Ballmer finally confesses: Vista sucks

[MoebusNet]

http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/152476

[earthpigg]

Ballmer:

"I'd be hopeful that we see a bit more rapid pick-up - particularly people who are upgrading the software without touching the hardware - than maybe we have in years past."

quite an "F you guys!" to Dell, HP, etc., huh?

[frup]

When ever a new windows is released, the previous version was useless.

[NoaHall]

I'm going to be honest, Vista wasn't that bad for me. You just need to know what to turn off.

[HNS-I]

I'm so glad to have skipped ME and vista. Everybody knew vista sucked and bought it anyway, it puzzled me. I'm also waiting with win7, until I'm going to play new generation games.

[amitabhishek]

I'm going to be honest, Vista wasn't that bad for me. You just need to know what to turn off.

LOL! You pay and then you turn off stuff. :)

[Swagman]

I'm so glad to have skipped ME and vista. Everybody knew vista sucked and bought it anyway, it puzzled me. I'm also waiting with win7, until I'm going to play new generation games.


I hazard a pretty good guess that most people DIDN'T buy vista. They got it because it was pre-installed on the new machine they bought.

[NoaHall]

LOL! You pay and then you turn off stuff. :)

You install Ubuntu, then you remove the apps you don't want ;)

[matthew.ball]

I honestly never had a problem with Vista, it did everything I needed, and it did it very well (I would go as far as to say I preferred Vista to XP).

[Sand & Mercury]

He didn't really say it sucked, he essentially surmised that the feedback and common opinion of the system was very poor and it still sports a negative reputation because of it.

To be fair, I think Vista in its current state is pretty good -- a little top heavy for my tastes, but all the design decisions they did make were good... security was in urgent need of attention, and the aesthetic value and many little usability quirks were improved. What was bad at the time of its release was its stability and performance (particularly for file copying), which as of SP2 have been significantly improved. In all the few years I used Vista, post SP1 I never saw a BSOD, no matter what I threw at it.

There's little doubt that Vista's launch was, putting it nicely, a complete and utter ****-storm, but these days its only real defect is its reputation.

[hobo14]

You install Ubuntu, then you remove the apps you don't want ;)

You don't pay though...

[xpod]

You install Ubuntu, then you remove the apps you don't want ;)

If your going to do that then your probably better just starting with a mini ISO and then adding what you need.Thats how i normally start on this particular laptop, even though it`s capable of running a full installation.
I only need a web browser and access to the rest of our network from here so thats all i install.....well, thats how i start.I still always end up with a whole heap of junk a month or two down the road.:)

[mudguts]

I wonder what he's going to say about Windows 7 ?
Here's my experience with it: link (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juEsXC8ZshY)

[marchwarden]

But in Ballmer's view, this is all good news. With PC sales down up to 15 percent from their high, Microsoft is hoping that Windows 7's release a mere two weeks from now will unleash a torrent of demand for computers and, of course, all of Microsoft's software products as well.

Does Ballmer really think that the release of Windows 7 is going to stimulate demand for hardware? Is he aware that we are in recession and people are being very thrifty, business especially?

In my opinion, any increased demand in hardware in the next couple of months is going to be seasonal (i.e. for Christmas). Is this wishful thinking on the part of Ballmer, or there a strategy to dispute that any increased demand is down to seasonality, that the increase is a consequence of the release of Windows 7?

[Simian Man]

To be fair, I think Vista in its current state is pretty good -- a little top heavy for my tastes, but all the design decisions they did make were good... security was in urgent need of attention, and the aesthetic value and many little usability quirks were improved. What was bad at the time of its release was its stability and performance (particularly for file copying), which as of SP2 have been significantly improved. In all the few years I used Vista, post SP1 I never saw a BSOD, no matter what I threw at it.

There's little doubt that Vista's launch was, putting it nicely, a complete and utter ****-storm, but these days its only real defect is its reputation.

I agree. Now that the driver situation has been improved and hardware has caught up to the requirements, they could honestly re-release vista with a new name and it would be lauded as a success.

[kpholmes]

I honestly never had a problem with Vista, it did everything I needed, and it did it very well (I would go as far as to say I preferred Vista to XP).

i agree

[NoaHall]

I agree. Now that the driver situation has been improved and hardware has caught up to the requirements, they could honestly re-release vista with a new name and it would be lauded as a success.

Windows 7 = Vista SP2 + weird bar.

[sydbat]

I agree. Now that the driver situation has been improved and hardware has caught up to the requirements, they could honestly re-release vista with a new name and it would be lauded as a success.Isn't that exactly what they are doing?

[Regenweald]

Ballmer:


quite an "F you guys!" to Dell, HP, etc., huh?

Yep, that is EXACTLY what made me start searching for a linux OS. I get my shiney new Dell PC and in the first week I get about 5 Blue Screens, and I quote "Kernel Data INPAGE Error" it ocurrs when the machine is under strain. Mind you, startup, 2 mins later - BS. Explanation: Dell took a great XP machine and just turned it into a Vista abomination. It simply could not handle Aero.

So even though, a new OS release should not exponentially increase hardware requirements. It was still poor customer service on Dell's part.

[forrestcupp]

What a biased load of garbage! He never once said that "Vista sucks." What he said was that Vista's sales suck.

I've never had one problem with Vista. The only thing Vista couldn't do for me was play some of my games from the mid to late 90's. Ubuntu can't do that either.

I don't care if people hate Vista, but putting words in Ballmer's mouth isn't any better than people spreading false rumors about Linux's incapabilities.

[-grubby]

Windows 7 = Vista SP2 + weird bar.

+ Performance improvements + Stability improvements + Bugfixes + a cup of awesome

[NoaHall]

Vista + SP2 has all the things you mentioned. Except the cup of awesome. Only the games make it awesome.

[Capt. Blackwood]

90% of the people i've talked to here at this college have stated that Vista sucks rocks over XP.


Why do i feel happy i didn't upgrade to vista.

[Bachstelze]

I'm disappointed. Vista was very good, and Ballmer knows it. But since the media said Vista sucked...

[NoaHall]

Well, before SP1 it DID suck. After, nope. No problems. I don't know why people bitched about it so much. Change isn't always a bad thing.

[Bachstelze]

Well, before SP1 it DID suck.

Before SP1, XP sucked, too. ;) But people tend to have very short-termed memory.

[NoaHall]

Meh, XP always sucked. The update system was a huge mess.

[chucky chuckaluck]

"Ballmer finally confesses: Vista sucks"

how does one come to this conclusion from reading what he actually said?

[Bachstelze]

Meh, XP always sucked. The update system was a huge mess.

XP was good in its time, but I'd choose Vista over it any day.

[JDShu]

Does Ballmer really think that the release of Windows 7 is going to stimulate demand for hardware? Is he aware that we are in recession and people are being very thrifty, business especially?

In my opinion, any increased demand in hardware in the next couple of months is going to be seasonal (i.e. for Christmas). Is this wishful thinking on the part of Ballmer, or there a strategy to dispute that any increased demand is down to seasonality, that the increase is a consequence of the release of Windows 7?

Perhaps people will buy new hardware out of necessity and thus stimulate demand to bring us out of recession :D

[Capt. Blackwood]

Perhaps people will buy new hardware out of necessity and thus stimulate demand to bring us out of recession :D


^^^ I never looked at it like that.

[estyles]

I have to agree that Vista isn't so bad post SP2. I have a laptop whose wireless refuses to work under Ubuntu/Mint, so I've just used it under Vista, mostly for websurfing when I don't want to go upstairs to the computer room - and there've been a few times when I've been happy to have a machine running Windows (mostly for games, including flash games that still suck on Ubuntu).

No problems with Vista - I think the big uproar comes from people who "heard" that Vista is terrible and just perpetuate it, along with the handful of people who have compatibility problems and insist that it's a widespread OS problem, rather than them just having broken or non-compliant parts - much like a lot of the people who complain about Linux.

However, I do find their new commercials amusing... "With Windows 7 - the OS is great again," implies to me that it wasn't great before. So why are they advertising that Vista sucked? It seems stupid.

[NoaHall]

However, I do find their new commercials amusing... "With Windows 7 - the OS is great again," implies to me that it wasn't great before. So why are they advertising that Vista sucked? It seems stupid.

To please the masses. The uninformed, horrible masses.

[Bachstelze]

However, I do find their new commercials amusing... "With Windows 7 - the OS is great again," implies to me that it wasn't great before. So why are they advertising that Vista sucked? It seems stupid.

That's a common marketing technique. When you release a new product, flaws magically appear in the old one. Microsoft didn't invent it. :p

[marchwarden]

Perhaps people will buy new hardware out of necessity and thus stimulate demand to bring us out of recession :D

Unfortunately computer hardware is a rather small part of aggregate demand and supply. Wishful thinking though.

[CharlesA]

Maybe I am alone in that I've not had any problems with Vista since I started using it. Then again, I started using it after SP1.. so.. yeah...

I've been using Windows7 since Beta and it's been rock solid for me.

*shrugs* Vista works and W7 works, so pick yer poison.

[Frak]

Ehem...

Microsoft is a company. They will say whatever you want to hear to make themselves seem more friendly and human.

I'm not surprised at all. This is normal for a large majority of companies. Even if they find their product to be a success, they have no problem trashing themselves to further their own agenda.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

But Windows 7 seems like a Vista clone to me. I'm not complaining. I had Vista 64 running on a very powerful machine, so it was always fast and responsive for me. I just think it's funny that all the same people that hated on Vista (largely due to the press) are now loving windows 7 (again largely due to the fact that it is getting good press). I've used both and didn't find that much of a difference.

If anything I would blame crappy laptop makers for turning on aero on laptops with weak integrated graphics chips. The first time I used vista was on my girlfriend's crappy HP laptop and I hated it, but once I tried it on my laptop, I loved it.

[Bachstelze]

But Windows 7 seems like a Vista clone to me.

"Clone" is a bit strong, but it's definitely just Vista with some impprovements. Nothing revolutionary.

[kellemes]

Never seriously used Vista, do currently review win7 beta and I'm very impressed.
If win7 is no more then Vista + some improvements, I guess Vista wasn't that bad as they say.

[Crunchy the Headcrab]

Never seriously used Vista, do currently review win7 beta and I'm very impressed.
If win7 is no more then Vista + some improvements, I guess Vista wasn't that bad as they say.
Not the current iteration anyway. Granted, I didn't jump to vista until about the time of service pack 2, but I expect early adoption pains with any new OS.

[estyles]

Ehem...

Microsoft is a company. They will say whatever you want to hear to make themselves seem more friendly and human.


I would change that to "they will say whatever they can to make themselves look good and to cause you to give them your money." But saying that Vista sucked doesn't make them look good at all. To me, saying "with Windows 7, the OS is great again" tells me two things:

1) Microsoft is saying that Vista may not have been that great. Since we can rely on the usual amount of marketing BS, that pretty much means that Vista sucked horribly, and it may have in fact committed genocide or wiped out life as we know it.

2) Microsoft is saying that Windows 7 is great compared to Vista. With the marketing filter turned on, this means that Windows 7 might be a tiny bit better, or else it might be exactly the same as Vista.

So, from a consumer standpoint, I'm left wondering if Windows 7 is just slightly better than crap, or if it might give SARS to my entire family...

I dunno, maybe other people interpret commercials differently... It still seems like exceedingly stupid marketing to me.

Not that I think Vista was all that terrible - as I said above, I think it's fine, and it *does* look like Win 7 is a decent OS, probably a good improvement on Vista... But what MS is telling me in its own advertising would make me extremely hesitant to buy it.

[starcannon]

Seven will be a much greater release success because of MS's willingness to do the wide open beta that they did. Previously, go back as far as win95, MS suffered the same problems that all Operating Systems suffer, release day problems. Once a thing goes into the wild, its anyone's guess as too how it will turn out, but generally, it is less than spectacular.

Look out our own favorite Operating System; each and every release, the boards are filled with throngs of dissatisfied users who's upgrade experience did not work out as expected; and, MS's problems aren't so different, XP was a POS when it first released, hell you had to load in what? a half dozen floppies just to get the drivers loaded so that you could then run the CD(if indeed drivers existed for your hardware)? Like Vista, XP was a POS until it received a Service Pack, and indeed XP was still pretty crappy until SP2. Vista had opening day issues, and again, after a Service Pack, it seemed to stabilize, and finally start running pretty decent for most of its users.

I expect Seven, even with the beta program, is going to have its fair share of Opening Day problems, but I expect they will be much less dramatic than they have been in the past.

That said, I still don't like MS very much; but for reasons that are not soley(sic) technological. I don't like the way they do business, that's really my problem with MS products in a nutshell. I know how to lock down a MS Windows OS so that it is fairly stable and secure, but I don't know how to get MS to play nice with its endusers, and if I am to be an enduser, then that is a vital problem for me.

Anyway, people may rabble about MS bugs and other issues, but watch what happens in 2 weeks when our own beloved OS releases a new version. There will be the usual wailing and gnashing of teeth, it's just the way things work.

GL and HF

[Bachstelze]

I would change that to "they will say whatever they can to make themselves look good and to cause you to give them your money." But saying that Vista sucked doesn't make them look good at all. To me, saying "with Windows 7, the OS is great again" tells me two things:

1) Microsoft is saying that Vista may not have been that great. Since we can rely on the usual amount of marketing BS, that pretty much means that Vista sucked horribly, and it may have in fact committed genocide or wiped out life as we know it.

2) Microsoft is saying that Windows 7 is great compared to Vista. With the marketing filter turned on, this means that Windows 7 might be a tiny bit better, or else it might be exactly the same as Vista.

So, from a consumer standpoint, I'm left wondering if Windows 7 is just slightly better than crap, or if it might give SARS to my entire family...

I dunno, maybe other people interpret commercials differently... It still seems like exceedingly stupid marketing to me.

Not that I think Vista was all that terrible - as I said above, I think it's fine, and it *does* look like Win 7 is a decent OS, probably a good improvement on Vista... But what MS is telling me in its own advertising would make me extremely hesitant to buy it.

Your vision of marketing is very basic.

[Frak]

I would change that to "they will say whatever they can to make themselves look good and to cause you to give them your money." But saying that Vista sucked doesn't make them look good at all. To me, saying "with Windows 7, the OS is great again" tells me two things:

1) Microsoft is saying that Vista may not have been that great. Since we can rely on the usual amount of marketing BS, that pretty much means that Vista sucked horribly, and it may have in fact committed genocide or wiped out life as we know it.

2) Microsoft is saying that Windows 7 is great compared to Vista. With the marketing filter turned on, this means that Windows 7 might be a tiny bit better, or else it might be exactly the same as Vista.

So, from a consumer standpoint, I'm left wondering if Windows 7 is just slightly better than crap, or if it might give SARS to my entire family...

I dunno, maybe other people interpret commercials differently... It still seems like exceedingly stupid marketing to me.

Not that I think Vista was all that terrible - as I said above, I think it's fine, and it *does* look like Win 7 is a decent OS, probably a good improvement on Vista... But what MS is telling me in its own advertising would make me extremely hesitant to buy it.
They aren't making scientific comparisons of one another.

It's like a guy sitting next to you saying "I realized that what I made wasn't that great. Look, I made a new one, I listened to what everybody had to say, and I think it's even better than before. I'm sorry that I had to make you go through my previous product, but you've had a real influence on me and I've made it better."

Translates to:

"I've made hundreds of millions of dollars on that product. All the media wanted to do was trash it, some of it real, but most of it formed of very biased opinions. Now, I think it was a success, but being the sheep you are, you think it's a failure. I'll play on that. I'll tell you that I totally agree with what you think, even though you're pulling all the facts from these writers that simply trash things for advertising revenue, repeating it like the sheep you are. I will make you think that I have morals. I will show sympathy for your "pain". I will hide the fact that all I care about is profits, and make you think that I plan for the greater good. I will cater to the wants of the professionals, make them happy, and then let them speak for me. You will repeat what they say, like the sheep you are. You will believe me and raise my profit margin.

Go, customer, and buy my product."

Am I bashing Microsoft, no I'm not. Microsoft does a better job at advertising than any other OS developer that I can think of. I'm excluding Apple because they're pushing more than just an OS. They're pushing a whole computer.

[estyles]

Your vision of marketing is very basic.

What the hell is that supposed to mean?

[Frak]

What the hell is that supposed to mean?
You don't understand many of the elements that describe common marketing tactics.

[estyles]

You don't understand many of the elements that describe common marketing tactics.

All I posted was my interpretation of this commercial AS A CONSUMER. I.e. I'm watching this on TV, and this is how it makes me feel about their product.

I don't see how this warrants an ad hominem attack from either of you.

[KiwiNZ]

This is yet another circular for want of a better term discussion.

Wake me when Windows 21 is out and I will join the same discussion :(

[Frak]

All I posted was my interpretation of this commercial AS A CONSUMER. I.e. I'm watching this on TV, and this is how it makes me feel about their product.

I don't see how this warrants an ad hominem attack from either of you.
Well, then you're looking at it with a somewhat humorous view, which is good, but there are a lot of people who will take it seriously. "Microsoft admits their mistake, oh, isn't that nice, I should support them for it."

[handy]

You install Ubuntu, then you remove the apps you don't want ;)

Or you install Arch & only install the app's you want to start with. :)

Sorry, I couldn't resist...

[NoaHall]

I know there are other ways of doing it, mini.iso, Arch etc, but regardless, I expect most people still install then remove.

[madhi19]

Or you install Arch & only install the app's you want to start with. :)

Sorry, I couldn't resist...
Well you can always build your own distro with suse studio but what sado masochist would want to! Or worse for the real maniac an old school gentoo install! But really who want to?

[handy]

Or LFS. :)](*,)

[forrestcupp]

90% of the people i've talked to here at this college have stated that Vista sucks rocks over XP.


Why do i feel happy i didn't upgrade to vista.



No problems with Vista - I think the big uproar comes from people who "heard" that Vista is terrible and just perpetuate it, along with the handful of people who have compatibility problems and insist that it's a widespread OS problem, rather than them just having broken or non-compliant parts - much like a lot of the people who complain about Linux.

The 2nd post is the answer to the first. 90% of those 90% of the people just heard Vista sucks and they believed it because they heard it.

I've had many, many more problems, compatibility issues, and hardware issues out of Linux than I ever did out of Vista, even pre-SP1. It never sucked, and now it's just as solid as XP ever was.

[hoppipolla]

I really am so happy with Linux again now though, it's so nice to be free of commercial OSs and all the rubbish that comes with them! xD

You don't feel at the mercy of Microsoft or Apple the whole time :)

[Bachstelze]

You don't feel at the mercy of Microsoft or Apple the whole time :)

I don't feel at the mercy of Microsoft and Apple when I use their stuff. If I don't like it anymore, I'll stop using it. In a way, it's more like they are at my mercy, they'll be the ones losing a customer.

[hoppipolla]

I don't feel at the mercy of Microsoft and Apple when I use their stuff. If I don't like it anymore, I'll stop using it. In a way, it's more like they are at my mercy, they'll be the ones losing a customer.

well, true enough :)

[ukripper]

XP SP3 ain't bad as I do need to use for development purposes but vista indeed is a blind bull in the ring.