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Blacklightbulb
November 2nd, 2009, 06:16 PM
....Gentoo dieing little by little? :confused:

When I got in the world of Linux some 4 years ago I think, Gentoo and Ubuntu were almost equally popular (or that was my impression at least). Nowadays Ubuntu has become increasingly popular and also did Arch but sadly I'm not hearing much about Gentoo.

So, what happened?

Also Gentoo if I recall correctly used to be faster than Ubuntu cause of the many compilings (it still takes a hell of a hell of a lot of time to compile a system imo). Anyway so now did Arch take Gentoo's position or what?

OMG: Gentoo is 16 on distro watch but that I think is because there are many newbie preferred distros before it.

Dark_Stang
November 2nd, 2009, 06:17 PM
Arch is becomming very popular. Gentoo is still popular but isn't very attractive to new Linux users because of how much work has to go into getting everything running.

the fix it man
November 2nd, 2009, 06:20 PM
Gentoo/ARCH/SLACK imo all have the classic geekness about them, so will never be as popular as the distros for humans (none-geek).

Blacklightbulb
November 2nd, 2009, 06:21 PM
So are the DEVs losing hope or what.

Now that I'm thinking of it I wish I had spent more time on Gentoo but Ubuntu was so appealing. I made like 2 days compiling stuff and then I never actually used the distro :(.
Arch is nice but not that appealing.

Blacklightbulb
November 2nd, 2009, 06:25 PM
Gentoo/ARCH/SLACK imo all have the classic geekness about them, so will never be as popular as the distros for humans (none-geek).

When you day geeks you mean patient geeks who need God knows what to get frustrated. I tried all the about mentioned distros and if one thing was common that was the level of frustration I got while compiling the system.

I know what you me though. It's like all the classic muscle cars that all the automotive geeks drive instead of the modern cars who are more user-friendly.

BuffaloX
November 2nd, 2009, 06:35 PM
There have been rumors about the death of Gentoo more than once.
Some time ago the founder tried to get back, to get Gentoo back on the right track, but he met such hostility I think he left again.
The Gentoo environment had a reputation of being very hostile.

I hope all this is false, I think the idea behind Gentoo is cool, and I think such environments are very valuable to Linux as a whole.

Blacklightbulb
November 2nd, 2009, 07:26 PM
I really feel sorry for the founder and the DEVs.

Viva
November 2nd, 2009, 07:40 PM
Arch is killing it imo.

Mighty_Joe
November 2nd, 2009, 07:42 PM
I used Gentoo for about 3 years. When I ran into a problem I never knew if what I was seeing was a bug, the result of one of my compile flags, a kernel option I should have turned on-left off-compiled as a module-compiled into the kernel-loaded first-loaded last-or something else. The community is really helpful to the end user (I saw plenty of infighting among the developers, however) so fixing a problem was never more than a few hours of tinkering away. But at some point, the "geek cred" of getting Gentoo to work faded and the desire to have a working computer became took over, so I moved to Ubuntu.
Comparing Ubuntu to Gentoo, I don't think the trend is so much people leaving Gentoo as more new people starting with Ubuntu (Ubuntu in red, Gentoo in blue).
http://www.google.com/trends/viz?q=gentoo,+ubuntu&date=all&geo=all&graph=weekly_img&sort=0&sa=N

PurposeOfReason
November 2nd, 2009, 08:22 PM
When you day geeks you mean patient geeks who need God knows what to get frustrated. I tried all the about mentioned distros and if one thing was common that was the level of frustration I got while compiling the system.

I know what you me though. It's like all the classic muscle cars that all the automotive geeks drive instead of the modern cars who are more user-friendly.
The only time I get frustrated is when something doesn't work for no reason. I just did a gentoo reinstall and xinit won't compile even with the most basic flags. It's not a new package, there is nothing wrong. I'm just going to have to install again and hope. That's what gets me.

CherylMPaine
November 2nd, 2009, 08:53 PM
It's still around - the compiling frustrations just kind of shoved it aside for those who'd rather not have to recompile and recompile and - whoops that didn't work - recompile again! :p

Xbehave
November 2nd, 2009, 09:44 PM
Gentoo is still around, but all the "hardcore" people that want a tricky distro have moved to arch because it involved less recompiling. I don't think gentoo has ever been as popular as debian so despite for a short period when ubuntu was first created I don't think it was more popular (although it was the best place to go for documentation).

Note: I'm not saying that all arch users are this type, many/some benefit from putting together their own distro, however many/most just think that they are Linux pros just because they have spent longer setting it up (which was originally part of the appeal of gentoo)

MisfitI38
November 2nd, 2009, 10:23 PM
When you day geeks you mean patient geeks who need God knows what to get frustrated. I tried all the about (sic) mentioned distros and if one thing was common that was the level of frustration I got while compiling the system.

Neither Arch nor Slack require any compiling of the base system, and you could almost certainly get away with zero compiling on Arch.

There has been a buzz that 'Gentoo is dying' for years. Gentoo's popularity may be slowly dwindling, but Funtoo seems to be growing, and will coexist or may ultimately take its place one day.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 04:38 AM
...however many/most just think that they are Linux pros just because they have spent longer setting it up (which was originally part of the appeal of gentoo)

Where did you get your stat's, or the impression that, that is a true statement?

Most Arch users like it simple. They just want what they put there to exist, (beyond the Arch Base install). Any ego's that flaunt some kind of deluded superiority regarding their own technical ability are just a tiny minority of Arch users (from my observations) that are immature & would be expressing the same foolishness one way or another no matter what system they were using.

Arch is the easiest system to maintain that I have ever used in my 24 years experience of computing experience.

The installation is dead easy (most find it to be fun), provided of course you happen to have the ability to read & follow instructions properly, al la The Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide). If you can follow the excellent instructions, then to be stopped you have to be dead unlucky with hardware, the most likely cause would be to have a wireless problem that stuffs up your internet at the start, as basically for 99% of installations, no internet means no Arch.

Arch requires no super technical knowledge, just the ability to follow instructions, usually from the brilliant wiki or forum if you have some strange problem.

cdwillis
November 3rd, 2009, 04:54 AM
I know what you me though. It's like all the classic muscle cars that all the automotive geeks drive instead of the modern cars who are more user-friendly.

How is a newer car more user friendly than an old muscle car? It's most likely more fuel efficient, but not as easy to fix yourself when it breaks down. Funny thing, I do see a correlation between those differences in cars and linux distros.

HappinessNow
November 3rd, 2009, 04:56 AM
Arch is becomming very popular. Actually, I thought Arch was dying also?

Dark_Stang
November 3rd, 2009, 05:15 AM
Actually, I thought Arch was dying also?
I haven't seen any signs of Arch slowing down. In the last year or so Arch has actually taken some of Ubuntu's users for the simple reason that, the Ubuntu install is getting bigger and a little slower. I took a different path and went to Ubuntu minimal because I like Ubuntu's package management system much more than Arch's. Arch is also very popular among the users that want to always have the latest software, since it is a rolling release distro.

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 05:34 AM
Actually, I thought Arch was dying also?

I just had a look at the forum, & there are approaching 29,000 registered users, with 19 registered users on line, & 91 guests.

Arch is tiny by comparison to Ubuntu, though I think its user base is growing all of the time. There are apparently many Arch users who like myself started out with Ubuntu. According to MisfitI38, as the ex-Ubuntu user base grew at Arch, so did the quality of the wiki.

Which is somehow a compliment, as Arch has such a brilliant wiki, perhaps the best I have seen.

Of course it could be looked at from the other perspective, that the Ubuntu users needed all the help they could get!

I prefer the implications of the first proposition myself. :)

Xbehave
November 3rd, 2009, 12:54 PM
Most Arch users like it simple. They just want what they put there to exist, (beyond the Arch Base install). Any ego's that flaunt some kind of deluded superiority regarding their own technical ability are just a tiny minority of Arch users (from my observations) that are immature & would be expressing the same foolishness one way or another no matter what system they were using.
I agree that they are a minority and would be the same on any system, they are however quite vocal (in particular vocal about arch, although they would be particularly vocal about any system they run so it's not really anything to do with arch),


Arch is the easiest system to maintain that I have ever used in my 24 years experience of computing experience.
I disagree, I've never found anything easier to maintain than apt based systems, maybe it's down to personal preference but there is a reason debian based distros and cyclic released distros have been consistently popular.


The installation is dead easy (most find it to be fun), provided of course you happen to have the ability to read & follow instructions properly, al la The Beginners Guide (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Beginners_Guide). If you can follow the excellent instructions, then to be stopped you have to be dead unlucky with hardware,I've installed arch and while it is informative and not particularly hard, it is not nearly as easy as debian,ubuntu,fedora, much easier (and quicker) than gentoo though.

insane_alien
November 3rd, 2009, 01:45 PM
perhaps if gentoo was a bit more ubuntu-like.

now, i don't mean never having to compile anything and waiting around 6 months for a new version and all that, but if it had a liveCD installer that gave you a working system if you just accept the defaults. something that looks as pretty as ubuntu and takes a similar length of time to install.

after that, some GUI tool that explains all the USE flags as it lists them for your selection, perhaps even a feature that recommends USE flags that would likely be useful to your system or USE flags that you should probably disable.

Then there is the community that can be a bit hostile, in one of my previous attempts at gentoo, i had some questions about selecting USE flags. basically how do i know if these are right for me. i just wanted to check with someone before i crippled my system potentially.

the responses ranged from 'RTFM'(which i had, but still wasn't 100% sure) to 'If you don't know then you shouldn't be using gentoo or even linux'

it has got somewhat better over the years, but its still not exactly great.

perhaps a gentoo-ized fork of ubuntu would be a better place to start.

Xbehave
November 3rd, 2009, 01:56 PM
but if it had a liveCD installer that gave you a working system if you just accept the defaults. something that looks as pretty as ubuntu and takes a similar length of time to install.

I think that is what sabyon tries to do, i don't know if it succeeds.

Mighty_Joe
November 3rd, 2009, 02:12 PM
perhaps if gentoo was a bit more ubuntu-like.

Try saying that to a Gentoo developer. Hope you have asbestos underwear! :D
Seriously, the great thing about Linux, and open-source in general, is that there is choice. If you want to tinker with the innards, there's releases like LFS and Gentoo. If you want a working desktop without a lot of fuss, there's Ubuntu, OpenSUSE among others. Then there's a whole slew of releases between for every taste. Don't like any of the above? Spin off your own like our man earthpig did (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=7837059).
Gentoo shouldn't be more Ubuntu-like. Gentoo should be Gentoo.

~sHyLoCk~
November 3rd, 2009, 02:17 PM
Actually, I thought Arch was dying also?

Is that in your dreams? :p

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 09:16 PM
I've installed arch and while it is informative and not particularly hard, it is not nearly as easy as debian,ubuntu,fedora, much easier (and quicker) than gentoo though.

I didn't say it was the easiest to install, I said it was the easiest to maintain out of any system I've used in 24 years. :)

handy
November 3rd, 2009, 09:19 PM
perhaps if gentoo was a bit more ubuntu-like.

Sabayon is Gentoo based, & it is (at least was) a good system, I used it for a couple of years, haven't kept up with it lately though.