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barisurum
October 30th, 2009, 09:09 PM
Yes, it is a thread for your complaints and to express your disappointments. Name the linux projects or apps that made you crazy in front of your screen. Then explain openly why they make you mad. Projects that promised a bright future and exploited your hopes, maybe development progress is so slow that it makes you tear your hair out! The developers shouldn't get upset by the results. I think this type of criticism is necessary (and makes me relax). Here I begin:

1. Pulseaudio:

The pulseaudio team says it is ubuntu dev team's fault that the server is not adjusted to the OS properly. But it is certain that pulseaudio still makes me go crazy! After all there have been many years after the initial release but pulseaudio (or ubuntu implementation) has quite numerous bugs. Meanwhile JACK server is skyrocketing with the same alsa drivers!

2. Rosegarden: (update: see edit)

Users like me still wait for the qt4 version of this sequencer after ages! They have released a last qt3 version (1.7.3) but this version has critical bugs that make the program quit unexpectedly. I use the 1.7.2 version that I downloaded from getdeb. A bug-free and fast rosegarden? Is it possible?

3. Lumiera:

OK it is a big project. OK development takes time, they write it completely from scratch. But why is all the hassle about video shows, facebook groups, development meetings? All the announcements, a logo contest and time goes by and we have nothing in the field... Puff! :(

4. Open source ATI driver and fglrx:

It has been 3 years now but we still don't have proper opengl 2.1, glsl, power management, TV out supports in OSS ATI driver! And yes I know there have been major improvements but isn't it a little bit slow? NVIDIA has opengl 3.2 support by the way :) OK their drivers are closed source and yes closed source is eeevil, but they just damn work! I don't know about the current status of fglrx because it is forbidden for me to use it (ATI X1950XT) :) Can anyone enlighten me a bit?

Yes, thats it from me for now I await yours. :)

edit: I recently compiled the svn version of qt4 rosegarden (thorn) and the program seems promising :) much faster and snappy! Of course there are missing functions and bugs now but I think a disappointment will become a great relief when this will be released :) I will do whatever I can to assist the developers of course!

dragos240
October 30th, 2009, 09:11 PM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

hoppipolla
October 30th, 2009, 09:39 PM
erm, I don't know really. There are a few projects I use here in KDE that are unfinished or not perfect, but they will improve fast.

As for disappointed me... I do really hope Gnome 3 turns out to be something special or if it doesn't that it won't in any way hold Ubuntu back, as I hope they go for whichever DE is genuinely better.

XMMS2 I thought was going to be better than it has been so far.

I thought Firefox was going to progress faster (but then 4 might show promise)

That might be it for now. Interesting idea for a thread though - this will get some real opinions coming out I think (it will probably end in a fight but let's face it most threads on here do! lol) :)

Let's try to keep it civil! :)

barisurum
October 30th, 2009, 10:13 PM
Let's try to keep it civil!
I agree that whatever the opinions may be they must remain in the criticism realm and nothing else. The aim of this thread is not to attack people or underestimate people's hard work.

SunnyRabbiera
October 30th, 2009, 10:18 PM
KDE4 I would say is my biggest let down, and I have a feeling Gnome 3 wont be much different.
But KDE 4 is making great progress, I really dig KDE 4.3.2
For other technologies like pulse, never had issues with them.

hoppipolla
October 30th, 2009, 10:22 PM
KDE4 I would say is my biggest let down, and I have a feeling Gnome 3 wont be much different.
But KDE 4 is making great progress, I really dig KDE 4.3.2
For other technologies like pulse, never had issues with them.

hehe I'm glad you said that about 4.3.2 - I thought I could feel the first argument of the thread coming on! lol

You know how defensive I get of KDE... :D

saulgoode
October 30th, 2009, 10:22 PM
Linux 8086 (http://ftp.uk.linux.org/Papers_CathPaper.cs) was somewhat disappointing. Other than that, Linux development has seemed pretty effective.

gjoellee
October 30th, 2009, 10:25 PM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

http://hannahmontana.sourceforge.net/Site/Home.html

Oh S*** Thats horrible!

Bachstelze
October 30th, 2009, 10:25 PM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

I would rather say it's a very successful troll.

gjoellee
October 30th, 2009, 10:27 PM
I would rather say it's a very successful troll.

Yes actually it is, but still....:shock:

I have to say that Evolution really disappoints me, I can't even use it!

spoons
October 30th, 2009, 10:29 PM
Gnash: It seems to go through version after version and nothing really works properly. It's really slow and likes to make the computer hang on a lot of videos.

Open Source ATi drivers: They were promised 2 years ago and yet anyone with a recent ATi card still can't get proper support. Nobody seems to care too much either, some distros seem to prefer shaving boot time is more important than 3D drivers which work properly.

Empathy: It's one step forward, two steps back. It hasn't got any better than Pidgin (in some ways it's worse) and still only does what the original windows messenger did back in 2001.

Gallium3D/DRI2: These projects were supposed to revolutionise 3D on Linux yet but you seem to be out of luck with anything except an Intel card, which were supposed to have really good open source support anyway.

Compiz: See points about ATi driver.

hoppipolla
October 30th, 2009, 10:31 PM
Yes actually it is, but still....:shock:

I have to say that Evolution really disappoints me, I can't even use it!

Really? I actually really enjoyed Evolution, I even preferred it to Thunderbird! Right now I'm using KMail though, which I really like :)

SuperSonic4
October 30th, 2009, 10:34 PM
I've never got this PulseAudio stuff but perhaps it's because Phonon and it's backends (especially phonon-xine) work fine.

I'm a little disappointed with Koffice 2 - I wanted a more native office than MS Office/OO.o

Otherwise I'm actually pretty pleased, perhaps it's because KDE 4.x is moving forward at a phenominal rate. KMess, K3B, Amarok, Dolphin, Gwenview are all moving quickly :D

hoppipolla
October 30th, 2009, 10:38 PM
I've never got this PulseAudio stuff but perhaps it's because Phonon and it's backends (especially phonon-xine) work fine.

I'm a little disappointed with Koffice 2 - I wanted a more native office than MS Office/OO.o

Otherwise I'm actually pretty pleased, perhaps it's because KDE 4.x is moving forward at a phenominal rate. KMess, K3B, Amarok, Dolphin, Gwenview are all moving quickly :D

exactly, I truly, truly hope Canonical acknowledges KDE more when it reaches a higher level of maturity.

Either that or that Gnome 3 is staggering, that would work too :)

lykwydchykyn
October 30th, 2009, 10:41 PM
Kpackagekit is on my poo-list right now. I thought it was to be "greatly improved" in karmic, but it's still useless for serious package management.
- Can't pin/hold/lock packages
- Can't dist-upgrade (i.e., update packages that require new package installs/removals).
- Can't force an older version
- Can't clear the package cache
- Interface makes me work too much for information (e.g., compare browsing the repository in KPackageKit to synaptic).

EDIT: forgot a few:
- Can't see recommends/suggests
- Can't mark for reinstall
- Can't differentiate between "purge" and "remove" actions (not sure what it does by default, don't want to find out)
- Can't browse/search by source, dependencies

Ugh... that's enough. I won't go on.

Yeah, I know all the dev drama that's going on with APT support in PackageKit... just why use it when it's SO not ready?

earthpigg
October 30th, 2009, 10:57 PM
GNOME's recent trend of moving away from modularity is a bit annoying, to me.

only because it means additional work on my end filling in core component gaps (login manager, networking applet, power management applet) in LXDE for my project... i cant just take stuff from GNOME to fill in the holes any more, unless i use a bunch of legacy stuff. :D

it was nice being able to use the networking, power, and login manager daemons ubuntu users where already familiar with.

wicd (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wicd_%28Linux_Network_Manager%29) aint bad, though.

qamelian
October 30th, 2009, 11:31 PM
exactly, I truly, truly hope Canonical acknowledges KDE more when it reaches a higher level of maturity.

Either that or that Gnome 3 is staggering, that would work too :)

Canonical already acknowledges KDE. In a recent Linux Format article, it was mentioned that Canonical is one of the largest financial sponsors of KDE development.

forrestcupp
October 30th, 2009, 11:45 PM
The kernel. :-\"

toupeiro
October 30th, 2009, 11:50 PM
wpa_supplicant
Virtual-GL (the ability to use VNC and get direct rendering.)
Amarok-2.x (far cry from 1.4, even though it is taking baby steps at getting better.)
Mono
moonlight
X11rdp


those are the first that come to mind.

Icehuck
October 30th, 2009, 11:53 PM
Kubuntu.

Every release just seems like a step backwards compared to any other distro running KDE.

hoppipolla
October 30th, 2009, 11:58 PM
Canonical already acknowledges KDE. In a recent Linux Format article, it was mentioned that Canonical is one of the largest financial sponsors of KDE development.

yeah I know, but kubuntu is quite poor and Gnome/Ubuntu gets all the focus. Oh well, we'll see what happens :)

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 12:08 AM
I would rather say it's a very successful troll.

Successfull troll is successfull!

Screwdriver0815
October 31st, 2009, 12:20 AM
Kubuntu.

Every release just seems like a step backwards compared to any other distro running KDE.
+1

but I would say it is always some steps behind and does never catch up. They even lose ground by doing things like Ayatana instead of implementing a good networkmanager (its my all time favourite complaint...)

joey-elijah
October 31st, 2009, 12:21 AM
Blog editors
Bilbo is almost there (if crashy and not keen on enhancing support for anything outside of Wordpress ), BloGTK 2.0 should be released sometime soon-ish (when the developer stops deciding the project is dead every 6 months) and wow... there we have it.

Windows Live Writer is one beast of an application - drag and drop support, multi-service etc. I'd like for something like that on Linux - i just hope the Bilbo team can move past their Wordpress elitism to deliver it.

Nautilus
Everyday since i first saw the simplified and cleaned up version of Nautilus (http://davidsiegel.org/nautilus-simplified/) i feel sad that it's not the default.

It also feels a bit pre-windows XP in many respects. How about some proper media-happy thumbnails for file type specific folders (photos, videos, etc)?

How about letting us tweak that side pane a bit more, too?

hoppipolla
October 31st, 2009, 12:35 AM
Nautilus
Everyday since i first saw the simplified and cleaned up version of Nautilus (http://davidsiegel.org/nautilus-simplified/) i feel sad that it's not the default.

It also feels a bit pre-windows XP in many respects. How about some proper media-happy thumbnails for file type specific folders (photos, videos, etc)?

How about letting us tweak that side pane a bit more, too?

*cough* Dolphin *cough*

hehe :)

dragos240
October 31st, 2009, 12:40 AM
*cough* Dolphin *cough*

hehe :)

Dolphin is bulkier and heavier. So is the rest of KDE :p

the8thstar
October 31st, 2009, 12:41 AM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

I second that. Terrible idea that was...

hoppipolla
October 31st, 2009, 12:52 AM
Dolphin is bulkier and heavier. So is the rest of KDE :p

I just don't think that's true - Dolphin fires up like lightning on here. But each to their own! heh :)

ssri
October 31st, 2009, 10:07 AM
I just don't think that's true - Dolphin fires up like lightning on here. But each to their own! heh :)

I have to second this opinion. Dolphin is wickedly fast here.

ssri
October 31st, 2009, 10:20 AM
Open Source ATi drivers: They were promised 2 years ago and yet anyone with a recent ATi card still can't get proper support. Nobody seems to care too much either, some distros seem to prefer shaving boot time is more important than 3D drivers which work properly.


Well, AMD/ATI released hardware specs for their recent cards (R600+) last January, hardly two years ago. If you have a recent ATI card, at least be thankful that you have a choice for fully working 3D, powersaving and TVout support with the proprietary drivers. In contrast, ATI shoved those of us with 1.5-2 year old cards into the legacy pile last March (see many irate threads from ATI users) and left us no option but to use the opensource drivers. Granted, the opensource drivers 2D performance beats their proprietary counterparts and they are still in active development. However, their advantages at this moment, in terms of functionality, ends there. It will be interesting to see how gallium3D shapes up, as it seems like there will be a pretty large push to get 3D acceleration ready once gallium3D matures. However, it seems to be anybody's guess when that is going to happen.

HappinessNow
October 31st, 2009, 10:43 AM
DreamLinux AKA NightmareLinux: The absolute worst Linux distro that ever existed.

JBAlaska
October 31st, 2009, 10:55 AM
*cough* Dolphin *cough*

hehe :)

*cough-cough* Krusader *cough-cough- ehemm*

Dolphin is cool also! (BTW, I'm a Gnome user with KDE libs)

Glucklich
October 31st, 2009, 11:03 AM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

Oh no, you guys didn't... HML is AWESOME! Currently testing and keeping it. Way better than those KDE's default themes.

AllRadioisDead
October 31st, 2009, 11:08 AM
Oh no, you guys didn't... HML is AWESOME! Currently testing and keeping it. Way better than those KDE's default themes.
I have no words for you.

kio_http
October 31st, 2009, 11:12 AM
Baisicly I can't set up a nice webcam surveillance syste with ubuntu like I do with YAWCAM (http://www.yawcam.com/) in Windows. I heared of zoneminder but it has a web interface and I need a on desktop GUI.

JBAlaska
October 31st, 2009, 11:15 AM
What happens if you let Ubuntu Satanic Edition and HannaMontanaLinux share the same /home partition... You get..No I better not..Never mind lol.

Glucklich
October 31st, 2009, 11:16 AM
I have no words for you.

So, let me get this straight... You answered me to say you have no words for me? Wow...

cb951303
October 31st, 2009, 12:11 PM
NetworkManager
Firefox / Thunderbird
Samba
Liferea
Openoffice


Everytime (and I mean it) I use these applications I want to blow my head off.

Viva
October 31st, 2009, 12:23 PM
mono:neutral::-#

Glucklich
October 31st, 2009, 12:43 PM
mono:nervous:

I'll second that. Not nervous though.

koleoptero
October 31st, 2009, 12:52 PM
Oh no, you guys didn't... HML is AWESOME! Currently testing and keeping it. Way better than those KDE's default themes.


Successfull troll is successfull!

:-k

Странник
October 31st, 2009, 12:52 PM
Freeciv

3d please....

praveesh
October 31st, 2009, 12:55 PM
KUbuntu project . It's one of the worst kde implementations . Many people blame kde for the kUbuntu's fault. And some bloggers compare Ubuntu and KUbuntu as a comparison between Gnome and KDE .

K.Mandla
October 31st, 2009, 01:46 PM
I suppose I will always be disappointed by Xubuntu, but that's for my own reasons. The people who use it are happy with it, and that's reason enough not to change it.

Aside from that I can't think of anything particularly "disappointing." If something doesn't behave the way I like, or changes in a way that I don't agree with, I just use something else. There's plenty out there.

gnomeuser
October 31st, 2009, 01:50 PM
gnome-shell, when we first started debating all these nifty concepts for GNOME3 and how we might evolve the desktop there were so many interesting ideas to explore... and yet this is what we end up with. ](*,)

Digikid
October 31st, 2009, 02:44 PM
Zonbu.

hoppipolla
October 31st, 2009, 02:55 PM
KUbuntu project . It's one of the worst kde implementations . Many people blame kde for the kUbuntu's fault. And some bloggers compare Ubuntu and KUbuntu as a comparison between Gnome and KDE .

There's a limit to how long you can hide quality for :)

kevdog
October 31st, 2009, 03:07 PM
Id have to say that samba -- really stinks!!!! Its been that way for years -- no good!

Keyper7
October 31st, 2009, 03:24 PM
HannaMontanaLinux. Who thought of THAT!? It's a pitiful idea.

I thought disappointment required expectations in the first place?


gnome-shell, when we first started debating all these nifty concepts for GNOME3 and how we might evolve the desktop there were so many interesting ideas to explore... and yet this is what we end up with. ](*,)

But we didn't end up with anything yet, right? I suppose you are not satisfied with the overall concept, regardless of implementation?

And my personal vote in this thread goes to Firefox. The jewel of open source that is hard to integrate with other apps. The cross-plataform browser that treats Linux as a second-class citizen. The lightweight version of Mozilla that today is the most bloated browser around.

the fix it man
October 31st, 2009, 03:30 PM
GnomeShell/Gnome3

When it's launched within the next year I really don't what I will do, may have to resort to using dad's iMac.

praveesh
October 31st, 2009, 04:28 PM
There's a limit to how long you can hide quality for :)

Iam sorry to tell that I didn't understand what you meant

Frak
October 31st, 2009, 05:51 PM
mono:neutral::-#
One of the best projects IMHO. Brought me over to developing more for Linux.

I am dissapoint Project? Gnome. Feels like a swamp now.

lykwydchykyn
November 1st, 2009, 08:49 PM
Name the linux projects or apps that made you crazy in front of your screen. Then explain openly why they make you mad.

Lot of project names being thrown around here, but not a lot of explaining. So much for constructiveness.

Regenweald
November 1st, 2009, 08:51 PM
Yes, it is a thread for your complaints and to express your disappointments. Name the linux projects or apps that made you crazy in front of your screen. Then explain openly why they make you mad. Projects that promised a bright future and exploited your hopes, maybe development progress is so slow that it makes you tear your hair out! The developers shouldn't get upset by the results. I think this type of criticism is necessary (and makes me relax). Here I begin:

1. Pulseaudio:

The pulseaudio team says it is ubuntu dev team's fault that the server is not adjusted to the OS properly. But it is certain that pulseaudio still makes me go crazy! After all there have been many years after the initial release but pulseaudio (or ubuntu implementation) has quite numerous bugs. Meanwhile JACK server is skyrocketing with the same alsa drivers!

2. Rosegarden:

Users like me still wait for the qt4 version of this sequencer after ages! They have released a last qt3 version (1.7.3) but this version has critical bugs that make the program quit unexpectedly. I use the 1.7.2 version that I downloaded from getdeb. A bug-free and fast rosegarden? Is it possible?

3. Lumiera:

OK it is a big project. OK development takes time, they write it completely from scratch. But why is all the hassle about video shows, facebook groups, development meetings? All the announcements, a logo contest and time goes by and we have nothing in the field... Puff! :(

4. Open source ATI driver and fglrx:

It has been 3 years now but we still don't have proper opengl 2.1, glsl, power management, TV out supports in OSS ATI driver! And yes I know there have been major improvements but isn't it a little bit slow? NVIDIA has opengl 3.2 support by the way :) OK their drivers are closed source and yes closed source is eeevil, but they just damn work! I don't know about the current status of fglrx because it is forbidden for me to use it (ATI X1950XT) :) Can anyone enlighten me a bit?

Yes, thats it from me for now I await yours. :)

And with all the complaints please also note how much testing time and bug reports you have dedicated to aforementioned projects.

hoppipolla
November 1st, 2009, 09:17 PM
Iam sorry to tell that I didn't understand what you meant

Sorry what I meant was, no matter how much the Kubuntu team seem to want to break KDE, it will become so good that the quality will shine through regardless :)

Sunflower1970
November 1st, 2009, 09:47 PM
Amarok 2.2.

I spent all morning trying it out. What I found I didn't like. The cover manager kept crashing and/or would take forever to populate. Unlike 1.4 or even Exaile.

This was one project I was kind of excited about. I had liked what I saw, but it seems that most of the settings I used were gone, I was unable to skin it (I'm using Gnome), and it just didn't seem as intuitive as 1.4. I'll keep my eye on it, though and may try again at a later date.

Also that Grip is no longer in the repos. Husband used it all the time to rip his music. Now I'm on the hunt for something new for him to use. (Already tried to install Grip in Karmic, but it won't work.)

Arthur_D
November 1st, 2009, 10:33 PM
SuperTux milestone 2.
It's almost totally dead now, after adding lots and lots of new stuff without keeping the style from the last version. The developers have said themselves they had too little time to finish it, but why nobody else has picked up the project is somewhat amusing.

Desktop Drapes.
It's also abandoned, with an ugly bug that makes it unusable for me. Another abandoned wallpaper switcher I tried didn't even start.

BloGTK
November 6th, 2009, 04:15 AM
Blog editors
Bilbo is almost there (if crashy and not keen on enhancing support for anything outside of Wordpress ), BloGTK 2.0 should be released sometime soon-ish (when the developer stops deciding the project is dead every 6 months) and wow... there we have it.

Windows Live Writer is one beast of an application - drag and drop support, multi-service etc. I'd like for something like that on Linux - i just hope the Bilbo team can move past their Wordpress elitism to deliver it.

BloGTK 2.0 has been out for a while now. :p

Right now there's a very annoying bug with Karmic though, due to a segfault bug in the WebKit library. The developer of that library has been notified, and hopefully that will get fixed soon.

murderslastcrow
November 6th, 2009, 06:14 AM
Gnome-panel's problems with bonobo. One main issue is that new users who want Gnomenu installed can't use the newest, fastest version since they have to work around this bug not allowing it to launch at start up. So they're stuck with a sluggish 1.6 release.

I know that's a tiny, ridiculous complaint, but I can't really come up with any other complaints after Flash's performance in Karmic (quite nice).

Windows Nerd
November 6th, 2009, 06:51 AM
Hanna Montana Linux made me barf. That and the way Ubuntu is going: every distro there are more and more problems, and the UI is starting to borrow from OSX and Windows.

Surprisingly, most people hate pulseaudio, I have had not a single problem with it.

edin9
November 6th, 2009, 06:52 AM
PulseAudio.

SKLP
November 6th, 2009, 09:26 AM
1. Beagle/Tracker (really the problem is Inotify): They both seemed so promising, but turns out there is no use for them until http://jamiemcc.livejournal.com/10814.html is fixed. One of the great advantages of the desktp search systems would have been that updatedb could be removed, and find/locate both being layered on top of the search engines.
And (partly due to inotify) they both suffer from having to crawl the home dir at every login. And problems also include not being able to search the whole drive...
(Look at OS X Spotlight( which is system-wide). This is what should have happened with Tracker/beagle.

So sad......

2. The (X11) clipboard. Enough said. It is broken and never seems to get fixed.

3. X11 in general. How come it's still impossible to get a flicker free experience that's decently fast (at least as fast as say, Windows 7) on the same hardware. The GL_EXT_TEXTURE_FROM_PIXMAP that compiz (and now gnome-shell) is using is even broken, so it's not possible to do a flicker free experience.
This is another area where OS X got it right. OSX has had a composited desktop that's *NOT POSSIBLE TO DISABLE* since 10.0 (released in 2001!).

4. How come we still don't have a) support for hibernation that is not tied to swap partition b) automatically resized swap files

XubuRoxMySox
November 6th, 2009, 01:24 PM
LXDE (http://lxde.org) for me. During my obsessed quest for ever more lightweight Ubuntu that also offered a graphical interface, LXDE certainly fit the bill, and it may someday rival Xfce as "the best lightweight d.e.).

But in every single variant I tried (U-Lite, Masonux, Crunchbang with LXDE on top, minimal install with LXDE, and the Lubuntu-desktop in Karmic), LXDE was buggy! Some only minor little annoyances like having to un-mute the sound at every boot-up, and sometimes major problems like having to force shutdowns from the terminal. Grrrr.

I've learned that LXDE takes the majority of its code from Xfce! Yet it's a much smaller download and much lighter weight. I think they're onto something really good and I wish the project well. Lubuntu may turn out to be awesome (it ain't yet though) if they can get all the bugs out.

My first forays into Xfce have been fun. Xubuntu is gorgeous, and to my surprise and delight, very fast! And no bugs! I think the Xubuntu people got the message about "bloat" and really listened. And my obsession with "lighter and faster yet" has waned, lol.

But I'll keep an eye on LXDE and contribute where I can. It has alot of promise and they're off to a great start (I even installed PCManFM in my Xubuntu because I like it better), but it's "immature." I think that when LXDE "matures," it'll likely look and function alot like Xfce does now.

-Robin

gnomeuser
November 6th, 2009, 01:33 PM
Zonbu.

I wouldn't say it was the most disappointing project but I own a Zonbu. The machine itself is riddled with problems, it's underpowered (being as it is a generation of low power cpus before the current ARM Cortex A9 MP and the Intel ATOM) and the OS was never well maintained.

That being said, the concept was great, I really enjoyed using my Zonbu and would continue to do so was it not for the fact that the new version doesn't install on my machine for some reason and that one of the ram modules developed a small problem (and I am not about to pry that thing open to see if I can replace it).

I am sad that they didn't manage to build a business for themselves, I think they had some right ideas, som wrong implementations but fundamentally it was a good concept and one that I think will succeed in the future.

gnomeuser
November 6th, 2009, 01:37 PM
But we didn't end up with anything yet, right? I suppose you are not satisfied with the overall concept, regardless of implementation?


We have ended up with something, namely a path to wrongness that cannot be changed this late in the game and still is expected to be our future. I am unhappy with the concept, the design, the design rational, the implementation language, the implementation.. in fact the only thing I am happy with is that someone thought about a desktop redesign which I know takes bravery.

gnome-shell to me symbolizes the same level wrongness that was going from the Saturn 5 rockets to the, one supposes ironically named, Space Shuttle.

markp1989
November 6th, 2009, 02:41 PM
Hanna Montana Linux made me barf. That and the way Ubuntu is going: every distro there are more and more problems, and the UI is starting to borrow from OSX and Windows.

Surprisingly, most people hate pulseaudio, I have had not a single problem with it.

that is horible!! HML i hope they were having a laff.

RiceMonster
November 6th, 2009, 02:44 PM
I find it funny how many people get worked up over Hannah Montana Linux

markp1989
November 6th, 2009, 03:02 PM
I find it funny how many people get worked up over Hannah Montana Linux

at the end of the day its just kubuntu with a different ugly theme (or am i mising somthing here)

Ric_NYC
November 6th, 2009, 06:41 PM
Xorg and PulseAudio.


2009 and I still cannot do some things in my computer because of those 2.


Empathy = half-baked.
Firefox = slow.

LowSky
November 6th, 2009, 07:18 PM
ATI Drivers -- AMD is making things somewhat better, but if you own a 2-3 year old PC it may not have a decent driver.

Flash for 64bit, we need the driver to be completed. Using Aphla/Beta ware is annoying.

Moonlight, Microsoft releases a newer version of Silverlight and Linux version called Moonlight cant keep up, when Moonlight finnaly gets updated, Silverlight is updated again, vicious cycle.

Evolution/Thunderbird, both have issues that make them poor replacements for Outlook.

Firefox, has gotten too heavy and bloated, which equals slow and annoying.

Pidgin, they still haven't developed video and voice chat for the majority of IM protocols. NOw Ubuntu uses Empathy by default but it too looks under developed, but suppoedly has "more potential", yeah ok!

KDE4, released just to be released, sure things are now fine, but come on, don't release something til its ready, or you end up with a disaster, like MS Vista.

Xubuntu, is not really that lightweight, LXDE shows some progress but we will see.

gOS, a ubuntu based distro that Everex tried to sell to Walmart on VIA based computers. Dumb and frugal people purchased these machine and then realized that they couldn't run their "Windows".

OpenSolaris, not Linux, but close enough, great idea, really nice layout, but for whatever reason its not getting any appeal from users. ZFS is a great file mangement system.

Google Chrome OS, A while ago Google was using a modified version of Ubuntu in house, now they are making their own flavor. I like the idea of a strong company getting behind opensource, but it could be developing a current release instead of making its own.

Wow I have a long list....

Lightstar
November 6th, 2009, 08:04 PM
+1 for pulseaudio.

The only problems I ever have are with pulseaudio

Frak
November 7th, 2009, 12:53 AM
at the end of the day its just kubuntu with a different ugly theme (or am i mising somthing here)
It's more than that, it's a lifestyle.

seeker5528
November 7th, 2009, 02:13 AM
I'm most disappointed about Firestarter. It's got some decent features, and still seems to have some popularity, but 2+ years of rotting on the vine is starting to show. If somebody doesn't step up to maintain it, it seems like only a matter of time before distributions start deciding it is too much trouble to continue including it.

I'm also frustrated about the user hostile approach of pulseaudio grabbing exclusive access to the sound card. Uhm, for some reason I have that Rush lyric running through my head:


Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
Attention all Planets of the Solar Federation
We have assumed control
We have assumed control
We have assumed control

:roll::roll::roll:

Later, Seeker

rb0171610
November 7th, 2009, 02:19 AM
hehe I'm glad you said that about 4.3.2 - I thought I could feel the first argument of the thread coming on! lol

You know how defensive I get of KDE... :D
You seem like a smart guy, have you thought of trying another distro? One that is more KDE centric or maybe leaves you with a clear choice? Just curious. I do not use Ubuntu anymore, I just enjoy the forums.

rb0171610
November 7th, 2009, 02:22 AM
I wished that PulseAudio worked for me, but it does not. There are problems with the microphone that I cannot fix. I don't have any use for it anyway, but it is a nice thought.

ad_267
November 7th, 2009, 02:56 AM
1. Beagle/Tracker (really the problem is Inotify): They both seemed so promising, but turns out there is no use for them until http://jamiemcc.livejournal.com/10814.html is fixed. One of the great advantages of the desktp search systems would have been that updatedb could be removed, and find/locate both being layered on top of the search engines.
And (partly due to inotify) they both suffer from having to crawl the home dir at every login. And problems also include not being able to search the whole drive...
(Look at OS X Spotlight( which is system-wide). This is what should have happened with Tracker/beagle.

So sad......

2. The (X11) clipboard. Enough said. It is broken and never seems to get fixed.

3. X11 in general. How come it's still impossible to get a flicker free experience that's decently fast (at least as fast as say, Windows 7) on the same hardware. The GL_EXT_TEXTURE_FROM_PIXMAP that compiz (and now gnome-shell) is using is even broken, so it's not possible to do a flicker free experience.
This is another area where OS X got it right. OSX has had a composited desktop that's *NOT POSSIBLE TO DISABLE* since 10.0 (released in 2001!).

4. How come we still don't have a) support for hibernation that is not tied to swap partition b) automatically resized swap files

+1 to all of that. Mostly 2 and 3. I have high hopes for Wayland!

-1 to all the PulseAudio comments. I've found PulseAudio has greatly improved the audio experience for me.

Frak
November 7th, 2009, 03:38 AM
-1 to all the PulseAudio comments. I've found PulseAudio has greatly improved the audio experience for me.

WorksForMe™ holds so much more influence over Doesn'tWorkForMe™.

TheLastDodo
November 7th, 2009, 03:42 AM
I think that the KDE developers took a good thing and ruined it when transitioning from the KDE 3.x series to the 4 series. Some years later, it's still missing a ton of functionality present in the older version of the DE.

ad_267
November 7th, 2009, 03:43 AM
WorksForMe™ holds so much more influence over Doesn'tWorkForMe™.

Just saying it works well for me. Never said it was perfect.

Also, to the KDE 4 comments. KDE 4 is a pretty fundamental change which the developers have explained is necessary for the continued momentum of KDE. It's not going to be able to include all of the functionality from KDE 3 straight away. To label it as disappointing this early on is a bit harsh.

pt123
November 7th, 2009, 07:54 AM
PulseAudio
Gnome
Tracker
Rhythmbox
F-Spot

JBAlaska
November 7th, 2009, 08:23 AM
We have ended up with something, namely a path to wrongness that cannot be changed this late in the game and still is expected to be our future. I am unhappy with the concept, the design, the design rational, the implementation language, the implementation.. in fact the only thing I am happy with is that someone thought about a desktop redesign which I know takes bravery.

gnome-shell to me symbolizes the same level wrongness that was going from the Saturn 5 rockets to the, one supposes ironically named, Space Shuttle.

+1

If Ubuntu gets "force fed" gnome-shell, I'll be switching to KDE (No threat, just fact).

Naiki Muliaina
November 7th, 2009, 11:18 AM
I suppose I will always be disappointed by Xubuntu, but that's for my own reasons. The people who use it are happy with it, and that's reason enough not to change it.

Hmms yeahs i was kinda unhappy with it. But then im also unhappy with XFCE at the moment. Jaunty was the first Xubuntu in a few releases i though was good but eh.... Not enough to make me stay.


gnome-shell, when we first started debating all these nifty concepts for GNOME3 and how we might evolve the desktop there were so many interesting ideas to explore... and yet this is what we end up with. ](*,)


My issue to, though im a lurker to development. I watch forums and mailing lists but dont get in there myself. After seeing all the bright enthusiasm and ideas bobblin about a few months ago, Gnome 3 sorta feels to.... Samey...


I think that could be something to do with my boredom with PC's atm, everything feels the same to me. WM's all have their own little ways, but they are all feel the same when you have tried them all. About the only huge difference i find now is Tiling or non Tiling. Gnome 3 is sorta different but its not the big evolutionary leap it could / should have been. It just sorta feels like just Gnome with a new skin across the desktop.....

Mwah... Enough of my random whining... Someone else take the stage please! ^^

gradinaruvasile
November 7th, 2009, 11:23 AM
PulseAudio.It is around for the 4th distribution and its broken still.

Maybe its not exactly PulseAudio thet dissapoints in this case but the decision makers who included it in the core of Ubuntu (if u uninstall it in Karmic u got no sound in totem and no sound config gui...).

lzfy
November 7th, 2009, 11:46 AM
Kde4. Starting to get too many options. I wish they kept it simple.

SKLP
November 7th, 2009, 06:34 PM
I don't understand why everyone seems to dislike PulseAudio. Except for before when Ubuntu had configured it ALL WRONG, it has always just been (for me atleast) like dmix (which is what ubuntu used before pulse) but with a few extra features.
That said, it's not all that fantastic either. dmix worked pretty well also

seeker5528
November 7th, 2009, 11:45 PM
I don't understand why everyone seems to dislike PulseAudio. Except for before when Ubuntu had configured it ALL WRONG, it has always just been (for me atleast) like dmix (which is what ubuntu used before pulse) but with a few extra features.
That said, it's not all that fantastic either. dmix worked pretty well also

Primarily dmix provides software mixing for multiple audio streams when the mixing support isn't built into the hardware, more or less basic functionality that if it doesn't work for alsa programs it's a bug. Dmix doesn't work for OSS programs because of limitations in the OSS compatibility stuff.

Jack has a reason to grab exclusive access, it's designed for low latency and, to the extent possible, to make sure things happen in a timely manner. And things are eased a bit because it's designed to be easily started when you want it stopped when you don't.

Pulseaudio on the other hand, doesn't go out of it's way to provide low latency, doesn't care about professional audio needs, doesn't have any obvious management allowing to choose if you want it running or not.

That one slider to rule them all thing makes less sense to me than a one button mouse and I thought we were going to be done with this whole misguided notion of dueling audio daemons that think they need exclusive access to your audio hardware when KDE got rid of Artsd. :p

I don't understand the resistance to the idea of making pulseaudio work in a less hostile fashion that allows the user to choose when it should be running and when it shouldn't and/or opt to have some applications using it while at the same time allowing others to use ALSA directly.

Later, Seeker

Frak
November 7th, 2009, 11:55 PM
Linux - It was great in the beginning, and then everybody got their hands on it and made it as bloated as possible. Now it's surrounded by thousands of die-hards that want companies to write drivers for it even though the licensing terms don't fit what companies want.

I'm talking about the kernel itself. The thing looks messy.

Grant A.
November 8th, 2009, 12:08 AM
The Mana World: It was great at first, but after some new people got powers, things just went to hell. The GMs got a god complex, and so did the programmers. All of a sudden, the artists were looked down on and to become a developer or get git access you needed to be able to program. Not only that, but the update chain was really slow and broken.

It's sad when a great project with a lot of potential goes to crap because of mismanagement.

t.rei
November 8th, 2009, 12:16 AM
Gnome Panel. - This has never again been as flexible and reliable as the gnome 1.2 panel.

Evolution in Ubuntu and no proper, easy to set up groupware server to use it. Thats just... crap.

Frak
November 8th, 2009, 12:17 AM
The Mana World: It was great at first, but after some new people got powers, things just went to hell. The GMs got a god complex, and so did the programmers. All of a sudden, the artists were looked down on and to become a developer or get git access you needed to be able to program. Not only that, but the update chain was really slow and broken.

It's sad when a great project with a lot of potential goes to crap because of mismanagement.
Quoted for truth. Tremulous is getting that way.

qazwsx
November 8th, 2009, 12:20 AM
Must be Avisynth 3. Very powerfull video scripting stuff there. Currently it is only for Windows as Avisynth 2 (GPL though) and via wine.

ad_267
November 8th, 2009, 12:35 AM
Must be Avisynth 3. Very powerfull video scripting stuff there. Currently it is only for Windows as Avisynth 2 (GPL though) and via wine.

That hardly qualifies as a Linux project then does it? Just because it's open source, doesn't mean it will be able to run on Linux.

qazwsx
November 8th, 2009, 12:45 AM
That hardly qualifies as a Linux project then does it? Just because it's open source, doesn't mean it will be able to run on Linux.

Well,it supposed to be rewrite form vfw to cross platform gstreamer.