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Uncle Spellbinder
October 31st, 2009, 04:27 PM
Having used Debian and/or Ubuntu since about 2001, Ive never delved into a non-Debian based distro. What are the most user friendly distros? (i.e. installing flash, multimedia codecs and a quick overall learning curve)

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 04:31 PM
Archlinux. It's awesome! I use it every day.

JillSwift
October 31st, 2009, 04:35 PM
Arhlinux. It's awesome! I use it every day.
Problematic, though, that it doesn't yet support you keyboard's "c" key. ;)

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 04:37 PM
Problematic, though, that it doesn't yet support you keyboard's "c" key. ;)
Huh?

speedwell68
October 31st, 2009, 04:38 PM
The only non-Debian based distros I have used is Suse 6.4 and OpenSuse 11. Suse 6.4 was pre-Novell and it truly sucked and I was looking at OpenSuse 11 as an alternative to Ubuntu and I just didn't get on with it. Actually I did have a spell with Linpus Lispire Lite, my Acer A150 shipped with it. Well, I say I had a spell with it, it was about 20 minutes before I said b*ll*cks to this and installed UNR.

szymon_g
October 31st, 2009, 04:38 PM
i suggest Fedora; new version (12) should be out on 10th of november.
it's really nice distro, although yum (its package manager) is a bit slow.
Also OpenSUSE is nice. And if you dare, you can try PLD ;P

speedwell68
October 31st, 2009, 04:39 PM
Huh?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?source=imgres&ct=tbn&q=http://www.pspsps.tv/tumbleweed.jpg&usg=AFQjCNGHvJdhstNWuSzHI7Pf0_qNu_BVpQ

realzippy
October 31st, 2009, 04:39 PM
Problematic, though, that it doesn't yet support you keyboard's "c" key. ;)

No,it is really ool.

MelDJ
October 31st, 2009, 04:39 PM
Huh?

you spelt ARCHLINUX as ARHLINUX

NoaHall
October 31st, 2009, 04:40 PM
Hm... PCLinuxOS? OpenSuse? Anything KDE based - they tend to be easier for newbies.

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 04:40 PM
you spelt ARCHLINUX as ARHLINUX
oh!

cascade9
October 31st, 2009, 04:43 PM
Now you see the c problem LOL

IMO, RPM based distros- Fedora, Mandriva, etc or OpenSUSE (and I'm not an SUSE fan myself, but lots people say its easy). BTW, you can 'apt-get' etc with OpenSUSEs YasT.

szymon_g
October 31st, 2009, 04:47 PM
BTW, you can 'apt-get' etc with OpenSUSEs YasT.

today every package manager provides functionality found in apt-get tool.
and Yast in OpenSUSE is good for configuring system; it sucks as program installation tool. zypper is much better: its faster and more configurable.

Xbehave
October 31st, 2009, 04:56 PM
Arch isn't user friendly by any stretch of the imaginations
I would argue that generally slax/gentoo are not either, so the only real alternatives are the RPM based distros (Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSUSE, etc) Of those i have only used fedora.

IMO it is less friendly than ubuntu but about the same as debain)
The update repos are much more busy than ubuntu's backports
selinux is a harder to use than apparmor (openSuse uses apparmor)

matmatmat
October 31st, 2009, 05:11 PM
Arch isn't user friendly by any stretch of the imaginations

Depends if you can (be bothered) reading the arch wiki install guide and googling. The wiki (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page) is one of the best I've seen!

Pogeymanz
October 31st, 2009, 05:12 PM
I'm afraid to say that you'll be pretty disappointed by not-different most distros are.

Fedora is very nice, but not super different from Ubuntu. You'd probably have to use it for months and go through some serious upgrades before you could really decide if you like it better.

Fedora was just an example, it's pretty much the same for OpenSUSE, Mandriva, PCLOS, etc.

szymon_g
October 31st, 2009, 05:13 PM
Arch isn't user friendly by any stretch of the imaginations

#define: 'user friendly' ;p


I would argue that generally slax/gentoo are not either

as above


so the only real alternatives are the RPM based distros (Fedora, Mandriva, OpenSUSE, etc) Of those i have only used fedora.

IMO it is less friendly than ubuntu but about the same as debain)

i'd say it's more 'user friendly' than debian, it (i.e. fedora) has some nice apps (system-config-*)


The update repos are much more busy than ubuntu's backports


right

selinux is a harder to use than apparmor (openSuse uses apparmor)


AppArmor is dead, SELinux lives. Anyway: both aren't as good as (at least in theory) TOMOYO + PaX/Grsecurity :)

Hallvor
October 31st, 2009, 05:20 PM
Having used Debian and/or Ubuntu since about 2001, Ive never delved into a non-Debian based distro. What are the most user friendly distros? (i.e. installing flash, multimedia codecs and a quick overall learning curve)

PCLinuxOS should be good for you. Very, very easy. Comes with KDE, Gnome, XFCE and LXDE editions. Rolling release. Java, flash and multimedia codecs are preinstalled. Making a backup/remaster of your system is very easy. Just install it and start using it.

Wiebelhaus
October 31st, 2009, 05:23 PM
OPENSuse or Fedora.

Tipped OuT
October 31st, 2009, 05:27 PM
I woudn't recommand Arch, that's for the professionals right? ;)

Have a try at OpenSUSE.

Bachstelze
October 31st, 2009, 05:31 PM
I woudn't recommand Arch, that's for the professionals right? ;)


No. The professionals use RHEL or Suse Entreprise, maybe Debian or a BSD on servers, but not Arch, Gentoo or Slack.

Hint: professionals != "I'm using the most complicated distro I can find because I'm cool like that"

chucky chuckaluck
October 31st, 2009, 05:36 PM
I woudn't recommand Arch, that's for the professionals right? ;)

i used it for a year, so definitely not.

szymon_g
October 31st, 2009, 05:36 PM
No. The professionals use RHEL or Suse Entreprise, maybe Debian or a BSD on servers, but not Arch, Gentoo or Slack.

Hint: professionals != "I'm using the most complicated distro I can find because I'm cool like that"

well... archlinux isn't to complicated, it's quite easy.
but i agree with the main idea, although i'd rather write:
professional = "I'm using stable, well tested OS, because, if it fails, i'll be in troubles"

Xbehave
October 31st, 2009, 05:38 PM
Depends if you can (be bothered) reading the arch wiki install guide and googling. The wiki (http://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Main_Page) is one of the best I've seen!
from the wiki

Whereas many GNU/Linux distributions attempt to be more 'user-friendly', Arch Linux has always been, and will always remain 'user-centric'.

Arch Linux users fully manage the system on their own. The system itself will offer little assistance, except for a simple set of maintenance tools that are designed to perfectly relay the user's commands to the system.

The open nature of Arch Linux also implies a fairly steep learning curve, but experienced Arch Linux users tend to find other more closed systems much more inconvenient to control.
I don't get why arch users come here and pretend its a user friendly distro, the arch wiki does no such thing, because its clearly not.

Lets see what the wiki says about ubuntu or fedora

If you want to get up and running quickly and not fiddle around with the guts of the system as much, Ubuntu is better suited.

he Arch design approach is geared more toward lightweight elegance and minimalism rather than automation/autoconfiguration.

Again arch does not claim to be the "best distro" so stop pretending it is!

Arch has its aims but it is not by any definition user friendly.


AppArmor is dead, SELinux lives. Anyway: both aren't as good as (at least in theory) TOMOYO + PaX/Grsecurity :)
You have no idea what you are talking about. Selinux/apparmor/TOMOYO all work on file permisions
PaX/Grsecurity do not, all systems have advantages and disadvantages but only an idiot would claim that any single solution is better than the rest.

Tipped OuT
October 31st, 2009, 05:39 PM
i used it for a year, so definitely not.

And this proves it's not for professionals how?

Oh wait, you're not good with Linux, am I right? ;)

matmatmat
October 31st, 2009, 05:41 PM
It may say that (and I agree) but if you use the Install Guide on the wiki and search the forums, most people should be able to install

Frak
October 31st, 2009, 05:47 PM
No. The professionals use RHEL or Suse Entreprise, maybe Debian or a BSD on servers, but not Arch, Gentoo or Slack.

Hint: professionals != "I'm using the most complicated distro I can find because I'm cool like that"
We use Gentoo on our build server. Just wanted to put that out there.

Xbehave
October 31st, 2009, 05:52 PM
It may say that (and I agree) but if you use the Install Guide on the wiki and search the forums, most people should be able to install
Being able to install something != user friendly. Arch has its good points but user friendlyness is not one pretend it is, is just silly.


Oh wait, you're not good with Linux, am I right?
A needlessly offensive arch user, :O, seriously you are the one that claimed its for professionals, the burden of proof is on you. In reality arch linux is not a good choice for a professional environment for many reasons the main one is simply that its a rolling release without a security team (AFAIK)


We use Gentoo on our build server. Just wanted to put that out there.
While I can't speak from experience I do get the impression that gentoo is (or at least used to be), used quite a bit professionally (e.g there are quite a few companies who sell pro support), however I would still say it's not a user-friendly distro (in no small part because it has other priorities)

Frak
October 31st, 2009, 05:58 PM
however I would still say it's not a user-friendly distro

That's the least of their priorities.

szymon_g
October 31st, 2009, 05:58 PM
You have no idea what you are talking about. Selinux/apparmor/TOMOYO all work on file permisions
PaX/Grsecurity do not, all systems have advantages and disadvantages but only an idiot would claim that any single solution is better than the rest.

thats why i claim that 2 combined solutions are better than single one (of course if both of them are configured properly): tomoyo- because its in mainline and because its easy to configure- and pax/grsecurity- because it works fine (and and isn't written as LSM, which could be an advantage)

// edit
btw, could you explain how apparmor/tomoyo (and selinux) works on 'file permissions'? they have nothing to do with 'old, good' file permission, they work on different level

Cuddles McKitten
October 31st, 2009, 06:14 PM
Arch Linux is the most user-friendly distro... once you get to know how to use it. :D

Frak
October 31st, 2009, 06:15 PM
Arch Linux is the most user-friendly distro... once you get to know how to use it. :D
Swimming is easy once you know how to swim.

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 06:21 PM
Arch Linux is the most user-friendly distro... once you get to know how to use it. :D

Yep. I can set it up in 30 minutes! Fun!

Tipped OuT
October 31st, 2009, 06:25 PM
Arch Linux is the most user-friendly distro... once you get to know how to use it. :D

Rocket science is easy, once you know how to do it.

>_>

RiceMonster
October 31st, 2009, 06:33 PM
well... archlinux isn't to complicated, it's quite easy.
but i agree with the main idea, although i'd rather write:
professional = "I'm using stable, well tested OS, because, if it fails, i'll be in troubles"

Yep, so not Arch.


A needlessly offensive arch user, :O, seriously you are the one that claimed its for professionals, the burden of proof is on you. In reality arch linux is not a good choice for a professional environment for many reasons the main one is simply that its a rolling release without a security team (AFAIK)

/facepalm

Xbehave
October 31st, 2009, 06:34 PM
thats why i claim that 2 combined solutions are better than single one (of course if both of them are configured properly): tomoyo- because its in mainline and because its easy to configure- and pax/grsecurity- because it works fine (and and isn't written as LSM, which could be an advantage)

// edit
btw, could you explain how apparmor/tomoyo (and selinux) works on 'file permissions'? they have nothing to do with 'old, good' file permission, they work on different level
both selinxu & tomoyo are in the mainline. apparmor is supported as it only uses LSM hooks. The key reason why neither selinux or tomoyo can be called better is that they take completely different approaches to deciding what is allowed (labelling files vs path based rulesets (also what apparmor does))

MAC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_access_control), its not just file access limits, but on a simplist level, selinux/tomoyo/apparmor, limit what programs have access to and PAX is more to do with memory protection(NX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NX_bit) +ASRL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Address_space_layout_randomization) (a weak form of this is in mainline by default)).


/facepalm
Really well thought out rebuttal there!

Eisenwinter
October 31st, 2009, 07:11 PM
Archlinux. It's awesome! I use it every day.
I second this, but I'm biased, since I use Arch myself.

RiceMonster
October 31st, 2009, 07:55 PM
Really well thought out rebuttal there!

Why rebut to an argument against a sarcastic post? I always laugh when someone makes a joke or tongue in cheek post then someone responds, totally oblivious, acting all high and mighty.

misfitpierce
October 31st, 2009, 08:28 PM
I used to use Mandriva which was Mandrake before but Mandriva is quite friendly... I used it years ago and it worked out just fine... Everything worked back then including wireless and all when Ubuntu gave me problems back then.

Sunflower1970
October 31st, 2009, 09:04 PM
I don't know if Arch is the friendliest, especially to install, but once it's in, it's very easy to maintain. While installing, though, you'll learn a lot about your system. I was very glad I took the plunge and tried it out on one of my computers.

SomeGuyDude
October 31st, 2009, 09:16 PM
My vote would probably be PCLinuxOS or Mandriva just for a change of pace.

I forget, is SimplyMEPIS Debian based?

lightningfox
October 31st, 2009, 09:21 PM
The non-Debian based distros I've tried are Mandriva and
OpenSUSE.

Mandriva was easier to set up and use than OpenSUSE.

Installing software on Mandriva was easier than on OpenSUSE.

Also Mandriva's Mandriva Control Center graphical system
configuration tool was easier to use than OpenSUSE's YAST.

cascade9
November 1st, 2009, 09:58 AM
I forget, is SimplyMEPIS Debian based?

Yes, it is. Debian stable based.
http://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=mepis

Crunchy the Headcrab
November 1st, 2009, 10:02 AM
The second easiest distribution I've used so far is Fedora 11. There is a new fedora coming out next month.

The distributions I have used are Ubuntu, Arch, OpenSuse, Fedora, and Debian. Of those my two favorites are Ubuntu and Fedora. I've used various desktop environments on all of them.

Fedora is not Debian based. It is originally based on Red Hat and uses .rpm's instead of .deb's. Pretty sure OpenSuse uses .rpm too. I didn't really like OpenSuse in gnome or kde flavors although kde is much better than gnome on OpenSuse. I probably learned the most from Arch, however I've got a decent machine and the benefits of using Arch weren't worth the work of setting it up.

yesint
November 1st, 2009, 11:55 AM
The second easiest distribution I've used so far is Fedora 11. There is a new fedora coming out next month.

The distributions I have used are Ubuntu, Arch, OpenSuse, Fedora, and Debian. Of those my two favorites are Ubuntu and Fedora. I've used various desktop environments on all of them.

Fedora is not Debian based. It is originally based on Red Hat and uses .rpm's instead of .deb's. Pretty sure OpenSuse uses .rpm too. I didn't really like OpenSuse in gnome or kde flavors although kde is much better than gnome on OpenSuse. I probably learned the most from Arch, however I've got a decent machine and the benefits of using Arch weren't worth the work of setting it up.

I also installed Arch recently on my laptop and I don't really see any significant advantage over Ubuntu or Suse or Mandriva. Once Arch is set up properly it runs very nice, but there is no significant speed up and nothing really "cool" except the rolling release (which is not always so cool especially if something gets broken after update). Arch is definitely a great distro if you are adventurous and want to look under the hood, but I would never use it at work - it takes to much time to maintain the system itself.