Steering clear of WINE

[deancasino]

Since moving to Ubuntu I often finding myself fighting the urge to install WINE. The main reasons I moved to Ubuntu was so I didn't need to pirate programs anymore and that Windows is terribly flawed with it's "exe's" and ALWAYS lets me down.

Am I alone here in thinking installing WINE is an easy way to avoid learning about a new OS and that some people are trying to make their Ubuntu like Windows?

[HermanAB]

Hmm, if you think that WINE is an easy way to run a program, then you clearly haven't actually used WINE yet...
;)

[edin9]

Hmm, if you think that WINE is an easy way to run a program, then you clearly haven't actually used WINE yet...
;)

lol

[Bachstelze]

Am I alone here in thinking installing WINE is an easy way to avoid learning about a new OS and that some people are trying to make their Ubuntu like Windows?

I hope so. How is it being lazy when you use WINE to install a Windows program you need and for which there is no alternative?

[dominiquec]

Wine may not be perfect, but in some cases, it's better than Windows.

I may sound like I'm kidding but I'm not (entirely): I've had some old games run perfectly on Wine that wouldn't even start up on Windows XP. My own experience. (http://ubuntuliving.blogspot.com/2009/09/future-of-windows-islinux.html)

[forrestcupp]

Since moving to Ubuntu I often finding myself fighting the urge to install WINE. The main reasons I moved to Ubuntu was so I didn't need to pirate programs anymore and that Windows is terribly flawed with it's "exe's" and ALWAYS lets me down.

Am I alone here in thinking installing WINE is an easy way to avoid learning about a new OS and that some people are trying to make their Ubuntu like Windows?


I hope so. How is it being lazy when you use WINE to install a Windows program you need and for which there is no alternative?

You both have legitimate opinions. If you're trying to change your morals and stop pirating software, that's a noble reason to not use wine. If you don't have that problem, and you want to run legal Windows software for which there is no acceptable alternative, it's a good reason to use wine.

What everyone needs to realize is that different people have different needs, and it's not right to be judgmental of other people because they don't conform to what your needs are. Everyone should be able to just use what they need to use.

[Bachstelze]

What everyone needs to realize is that different people have different needs

It's not about "needs" here. What I fail to understand is how using WINE, for whatever reason, makes you a lazy person that wants to avoid learning about a new OS. That's total nonsense! You can't judge someone's willingness to learn about an OS by the programs he uses.

[RiceMonster]

I try to avoid using wine because it's not really reliable, and it's not as nice as running native apps. Now, I'm not going to blame the wine team for that, because they've got a heck of a job to do and they're doing well at it. Some programs do run well and that's pretty amazing that they were able to get that far. However, if there's no native alternative, or the native version just doesn't cut it, of course it makes sense to use wine.

[Frak]

I don't use Wine, because right when you think a program runs perfectly, you get an About box and the entire things crashes.

What I'm saying is, it's not very reliable for day-to-day use for me.

[deancasino]

Wow! Some people are definitely taking me the wrong way. I am simply getting some conversation going to see if anyone else shares my view, and if the first post is read thoroughly, it will be seen the word "lazy" is not mentioned nor is it implied.

I like that the WINE team has taken the time to make use of Ubuntu easier, I personally think it's brilliant. But on that note, there are A LOT of free alternative software packages available for Ubuntu and that running Windows born programs (With the exception of games) is simply an easy alternative to taking the time to look for a Linux based application.

[Bigtime_Scrub]

I don't use Wine either because it is not reliable. The first thing I try to do is find an alternative, if that doesn't work I run Windows inside of virtualBox, as a last resort I dual boot.

I think dual boot may be ideal for you. You still have Windows running natively with whatever you want installed and Linux is right next door, a reboot away for learning.

[ve4cib]

Day-to-day reliability of programs under Wine in my experience depends more in the program itself and less on Wine. Wine runs some programs amazingly well (to the point where they actually feel as fast and responsive as native applications), and it fails utterly at running others.

I might argue that frequent Wine users are probably less lazy than people who avoid using Wine all together; having to find work-arounds, small hacks, and the like to force your Windows program to behave properly 100% of the time is not always easy. So you have to be determined to do it, and be willing to spend some time and effort on it. Making a native Linux application work is generally much easier, since they should -- by definition -- work as intended.

Ultimately though laziness (or lack thereof) depends more on the person and less on what software they choose to use.

[deancasino]

I think dual boot may be ideal for you. You still have Windows running natively with whatever you want installed and Linux is right next door, a reboot away for learning.


Absolutely, and I do, trying to get Steam to run in WINE is hell lol

[Rainstride]

Wow! Some people are definitely taking me the wrong way. I am simply getting some conversation going to see if anyone else shares my view, and if the first post is read thoroughly, it will be seen the word "lazy" is not mentioned nor is it implied.

I like that the WINE team has taken the time to make use of Ubuntu easier, I personally think it's brilliant. But on that note, there are A LOT of free alternative software packages available for Ubuntu and that running Windows born programs (With the exception of games) is simply an easy alternative to taking the time to look for a Linux based application.

well if they can get there program to work perfectly, good for them. its still a hell of a step up from windows. you get ubuntu security and stability and your windows programs(if you get them to run:)).

personally I only use wine for games:).

[edin9]

Wow! Some people are definitely taking me the wrong way. I am simply getting some conversation going to see if anyone else shares my view, and if the first post is read thoroughly, it will be seen the word "lazy" is not mentioned nor is it implied.

I like that the WINE team has taken the time to make use of Ubuntu easier, I personally think it's brilliant. But on that note, there are A LOT of free alternative software packages available for Ubuntu and that running Windows born programs (With the exception of games) is simply an easy alternative to taking the time to look for a Linux based application.

I use WINE only for games. The biggest problem I have is that they don't include some patches that can make it far better. Compiling with patches is sometimes the only way to get somethings working fully.

[starcannon]

Since moving to Ubuntu I often finding myself fighting the urge to install WINE. The main reasons I moved to Ubuntu was so I didn't need to pirate programs anymore and that Windows is terribly flawed with it's "exe's" and ALWAYS lets me down.

Am I alone here in thinking installing WINE is an easy way to avoid learning about a new OS and that some people are trying to make their Ubuntu like Windows?

There are many programs that are considered everyday essentials that Wine makes available to Linux; not the least of which is Microsoft Office, a program that is vital to many people working on an office/home office environment. There is nothing wrong with using Wine to get the job done, doing so does not diminish the Linux experience; indeed, it only adds to it, one gets all the advantages of Linux, and many of the software applications available to Windows. Don't look at the equation as "either or", try very much to look at the equation as "this and". I myself use Wine with MS Office 2007, Dreamweaver 8, and Flash 8; and if needed I run applications on MS Windows XP on my Linux Desktop using Virtual Box.

The goal is to get the job done, not to be exclusive; actually the goal is quite the opposite, one should strive to be inclusive.

GL and HF

[Khakilang]

I install just in case I need to run certain software. Currently its not doing anything. But its good to have.

[Exodist]

hmm, if you think that wine is an easy way to run a program, then you clearly haven't actually used wine yet...
;)

+1


If your looking to avoid WINE you should also avoid Sun VirtualBox. :-D

[Rrasyrogenees]

i use wine for the sole purpose of playing games... i play World of Warcraft mostly and wine does it great and yes it crashes almost as much as windows but i am thinking that is due to WoW being on windows platform in the first place... :D

i like all the programs that ubuntu offers and i like the fact that ubuntu IS more like windows in its gui and such. but i also have more options to use my computer as a real computer (instead of a toy for email, internet surfing and such things only). having 64-bit makes me want more too as i know that i can run my 8gb of ram without stopping at 4gb (or 3.2gb in windows).

i think that as linux systems become more windows-like without all the problems (viruses, crashes, etc) that windows has, then it would be more available to all computer "players" (since it is a toy to most). but remember also that since windows is full of architectural flaws then any linux distro system can NEVER be exactly "like" windows. and that IS good news... :D

[starcannon]

Hmm, if you think that WINE is an easy way to run a program, then you clearly haven't actually used WINE yet...
;)
I've used wine on many occasions; for me it has been problem and hassle free. I let it do its thing, and it just works.

Edit:
I do not count intensive 3D gaming or CAD applications in my review. Those genres of software often take some extended configuration.

[Regenweald]

I'm actually using the unstable branch right now to burn a dvd using ImgBurn. It has a small issue detecting the dvd drive (i need to eject it before i launch IngBurn so that wine and imgburn can take control of it) but beyond that, for me, wine is a great tool. I use it for Magic ISO, ImgBurn and utorrent. All work flawlessly.

[wilee-nilee]

Day-to-day reliability of programs under Wine in my experience depends more in the program itself and less on Wine. Wine runs some programs amazingly well (to the point where they actually feel as fast and responsive as native applications), and it fails utterly at running others.

I might argue that frequent Wine users are probably less lazy than people who avoid using Wine all together; having to find work-arounds, small hacks, and the like to force your Windows program to behave properly 100% of the time is not always easy. So you have to be determined to do it, and be willing to spend some time and effort on it. Making a native Linux application work is generally much easier, since they should -- by definition -- work as intended.

Ultimately though laziness (or lack thereof) depends more on the person and less on what software they choose to use.

I have no comments on wine I have never used it but I like the Fractal Mandelbrot avatar.

[misfitpierce]

It's good for those actually needing to run windows apps which is quite some ppl for work etc. I dont use it and dont need any windows apps. Its not a bad idea and I get what your getting at but thats not really the case. Ppl still choose to learn about ubuntu and how to use it but use Ubuntu just to run few windows apps that they really want to run without having to stick with windows install.

[Hated On Mostly]

It's not about "needs" here. What I fail to understand is how using WINE, for whatever reason, makes you a lazy person that wants to avoid learning about a new OS. That's total nonsense! You can't judge someone's willingness to learn about an OS by the programs he uses.


I get what he is saying. For example, instead of learning about and installing Audacious you use WINE and keep using WinAMP. Instead of installing Easytag you install Tag&Rename. Instead of installing soundKonverter you install dbpowerAMP. Instead of installing AcetoneISO you install ImgBurn.

Basically he means...

Instead of installing and learning to use [insert Linux software alternative here] you install [insert Windows application you used before switching to Ubuntu].

It can be a very easy pattern to get into and will definitely slow down and make more difficult the learning of a new operating system.

[murderslastcrow]

I personally use WINE with a few work-specific applications there are no suitable alternatives for (due to file formats). They're advanced 3d modelling and design programs, and they work tremendously well with WINE.

And that's all I have in Wine, other than the occasional Windows-only game that crops up (a few MMOs).

To be honest, there is an abundance of high quality software for Linux, including commercial stuff. I think it can only get better as time goes on.

Not only that, but also Mark Shuttleworth doesn't think it's good to advertise Ubuntu as another way to run Windows programs (neither do I), the WINE project deserves as much support as they can get. They're our secret weapon! :3 Just think of where things could go if they got more financial and community support, huh?

Wouldn't it be a good thing if WINE were a perfect implementation that could then be ported to other architectures and the such? Either way, I'm glad I can enjoy the best of my old programs as well as this gorgeous world of Linux.

[gerbil.paste.sandwiches]

I get what he is saying. For example, instead of learning about and installing Audacious you use WINE and keep using WinAMP. Instead of installing Easytag you install Tag&Rename. Instead of installing soundKonverter you install dbpowerAMP. Instead of installing AcetoneISO you install ImgBurn.

Basically he means...

Instead of installing and learning to use [insert Linux software alternative here] you install [insert Windows application you used before switching to Ubuntu].

It can be a very easy pattern to get into and will definitely slow down and make more difficult the learning of a new operating system.

Wutwut? Acetone is an image manipulator, ImgBurn is disc burning. See the difference?

[whitefort]

When I was first starting Linux I was told 'if you need any Windows programs, you can run them in WINE.'

I now think this is one of the worst things to tell any prospective Linux user. In my case, it led to me cursing Linux as useless and going back to Windows (for a while anyway, until I saw the light!)

I worked through 2 shelves of Windows programs. After endless tinkering, some still didn't work in Wine at all. Most 'worked' in such a flawed way that they just weren't usable (Yet on the Wine site, this seemed good enough to get them 'gold' status!)

Obviously, some people love WINE and find it indispensable - but I can't help wondering how many others are turned off Linux by the myth that all their Windows programs will work.

These days, since I occasionally have to review Windows software, I keep a small XP partition, and for my totally indispensable stuff that has no Linux equivalent I use virtualbox.

The promise that 'you can run all your windows software in WINE' has turned me into a bitter, twisted, confirmed Wine-hater! :wink:

[coolbrook]

Gotta love WINE when it does what Linux won't on its own.

[koshatnik]

I try to avoid using wine because it's not really reliable, and it's not as nice as running native apps. Now, I'm not going to blame the wine team for that, because they've got a heck of a job to do and they're doing well at it. Some programs do run well and that's pretty amazing that they were able to get that far. However, if there's no native alternative, or the native version just doesn't cut it, of course it makes sense to use wine.

I think the fact that linux has wine is indicative of the lack of support for big commercial apps from the major software vendors. It's strange because desktop linux install base is nearly on a par/exceeds/is the same as (delete as applicable, depending on source) OS X, and yet Adobe, for example, makes its entire suite of apps available for Apple but not Linux.

I know there are big money shenanighans going on in the background, but I think Linux's lack of a unified body to push the linux agenda for linux desktop users, severely cripples commercial app development.

And I don't want to hear that its not economically viable for Adobe et al to produce apps for Linux becaue the install base for the OS is too small - OSX market share is tiny.

Suck on that, Adobe.

[t0p]

Yeah, it would be nice if more apps were made truly cross-platform. But that isn't going to happen as long as Linux has such a small reported market share and Microsoft has the industry's testicles in its hands.

Wine is good, in that users thinking about the switch to Ubuntu are less likely to be held back by a perceived need for a Windows app. Unfortunately, Wine doesn't work as well as I could wish. I have need of a Windows app to do stuff with a USB-connected device, and Wine can't detect the device. I'm currently thinking about installing a virtual machine to do this. Which is a bloody pain (having to download an XP .iso image from somewhere, trying to validate it, blah blah). In an ideal world, the app would come in a Linux flavour. Damn this stupid world!

[longtom]

Wine is fine - for tinkering. I have not experienced yet that it runs any program I tried to install reliable or acceptable.

I also heard that if you don't have a Linux equivalent, just use Wine.
Well, it doesn't work that way.

So I have steered clear of Wine to such an extent that I do not install it any more. I do have a dual boot and a Virtual XP, which works most of the time. I could actually do away with the dual boot - but it's nice to have that up the sleeve.

In short: I would not consider wine as a reliable option for running any windows program.

[hoppipolla]

I tend to give it a go when I have a Windows program that just isn't available for Lin that I really want to use... to be honest it rarely works for me though ._.

I end up just dual booting lol

[jaxxstorm]

Wine is the first thing I install, but only because its the only place to run Spotify. As soon as they bring out a native Linux client, I'm there

[Hated On Mostly]

Wutwut? Acetone is an image manipulator, ImgBurn is disc burning. See the difference?

OK made a mistake there, but easily fixed. Insert Brasero, k3b, xfburn, Nero Linux, among several others for ImgBurn replacements.

[ve4cib]

I get what he is saying. For example, instead of learning about and installing Audacious you use WINE and keep using WinAMP. Instead of installing Easytag you install Tag&Rename. Instead of installing soundKonverter you install dbpowerAMP. Instead of installing AcetoneISO you install ImgBurn.

Basically he means...

Instead of installing and learning to use [insert Linux software alternative here] you install [insert Windows application you used before switching to Ubuntu].

It can be a very easy pattern to get into and will definitely slow down and make more difficult the learning of a new operating system.

Applications != Operating System.

And by your logic my tendency to use Windows versions of Linux applications makes me a lazy Windows user. (Under Windows at work I use Pidgin, EasyTag, Firefox, Geany, VLC, SMplayer, and even EmelFM (via Cygwin))

Choice of applications has nothing to do with not wanting to learn a new operating system, or laziness. It has to do with comfort. And if the applications you already know and love work properly (or can be made to work properly) under your OS of choice why bother using something different?

[Nerd King]

WINE is an amazing project. I like it because it gives me the best of both worlds, and yes I find it very stable for the apps I use. Remember, an OS is just something to run your apps. Linux + Wine gives me the widest selection, and they run well. Sorted.

[Hated On Mostly]

Applications != Operating System.

And by your logic my tendency to use Windows versions of Linux applications makes me a lazy Windows user. (Under Windows at work I use Pidgin, EasyTag, Firefox, Geany, VLC, SMplayer, and even EmelFM (via Cygwin))

Choice of applications has nothing to do with not wanting to learn a new operating system, or laziness. It has to do with comfort. And if the applications you already know and love work properly (or can be made to work properly) under your OS of choice why bother using something different?


By my logic the only point I was trying to make was the point I was trying to make. I have no idea where someone being a lazy Windows user comes into play or why someone is lazy because they use Windows...but OK.

WINE creating comfort is exactly my point. Comfort usually impedes change. Nobody is making character judgments here. Whether one is lazy or not or whether one wants to learn or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The applications that are available for Linux that replace what you use on Windows may be better applications and you may enjoy them more or equally while enjoying the benefits of Linux versus Windows, but using WINE the first time one tries out Linux may not allow the person to discover that there are just as easy to use, easy to love, even better programs available.

Another example. I can use and setup any microwave up very easily. However if the two microwaves I had in the past 10 years had not broken down I would have never bothered to learn how to use the microwave I currently have. The microwave I have now is much better than the previous two, but I would have never realized that unless I allowed myself to experience change.

In the microwave example, the previous microwaves were broken, thus I was forced to experience change. If you start using WINE when you start using Linux for the first time you may never get to experience a brand new and possibly equally or more enjoyable piece of software, because of the lack of necessity of change. Not installing and using WINE when first starting out may be an artificial force of change unlike a broken microwave, but it creates the same impulse to try something different that one may still enjoy.

By the way, I know of someone who tried to install Thunderbird through WINE. They didn't realize that Thunderbird is available in the repository because they were told to install and use WINE from the get go to run Windows programs in Linux. Never bothered to learn how to use repositories or install software even though the person was quite capable. The person spent an amazing amount of time learning WINE and trying to get it to run Thunderbird, instead of spending less time learning how to use Linux. They are on the right track now, pretty much expert knowledge, but got sidetracked by trying out WINE too early in the transition process.






P.S. - You are just a lazy Windows user.

[ve4cib]

By my logic the only point I was trying to make was the point I was trying to make. I have no idea where someone being a lazy Windows user comes into play or why someone is lazy because they use Windows...but OK.

This thread started off equating Wine usage to laziness, so forgive me for reading more into your previous post than you may have intended.



WINE creating comfort is exactly my point. Comfort usually impedes change. Nobody is making character judgments here. Whether one is lazy or not or whether one wants to learn or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.

The applications that are available for Linux that replace what you use on Windows may be better applications and you may enjoy them more or equally while enjoying the benefits of Linux versus Windows, but using WINE the first time one tries out Linux may not allow the person to discover that there are just as easy to use, easy to love, even better programs available.

Comfort can also promote gradual change, making the transition easier in the end. You don't teach someone to swim by throwing them from dry land into a 30m deep lake with SCUBA gear; you start off slowly moving into shallow water, and then getting deeper and deeper.

Using a new OS can be like learning to swim for some people. Throwing themselves in 100% just doesn't work for them. Some people can do that, but others simply can't. That's where having a flexible comfort-creating zone helps.

Start off getting used to the basics of Linux; file-browsing, UI-tweaking, etc... but stick with a familiar set of Windows applications initially. Once the user is comfortable with that they're perfectly free to try other native applications if they want. Or if they prefer using uTorrent, MS Office, Foobar2k, and Notepad++ under Wine they're free to do that too. They'll learn a lot about Wine and the terminal, if nothing else.

Ultimately people should be comfortable with their system. If that means using Wine as a safety-blanket for applications then so be it. Likewise if that means throwing yourself 100% into Linux and using OSS replacements for every Windows/Mac app you've ever used, then that works too. It's your system; do what you want with it.

[ticopelp]

I've only ever used Wine for games or some Windows-only piece of software that I need for a job. I always go for the native Linux application whenever possible.

If I ever really needed Windows for something major that I used all the time, I'd install it in Virtualbox. And that hasn't happened so far. :)

[Simian Man]

And I don't want to hear that its not economically viable for Adobe et al to produce apps for Linux becaue the install base for the OS is too small - OSX market share is tiny.

Yes but Apple users are already used to wasting their money on overpriced shininess :).

[NCLI]

I think the fact that linux has wine is indicative of the lack of support for big commercial apps from the major software vendors. It's strange because desktop linux install base is nearly on a par/exceeds/is the same as (delete as applicable, depending on source) OS X, and yet Adobe, for example, makes its entire suite of apps available for Apple but not Linux.

I know there are big money shenanighans going on in the background, but I think Linux's lack of a unified body to push the linux agenda for linux desktop users, severely cripples commercial app development.

And I don't want to hear that its not economically viable for Adobe et al to produce apps for Linux becaue the install base for the OS is too small - OSX market share is tiny.

Suck on that, Adobe.
Even the most positive estimates put Apple's desktop market share at twice of Linux's, the most negative at 20 times ;)

[Kazade]

IMO Wine is an awesome project, actually, probably one of the most important projects for making desktop Linux mainstream. What's the number one reason that people dual-boot Windows? Games.

Big games producers aren't going to start producing games for Linux before the market share hits 20% or more, and Linux won't see mainstream adoption if it doesn't play the games that people buy. Wine breaks the cycle.

I know that Wine isn't there yet. I'd say, if you picked 3 random games, 1 will work perfectly, 1 partially, and 1 not at all. But there are massive improvements going on in Wine, particularly in DX support.

The other day I broke out a Half-life box set that my brother bought me a long time ago. I installed HL, Blue Shift and Opposing Force, installed all the updates, and played the games without an issue! That is just awesome.

[jwbrase]

What I mostly use Wine for is running Windows freeware that's too obscure to ever have caught the attention of anyone who might have been interested in porting it to Linux. There's one game, though, for which the Windows version is the one I have on my machine, even though the Linux version is available in the repositories. I brought across from my parents' home system to my laptop because it was on the same thumb drive as I had the other programs on.

I'm also using my /.wine/drive_c directory as a place for Dosbox games.

[deancasino]

I get what he is saying. For example, instead of learning about and installing Audacious you use WINE and keep using WinAMP. Instead of installing Easytag you install Tag&Rename. Instead of installing soundKonverter you install dbpowerAMP. Instead of installing AcetoneISO you install ImgBurn.

Basically he means...

Instead of installing and learning to use [insert Linux software alternative here] you install [insert Windows application you used before switching to Ubuntu].

It can be a very easy pattern to get into and will definitely slow down and make more difficult the learning of a new operating system.

Thank you! At least someone gets what I am saying lol

[deancasino]

WINE creating comfort is exactly my point. Comfort usually impedes change. Nobody is making character judgments here. Whether one is lazy or not or whether one wants to learn or not has nothing to do with the point I was making.
Everyone's getting really nasty about it huh?


P.S. - You are just a lazy Windows user.

I lol'd

[handy]

I don't think it is lazy to use Wine.

I use it for a couple of things that I need because they do the job best; both are legally free as well.

I also use Codeweavers (the prime supporters of Wine) Crossover, to run Guild Wars on OS X, because the ATi drivers are still (unfortunately) better under OS X, than they are under Linux.

Using Wine will have a negligible effect on a person learning Linux, apart from the fact that its not a race anyway. Is it?

[Hated On Mostly]

Everyone's getting really nasty about it huh?



I lol'd


I'm glad someone gets my sense of humour without using an emoticon :wink: Always best to not take oneself too seriously...


I actually like WINE too, but I agree with deancasino in his thought that WINE can be a hindrance to a new Ubuntu/Linux user's ability to fully utilize Ubuntu. I actually hope the future of operating systems and software continues to move towards more built-in, automatic, easy-to-use, usage of virtualization and compatibility layer technology.

There really is no technical reason (and never has been for the most part) why every piece of software for one consumer OS cannot run on another OS. Sharing is caring...and more profitable for the people who can only think in corporate terms.

[koshatnik]

Even the most positive estimates put Apple's desktop market share at twice of Linux's, the most negative at 20 times ;)

There is no reliable measurement of linux uptake in desktops. Estimates mean nothing. Apples install base is tiny, but generates enough ARPU* for people like Adobe to invest the resource to make products for it.

I suspect the same is true of Linux, and that other factors behind the scenes keep this from happening.

*ARPU - Average Revenue Per User. There is a vanishing point where it no longer becomes viable for a company to produce a product once a full cost recovery has been calcuated on the developement, marketing and production of product, but the thresholds for this are set artificially high to appease shareholders, who will always baulk at what are perceived to be low ARPU targets on product lines.

For example:

PS CS4 has an ARPU of .70 on windows (price v install base v projected sales v actual V production costs)
on OSX it might be .50 (lower install base but still profitable)
on linux if might be .30 (small, but still profitable)

The vanishing point might be .20 A shareholder might look at that and think, "not much profit from a linux version, bin it". It's above the vanishing point, but not seen as profitable enough.

ARPU for linux cannot be calculated because all figures would be estimates, and such unusable. Both MS and Apple can supply sales figures which can accurately be used to calculate projected sales and product viability. This lack of firm install numbers for linux might be hampering big corporation software support.

[Regenweald]

Please don't confuse learning to use and operating system and learning to use software. It makes no sense to say that wine could somehow impede someone understanding how to use Ubuntu. Ubuntu fundamentally works differently than windows and the mere face that the individual *installed* wine is experience with the repository system.

IMO the only difference between a windows app and a linux one is 'tools>>options' vs 'edit>>preferences' everything else is standard. For those claiming instability, i have to believe them because this is a matter of personal experience. In my first linux forays, K3B and Brasero failed me miserably so i tried ImgBurn in wine which has served me perfectly always. utorrent also gives me better speed and less of a memory footprint than deluge. Now how am i lazy ?