I don't understand?!

[Blacklightbulb]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

I'm talking about average people using the computer for everyday tasks. I understand if one dual boots for half a year but after so much time the difference should between the two should be obvious (whether it's Xp or Windows 7 or Vista)!

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

My single core !.8Ghz Ubuntu is lighting compared to that crap.

And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.

[Bachstelze]

Dude, chill out. The computer is not yours, you can't do whatever you want with it, especially when it would give you root access.

[squaregoldfish]

I'm going to side with your tutor on this one. Would you let anyone come to your machine, slap in a USB stick and run who-knows-what software on it? I know I wouldn't.

Yes, it's Linux, and you're no doubt a very responsible user, but there's nothing stopping that bootable USB OS gaining access to the hard drive in the machine and causing all sorts of havoc.

Steve.

[NoaHall]

Dude, chill out. The computer is not yours, you can't do whatever you want with it, especially when it would give you root access.

+1

There are rules, you know. If you think Ubuntu will run better, suggest it to him, say it has the same tools, and if he says no, then no is the final answer.

[Shibblet]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

Yes you do, you just named it. ;)


I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Most people do return to Windows, because they find some little itty-bitty problem with Ubuntu (or any other distro) and blow it up into some insane issue about how they "NEED" that in order to use a PC.

i.e. My ATI Card isn't supported out-of-the-box! I'm not going to download drivers, or fix this... I'll just go back to Windows.


Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Take a different class man. If your "programming" teacher doesn't know Linux, you're in the wrong class. Everybody! Let's program in Microsoft Visual Basic! That's what REAL programmers use.


Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

That's a bummer, for sure, but i'm not allowed to load Ubuntu on my machine at work, so...

[Giant Speck]

How dare you tell me to switch completely to Linux! :mad:

[Mateo]

I use both Windows and Ubuntu (linux). I see benefits of both to be honest. The transparency of Ubuntu is great, i know what everything on my computer is doing (or I could, if I wanted to), and it's great that there are logs when something goes wrong. Windows has it's benefits too. The development tools are just flat-out easier to use. Linux dev tools are bare bones and some people prefer that but not me. And i don't like the fact that there isn't a polished compiled high-level programming language on linux. So I choose to use both. It's great to have choices.

[ve4cib]

Take a different class man. If your "programming" teacher doesn't know Linux, you're in the wrong class. Everybody! Let's program in Microsoft Visual Basic! That's what REAL programmers use.

You'd be surprised how often that ugly beast rears its head in "the industry". C# is definitely more common, but VB just won't go away... :(


@OP:
Anyway, back on-topic, like everyone else, I'm agreeing with your tutor here, for all of the reasons mentioned already. I think you're over-reacting just a touch.

[Shibblet]

How dare you tell me to switch completely to Linux! :mad:

HEY! Didn't you tell me to switch to Tide? :P

[Giant Speck]

HEY! Didn't you tell me to switch to Tide? :P

Uh.........

[Shibblet]

You'd be surprised how often that ugly beast rears its head in "the industry". C# is definitely more common, but VB just won't go away... :(

Says the guy with a fractal as his avatar... :)

I've heard that the Microsoft C Libraries don't function the same way as the GCC ones too. Essentially making Microsoft C, different than any other form of C.


Uh.........

Just joking man. But seriously, try All Free and Clear.

[ve4cib]

The development tools (on Windows) are just flat-out easier to use. Linux dev tools are bare bones and some people prefer that but not me. And i don't like the fact that there isn't a polished compiled high-level programming language on linux. So I choose to use both. It's great to have choices.

After beating my head endlessly against Visual Studio's "helpful features" (usually involving renaming/moving files for me, or inserting the wrong code snippets automagically) I long for something bare-bones that I could use at work sometimes.

As for the "lack of polished compiled languages on Linux" what do you want? C# and VB? Check out Mono. And Java is semi-compiled (about as compiled as anything .NET-related anyway).



Says the guy with a fractal as his avatar... :)

I'll have you know I wrote the program to generate that fractal using Python too!

[ve4cib]

Deleted

[Shibblet]

Deleted

Sweet. Just to clarify, that was meant as a compliment.

And really it's too bad Python isn't more popular in the programming world. I'd love to see books with names like.

Visual P
Introduction to P
P for Dummies
Learn P in 5 easy lessons

[ve4cib]

Sweet. Just to clarify, that was meant as a compliment.

And I took it as such. Thanks! :)

[Firestem4]

Most people do return to Windows, because they find some little itty-bitty problem with Ubuntu (or any other distro) and blow it up into some insane issue about how they "NEED" that in order to use a PC.

i.e. My ATI Card isn't supported out-of-the-box! I'm not going to download drivers, or fix this... I'll just go back to Windows

Hypocrisy at its best =)

"I'm going back to Windows!"
**proceeds to turn on computer, BSOD, restart, download and install +/- 25 drivers, BSOD, Windows update, BSOD, corrupts MBR, Reformat, repeat".

"Windows, so much better than Linux! It all just 'works'".

[hoppipolla]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

I'm talking about average people using the computer for everyday tasks. I understand if one dual boots for half a year but after so much time the difference should between the two should be obvious (whether it's Xp or Windows 7 or Vista)!

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

My single core !.8Ghz Ubuntu is lighting compared to that crap.

And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.

Yeah you are getting a bit carried away man lol - they're only OSs!

I dual boot Ubuntu and XP on here just because sometimes an app won't work in Ubuntu and I'll have to reluctantly (and briefly) switch back, and at some point I may get a craving to play a game or 2 and as we know many of the best ones are Windows-only.

I am not really too perturbed by having Windows sitting on here as well, I barely even notice it besides an extra entry in GRUB at boot-up, it's really just there if you need it.

I was just as keen and passionate about Linux too a few years back (I have been using it about 6 years now), but after a while you just kinda settle into an "I know it's awesome and it will probably get more recognition eventually" mindset! lol :)

[Mateo]

After beating my head endlessly against Visual Studio's "helpful features" (usually involving renaming/moving files for me, or inserting the wrong code snippets automagically) I long for something bare-bones that I could use at work sometimes.

I'm not familiar with those features. The two for me are visual debugging and intellisense. Intellisense is great because it lets you learn about a class that you've never used before very quickly and you don't have to leave the code to learn. I think Eclipse's debugger gets a D or C- at best. I think Netbeans' is a B+ or A-, but it only works good with java and ruby (for me, any ways).


As for the "lack of polished compiled languages on Linux" what do you want? C# and VB? Check out Mono. And Java is semi-compiled (about as compiled as anything .NET-related anyway).

I don't consider mono to be polished. Can Java run as a daemon? If so I'd like to use it for a project idea I have.



I'll have you know I wrote the program to generate that fractal using Python too!

that's pretty cool. i'd like to see the code if you don't mind sharing. if you do, that's cool too.

[Kaizzer]

The computer is not yours, you can't do whatever you want with it, especially when it would give you root access.

+1 to that ..

not my case though .. i installed ubuntu @ my work laptop so i consider myself lucky enough to do it. ...

i think the other main reason to step back (couse thats what it is... ) is laziness of some people to wont try to fix problems when the appear. Ubuntu and Linux in general is an evolving thing and it's been created and recreated by users every second. So, to use linux, at some point .. people must be involved in this process .. at least at the time facing a problem (ie, some hw or sw that they want to use and that doesnt work -out of the box-) they must read forums and investigate for their own..

and that effort, im sorry to say it, is not for everyone.

Yes, Ubuntu is for humans, but for humans that want that change.
Regards.

[doomsword2001]

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.
.

1 need visual studio for university and cannot be run on wine
2 want media monkey to sort your music
3 intel graphics+ubuntu = no games, at least for me. games i want to play doesnt even open. i only managed to play age of empires 2 with smth like 10fps
etc

so in the end keeping windows on ur pc isnt that bad idea
but actualy i stoped playing games and run xp as virtual machine for virtual studio, too lazy to reboot heheh

[NoaHall]

Hypocrisy at its best =)

"I'm going back to Windows!"
**proceeds to turn on computer, BSOD, restart, download and install +/- 25 drivers, BSOD, Windows update, BSOD, corrupts MBR, Reformat, repeat".

"Windows, so much better than Linux! It all just 'works'".

I can safely say that my Windows never corrupts any MBR.
If you're getting that many BSOD's, your system's hardware is corrupted.

[juancarlospaco]

"i'm going back to windows!"
**proceeds to turn on computer, bsod, restart, download and install +/- 25 drivers, bsod, windows update, bsod, corrupts mbr, reformat, repeat".

"windows, so much better than linux! It all just 'works'".

epic
:)

[Rainstride]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

I'm talking about average people using the computer for everyday tasks. I understand if one dual boots for half a year but after so much time the difference should between the two should be obvious (whether it's Xp or Windows 7 or Vista)!

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

My single core !.8Ghz Ubuntu is lighting compared to that crap.


its was a tutor, they are responsible while they are there. if you messed something up its on them also. so its understandable.




And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.
I like netbeans. besides sun makes both java and netbeans. so what is the problem? or is it just preference?

[Firestem4]

I can safely say that my Windows never corrupts any MBR.
If you're getting that many BSOD's, your system's hardware is corrupted.

For the most part I was exaggerating

[The Real Dave]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

I'm talking about average people using the computer for everyday tasks. I understand if one dual boots for half a year but after so much time the difference should between the two should be obvious (whether it's Xp or Windows 7 or Vista)!

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

My single core !.8Ghz Ubuntu is lighting compared to that crap.

And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.

Me and the vast majority (barring my sister), have switched completely to Linux, bar my main rig which still has XP for gaming and iTunes only.

As to the guy not letting you boot from you USB, I agree with what's being said, I mean like, for all he knows, you could be booting something like BackTrack, the moment you get that booted, any Windows installs pretty much come to their knees. If I were him I probably wouldn't let you, not unless I knew you well. When your in Windows, he knows that he has, ultimately, control over you, and that you can't wreak havoc.. If it was an Ubuntu computer, and a Windows Live USB, would you feel the same?

[shazbut]

that's pretty cool. i'd like to see the code if you don't mind sharing. if you do, that's cool too.

OT, but there's plenty of info and algorithms here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandelbrot_set
I managed to get it working in QBasic (anyone remeber that?) under DOS. Was taking Fractal Geometry at Uni at the time, very interesting subject, not overly useful to me though.

[gmjs]

Would you let anyone come to your machine, slap in a USB stick and run who-knows-what software on it? I know I wouldn't.

...there's nothing stopping that bootable USB OS gaining access to the hard drive...

Steve.

Unfortunately probably very true. I admit to having a problem with the 'you can't do that because you're not allowed to' in 'controlled' environments. If a user 'shouldn't' be doing something (esp. something as trivial as this) then the system shouldn't allow it.

Frequently overlooked by system administrators is the importance of ensuring BIOS boot settings are well configured and password protected--it's as important as setting an admin/root password on your machine. If they don't want you booting from a USB device, then the BIOS should be configured so you can't!

*Rant over* ;)

[dragos240]

Well. I've switched ;)

[earthpigg]

Well. I've switched ;)

me too.

OP: in the future, perhaps consider doing some research before signing up for the class?

for a programming class, an operating system should be regarded as merely a tool. we can argue about which hammer and screwdriver is best, but ultimately a teacher can dictate which hammer and screwdriver his students get to use for his assignments.

[fela]

Why can't everyone develop their own operating system so there's no fanboys anymore...

I mean yeah I like Linux and don't use Windows as for me it's a useless piece of **** but some people find windows easier to use or whatever...so just let them be. I agree that Linux is vastly superior in many ways to Windows but trying to get everyone to follow your way of doing things is a pointless path to go down. Just use what works for you, and if nothing works for you make it yourself.

[Bachstelze]

Unfortunately probably very true. I admit to having a problem with the 'you can't do that because you're not allowed to' in 'controlled' environments. If a user 'shouldn't' be doing something (esp. something as trivial as this) then the system shouldn't allow it.

Frequently overlooked by system administrators is the importance of ensuring BIOS boot settings are well configured and password protected--it's as important as setting an admin/root password on your machine. If they don't want you booting from a USB device, then the BIOS should be configured so you can't!

*Rant over* ;)

I disagree. People should stay out of my living room because they're not invited, not because I have a shotgun. Only burglars enter somewhere just because the door is not locked. And if you do, you shouldn't be surprised to get the cops called on you. ;)

[Shibblet]

I disagree. People should stay out of my living room because they're not invited, not because I have a shotgun. Only burglars enter somewhere just because the door is not locked. And if you do, you shouldn't be surprised to get the cops called on you. ;)

I assume you are talking about a computer that's not yours, like the OP.

But some people get the feeling that their computer is keeping them out of the living room for no good reason.

[Pixel]

I don't understand what keeps most of you Linux users from switching completely to Linux (apart from the gamers and special purpose application users who are forced to stick with Windows).

I'm talking about average people using the computer for everyday tasks. I understand if one dual boots for half a year but after so much time the difference should between the two should be obvious (whether it's Xp or Windows 7 or Vista)!

I think most of you are afraid you'll return back to windows, but it's generally not the case if you have enough experience.

Just me pondering about after todays trauma. I'm in a programming class and while practicals the tutor refused to let me boot from a Linux USB.

Imagine this. Two years full on Ubuntu (never in any place have I used a windows machine or other OS for the matter). Then I'm using Windows XP SP2 on the worst dual core Intel crap on the market which takes ages to open Microsoft Word!!

My single core !.8Ghz Ubuntu is lighting compared to that crap.

And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.

Some people simply prefer other operating systems and use their linux flavor of choice for other things. Just because something is more efficient at doing something than something else, doesn't mean people like using it.

[dj-toonz]

I myself have switched 100% over to Linux for every day stuff, Yes I do still have a virtual-box install of windows on the desktop, just for Itunes to sync the Iphone, other wise I wouldn't even bother, I like linux more then windows & I use Linux on my works laptop as I work for myself Hehehehe :popcorn:

[doomsword2001]

We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.

btw why dont u use windows+netbeans on workshops, save netbeansprojects folder on a usb and open it on ubuntu+netbeans at home :confused:

[jespdj]

And the cherry on the cake. We where using JAVA with NETBEANS.
I understand that you think that's the cherry on the cake. Using Java and NetBeans makes up the horror of using Windows, because Java and NetBeans are great. I use them everyday at work.

Java and NetBeans work just as great on Ubuntu, Mac OS X or Solaris as they do on Windows.

[Blacklightbulb]

btw why dont u use windows+netbeans on workshops, save netbeansprojects folder on a usb and open it on ubuntu+netbeans at home :confused:

And who told you I don't?:confused:

[Niko Johnson]

I recommend tide :)

[doomsword2001]

not a big deal then 2-3 hours workshops a week. you can miss 2 and do the work at home. 1 hour per week windows :D. at least thats what i do

[PuddingKnife]

I refuse to switch completely to Linux [-X

[hoppipolla]

I refuse to switch completely to Linux [-X

I actually used to use Linux exclusively for about... maybe 4 or 5 years, but then after just under a year back on Winblows I've now decided to dual boot for the convenience of having it there if I need it. Sometime I might just use a VM, if XP on the other partition packs up or something.

[Tristam Green]

Take a different class man. If your "programming" teacher doesn't know Linux, you're in the wrong class. Everybody! Let's program in Microsoft Visual Basic! That's what REAL programmers use.

Bad advice at it's finest.

@OP:

It's been said. The computer is not yours. You are bound by the terms and conditions of use for the computer set forth by your educational institution, which includes a clause about not running any unauthorized software.

Guess what?

If your instructor says "no, don't plug that USB drive into that computer", then that USB is deemed to have unauthorized software.

[undecim]

I don't want to start a flame, but I will be frank: Anyone who thinks that everyone should switch from Windows to Ubuntu, simply because they believe that Ubuntu is technically superior is hypocrite.

The philosophy behind Ubuntu and FOSS is that the user should choose how the hardware that they own is used.

I use Linux exclusively because it's my choice. Yes, Microsoft does take your freedom when you install their operating system, but ultimately, the user makes the choice to trade the freedom to run their computer their way.

[Tibuda]

I don't want to start a flame, but I will be frank: Anyone who thinks that everyone should switch from Windows to Ubuntu, simply because they believe that Ubuntu is technically superior is hypocrite.

The philosophy behind Ubuntu and FOSS is that the user should choose how the hardware that they own is used.

I use Linux exclusively because it's my choice. Yes, Microsoft does take your freedom when you install their operating system, but ultimately, the user makes the choice to trade the freedom to run their computer their way.

quoted for truth

[johnboy1313]

i only use linux at home, but im still stuck using windows at work, why? Garth Algar said it best
"change, we fear change"

:?::shock::?:

[Shibblet]

Originally Posted by Shibblet
Take a different class man. If your "programming" teacher doesn't know Linux, you're in the wrong class.
That's given.


Originally Posted by Shibblet
Everybody! Let's program in Microsoft Visual Basic! That's what REAL programmers use.
That's sarcasm.


Bad advice at it's finest.
That's pathetic.


It's been said. The computer is not yours. You are bound by the terms and conditions of use for the computer set forth by your educational institution, which includes a clause about not running any unauthorized software.
That's agreeable.


Guess what?

If your instructor says "no, don't plug that USB drive into that computer", then that USB is deemed to have unauthorized software.
That's superfluous.

[Frak]

I don't want to start a flame, but I will be frank: Anyone who thinks that everyone should switch from Windows to Ubuntu, simply because they believe that Ubuntu is technically superior is hypocrite.

The philosophy behind Ubuntu and FOSS is that the user should choose how the hardware that they own is used.

I use Linux exclusively because it's my choice. Yes, Microsoft does take your freedom when you install their operating system, but ultimately, the user makes the choice to trade the freedom to run their computer their way.
^^this

[jhb1608]

Uh.........

.................huh?