please review my how to!

[MelDJ]

i made a how to for parents to stop their children from doing bad things on the web. its really short. i plan to give it away as not many people are in the know of such things (such as my friends parents). Please comment on it! :)

[noelvh]

Hi,
I gave it a quick read and you are on the right track. Keep it up as this is very good info for people.

Noel

[coldReactive]

We should really have all how-tos in plain text files from now on, because I don't want to install OOo at the moment.

[MelDJ]

We should really have all how-tos in plain text files from now on, because I don't want to install OOo at the moment.
noted! :)
for those who want in .txt format, download the one in this post. the first is for open office!

[coldReactive]

noted! :)
for those who want in .txt format, download the one in this post. the first is for open office!

Don't use wordpad for doing text files either, it adds these weird linebreak characters that windows notepad can't parse.

[MelDJ]

Don't use wordpad for doing text files either, it adds these weird linebreak characters that windows notepad can't parse.

i had to use vista to see how IE8 works, and since i did not have word, i had to use wordpad. apologies for any inconvinience

[coldReactive]

i had to use vista to see how IE8 works, and since i did not have word, i had to use wordpad. apologies for any inconvinience

That's why you use notepad for plain text, which comes with Vista. o_O Didn't you see it?

[MelDJ]

completely forgot. :) i used OO to convert the .odt to text though. so i think it will be sufficient. i have gone through it and found no errors either

[MelDJ]

bring on the comments people! :)

[Frak]

BTW, ODT is fully supported in 7 by default. It's recognized as an OpenOffice.org document (OpenDocument Text). Let's you open and edit it without OO.o.

I think it looks fine as it is. Otherwise, I would probably add something on OpenDNS. It has the ability to block mature content without the need of software.

[Nevon]

Or, you could be a good parent, educate your children on whatever perceived dangers you think the internet holds, and trust that they will be able to grow up to be good people despite having seen 2 girls 1 cup - just like millions of other children and young adults have before them.

People imposing their sense of morality (for which they have no grounds) upon others tick me off quite intensely.

[Tipped OuT]

Doesn't seem to be too average user friendly. When you mentioned Linux distrubutions and Live CD's, that would've thrown a lot of people off.

[iKonaK]

Dude, that's f*ck'd up, you want to help the "obsessive diaper sniffers" to SPY their own children ? Man, that is wrong at so many levels...

Parents should talk with their children and listen to them, NOT SPY and block them from using the computer. (no internet, no livecd, ect.)

[MelDJ]

Or, you could be a good parent, educate your children on whatever perceived dangers you think the internet holds, and trust that they will be able to grow up to be good people despite having seen 2 girls 1 cup - just like millions of other children and young adults have before them.

People imposing their sense of morality (for which they have no grounds) upon others tick me off quite intensely.

hm.. actually i made this after witnessing my friends change. I had a friend who was a very smart boy when we were 13. He then started watching porn after being introduced to one of my classmates. he then started talking rudely in class, always coming to me and saying perverted things and his studies faltered dramatically. His parents did not do anything as they trusted what he was doing on the computer. Even when they checked, they saw that firefox's history did not show any porn sites. so they thought, ' well, all is okay'. 5 years on, he is already history.

the thought of having more talented kids like that, get spoilt because of porn drove me at least use my knowledge to do something.


i thank everyone for commenting and i will use all of them to improve my how to and release a new one soon.

do continue commenting though! :)

[Frak]

hm.. actually i made this after witnessing my friends change. I had a friend who was a very smart boy when we were 13. He then started watching porn after being introduced to one of my classmates. he then started talking rudely in class, always coming to me and saying perverted things and his studies faltered dramatically. His parents did not do anything as they trusted what he was doing on the computer. Even when they checked, they saw that firefox's history did not show any porn sites. so they thought, ' well, all is okay'. 5 years on, he is already history.

the thought of having more talented kids like that, get spoilt because of porn drove me at least use my knowledge to do something.


i thank everyone for commenting and i will use all of them to improve my how to and release a new one soon.

do continue commenting though! :)
The same kids that fall face first into cement once they enter the real world.

Hate to say it, but 13 year olds becoming perverted didn't start with the internet. It's just a common thing that happens with kids. They're entering puberty, and that's a fascination.

Sheltered kids usually have a harder time entering into common society compared to those that are allowed to see the world as a whole. That is my assertion, so take it with a grain of salt.

[Tipped OuT]

hm.. actually i made this after witnessing my friends change. I had a friend who was a very smart boy when we were 13. He then started watching porn after being introduced to one of my classmates. he then started talking rudely in class, always coming to me and saying perverted things and his studies faltered dramatically. His parents did not do anything as they trusted what he was doing on the computer. Even when they checked, they saw that firefox's history did not show any porn sites. so they thought, ' well, all is okay'. 5 years on, he is already history.

the thought of having more talented kids like that, get spoilt because of porn drove me at least use my knowledge to do something.

i thank everyone for commenting and i will use all of them to improve my how to and release a new one soon.

do continue commenting though! :)

I doubt porn is the reason for his drop in IQ.

Most likely it was his poor choice in friends. Friends influence kids a lot.

[chris200x9]

install a new browser in some really random location, problem solved.

[MelDJ]

to kids, when the parents say ' no more porn, don't watch it', etc, most will just nod their heads and then continue watching it the next time they get the chance. Children don't care what their parents say (from seeing my classmates). Other kids might stop for a while. But porn is like a parasite, once the kid watch it, the kid cant get enough and it will always be a shadow in his/he life. At school, the mind is on the last vid/pic they saw. Studies take a dip, as the focus is gone. Even if they tried, after a few days, the temptation will be too hard to resist and the child will do it again.

i talk out of my life experiences and on after seeing how my friends and peers behave. i dont think this is cutting down the child's freedom in anyway as porn is useless to everyone and it just brings society down.

thats my point :)

[Nevon]

After having read your statements, MelDJ, I take it you have never read any scientific reports to back up your claims. You know why? Because there aren't any. There was a study conducted by the US senate, if I'm not mistaken, many many years ago - however, that study could not find any harmful effects of consuming pornography. While that study wasn't conducted on teenagers, I believe the point still stands.

What may be useless to you is irrelevant, and to say that porn is "bringing society down" is just complete and utter ******** that you can't in any way rationalise or otherwise back up.

[amingv]

The howto would be great if it wasn't because children tend to know about computers more than their parents ever will. The parents who do know about computers have probabbly already taken all the measures they deemed necessary.

Truth is, there's no effective way of blocking these kind of sites. If your child has come to a level where s/he has become obsessed with the content, your best bet would be to put the pc somewhere visible (like the living room) though they'd still be able to access it through cellphones or other devices (even an innocent Nintendo DSi (which you innocently buy as a game console) has a web browser and wifi access), and even if you restrict access to those they can watch it at their friend's place while they're doing "homework".

There's no automatic block-the-bad-stuff way to raise and educate children, theach them what you believe is good and explain to them why it is. Children don't get spoiled because of computers, they get spoiled because of poor parenting.

I believe your initiative is good, but there must definitely be a better way to parenting than putting a lock to the cookie jar.

[iKonaK]

[...]Children don't get spoiled because of computers, they get spoiled because of poor parenting.[...]
Bingo !


[...] i dont think this is cutting down the child's freedom in anyway as porn is useless to everyone and it just brings society down.
* spying and "locking in" are freedom violations and are not constructive at all
* It's not for you to decide what's useful and what's not for the society, and most of all with out any scientific evidence to back you up.
* on a fun side:
1) Have you ever heard of portable applications, like browsers, you know.....:P
2) You should consider moving in USA, I bet you will find instantly a job within the republican party, i understand that they also like to legalize taste ;) (no offence , just joking)

[MelDJ]

to me, not filtering content of what your child looks at is also a sign of poor parenting.
pornography is like smoking, it is legal by law. you cant put anyone behind bars for watching it. Thats because there is a pot of gold of money in the industry. But you wont want your loved one to be watching it as it so destroys them.

maybe i am a little conservative. but i made this how to to show concerned parents how their child might be visiting inappropriate sites without their knowledge. and i think parents should be aware of that.

I am only 17, so maybe a little to early too be a republican. :P

dont get me wrong, but i am not angry at all by the critiscim. I thank you all for postiing them in a constructive manner

[Nevon]

you wont want your loved one to be watching it as it so destroys them.
Again. There is no data to back up your claim. So please specify exactly how it "destroys" people and exactly why it has that effect. Also, how come millions and millions of people manage to grow up to become decent people despite having watched porn?

[MelDJ]

Again. There is no data to back up your claim. So please specify exactly how it "destroys" people and exactly why it has that effect. Also, how come millions and millions of people manage to grow up to become decent people despite having watched porn?

i dont think such statistics will ever be made because no one will ever own up. No one will answer the questionair by saying i watch porn
To say that millions of people grow up to be decent people too is a generalization.

anyway, from a technical side, is the document any good?

i made this thread to judge my how to and not have a debate (eventhough its jolly fun to have a constructive one) :)

[mivo]

i dont think this is cutting down the child's freedom in anyway as porn is useless to everyone and it just brings society down. thats my point :)

And it is an immature, flawed point. Sex and porn do not kill people. Violence does. This is such a typically American view: sex is bad, violence is fine. In Europe, it's the other way around. Both takes are flawed.

What harm is done if a child sees a pair of ***** or even intercourse? At most, it instills a screwed view on sexuality as porn tends to suggest roles or that some practices are "normal". Not desirable, but I see far more harm in violent games, brutal news displays and so on.

I'm more than twice your age. I think I was 15 or so when I found a porn video tape in my mother's boyfriend's drawer. I watched it. All I thought was "ewww!" and that was it. I never downloaded porn and such, because I always had a woman in my adult life. :) I see little harm in it, though. I had always been able to talk with my mother about things that concerned me, and she'd always listen and explain. For her generation, I believe she was/is a very open-minded woman, and I never felt like I had to hide stuff or go "*GIGGLE!*" at stuff like porn.

The internet is not a babysitter. It is the parents' responsibility to talk to their children and educate them. Seeing a naked person or a coupling pair doesn't somehow change your personality. Suppression isn't the way (it is impossible anyway). Information, education, and communication are the keys to raising responsible, accountable young individuals.

[MelDJ]

it doesn't kill you but it changes the kid. Like the example i cited of my ex-friend. And at my school, porn viewing has already become a norm. And one of the factors is that children are more computer literate than their parents. hence, i produced this document to give an insight

[matthew.ball]

Or, you could be a good parent, educate your children on whatever perceived dangers you think the internet holds, and trust that they will be able to grow up to be good people despite having seen 2 girls 1 cup - just like millions of other children and young adults have before them.

People imposing their sense of morality (for which they have no grounds) upon others tick me off quite intensely.
Haha, well said (I was thinking the same lines and clicked next page :p).

I don't understand how watching porn is related, at all, to a decrease in intelligence, and until I see some empirical evidence to support such claims, I'm calling ********.

Nevon, the further I read your posts, the more I get a sense of deja vu, don't suppose you have any way of chatting off UF (MSN by any chance?) :)

[mivo]

Well, I have never seen anyone getting changed by watching porn. If anything, it made people more managable and relaxed. Testosterone can be annoying when working with people. :)

I think that most kids are more computer-literate than their parents anyway, and they will get around any limitations. What stops anyone from using a Live CD?

I don't disagree with your effort, just with the approach and the motivation. Kids change in their teens, and then they change again between 17-22. There are many reasons, and porn isn't one I ever noticed before. But this is just my view and experience.

[MelDJ]

But this is just my view and experience.

yes. and i respect it and i thank you for taking the trouble to post here. :)
But after my experiences with my friend, as i stated in an earlier post, i feel it does change children.

Maybe its because i live in a place where i am the only one who uses linux. In fact I have come up people in my town who thought that Windows was part of the computer. So imagine if they will know what a live cd is let alone how to check firefox's cache and other simple things.
That is how computer illetarate the people i know are. so i made it for such people.

[matthew.ball]

I don't disagree with your effort, just with the approach and the motivation.
I think that pretty much sums up how the majority of people feel.

[MelDJ]

I think that pretty much sums up how the majority of people feel.

yeah. why not start commenting on the document? because this debate seems like it will never end and i have only 2 comments! :)

[matthew.ball]

The document is OK, I honestly don't see a need for it though, if parents are worried about their children, surely they would educate themselves on computers (they have been around for longer than most people have been alive, they're not a new thing, and illiteracy is no longer valid).

Computers are not difficult, in fact quite the opposite, they are modelled off our own natural intuition.

There are some obvious implications with computers, and this happens to be one of them, sure there are "dark" sides of the Internet, but that's just a fact of life we have to deal with - if you don't want your children seeing it, simple, don't buy them a computer.

[MelDJ]

- if you don't want your children seeing it, simple, don't buy them a computer.

you don't throw the whole comb of bananas when one is rotten ;)

[matthew.ball]

Well then you accept that there are dark areas of the Internet.

[inrepair]

hi...hope you guys don't mind me giving my two cents worth...

many people think that not allowing someone to watch porn is a violation of his/her rights. but from a medical view, watching porn can cause many bad implications...sexual addiction, impairment of social functioning (such as the case of MelDJ's friend)...if the individual (of any age) does not have the ability to control his/her self it may develop into worse things...but this does not mean EVERYONE will be diagnosed as having a disorder from indulging in this.

it all goes down to the level of one's maturity level and ability to discern between right and wrong...the world would be a better place if every child was blessed with parents like mivo's and concerned friends like MelDJ. drugs and smoking were thought to be 'harmless' until the world took notice of the harm it does...same thing here...what many think is a 'harmless' past time can lead to devastating consequences...so i feel, that until the person has reached that level of maturity (again, no matter what his/her age), the closest people to them should act first to not get them 'hooked' onto such things...and who better than their parents...right?

*sorry if it is a little long winded...*

[Bölvaður]

There are things missing.

The opening of the document should be a warning that if a child wants to see porn the parents will never be able to stop it.

But to protect your child from seeing porn on the home computer is possible.

Proxies, you have to block the computer from ALL proxy service there is. First block all public websites linked with proxies. Next block all the most common proxy servers by ip.
But you cannot do that client site, you must control it from router or dns server.

Now we have blocked most proxy sites... which is not complete coverage but will annoy most children that are eager to find their porn.
Block all images and videoclips via firewall. Images can be filtered by size.
This should annoy children that want to see more than tiny thumbnails.

Do not give your child right to install anything.
As long as it can install p2p software they will have unlimited access to very filthy stuff, you better buy your child subscription to playboy than allow this to happen.


Therefore you can only do 1 thing to be sure your child isnt watching porn on the family computer.
1. Have the computer in the kitchen or next to the tv where anyone can see what is going on.
2. Destroy the ethernetcard with a screwdriver. you cannot protect your child vs goatsy and other shock sites, which are worse than porn... but at least they dont get addicted to that sort of filth.... perhaps showing your child shocking filth might not want to see porn.. but Im sure UNICEF will knock down your doors if you do that.


All in all. If the parents do not have the technical knowledge how to protect their child from it self, then they aren't going to be able to do anything. Unless if the parents are highly intelligent and the child is considered quite dimwitted by everyone... then perhaps... Im sorry to say this but we'll never win.

[MelDJ]

to: Bölvaður
thanks. i will note that for my second how to. I will consult the people in my town while making it to get their take.
I am quite proud that over 100 people have viewed my document:)

again, thank you to all of you for posting and giving your views and helping me to make this document. I really appreciate your input a lot and will be working on a much longer how to which i will be starting in the near future.

Don't stop giving your ideas though :)

[bashphoenux]

nice one mate :) !!

[MelDJ]

nice one mate :) !!

thanks for that..appreciate it:)

[bvanaerde]

I am quite proud that over 100 people have viewed my document :)
That's quite normal: it has the word "porn" in it :D

Anyway, in my eyes, the howto is useless (that's a comment too, isn't it?). You will never be able to completely block 18+ content from children. Parents can inform their kids and warn them about what they can find on the internet. Put their PC (and TV) in the living room instead of their bedroom if you want a bit more control.

Sad to hear that friends of yours have become addicted... but I don't think that everybody who has ever watched porn will develop an addiction. Making it more difficult to find porn will not stop kids like him from trying.

[rudihawk]

Good parenting is the only way.

Kids will find a way, believe me.

[MelDJ]

to bvanaerde: HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE MY WORK???? :p
it is a comment.. and i respect it ;)
i don't want to get into explaining because i already have

[Graydawg]

Nothing wrong with a bit of porn!

[toupeiro]

I think its just as ridiculous to say that you must raise your children based on scientific studies, results, and what the senate thinks as much as it is saying you MUST raise your kids according to one parents perception and documented practice. They're all guidelines, you have to do the best you can by your children. In your situation, that could mean giving them space to learn some things on their own, but in other cases that could mean spying on them if necessary. The truth is, nobody has any right to pass judgement on the OP for spying on his/her kids. So what if that's not how you'd handle it. I hope that my relationship with my child would be one where they could ask me about anything, but I also remember being a kid and even if I felt I could talk to my parents about something doesn't mean I did. There's spying to be over-protective, and there is spying out of genuine concern with telling signs that you should. Your children are your responsibility, in my opinion that means you do what you have to to keep them safe, but balance that by giving them the space they need to make their own wise decisions as they mature. Generally, I think if parents are actively involved in their childrens lives, the NEED to resort to spying is much lessened, if not eliminated.

[seandude]

I'm sorry, but I find it inane to believe that watching people have sex would ever ruin a person. It is better that children have a chance to learn and grow, rather than to just wantonly shelter them.

The greatest danger in pornography is how in children who are only exposed to pornography can develop an objectifying view of sexuality. It is better to talk to your child, and try to get them to understand that the sex they see on porn is /not/ the sex they will be having in real life.


As said before, your intentions are good, but I think your view on the matter is a little skewed.

To quote Dune "Shield a child too much, and he becomes weak. Shelter the child too little, and he becomes broken."

I also feel the need to say this, because I so heavily disagree with your view on the damaging properties of pornography... I have watched porn every day it was convenient since i was 14. I first saw porn when I was 7. I am currently enrolled in an arguably good liberal arts university, with a 3.5 GPA, very high morals, and a long term girlfriend. I do not believe that pornography has "spoiled" me at all, despite my viewing it.

Now that the political ranting is done, it's time for technical advice. ;)
I think that if your goal is to educate parents on ways to censure their childrens' internet escapades, you would be better served to provide a more deeply detailed educational document on /how the methods work/. Giving someone a quick 1-2-3 guide on how to do anything can be easily overcome with a little know-how.

Provide something telling parents /why/ the methods work, not just how to do it.

[nikhilbhardwaj]

Or, you could be a good parent, educate your children on whatever perceived dangers you think the internet holds, and trust that they will be able to grow up to be good people despite having seen 2 girls 1 cup - just like millions of other children and young adults have before them.

People imposing their sense of morality (for which they have no grounds) upon others tick me off quite intensely.

very well said
couldnt have said it better myself.

+1

[MelDJ]

the thread title seems to have been ignored by many

[Dullstar]

You have a good intent with this article, although the methods, well, the LiveCD method is a bit extreme. Allow me to suggest a better method. If they have their own computer (which I have for years), make sure that if it has internet connection, it should be wireless and it should be secured so the child cannot connect without a parent's assistance. If they have to use a family computer, then the method you suggested will work, but you will have to make sure that if they want Linux, you may want to consider allowing them to use the liveCD under supervision and only to test out and install the OS. You should know the login password as well.

I have no interest in porn anyways. It's stupid, pointless, dumb, 18+ content, blah blah blah. I will not view porn. Never. My position is firm on the matter. Once I actually (I think, but maybe I just posted a complaint about it) reported a post on a different forum because of the wording used in a link to a youtube video (it sounded inappropriate, and was possibly some form of 18+ content, although the author of the post later said that it was actually a family guy clip). Oh well, can't be too safe, I suppose, as long as you don't block off everything.

I think the reason I still show no interested in porn after recently turning 13 is exceptionally good parenting from my parents' part. They raised me and my brother well, and will continue to do so until we grow up and leave the house for college. I had a computer for years, but only after turning 12 did I get Internet connection in my room. I can browse with privacy, but I don't go to nasty sites - and if I ever do wind up finding one, I basically go "Note to self: Don't go here again" and close the tab. I haven't ever found anything as nasty as porn, and if I ever find any it will be a freak accident that I hope never happens.

Bottom line: don't surf porn - I think it would ruin one's mind most likely, and NO I'M NOT GOING TO FIND OUT.

P.S. You could also do with more methods so children don't encounter porn easily still. Hopefully for the sake of children who want to view porn it's not easy to find at all. It probably is, though. *sigh* the many things wrong with this world.

[Dragonbite]

The method I use blocks not only each computer in the network, but also if their friends bring in their laptops/iPod touch/etc. as well as if they try the LiveCD/LiveUSB trick.

It's an older computer with 2 NICs.. one to the modem and one to the router (wireless or otherwise).

I installed IPCop (http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/ipcop/wiki) for firewall and routing and DansGuardian (http://dansguardian.org/) for filtering on top of that.

One thing that is nice is that it filters not just porn, but firearm, drug, tobacco, hate and more subjects to the levels that I specify.

The only way for them to bypass it is to physically unplug the modem and plug the router into the modem directly. This also removes one firewall layer of protection against the intruders.

No, it is not the end-all, it is a TOOL I use to HELP me keep my kids safe, ALONGSIDE talking, monitoring and watching. Yes, they will test it and yes they may bypass it or get it from other sources but it is still better than sitting back and saying "I can't stop them so I won't try."

Not sure if this method would be a good inclusion or not.

[VastOne]

And it is an immature, flawed point. Sex and porn do not kill people. Violence does. This is such a typically American view: sex is bad, violence is fine. In Europe, it's the other way around. Both takes are flawed.

What harm is done if a child sees a pair of ***** or even intercourse? At most, it instills a screwed view on sexuality as porn tends to suggest roles or that some practices are "normal". Not desirable, but I see far more harm in violent games, brutal news displays and so on.

I'm more than twice your age. I think I was 15 or so when I found a porn video tape in my mother's boyfriend's drawer. I watched it. All I thought was "ewww!" and that was it. I never downloaded porn and such, because I always had a woman in my adult life. :) I see little harm in it, though. I had always been able to talk with my mother about things that concerned me, and she'd always listen and explain. For her generation, I believe she was/is a very open-minded woman, and I never felt like I had to hide stuff or go "*GIGGLE!*" at stuff like porn.

The internet is not a babysitter. It is the parents' responsibility to talk to their children and educate them. Seeing a naked person or a coupling pair doesn't somehow change your personality. Suppression isn't the way (it is impossible anyway). Information, education, and communication are the keys to raising responsible, accountable young individuals.

It is good to see a practical, well thought out response with an added bonus of real experiences added in. Every point you made is accurate and your shift to the real components of change (Information, education, and communication) is superb.

Very well done, sir!

[VastOne]

you don't throw the whole comb of bananas when one is rotten ;)

On the same theme, you wouldn't judge the entire genre of porn on your friends experience?

As a parent, I would be more concerned on spying on my children rather than talking to them and encouraging open communications.

I respect your work on this document and think it is good for those who would need it. I also respect your passion in seeing the need due to your experiences. But I also understand where you are in real world experiences and significant emotional events that shape an individual. You are 15, let's talk again in 5 and then 10 years....