Mandriva CEO disses Ubuntu

[newbie2]

http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/53911/index.html
http://www.fsfe.org/en/fellows/incinerator/weblog/comment_mandriva_ceo_disses_ubuntu
:rolleyes:

[Krigl]

Where does this guy live? And does anybody know about someone with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch" for hire in his neighbourhood?



Edit; to remove inappropriate material Hey, that "inapropriate material was a Pulp Fiction quote"! Don't be so trigger-happy, please.

[asimon]

As long as launchpad stays propritary and the dependence of Ubuntu on launchpad increased it's not unreasonable to think that Canonical has plans to "start monetizing the installed base."
There are many ways to get money from the installed base, selling CDs is not the only one.

In the comments I see far more bashing and FUD then in the interview. Actually I can see François Bancilhon's points very well and they are not complitely unreasonable. Anyway there is absolutely no reason to resort to such comments if you disagree.

And BTW: This "so-called Open Source company" (Mandriva) is more open then Canonical (launchpad, hint hint).

[BoyOfDestiny]

As long as launchpad stays propritary and the dependence of Ubuntu on launchpad increased it's not unreasonable to think that Canonical has plans to "start monetizing the installed base."
There are many ways to get money from the installed base, selling CDs is not the only one.

In the comments I see far more bashing and FUD then in the interview. Actually I can see François Bancilhon's points very well and they are not complitely unreasonable. Anyway there is absolutely no reason to resort to such comments if you disagree.

And BTW: This "so-called Open Source company" (Mandriva) is more open then Canonical (launchpad, hint hint).

Well I haven't used "mandrake" since version 9 or 10 (as I knew it), due to rpms not working (although that did teach me to compile... including dependencies) and the "holding" of releases for non-paying users.

That is hardly community/open.

Launchpad is currently closed source, but that does not mean it will stay that way (i.e. beneath a steel sky, which is in the repos).

As for Francois comments, besides the social contract, gpl'ed code, and the ubuntu foundation, I doubt this can "destroy" other "community based" distros.

It seems "anyone" could build upon it and benefit.

I smell envy. In a way it's good since it means Ubuntu is going places.

[newuser111]

i was never impressed with mandrake when i used it, a lot of things did not work out of the box, even a USB keyboard didn't work

I think the owner of mandrake is just jealous because mandrake used to be recommended as a beginners desktop distro, before ubuntu came around and ubuntu is now a very popular distro whereas mandrake/mandriva has faded into obscurity

[Lord Illidan]

i was never impressed with mandrake when i used it, a lot of things did not work out of the box, even a USB keyboard didn't work

I think the owner of mandrake is just jealous because mandrake used to be recommended as a beginners desktop distro, before ubuntu came around and ubuntu is now a very popular distro whereas mandrake/mandriva has faded into obscurity

Mandrake/Mandriva never worked with my soundcard (Genius Soundmaker Live 4.1), while Ubuntu detected it out of the box. Ubuntu has apt-get, etc.
I think it is jealousy..

[TechSonic]

Mandriva is more of a baby distro then Ubuntu. I'm now seeing that Ubuntu is like the bigger brother now.

I want more compitition with Linux Distribution developers. If everyone is trying to beat the other guy to the best distro spot, then it gets everyone building a bigger and better OS that will finally put Microsoft out of business.

Now I'm not bashing Microsoft. But maybe they can learn from Linux and improve their existing products with it's ideas. If not, then they should go out of business and burn to death of a thousand screams.

[tseliot]

I think Francois spoke out of (personal) frustration and this is human (and understandable). And of course Shuttleworth's wallet is being perceived as a threat by him. I think Mandriva developers are under a lot of pressure also because of the existence of distros which are free and have more monetary resources. And of course being rich doesn't mean (necessarly) being evil.

IMHO the GNU/Linux mentality could never lead to only 1 distro and the death of all the others. There will always be many distros as the GNU/Linux users have different needs (and hardware).

Ubuntu couldn't become like Microsoft and neither could Novell or Red Hat. We are too antidogmatic to accept passively the decision taken by the developers of a distro.

GNU/Linux is about the Freedom of choice. For example I would never buy a distro or use only 1 distro while another user might want a boxed version of an OS so as not to spend his/her time tweaking his/her system.

[psychicdragon]

Why don't you change the link to the actual interview (http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/Main/interview-francois0602). That blog entry is extremely reactionary, and not well informed.

I don't think he actually said anything that could really be called a "dissing." He was asked about Ubuntu and provided an honest answer. There's no need to blow this out of proportion.

[Krigl]

psychicdragon: Thanks for the link.


Well, it's not dissing but still it sounds like "sour grapes", understandable (who wouldn't like a billionaire as a project's backup) but sour anyway. If the guy is true about his typical day then Tux help him.

Ehm, brand name as a Mandriva's strength? I'm Linux newbie and a lamer - how some gurus feel about it? I've heard a lot about Mandrake (in one line with RedHat, SuSE, Gentoo and Slackware) when I used Wins but Mandriva? When they changed the name, it took me ages to realize that the Mandriva appearing in titles isn't some variety, fork nor even mockery. Do you think the Mandrake's fame (and strength of name, cause Mandrake sounded really cool) shall prevail?

Edit; to remove inappropriate material Same here, I even had to edit it more, cause the first edit changed the meaning to something worse. Oh geez.

[prizrak]

Mark is gonna take over the world!!! He told me that himself, while I was on this cool Acid trip ;)
Francois is looking at Ubuntu from a purely business POV hence his thoughts on the subject. Ubuntu gets huge funding and doesn't have to listen to any customers/shareholders so of course it could take over Mandriva's market share and become the best linux around :)

[Sirin]

THE INTERVIEW CAN BE FOUND HERE. (http://club.mandriva.com/xwiki/bin/Main/interview-francois0602)

[imagine]

Three years ago I got a lot of calls about Knoppix, two years ago, I got a lot of calls about Gentoo and so no. Right now, the new "in thing" is Ubuntu. [..] One possible worse case scenario is that Ubuntu's plan is to use money to put all other community-based distros out of businessIf Ubuntu is just some hype in his opinion, then how is it going to kill off other distributions? Or doesn't he actually believe that it's a hype and just tried to insult Ubuntu?

And how exactly is Shuttleworths money putting *community-based* distributions out of *business*? Maybe it puts Mandrivas "premium club" out of business, but certainly no community-based distribution.


one person, with a quasi infinite check book is behind the operation [...] Of course, at Mandriva we do not have an infinite check book, so we need to work hard, we pay employee salaries with revenues generated by sales, we have to watch our figures, we have to keep happy our users, the community, our clients, our employees and our shareholders.Aha, so if you have "infinite money" (whatever that means) you do not need to work hard on your distribution and you do not need to keep your users happy? Heck, now I know why so many people are using Ubuntu: Because Mark Shuttleworth got much money!



Seriously I think he raises some valid points, but the way he does that is not nice.

[handy]

What's the problem?

Why do we have to polarise?

[Brunellus]

What's the problem?

Why do we have to polarise?
the problem is that Mandriva sees itself as competing for a slice of a very small pie--desktop Linux users.

[handy]

the problem is that Mandriva sees itself as competing for a slice of a very small pie--desktop Linux users.

So, Mandriva is threatened by Ubuntu's strong financial backing!

& Debian officianados are peeved due to the same thing?

Which may allow the following questions into this thread?

Are they (the debs) irritated that Ubuntu get's updated so much quicker?

Do the Debian's perceive that Ubuntu is taking advantage of their code?

Is there more to the story?

I am not asking these questions to be inflamatory. I am asking because I don't know? :confused:

You have probably gathered that I prefer not to draw lines, saying: Are you for me or against me?!

If these questions are inapropriate to this thread I apologise. I won't ask them in a new thread. I don't really like where they may go with more publicity, if you know what I mean?

I do not want to fuel division.

[K.Mandla]

In your opinion, is the Ubuntu distribution a threat to Mandriva? Do you think Ubuntu's special circumstances make competition with it too hard?

We watch very carefully any new comer in the field and any new products. Three years ago I got a lot of calls about Knoppix, two years ago, I got a lot of calls about Gentoo and so no. Right now, the new "in thing" is Ubuntu. Of course, the situation is a bit different in this case: one person, with a quasi infinite check book is behind the operation. So they can give the system away and spend whatever is needed. Is this the right way for the open source eco-system? I find it hard to believe. One possible worse case scenario is that Ubuntu's plan is to use money to put all other community-based distros out of business and then start monetizing the installed base. If this were the case, they are doing the easy part: increasing their market share by giving away the product. We have found that the second part is a tad more difficult.

Of course, at Mandriva we do not have an infinite check book, so we need to work hard, we pay employee salaries with revenues generated by sales, we have to watch our figures, we have to keep happy our users, the community, our clients, our employees and our shareholders. It's a harder life, but I believe it is also a healthy way of looking at things. We work very hard, we can't pay high salaries, we have to make a living out of our revenue. By doing so, we are building a strong and healthy company based on a proven business model.
It does sound a bit like sour grapes to me. From my perspective, he is jealous of Shuttleworth's/Ubuntu's ability to give away a top-notch product, when he still has a bottom line to meet and a business to run.

However, planting the idea that Ubuntu might start charging for the product is FUD to me. (I seem to be encountering a lot of FUD lately.) I'm not aware of any plans to build up a market share, then bait-and-switch to a pay-per use. Somebody, please, correct me if I'm wrong on that. ... I want to know now.

But either way ... this is infighting. I see no point in distros squabbling over who gets the largest crumbs off Microsoft's table. And to see a business bemoaning their lost profits because someone else wants to popularize the concept behind Linux -- open software -- well, that just makes me less likely to use Mandrake or its derivatives.

[darrenrxm]

Mark Shuttleworth was heard to reply in response to this.

"I'm going to f---ing bury that guy, I have done it before, and I will do it again," quotes Shuttleworth. "I'm going to f---ing kill Mandriva."

Then Shuttleworth picked up his chair and hurled it across his office.


This was a joke :) I think most you of guys will get it.

[Derek Djons]

For me this is an cleary example of again... money centric companies. These companies don't always speak the truth and since they are dependent on money they will also not admit flaws and problems that easily.

I never see free distro bashing eachother. Why should they, it's not a race in order to fill up your personal CEO Swiss Bank Account.

[kenweill]

So what?
They have to do something better to attract more users to their distro.
All users are free to choose. And I choose the best. Ubuntu is the best distro for me.

I like Ubuntu's philosophy. And their public commitment to their users that states that Ubuntu will always be free of charge, and there is no extra fee for the "enterprise edition", then there will be no problem at all.

As long as its free, as long as its open source, then its fine. NO problem at all.

I think they are just jealous.

[Protostar]

I read up on Mark Shuttleworth and Canonical, because I had no idea who they were. Based on that, I agree that François is just jealous. I'd be pissed too if another company was besting mine. Instead of whining, he should be trying to improve the profitability of his company but thats sort of hard to do considering where he is.

[jeremy]

Sorry, but I don't know what diss means (apart from being the name of a town in Norfolk), can anyone tell me? Thank you.

[weasel fierce]

It means to make rude remarks or say that something is worse than you

[K.Mandla]

It means to make rude remarks or say that something is worse than you
I think originally it was short for "disrespect." :rolleyes:

[mstlyevil]

I take these comments with a grain of salt. Ubuntu is being praised by other CEO's for it's accomplishments. The CEO's of both Mepis and Linspire had good things to say about Ubuntu. Mepis is considering building on it. Ubuntu does not take anything away from these companies but it helps them to produce a better product for their customers.