Meet the Mac Mini Server...

[Sporkman]

http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/

[Warpnow]

...Who would buy that?

Its a server, no one should care how it looks, or how nice of a gui it has...

Just spec'd a similar machine on dell's site for $300...

Is this providing three times the utility of a nix server?

[Bachstelze]

Its a server, no one should care how it looks, or how nice of a gui it has...

Who are you to tell people what they should care about? Also, power consumption? Noise? Dimensions?

[3rdalbum]

Apart from the Core 2 Duo, it looks like my mini-ITX-based home server that sits in my other room. Except, my home server has more storage and fewer security holes (it runs Ubuntu).

[Warpnow]

Who are you to tell people what they should care about? Also, power consumption? Noise? Dimensions?

Just as much as I have a write to think people should vote for my politician: every write in the world. If I didn't have an opinion, and express it, then I would not be doing my civic duty as part of a community, just as expressing my political opinion would mean I was failing as a citizen of a democracy.

The spending decisions of others effect all of us. When society begins paying inflated prices, they are wasting the fiscal resources of a receding economy, and contributing to its downfall.

Firms exist to maximize profit. This decision would not maximize profit, and therefore would be downright foolish for a business. Are they free to do it? Yes. Will it result in their success? No. Do I feel sorry for them if they go out of business due to poor spending? No, I actually feel good, the economy becomes stronger when they aren't poorly serving it.

[earthpigg]

instead of buying a $300 server and paying Geek Squad or someone else $700 to set it up, you just pay Apple the whole $1000.

at least i suspect that is the theory...

...i dunno, does anyone here pay anyone $700 for their time?

[jrusso2]

Looks like it would make a nice home server. Easy to use and stylish.

[N4zgu1]

Totally overpriced.

[Firestem4]

For small companies this is a great tradeoff compared to buying a $5,000+ Mac OS X Server that mounts in expensive server racks, with other very expensive equiment.

[Warpnow]

For small companies this is a great tradeoff compared to buying a $5,000+ Mac OS X Server that mounts in expensive server racks, with other very expensive equiment.

For the poor, the corvette is an excellent alternative to the far more expensive Ferrari.

Small businesses usually operating on surprisingly thin (sometimes razor) profit margins. To be honest, though, I'm not sure who the ideal customer is for this device. I suppose individuals.

[Firestem4]

For the poor, the corvette is an excellent alternative to the far more expensive Ferrari.

Small businesses usually operating on surprisingly thin (sometimes razor) profit margins. To be honest, though, I'm not sure who the ideal customer is for this device. I suppose individuals.

If people wish to purchase Mac products then they know they are locked into buying whats available. Mac OS X server provides them the tools they need to create and maintain a collaborative and secure/managed network. The Mac Mini is the cheaper, underpowered alternative to the very expensive Apple Blade Server.

My company has a modestly sized Windows infrastructure but we recently acquired a little more than half a dozen Mac computers (Mini's, iMac's, and MacBooks). We have no more room available in our Data Center for another blade server unfortunately, but the new mac Mini Server came out just in time because we need to run OS X Server (OS) to manage the computers, like the Windows computers are.


And for the record the Mac Mini is an impressive piece of hardware. Its not much larger than a burger from McDonalds and its more efficient than any computer in our Office. Something like this doesn't come cheap.

[Icehuck]

For the poor, the corvette is an excellent alternative to the far more expensive Ferrari.

Small businesses usually operating on surprisingly thin (sometimes razor) profit margins. To be honest, though, I'm not sure who the ideal customer is for this device. I suppose individuals.

You are looking at hardware and not the software package included. It comes with a pretty good set of tools that can get people going. Sure it's $1000 but you know what? Over all it will be less of a hassle for small business it's aimed at. Most small businesses can't afford to have an IT guy come in and professionally setup a server with the features provided.

How much do you think it would cost for a server with mail, calendar, contacts, client management, and other features to be setup?

Heck, it's also UNIX and I don't have to worry about hardware. BONUS!

[Screwdriver0815]

the cool thing is:

if you take Ubuntu Server, you can re-use some old desktop computers and either do the administration on your own (cost: nothing) or you buy support at Canonical (cost: for the base: $ 750) which is cheaper than the Mac-server. So you have the support and its still cheaper.

so who needs a Mac-server then?

[Paqman]

Shrewd move from Apple. Home servers are going to be huge in the next few years.

[hessiess]

Its rather overpowered, I doubt that anyone could use that much computing power and RAM in a home environment.

[Paqman]

And for the record the Mac Mini is an impressive piece of hardware. Its not much larger than a burger from McDonalds and its more efficient than any computer in our Office. Something like this doesn't come cheap.

It doesn't have to be as expensive as Apple make out though. My mini-ITX media centre PC I built has a very similar spec and cost me under £300, instead of £500 for a Mac Mini.

Apple's gear is generally quite good, but is consistently overpriced. They very deliberately position themselves at the luxury end of the PC market.

[maflynn]

Not surprised because people have been buying the mini's and throwing server on them for years. Apple is just taking advantage of an existing market.

Should people be buying mac mini's with the server edition is another matter all together.

[dmizer]

Only one NIC?

[kevin11951]

Only one NIC?

what is the use of two nics outside of a router? I have noticed that every commercial server on the market seems to have two...

[mivo]

Who are you to tell people what they should care about?

Same right as you claim to put him down publicly with your red lettered name? :)

[steev182]

what is the use of two nics outside of a router? I have noticed that every commercial server on the market seems to have two...
Availability, if one switch goes down, the other one may still be up so you aren't as likely to have downtime.

Or you may want to bond or team the NICs to get more bandwidth from and to the server. Not important in a small office/home server, but important in larger corporations with file servers dishing out large files to their users.

[dmizer]

what is the use of two nics outside of a router? I have noticed that every commercial server on the market seems to have two...
In addition to what steev182 said, it's also really handy for securing a wireless subnet. It allows you to create a sanboxed subnet for testing pages and code before rolling it live. It's also handy for keeping LAN traffic off the www server's subnet; things are more secure that way.

The more things you try to do with your server, the more reason you'll see a need for more than one NIC ... especially if you start getting into virtualization. I have three in my server, and I use all three. I could use one more too.

[zekopeko]

It doesn't have to be as expensive as Apple make out though. My mini-ITX media centre PC I built has a very similar spec and cost me under £300, instead of £500 for a Mac Mini.

Apple's gear is generally quite good, but is consistently overpriced. They very deliberately position themselves at the luxury end of the PC market.

Try building your media centre with notebook components and then report how much it costs.
Apple uses notebook components in all of their products. iMac uses notebook components as well as does Mac Mini. Why do you think Apple only now gave the option for quad core iMac's? Maybe because only now did Intel release CPU's for notebooks with more then 2 cores.

[pwnst*r]

In addition to what steev182 said, it's also really handy for securing a wireless subnet. It allows you to create a sanboxed subnet for testing pages and code before rolling it live. It's also handy for keeping LAN traffic off the www server's subnet; things are more secure that way.

The more things you try to do with your server, the more reason you'll see a need for more than one NIC ... especially if you start getting into virtualization. I have three in my server, and I use all three. I could use one more too.

although i see the bennies in dual nics, the people most likely buying this don't care about virtualization or the added bandwidth capabilities. and i don't know about you, but i've had one nic go down on a pc in the last 12 years. not a deal breaker.

[Paqman]

Try building your media centre with notebook components and then report how much it costs.


I don't think you'd gain anything by doing that.

I used a 2.5" hard drive, a mini-ITX board and a low-wattage dual-core desktop chip (Athlon X2 4850e). My machine idles at 35W, and the hardest i've been able to push it is 55W. A quick Google seems to shows figures around 25-40W idle for the Mini, so I don't really see that the Mac hardware has anything over mine.

[3rdalbum]

I'm not really sure who Apple is trying to appeal to with its server OS. It contains a blogging engine and a "podcast producer"; yep, I'm sure their big business customers who bought a rack full of Xserves are going to be thrilled that they can create their own podcast! :-P

Hey, they go down all the time; they need to be rebooted a lot because their CPU power gets completely eaten up by the file sharing service... but if anyone feels the desire to become creative on the company's time, then Apple's got you covered. As long as the server's CPU use isn't at 100%, of course.

[zekopeko]

I don't think you'd gain anything by doing that.

I used a 2.5" hard drive, a mini-ITX board and a low-wattage dual-core desktop chip (Athlon X2 4850e). My machine idles at 35W, and the hardest i've been able to push it is 55W. A quick Google seems to shows figures around 25-40W idle for the Mini, so I don't really see that the Mac hardware has anything over mine.

http://www.apple.com/macmini/environment.html

Mini goes down to 14W when idle. And you gain space by using laptop components.

[Machnikowski]

Mac OS X Server is really easy to set up. For example, Apple provides a GUI config tool for Apache instead of using .conf files, and unlike most Linux/BSDs, setting up a mail server is trivial.

[zekopeko]

I'm not really sure who Apple is trying to appeal to with its server OS. It contains a blogging engine and a "podcast producer"; yep, I'm sure their big business customers who bought a rack full of Xserves are going to be thrilled that they can create their own podcast! :-P

Hey, they go down all the time; they need to be rebooted a lot because their CPU power gets completely eaten up by the file sharing service... but if anyone feels the desire to become creative on the company's time, then Apple's got you covered. As long as the server's CPU use isn't at 100%, of course.

Isn't that then the problem of Samba?

[Paqman]

http://www.apple.com/macmini/environment.html

Mini goes down to 14W when idle. And you gain space by using laptop components.

I saw that stat, but I went with actual measurements posted by users, as I suspect they're more likely to be accurate than Apple's marketing juggernaut.

Size-wise, i'm using a laptop HD and i'd wager that pretty much all the components are the same size as laptop kit anyway. Mini-itx is a ridiculously compact form-factor.

[pookiebear]

This is to go head to head with windows 2008 server small business edition... at WAY less cost and headache. If anyone knows how bad of a product that exchange 07 is to support just getting certificates setup, you would appreciate seeing this product come to market.
A doctors office with 5 support staff could use this to run their email and file storage. Then throw a windows 2003 VM on it with their windows based patient management app. Boom done.
In comparison I have installs that took 10 hours just to get all their smartphones,iphones,blackberries working with an exchange 2007 server...after getting the certificates mounted.
Only problem I see is a tape backup solution. If you could get one of those for cheap to go with it then that would be a real product.

just my thoughts after selling novell and microsoft for the last 20 years.

[ljonesj]

nice point but get the 2tb or just the 1tb time capsule and bame there is ur backup solution

[Firestem4]

Hey, they go down all the time; they need to be rebooted a lot because their CPU power gets completely eaten up by the file sharing service... but if anyone feels the desire to become creative on the company's time, then Apple's got you covered. As long as the server's CPU use isn't at 100%, of course.

In my book unless you use a computer at its full efficiency its a waste lol.

[kixome]

Romeo: in bed asleep while they do dream things true.

Mercutio: Well, I see queen mab have neen with you!

Apple is the biggest lower profit monopoly ever!

[misfitpierce]

Like said, can't say what people will like or want to buy... but... It is overpriced for the hardware to run OS X on a server. Honestly its pretty small too for a server which if a server I would be leaving on all the time and would want a nice big tower you can build yourself with same hardware and bigger case to stay cooler for loads cheaper via Newegg or other sites. So its up to everyone but a Ubuntu server running in nice big cold case is a better deal in my opinion and saves you money :)

[Warpnow]

God forbid anyone needs more space than it offers.

[schauerlich]

God forbid anyone needs more space than it offers.

1) External drives
2) Chances are if you need more than it offers, you shouldn't be using a Mac Mini as your server anwyays.

[Warpnow]

Without an eSata port those externals will be noticably slower.

Maybe, but I'm still not entirely sure who this product is aimed at. I suppose it might be easier to setup than a nix server, though...unlikely if you just follow a webmin guide...webmin has to be the easiest server experience possible. And while I'm not a fan of MS, MS Server 2003 is pretty easy to setup.

I suppose I see the point mentioned above of using it to manage OSX machines...but that still seems a bit odd to me. I also don't get why most of the people above are comparing managed nix/windows servers to an unmanaged OSX server. Both servers will require roughly the same amount of setup, I think. OSXs might end up being easier, but its also quite likely to be less documented.

With products like Turnkey Linux on the market...I really only see this product being sold to the uninformed. A box running Turnkey can do everything it can, for a fraction of the price, and the setup is idiot proof. What this might be good for is for people who've never heard of linux...but that boils down to the uninformed.

*shrugs* I think specialized linux tools could make this product complete useless if you set them next to it on the shelf. Sadly, with linux not in stores...

[schauerlich]

Maybe, but I'm still not entirely sure who this product is aimed at.

It's aimed at small businesses who want a simple way to share files and such, who like OS X, and don't want to pay for an Xserve or a license of Snow Leopard Server separately.

[PhoenixMaster00]

Dont Vegas Casinos use Mac Minis as servers for their security cameras or something? Not sure were i heard that but i thought this info got the ball rolling on a Mac Mini server. Apples just making it easier for people who buy Mac Minis for that purpose.

[LowSky]

Dont Vegas Casinos use Mac Minis as servers for their security cameras or something? Not sure were i heard that but i thought this info got the ball rolling on a Mac Mini server. Apples just making it easier for people who buy Mac Minis for that purpose.

i highly doubt it. Casinos need live continuous feeds for hundred, maybe thousands of cameras. Each casino must have a server farm to support their IT needs, Mac mini's could handle the requirements. i would expects a large central data center to collect information

[PhoenixMaster00]

i highly doubt it. Casinos need live continuous feeds for hundred, maybe thousands of cameras. Each casino must have a server farm to support their IT needs, Mac mini's could handle the requirements. i would expects a large central data center to collect information

Yeah http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Apple-Mac-Mini,6532.html heres a similiar article to what i remember saying it wasnt cameras but they are used in some casino floors.

[cguy]

It's aimed at small businesses who want a simple way to share files and such, who like OS X, and don't want to pay for an Xserve or a license of Snow Leopard Server separately.

I am sure small businesses can do better than choosing a $1000 dollar box for such simple tasks. You may be computer illiterate, but if you own a business and you're not standing on a heap of money you are going to do some research and not jump head first on a Mac.

I'd say that the main targets are the Mac freaks looking for a home server.

EDIT: OH, the link from the last post.
It's a bad choice if you ask me.

[Paqman]

I'd say that the main targets are the Mac freaks looking for a home server.


I agree. I also think they'll sell very well in that (admittedly rather niche) market.

[Cam42]

Hey, about the price: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SVR OS X server with unlimited clients is expensive. So getting a mini+server with unlimited clients for $1k isn't too bad.

EDIT: I'm actually pretty excited about this, and I am not a Mac guy by any means. It'd be nice to have a server the size of a hamburger.

[tom66]

$999 dollars??

A simple Core 2 Duo desktop will work fine.

[mivo]

$999 dollars? A simple Core 2 Duo desktop will work fine.

The energy costs are much higher if you use a desktop, though, so this is about upfront vs. longterm expenses. (I wouldn't pay $999 either, however.)

[Groucho Marxist]

Totally overpriced.

Agreed. In my opinion, the inflated prices from Mac are a tax on consumers who do not thoroughly research what technical specifications they're purchasing in relation to price. :D

[cguy]

Hey, about the price: http://store.apple.com/us/product/MAC_OS_X_SVR OS X server with unlimited clients is expensive. So getting a mini+server with unlimited clients for $1k isn't too bad.

EDIT: I'm actually pretty excited about this, and I am not a Mac guy by any means. It'd be nice to have a server the size of a hamburger.

Come ooon! :) It's a server, you won't stare at it all day long, lol (maybe you'd even hide it away)
WAIT! Where do you get a 6.5'' hamburger from?? I'm coming over!! :D
http://www.apple.com/macmini/server/specs.html

It's pretty, sure, but should prettiness be a selling point for a server? There are comparable size cases out there, you know?


The energy costs are much higher if you use a desktop, though, so this is about upfront vs. longterm expenses. (I wouldn't pay $999 either, however.)
That thingy uses Core2Duos; I guess you can build something similar yourself. Or better: build a dual Atom server :guitar: