipulation... when the average user and can put ANY game install disk into their drive and play without having to take spend a month learning how to install it and configure it... when Linux TRUELY does everything Windows can do out-of-the-box THEN it will be a worthy adversary to Microsoft. Right now, while it is an amazing OS, it's not ready for the average Joe to use extensively. It's still the choice of people like us... who consider computers and technology more of a hobby, a way of life, than someone who only cares about checking email and browsing the web.

With that said, nope... I would not recommend Linux to a friend or family member. It's not worth the headache.

Hell, just look at the post above this one. Folks can't even get dial up Internet to work without going through a tons of hassle and headache. If folks like us - who use this OS day in and day have a hard time, what chances do you think Joe User is going to have?

fancypiper
November 10th, 2009, 04:26 AM
I just used wvdial to configure dialup (Fedora days), I just put phone number, user name and password in the configuration file, called wvdial and I was on-line shortly.

coldReactive
November 10th, 2009, 04:32 AM
I just used wvdial to configure dialup (Fedora days), I just put phone number, user name and password in the configuration file, called wvdial and I was on-line shortly.

I tried getting wvdial installed, but it always wanted another dependency, one after another, it got so tedious, I gave up. (I had to do it ALL offline by getting dependencies transferred via flash drive.)

ExSuSEusr
November 10th, 2009, 04:37 AM
I tried getting wvdial installed, but it always wanted another dependency, one after another, it got so tedious, I gave up. (I had to do it ALL offline by getting dependencies transferred via flash drive.)

Which is a simple example of why I wouldn't recommend Linux to an average computer user.

jimmietullis
November 10th, 2009, 04:41 AM
Yes, I DO recommend Ubuntu to my friends, family and work associates. I have replace Windows XP on 3 of my computers - 2 laptops and 1 desktop. I absolutely love it. There are issues to be rectified sometimes, such as a good DVD player, but I find that the Ubuntu community is the EASIEST to find what I need. I've tried Open SUSE and a couple of other distros but Ubuntu has been the best for ease of installation, use, and updating. I started with my first PC was a Packard Bell 8088 with DOS 5.0 and Windows 2.0. I spent YEARS and years upgrading and learning how to use DOS and Windows and other memory enhancement programs all on my own, so I find that a LITTLE work to make Ubuntu work flawlessly is worth the effort, because it is very easy to do so - now. Maybe linux was difficult in years past, but now it is much better than Windows. With Ubuntu, I spend my timw doing the things I like on my PC, instead of spending numerous hours with updates, anti-virus programs, more updates, and more virus problems, re-installs and hardware updates, and so on. The first time I installed Ubuntu 8.04 and started up my laptop, I was LOST because I didn't have to wait for virus software to start-up, run, scan, update, and no Windows updates and re-starting the PC so important security updates could be installed - and that happened DAILY!!!!! So, I just sat there in front of this laptop that booted quickly into Ubuntu and I didn't know what to do with all that extra time!!! Then I laughed with JOY at how easy computing was now going to be!!! I installed Ubuntu Studio on my desktop with a TV tuner and I am using it flawlessly to create 30 minute TV shows weekly for a local Comcast cable station. And, no darn Windows delays!!! I just smile and laugh everyday because my life is finally easier with Ubuntu. YES. I recommend Ubuntu to everyone!

ExSuSEusr
November 10th, 2009, 04:47 AM
But you're not an "average user." You do not represent the majority of computer users out there.

The average user isn't going to spend hours browsing through message posts, searching the web, trying to figure out how to get X, Y or Z to work. They're just not. They'll deal with viruses and spyware before they'll deal with spending two days trying to figure out how to install their video card drivers.

That's my point. People like us tend to forget... the average user doesn't have enough tech knowledge - nor do they want enough tech knowledge to get their system up and running doing EVERYTHING they once did in Windows.

The average user wants pure simplicity - not freedom.

ddarsow
November 10th, 2009, 04:49 AM
I do every day.
Windows is entirely too vulnerable to viruses & malware.
Windows costs too much.
Windows runs too slow.
Windows is always in Beta.

Linux is simply superior.

ExSuSEusr
November 10th, 2009, 04:53 AM
I do every day.
Windows is entirely too vulnerable to viruses & malware.
Windows costs too much.
Windows runs too slow.
Windows is always in Beta.

Linux is simply superior.


So what do you tell them when they come to you and mention they can't get their modems to work, they can't watch DVDs, they can't install or play certain games, they can't get their wireless to work?

Cope57
November 10th, 2009, 05:04 AM
Would You Recommend Ubuntu to your friends and family as a replacement for Windows.

I am going to assume this is a question, and say no.
I will however, recommend that people try alternatives to the Microsoft operating system. Operating systems that use the Linux kernel, BSD, and Solaris. If an individual will not leave their Microsoft operating system, I do suggest that they try alternatives and use open source software instead of their current proprietary software.

hallelujahtalon
November 10th, 2009, 06:38 AM
Depends on their attitude. I think the main obstacle is not technical problems.

If they are willing to try something new, nothing can stop that.

Chronon
November 10th, 2009, 06:44 AM
Eh. My family knows about Linux and they know I am happily using it. I don't see the need to push further than that.

g.a.
November 10th, 2009, 06:45 AM
I'm not sure about the answer. Personally I did not, here is my recent post describing my experience with (k)Ubuntu.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1296357

My families and friends would never afford it.

I know that they install bunch of antiviruses, crack codes, spend a lot of time in searching for software or, worst, use proprietary software just to move images from one directory to another because they do not know alternatives but... this is their choice.

Do you imagine the number of phone calls I would receive if I did suggest Linux and they did have one tenth of the Windows problem?

Finally, Linux is wonderful (I do not even have dual boot on my machine). But it is not yet popular, to many, apparently simple, problems at each upgrade. I'm just to writing a new post for my skype, I'm out of country, talking with my family with skype and skype.real is not working properly. I know, I know, skype is in the medibuntu repository... could you please explain it to my mother/father? ;)

Best,
g.

simonday99
November 10th, 2009, 08:21 AM
Why not ? Actually, I repair PCs and install OS for people around my place. Though many have been using windows since their birth, I give them the option of dual OS and once they gte the feel of Linux, they just dont leave it !

Ms_Angel_D
November 10th, 2009, 09:15 AM
I recommended it to my dad who does use it now, My dad likes to fiddle and learn but my mom is as computer illiterate as they come, she plays a few flash games, visits facebook/myspace, emails, pays bills and banking. That's it So for my parents Ubuntu was a perfect solution(not to mention I got the benefit of less long distance phone support).

I assess each persons needs differently. Some wouldn't do ubuntu/linux very well while with others it fits their needs perfectly. So In answer to the OP's question it really just depends on whom I'm talking to.

PryGuy
November 10th, 2009, 09:36 AM
My family is 100 percent Ubuntu. My servers are running Ubuntu and I'm happy with it!

outback jack
November 10th, 2009, 09:48 AM
I use Ubuntu my wife uses windows, she is happy, I'm happy. Her computer causes me very few problems she uses the thing, I like to mess around with it. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
I got a new computer, had a choice win or linux, i was sick of ms so changed glad i did. Changed my laptop over to Ubuntu a week later and have helped a friend set up a duel boot to see if he is willing to change, choice is his. I sent him the link to this web and support docs. His not on his own nor is he my responsibility there is plenty of help BTW thanks.

lykwydchykyn
November 10th, 2009, 08:07 PM
With that said, nope... I would not recommend Linux to a friend or family member. It's not worth the headache.

Hell, just look at the post above this one. Folks can't even get dial up Internet to work without going through a tons of hassle and headache. If folks like us - who use this OS day in and day have a hard time, what chances do you think Joe User is going to have?

I think this is true of most OS's, though. When I help people with their (Windows) computers, it's unbelievable how much they put up with. "Oh yeah, that message always pops up on startup. I just close it.", "Yeah, that program stopped working a few weeks ago, I'm not sure why.", "We haven't been able to get it to print for a while now, I don't know why." People are really lost on computers.

Linux distros have the disadvantage of being (1) unfamiliar and (2) not well supported by the tech industry at large. After that I really don't think there is a substantial difference in difficulty. Most things people cite as Linux being difficult can be attributed to those two things (for example, installing a calculator program -- much easier and safer via package manager than Googling for an install program. But unfamiliar. Or DVD playback -- prime example of lack of support from the industry, complicated by patent/IP issues.)

Both are overcome if you are (a) doing the setup for the person, and (b) available regularly to help during the transition period.

I guess the point is that yes, it is difficult for the "average person" to administrate their computer running Ubuntu. But, I would argue, it is no more difficult for them than administering any other OS apart from that they need to relearn some things, and the industry is not always supportive.

Tibuda
November 10th, 2009, 08:18 PM
If they want to get rid of Windows and Ubuntu meets their needs, yes.

If Windows is working fine for them or Ubuntu would not work fine for them, no.

Irihapeti
November 10th, 2009, 09:16 PM
Before I would recommended Ubuntu (or any other OS) to someone, I'd want to find out a few things about their computer use. Also, I'd want to get a sense of how they handle problems, change - all that kind of thing.

If the sort of things they do are easy to do in Ubuntu, then fine. If they have special requirements that are difficult to meet with Ubuntu (and that could be "work requires Windows software", or driver issues), then I won't pursue the matter.

Similarly, if they are the kind of people who are easily overwhelmed by something different, or who panic easily when something goes wrong, then I don't think it's a good idea, either.

I know that if I did push it and it didn't work properly for them, I'd be the one getting the fallout. I prefer to live without that.

Of course, I'm talking about people whom I'm not handholding through multiple and ongoing problems with Windows. I think that's a different situation altogether. In that case, I'd draw a line: try something different, or go elsewhere. (I'd say it more politely than that, though.)

NJC
November 10th, 2009, 11:21 PM
No, I would not recommend Ubuntu to replace Win.

NightwishFan
November 12th, 2009, 09:35 PM
I would not. Most of the people I know aren't into computers like those of us posting in this forum. I would suggest they switch to Mac first, then maybe Linux down the road.

Those of us who use whatever distro we prefer often fail to forget that the average computer user doesn't care about "freedom" - the freedom that comes with Linux (to a point). They care about functionality. They care about ease of installation and use - that's about it.

Most computer users: check email, game, chat through some type of client (Yahoo IM for example), watch movies, listen to music, browse the web, and use MS Office. That's about it. We [Linux users] start raving to them about freedom this and freedom that, open source this and open source that, our audiance starts to think about lunch. THEY DON'T CARE. What they care about is being able to put in a disk, install with a couple of clicks and use their programs. That's it.

While Ubuntu is an amazing distrobution is far, far from being as close to Windows (in terms of ease of use) than we want to admit. When Joe user wants a cacluator program, he Googles it, downloads it, installs it and runs it. He doesn't want to have to figure out HOW to install it, use terminals, type in command lines, or anything else.

Sure, they could install Ubuntu "as is" and get everything they need and pretty much do everything they want without much added work - if any. We all know that. But what happens when they decide they want to buy and play World of Warcraft? Do you really think they're going to be able to figure out "how" to get their video card configured to handle it, much less how to install it? Do you think they even want to "waste their time" in doing so? Nope.

Don't get pissy with me - I'm not slamming Linux - I'm just being brutally honest in my assessment that Linux, even Ubuntu is still not ready for the "general public."

When the average computer user can install a distro, pop in a DVD and watch a movie without having to go through a week's worth of tweeking and manipulation... when the average user and can put ANY game install disk into their drive and play without having to take spend a month learning how to install it and configure it... when Linux TRUELY does everything Windows can do out-of-the-box THEN it will be a worthy adversary to Microsoft. Right now, while it is an amazing OS, it's not ready for the average Joe to use extensively. It's still the choice of people like us... who consider computers and technology more of a hobby, a way of life, than someone who only cares about checking email and browsing the web.

With that said, nope... I would not recommend Linux to a friend or family member. It's not worth the headache.

Hell, just look at the post above this one. Folks can't even get dial up Internet to work without going through a tons of hassle and headache. If folks like us - who use this OS day in and day have a hard time, what chances do you think Joe User is going to have?



So Microsoft is easier to use because it has a ridiculously high market share and everyone caters to it?

People do not like freedom? That is the biggest benefit of open source. You can install Ubuntu on any number of machines, that is good for home and business alike.

Installing debian packages using dependencies is a feature. I would like for there to be some common, cross distro, easy binary form to install software though. By easy I mean graphical, that would make a lot of new users happy when they look for software that is not in repositories.

You utterly overstate the common tasks that people accomplish using GNU/Linux.

*gets pissy* Headache? I could say the same about Windows. Add a gig of RAM and have to reactivate, but I do not have internet anymore so I am forced to do so by phone? How it ridiculously pages, so the disk is constantly in use? How Aero enabled by default on my integrated Nvidia card, and made my machine so slow that I had to spend 15 minutes disabling it? How I buy a machine that is only a few years old and it is already obsolete and unable to run Windows 7...

philinux
November 12th, 2009, 09:51 PM
For general home use 100% yes. PC Gaming no.

Kdar
November 13th, 2009, 03:30 AM
haha my family already using Ubuntu. And I think they like it too.
My mother and my aunt use it now day to day on their laptops.

Frak
November 13th, 2009, 04:14 AM
I wouldn't do anything at all. If Windows is good for their use, there is no reason to switch to Linux.

Linux on the Desktop's main competitor isn't Microsoft, it happens to be people already pleased by what they have.

alphaniner
November 13th, 2009, 05:07 AM
I wouldn't do anything at all. If Windows is good for their use, there is no reason to switch to Linux.

Linux on the Desktop's main competitor isn't Microsoft, it happens to be people already pleased by what they have.

You don't think it's possible that Linux might be better for their use? Another powerful Linux competitor is the number of people who don't even know it exists.

Me, I just don't have the energy to go around converting folks.

Frak
November 13th, 2009, 05:12 AM
You don't think it's possible that Linux might be better for their use? Another powerful Linux competitor is the number of people who don't even know it exists.

Me, I just don't have the energy to go around converting folks.
No, it's not. If what they have perfectly suits their needs, there is no, say it with me, NO reason to switch to something else.

Also, conversion = no no. One of Linux's biggest lessons: Don't preach, mention. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=865750)

Exodist
November 13th, 2009, 06:21 AM
Would I recommend Ubuntu? Nah I would recommend Debian and isntall it myself.

XubuRoxMySox
November 13th, 2009, 12:25 PM
I don't think I understand this need to "convert" people anyway. If they are happy with what they have, then they don't need to switch. Unless they have expressed a need to switch, or curiosity about alternatives to Windows and Mac, then I would probably recommend a Linux distro that is rock-stable and won't surprise them with issues that there is little or no documentation on. Nothing bleeding edge for a newbie, I think.

On my "test" machine I'm exploring Debian (Lenny) and omygosh, it's so fast! Not "bledding edge" and not all sparkly and flashy and blingy, but fast, much more stable than Ubuntu was on that machine, and then - here's something the Debian folks prob'ly wouldn't want to get out on these forums much - it's easy. Installation was a snap! Configuration was simple. A few simple commands in the terminal and presto. Hey that terminal thingy is a powerful secret weapon!

I like the bling and the eye candy. But I need super-solid stability, even if that means I don't get the bleeding edge fashionable latest trendy stuff. It's so quick and so stable and - shhhhhh, so easy that I just might "convert" from Ubuntu to it's parent. For the stability first and foremost, and secondly, because it feels like I've "graduated" or something, getting Debian to work so wonderfully. Omygosh... is this how Arch users feel? ;)

-Robin

halovivek
November 13th, 2009, 12:34 PM
Yes some of my friends are there in ubuntu. but their main OS is still MS

alphaniner
November 13th, 2009, 03:34 PM
No, it's not. If what they have perfectly suits their needs, there is no, say it with me, NO reason to switch to something else.

Also, conversion = no no. One of Linux's biggest lessons: Don't preach, mention. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=865750)

If the only food I ever knew was bread, I guess I would think it perfectly suited me to eat nothing else. The only perfection approached there would be near-perfect culinary ignorance. There is no reason not to recommend Ubuntu, as long as you don't get emotionally involved in it.

And I was using conversion lazily. What I meant was I don't have the energy to be constantly providing technical support.

Millemillimeter
November 13th, 2009, 04:12 PM
My mother let me install ubuntu on her dell laptop after I explained to her that windows is evil.
Everything work perfect and I didnt have to do any trixing on it.
She was very happy about the much improved boot speed and response time.
Acctually ubuntu is easier for her to use, she doesnt call me as much for computersupport now!
And I have to point your that my mother is almost a computer illiterate, she does know how to double click but thats it.
If my mother can use ubuntu anybody can use ubuntu!

PS: they did an excellent job on the sound in karmic, there where problems with dell running 9.04 but now its working perfectly.

NightwishFan
November 13th, 2009, 04:19 PM
I don't think I understand this need to "convert" people anyway. If they are happy with what they have, then they don't need to switch. Unless they have expressed a need to switch, or curiosity about alternatives to Windows and Mac, then I would probably recommend a Linux distro that is rock-stable and won't surprise them with issues that there is little or no documentation on. Nothing bleeding edge for a newbie, I think.

On my "test" machine I'm exploring Debian (Lenny) and omygosh, it's so fast! Not "bledding edge" and not all sparkly and flashy and blingy, but fast, much more stable than Ubuntu was on that machine, and then - here's something the Debian folks prob'ly wouldn't want to get out on these forums much - it's easy. Installation was a snap! Configuration was simple. A few simple commands in the terminal and presto. Hey that terminal thingy is a powerful secret weapon!

I like the bling and the eye candy. But I need super-solid stability, even if that means I don't get the bleeding edge fashionable latest trendy stuff. It's so quick and so stable and - shhhhhh, so easy that I just might "convert" from Ubuntu to it's parent. For the stability first and foremost, and secondly, because it feels like I've "graduated" or something, getting Debian to work so wonderfully. Omygosh... is this how Arch users feel? ;)

-Robin

I thought about what I would use if I did not use Ubuntu. I compared Windows, Mac, Fedora, openSUSE, and Debian. I have found that I would like to go with Debian.

aysiu
November 13th, 2009, 05:06 PM
I do not believe in converting people to a new operating system (by the way, most OS evangelists I know in real life are "PC"-to-Mac evangelists).

I do, however, have to object to the idea that all Windows users who stick with Windows are happy with Windows. I know many Windows users who are happy with Windows. Some who are pretty apathetic. And some who hate Windows but feel stuck with it. They may have legitimate reasons for feeling stuck (resistance to learning something new, dependence on Windows-only software or proprietary file formats, Linux-unfriendly hardware peripherals), but they do not necessarily feel happy using Windows.

HybridZero
November 13th, 2009, 05:34 PM
As much as I like Linux, I don't believe that it's ready for the average user. For a lot of people, the fact that iTunes isn't easily run under linux is a deal breaker.

jonnywombat
November 22nd, 2009, 12:00 AM
My best friend is not really into computers, he browses the internet writes a few documents, that sort of stuff...

I was at his about 18 months ago, his XP box was giving him loads of grief and he asked me to take a look. I did not have a XP disc with me but a disc with 8.04 on it. I told him I could install this for now to get him back on the net, then I'd come back another time if he wanted to go back to windows.

Since then he has never looked back. As far as he's concerned everything just works, although he knows enough to check with me before he buys hardware etc.

This is to such an extent that his kids prefer his ubuntu box and will choose to use him machine rather than his Mrs vista laptop.

However did the same sort of thing for my sister and she has not got on quite so well, but mainly coz before buying hardware she did not check out compatibility first.. (even tho I told her time and again to check with me first).

Finally I have 2 kids aged 8 and 6. They both have there own computer one a desktop and one a laptop...Both have karmic installed, and have no problems at all using them. They also come home from school complaining about the windows boxes they have to use in school :p

john newbuntu
November 22nd, 2009, 02:18 PM
I sure would. But equally good is Mint Gloria. She worked like a charm right out of the box. Both are Debian based puppies. I had a few hiccups with Karmic but was able to resolve them quickly

Lyleb
December 4th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Would have up until 9.10. Too many unresolved issues. Too unstable. Should never have been released.

mgcarlos
December 4th, 2009, 01:04 AM
I'm planning the same thing myself (for my dad, that is)... With Ubuntu, my experience is good and bad ... but mostly good! I understand your anxiety over possible install problems functionality and having to work through it all.

First, while I've read wonderful comments about people who've moved to Karmic (9.10), I tried installing themUNR & Desktop versions of 9.10 on both my Acer Aspire One and my Compaq Presario, and ended up with problems connecting to some sites.

So, I suggest you try it out first without wiping out our XP. You might even want to try dual-booting it. That way, if anything can't be resolved or the install is unstable, you can just wipe it out without having to reinstall windows.

Good luck on your project and keep us posted.

Mix