windows refund from acer in the uk

[xir_]

First off gotta say that acer have been very good about this with only a few messups.

I contacted acer for a refund on my windows (after they didn't reply to me contacting them over a month ago). They agreed without argument to my entitlement for the refund.

But here is the catch, they are insisting on a £30 checking fee to make sure im not lying about not having windows on the PC and they are refusing to tell me how much they value vista home premium is worth.

They are insisting on wiping my pc regardless of the state it arrives in.

Has anyone else got a windows refund from acer in the UK without paying this wipe fee?


Once again im stressing that acer have been good to me with this. but i could use some advice about this wipe fee.

lesson learnt? Don't buy acer if you are going to look for a windows refund.

[koshatnik]

Sounds like a crock to me. Wipe fee, thats hilarious.

If you have not accepted the EULA for Windows, YOU'VE NOT ACCEPTED IT. End of story. Acer are being dicks. Refudn is due.

Tell them to stuff the £30, and demand your refund.

[Bachstelze]

Actually, don't buy Acer, period.

[xir_]

Actually, don't buy Acer, period.

I have to say the laptop i bought is really top quality build (even though mine is one of the recalled models :().

They have been really good other than this wipe fee, i'm going to carry on pushing them to wave the wipe fee, but apparently the are not breaking consumer law (according to trading standards).

[ade234uk]

These companies will eventually have the book thrown at them. Its becoming a joke.

1) You want a laptop, but you cannot buy it without Windows so you pay for licence. Where is the choice?

2) You want a refund because you don't want Windows, but then they want 30GBP to wipe it off, even though you paid for the licence in the first place.

3) The operating system does not work properly. But you only find out after you accepted the licence.
Normally you would be able to take the product back to the shop you bought it from and get a refund, not in Microsoft's case.

4) You want a set of restore disks, because they don't supply them with the laptop. The inbuilt software fails 3 time (in my case). I ask for a set of restore disks and they want 49GBP, yet I already paid for a licence. However in the US the same set of restore disks costs about 15 Dollars.

5) You buy Vista on its own, yet you want to sell it. Your not happy with it. Your not allowed to sell it, or are you?

[Bachstelze]

These companies will eventually have the book thrown at them. Its becoming a joke.

You want a laptop, but you cannot buy it without Windows so you pay for licence.

You want a refund because you don't want Windows, but then they want 30GBP to wipe it off, even though you paid for the licence in the first place.
The operating is faulty.

You want a set of restore disks, because they don't supply them with the laptop. The inbuilt software fails 3 time (in my case). I ask for a set of restore disks and they want 49GBP, yet I already paid for a licence.

You buy Vista on its own, yet you want to sell it. Your not allowed to sell it.

Do you want an egg shell to wear on your head? I have really neat ones for sale as low as 49GBP.

[xir_]

I was considering putting an official complaint into the EU about it.


These companies will eventually have the book thrown at them. Its becoming a joke.

1) You want a laptop, but you cannot buy it without Windows so you pay for licence. Where is the choice?

2) You want a refund because you don't want Windows, but then they want 30GBP to wipe it off, even though you paid for the licence in the first place.

3) The operating system does not work properly. But you only find out after you accepted the licence.
Normally you would be able to take the product back to the shop you bought it from and get a refund, not in Microsoft's case.

4) You want a set of restore disks, because they don't supply them with the laptop. The inbuilt software fails 3 time (in my case). I ask for a set of restore disks and they want 49GBP, yet I already paid for a licence. However in the US the same set of restore disks costs about 15 Dollars.

5) You buy Vista on its own, yet you want to sell it. Your not happy with it. Your not allowed to sell it.

[HNS-I]

If you asked me, I'd say you've bought the thing with windows included, I do not see why you should be able to return windows for a refund.

[NoaHall]

These companies will eventually have the book thrown at them. It's becoming a joke.

1) You want a laptop, but you cannot buy it without Windows so you pay for the licence. Where is the choice?

2) You want a refund because you don't want Windows, but they want 30GBP to wipe it off, even though you paid for the licence in the first place.

3) The operating system does not work properly, but you only find out after you accepted the licence.
Normally you would be able to take the product back to the shop you bought it from and get a refund, not in Microsoft's case.

4) You want a set of restore disks, because they don't supply them with the laptop. The inbuilt software fails 3 times (in my case). I ask for a set of restore disks and they want 49GBP, yet I already paid for a licence. However in the US the same set of restore disks costs about 15 dollars.

5) You buy Vista on its own, yet you want to sell it. You're not happy with it. You're not allowed to sell it.


Now you can submit that, if you want. Although you're much more likely to get accepted with a much longer statement.

[prshah]

Deja Vu: Acer Windows Refund (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1286824) Maybe the two of you can complain to the EU together.

[bernied]

But here is the catch, they are insisting on a £30 checking fee to make sure im not lying about not having windows on the PC and they are refusing to tell me how much they value vista home premium is worth.
I'm guessing that they will value it at £30

[koshatnik]

I'm guessing that they will value it at £30

Exactly.

I'd write back to Acer saying something like, refund my copy of Vista otherwise this will go as a complaint to the EU.

Have a nice day.

[xir_]

If you asked me, I'd say you've bought the thing with windows included, I do not see why you should be able to return windows for a refund.

thats not what is says when you boot up a computer for the first time, i refused to abide by their terms and conditions for the use of windows, so therefor i am not obligated by law to have to keep it. I have the right as per Microsoft's own EULA for the refund and i am exercising my consumer right.

Don't get me wrong i can understand your perspective, but why should i pay for something i don't want? And in fact i don't own, its just a license for me to use, so its not like asking for different tries on a car, at least you own those and can resell. You never own windows.

[xir_]

I'm guessing that they will value it at £30


Well i've told them that i want to know, otherwise i will take it they will refund at retail, hopefully that will get them to respond.

[TheLions]

These companies will eventually have the book thrown at them. Its becoming a joke.

1) You want a laptop, but you cannot buy it without Windows so you pay for licence. Where is the choice?

2) You want a refund because you don't want Windows, but then they want 30GBP to wipe it off, even though you paid for the licence in the first place.

3) The operating system does not work properly. But you only find out after you accepted the licence.
Normally you would be able to take the product back to the shop you bought it from and get a refund, not in Microsoft's case.

4) You want a set of restore disks, because they don't supply them with the laptop. The inbuilt software fails 3 time (in my case). I ask for a set of restore disks and they want 49GBP, yet I already paid for a licence. However in the US the same set of restore disks costs about 15 Dollars.

5) You buy Vista on its own, yet you want to sell it. Your not happy with it. Your not allowed to sell it, or are you?

this reminds me on this:
http://www.net.hr/2009/09/29/0306007.23.jpg

[xir_]

right so they have offered me £33 for the copy of vista and they are charging me £31.99 for the test.

I think that this is a really transparent insult on their part. But seeing as its going back anyway i will accept just to say screw you back.

[rb0171610]

If you asked me, I'd say you've bought the thing with windows included, I do not see why you should be able to return windows for a refund.
Because they refuse to sell you the computer without Windows. It is anti-competitive. The reason that Microsoft has spent millions in legal fees and countless hours in court in both the US and EU over the last decade --

http://management.silicon.com/government/0,39024677,39153243,00.htm

[rb0171610]

right so they have offered me £33 for the copy of vista and they are charging me £31.99 for the test.

I think that this is a really transparent insult on their part. But seeing as its going back anyway i will accept just to say screw you back.
Interesting article on a situation similar to yours:
http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381

[gn2]

There's only one reliable way way to guarantee that you will avoid paying for a Windows licence when you buy a computer or laptop in the UK:

Buy one from a Linux specialist with Linux pre-installed.

[prshah]

But seeing as its going back anyway i will accept just to say screw you back.

Bit like cutting off your nose to spite your face; better to retain it (the Vista license) and make a complaint with the EU / your MP / anybody.

[koshatnik]

right so they have offered me £33 for the copy of vista and they are charging me £31.99 for the test.

I think that this is a really transparent insult on their part. But seeing as its going back anyway i will accept just to say screw you back.

So, there is no test. Its just a made up charge so they can recoup the loss of sale from Vista. So, retain your copy of Vista, and write to the EU and your MP. Simples. Oh, and tell Acer that as well.

[xir_]

So, there is no test. Its just a made up charge so they can recoup the loss of sale from Vista. So, retain your copy of Vista, and write to the EU and your MP. Simples. Oh, and tell Acer that as well.

i suppose you could be right i'll have to consider it carefully.

As for the others who said that i should just buy linux in the future, that's all well and true, but im a computational chemist and i require certain specifications for things i do.

This situation is no different than if i requested a refund of windows because i have a access to an academic licence at my uni. That on its own is enough ground to be entitled to a refund.

[ukripper]

i suppose you could be right i'll have to consider it carefully.

As for the others who said that i should just buy linux in the future, that's all well and true, but im a computational chemist and i require certain specifications for things i do.

This situation is no different than if i requested a refund of windows because i have a access to an academic licence at my uni. That on its own is enough ground to be entitled to a refund.

I'd boycott acer in the future and letting 'em know my intentions via email and get few people down on petition just to **** them off and fax/scan email a copy to MP.

[xir_]

I'd boycott acer in the future and letting 'em know my intentions via email and get few people down on petition just to **** them off and fax/scan email a copy to MP.


Yea i've contacted my mp before by email about mandelsons internet cut-off policy and he didn't reply.

But i will politely remind acer that there are dozens of ubuntu time-line users and i will get as many of them to sign a motion as i can.

Worse comes to worse with this i have added a voice to the call for os free laptops. They have been very polite and the laptop is lovely, but £1 refund is literally an insult.

[Swagman]

That sounds remarkably similar to the UK tax office.

I'm a HGV driver and at 45 years of age I had to go for my compulsory medical. This cost £145 but as it's work related we are supposedly allowed to claim it back from tax.

Put form in... then get a letter saying I have been underpaying PAYE (I had previous issues with this and had to pay back over a grand so I know it's set damn correct).

With the adjusted figure I got £3.50 back... the price of the bus fare !!

[ukripper]

That sounds remarkably similar to the UK tax office.

I'm a HGV driver and at 45 years of age I had to go for my compulsory medical. This cost £145 but as it's work related we are supposedly allowed to claim it back from tax.

Put form in... then get a letter saying I have been underpaying PAYE (I had previous issues with this and had to pay back over a grand so I know it's set damn correct).

With the adjusted figure I got £3.50 back... the price of the bus fare !!

How ridiculous!Shame ain't added to MP's expense claims.

[xir_]

Regarding your enquiry,


I can book your laptop in just for the recall issue that is fine as long as you aware that we will not do anything regards the operating system at the same time (unless of course you do wish to go ahead with it)
You do not pay any money for an operating system when you buy the laptop. You pay for the hardware only. The hard drive will come automatically with an OEM version of the OS on it so you are not paying a retail price for an OS which is why you do not get the retail price for it back. You get the cost of an OEM version back which is as stated for this version £33.95

If you wish to take it further and complain that is entirely upto you but please be aware the response will not change

All complaints are referenced through our Customer Services Department. All grievances will be investigated and dealt with appropriately.


here is the latest reply, apparently windows is free when you buy an ACER

[koshatnik]

here is the latest reply, apparently windows is free when you buy an ACER

*cough*bull_*cough*

MS does not supply software to anyone for free.

[t0p]

That message from Acer doesn't even make sense. First the guy says you don't pay anything for Windows; then he says you pay an OEM version price of £33.95. Both can't be right, it's either free or £33.95.

The problem with this is that it's for such a small amount of money. Otherwise it would be nice to take the OEM to court just to establish that customers do have the right to a refund. Is there any prospect of a class action lawsuit?

Alternatively, as you're in the UK, you could take Acer to the small claims court. I don't think that will set a precedent in law, but at least you'll get your refund.

And Microsoft's hands aren't clean. It really bugs me how MS just pass the buck. Some time ago I bought a reconditioned desktop with XP installed. The company I bought it from has since gone bust. I wanted to reinstall XP, but I wasn't supplied with a CD. So I emailed Microsoft, pointing out that I paid for XP and I still have a valid product key and license. But Microsoft just gave it the "Oh it's not down to us" bull-dust. Grrr...

[xir_]

well im getting a little upset with them now so i sent a reply which is harsher, because they have started to give me the run around.


What you have stated in your previous email was wrong and as I have stated already i am aware of the discount that you receive as a OEM supplier, I did in fact pay for the operating system when I bought the laptop, which is why you are able to offer a refund of £33, this is the price allegedly you have passed on to me for the operating system.

I quote from your previous correspondence.
"
You do not pay any money for an operating system when you buy the laptop. You pay for the hardware only. The hard drive will come automatically with an OEM version of the OS on it so you are not paying a retail price for an OS which is why you do not get the retail price for it back. You get the cost of an OEM version back which is as stated for this version £33.95

"
Logically I cannot get back what I haven't paid for.

My grievance is not to do with that fact you offer the refund at the OEM value, that is entirely acceptable, it is with the fact that you will charge me ~£32 to check that I, the customer, am not a liar, leaving me with a net gain of £1 for windows. If you had read my previous emails carefully then you would have understood that what i was reiterating was the point of view of trading standards with regards to the retail price.

If you had bought anything for £33 and it did not work and then you sought to return it only to find that there was a £32 fee to return it then you would be in the same position as I am. This isn't acceptable in shops! And i do not find it acceptable from yourselves.

i really don't like laying this on the guy who's just doing his job, but he cant misinform customers like that.

[Johnsie]

I don't like the screen that comes bundled with my laptop, does this mean I can send that back and get a refund?

[koshatnik]

I don't like the screen that comes bundled with my laptop, does this mean I can send that back and get a refund?

Oh dear. You've missed the fairway so massively, that you've gone over the long grass and onto next hole. Well done.

Microsoft itself states that if you do not accept the EULA for its software, then you are entitled to a refund. That is in the EULA. Go read it.

[t0p]

I don't like the screen that comes bundled with my laptop, does this mean I can send that back and get a refund?

If you bought the laptop with the understanding that you could return the unused screen for a refund, then yes you could.

Of course, it's highly unlikely that a laptop would be sold with such an understanding. But that is the situation as concerns pre-installed Windows operating systems. If you buy a laptop with Windows OS pre-installed and you don't want it, you are entitled to a refund.

But I doubt you'll take the slightest bit of notice of what I just wrote. I expect you've seen similar info many times, yet you persist in claiming that there's something wrong in wanting the refund. So you're hardly going to accept you're wrong now, are you?

[t0p]

i really don't like laying this on the guy who's just doing his job, but he cant misinform customers like that.

I wouldn't worry about upsetting the guy. He works in customer services, so it'll be water off a duck's back. Also, you're not having a go at him personally: you're criticizing what he wrote, which is probably passed down from higher authoroites. It's those higher authorities you're having a pop at, and this low-level functionary knows it.

But don't tell the guy he's a "low-level functionary". He knows what he is, but he probably likes to kid himself that he's more important than that.

[xir_]

I don't like the screen that comes bundled with my laptop, does this mean I can send that back and get a refund?

Three points
1. when you buy the screen you actually own it, you never own windows, you are just licensed to use it and technically that licence can be revoked.
2. You can accept that screen without agreeing to a restrictive contract.
3. You can resell that screen an replace it as you wish, not so easy with OEM windows which doesn't even come with a CD.


@t0p
I have asked him to pass this on to his supervisor as they are ultimately responsible for the policy, but he carefully ignored that.

I really don't like company's trying to catch me out, it really just bugs me.

[Johnsie]

Lol, nice golfing metaphor. Somehow I don't think I'm the one that's in the rough though. I tend to keep things on par and play the game the way I'm expected to. If a computer is advertised as coming with Windows then I would only purchase that computer if I wanted a computer that came with Windows. If Acer want to bundle Windows then fair play to them... I believe in freedom of the market and not forcing regulations on companies just to try and create competition. The EU is already a nanny state and we don't need more rules and restrictions coming out of Brussels thankyou very much.

Stop making innocent peoples lives difficult just because you like Linux.

[koshatnik]

Lol, nice golfing metaphor. Somehow I don't think I'm the one that's in the rough though. I tend to keep things on par and play the game the way I'm expected to. If a computer is advertised as coming with Windows then I would only purchase that computer if I wanted a computer that came with Windows. If Acer want to bundle Windows then fair play to them... I believe in freedom of the market and not forcing regulations on companies just to try and create competition. The EU is already a nanny state and we don't need more rules and restrictions coming out of Brussels thankyou very much.

Stop making innocent peoples lives difficult just because you like Linux.

What do we want? Brains!
When do we want them? Brains!

[xir_]

Lol, nice golfing metaphor. Somehow I don't think I'm the one that's in the rough though. I tend to keep things on par and play the game the way I'm expected to. If a computer is advertised as coming with Windows then I would only purchase that computer if I wanted a computer that came with Windows. If Acer want to bundle Windows then fair play to them... I believe in freedom of the market and not forcing regulations on companies just to try and create competition. The EU is already a nanny state and we don't need more rules and restrictions coming out of Brussels thankyou very much.


It may be bundled, but the first thing it says when you turn the laptop on is "if you do not agree to any of the terms please contact you hardware manufacturer for a refund"

Microsoft is a monopoly, they avoid legislation with many countries by offering a refund, this is good for consumers who don't really have a choice.

If you always play by a companies rules then you will always be the looser in the end. I choose to exercise my rights, that's it. The topic of this thread isn't "tell me what you think of capitalism", it's established im entitled to a refund, that's final. Please create you own thread if you wish to debate about if you think its right or wrong.

As far as a debate on the EU is going, that is not appropriate for these forums.



edit: one more thing, i have an academic licence to windows anyway, so regardless of my linux fanboyism i dont need it.

[t0p]

Lol, nice golfing metaphor. Somehow I don't think I'm the one that's in the rough though. I tend to keep things on par and play the game the way I'm expected to. If a computer is advertised as coming with Windows then I would only purchase that computer if I wanted a computer that came with Windows.

But it is a lot simpler and cheaper to buy a computer that comes with Windows. If you were then by law stuck with Windows, then you'd have a point. But the law says that we do not have to be stuck with Windows. The law recognizes the fundamentally uncompetitive way Microsoft influences the market, and has provided a remedy: the right to a refund. Microsoft and the OEMs don't like that law, and look for ways to get around it. Thus Acer does the crap that the OP complains about. It isn't the OP who's not "playing the game the way he's expected to" - it's Acer who's trying to get around the rules.



If Acer want to bundle Windows then fair play to them... I believe in freedom of the market and not forcing regulations on companies just to try and create competition. The EU is already a nanny state and we don't need more rules and restrictions coming out of Brussels thankyou very much.

Rules and regulations will come from Brussels anyway. All we can do is influence what those rules and regulations say.

And there isn't a "free market" if a large company can use its position to distort that market. Rules and regulations are necessary to make sure the market remains free. My nephew understands this, and he's only 18 months old! :p



Stop making innocent peoples lives difficult just because you like Linux.

Which innocent person is having his life made difficult? The only person in this thread who fits that description is the OP. Certainly Acer's life isn't being made difficult at all. Life would seem to be simple for Acer if they can wheedle their way out of having to fulfill the legal requirements.

[NCLI]

But it is a lot simpler and cheaper to buy a computer that comes with Windows. If you were then by law stuck with Windows, then you'd have a point. But the law says that we do not have to be stuck with Windows. The law recognizes the fundamentally uncompetitive way Microsoft influences the market, and has provided a remedy: the right to a refund. Microsoft and the OEMs don't like that law, and look for ways to get around it. Thus Acer does the crap that the OP complains about. It isn't the OP who's not "playing the game the way he's expected to" - it's Acer who's trying to get around the rules.



Rules and regulations will come from Brussels anyway. All we can do is influence what those rules and regulations say.

And there isn't a "free market" if a large company can use its position to distort that market. Rules and regulations are necessary to make sure the market remains free. My nephew understands this, and he's only 18 months old! :p



Which innocent person is having his life made difficult? The only person in this thread who fits that description is the OP. Certainly Acer's life isn't being made difficult at all. Life would seem to be simple for Acer if they can wheedle their way out of having to fulfill the legal requirements.
Well said!! +1

[prshah]

I choose to exercise my rights, that's it. The topic of this thread isn't "tell me what you think of capitalism", it's established im entitled to a refund, that's final. Please create you own thread if you wish to debate about if you think its right or wrong.

OK I know this is non-contributory, but I really like this, on so many levels; everything, sentiment, content, sentence structure, chutzpah, everything. And I agree too, but that's secondary to my admiration for this paragraph.

No reply comment requested or expected.

[omar8]

It doesn't make sense to buy a computer then demand a refund for Windows, if you don't want Windows buy another PC. Acer will not be paying full price for Windows, infact they are probably paying about £30-£40 per license, to demand a full refund for Windows is absurd.
There are many linux PCs out, go for one of them.

[NCLI]

It doesn't make sense to buy a computer then demand a refund for Windows, if you don't want Windows buy another PC. Acer will not be paying full price for Windows, infact they are probably paying about £30-£40 per license, to demand a full refund for Windows is absurd.
There are many linux PCs out, go for one of them.
Yes, but there is a FAR more varied selection of notebooks/netbooks with Windows, not to mention they're cheaper since the manufacturers can order more parts at a time, so they get them cheaper.

[xir_]

It doesn't make sense to buy a computer then demand a refund for Windows, if you don't want Windows buy another PC. Acer will not be paying full price for Windows, infact they are probably paying about £30-£40 per license, to demand a full refund for Windows is absurd.
There are many linux PCs out, go for one of them.

You obviously haven't read any of this thread, please do so before posting in future.

If you had read what i had said and emailed acer you would know i am happy with a £33 refund but not the £32 that they are charging me for the refund itself. This means they are offering me £1 for windows vista.

I have specific needs because I'm a computational chemist, so i choose the refund route, rather than getting something that doesn't meet my needs.

[betrunkenaffe]

Don't give in, don't pay them 32 pounds to have them verify you are telling the truth. You are returning the product which will invalidate the license with Microsoft. If they want to confirm you don't have Windows on the laptop, that is their right, they cannot charge you so they can perform said work.

They owe you 33.95 as per their emailed OEM cost that you have paid for Windows.

This will be frustrating, good luck.

[koshatnik]

What don't people get?

You decline the EULA, you are due a refund. Microsoft say this. End of discussion.

[HomoGleek]

What don't people get?

You decline the EULA, you are due a refund. Microsoft say this. End of discussion.
Dell get it : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/19/windows_dell_linux_refund/

[prshah]

Dell get it : http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/10/19/windows_dell_linux_refund/

Wow, that's a good read (the blog linked in the article (http://gwa.tumblr.com/); the article is dry as dust); he persevered, got a refund, and, like the good guy he is, donated it to Linux Mint (his choice of Linux)!!

In a way; MS paid for his Mint! :) I don't think it can get any better...

[velcroman]

I am looking to buy some 10" netbooks which are not infected with M$ Windows so I asked Acer about a Windows refund.

I promptly received a reply telling me that the process will cost me £51.99 + 2 x carriage (to return my PC and receive it back). They will wipe the PC - obviously they don't trust me.

They will then refund...

£20.30 for XP Home
£33.95 for XP Pro
£61.12 for XP MCE

...so it is not worth trying to get a refund from Acer because it will cost more than the refund.

This proves that the refund concept is recognised by Acer, but not a viable option.

[xir_]

I am looking to buy some 10" netbooks which are not infected with M$ Windows so I asked Acer about a Windows refund.

I promptly received a reply telling me that the process will cost me £51.99 + 2 x carriage (to return my PC and receive it back). They will wipe the PC - obviously they don't trust me.

They will then refund...

£20.30 for XP Home
£33.95 for XP Pro
£61.12 for XP MCE

...so it is not worth trying to get a refund from Acer because it will cost more than the refund.

This proves that the refund concept is recognised by Acer, but not a viable option.

My advice is to maybe look at dell if any net book will do as i have heard of better experiences getting refunds from them (but I'd look into this first).

The answer is that i am going to put in a complaint with the EU competition commission, trading standards ect. I may even fire one of to Microsoft letting them know i will be sending in a complaint, maybe it will spur them on to change ACER's policy. Honest to god i have no problem with Microsoft on this, but they are the only ones ACER will listen too.

In the reply i received from ACER they quite literally ignored the whole issue of claiming that they only sell hardware and not software, i must have stumped him, but i am not further forward.

[t0p]

This proves that the refund concept is recognised by Acer, but not a viable option.

No, this proves that Acer are determined to avoid paying refunds.

It's worth remembering that Acer policy is not law. The right to a refund *is* law. Tell Acer if they want "proof" that you've wiped Windows, they're welcome to make an appointment to come round and examine your computer. But you want your refund.

If everyone who would like a refund pursued it robustly, Acer might change their tune. As long as everyone shrugs and goes on with their business quietly, Acer will continue with their outrageous policies. And maybe formulate new ones.

Here's an idea for the folks at Acer: when a customer calls to complain that their computer is faulty and needs repairing under warranty, tell him that the repair will be free but the customer must pay £230 carriage costs. Then there'll be no more pesky warranty claims.

[prshah]

Here's an idea for the folks at Acer: when a customer calls to complain that their computer is faulty and needs repairing under warranty, tell him that the repair will be free but the customer must pay £230 carriage costs. Then there'll be no more pesky warranty claims.

Potential situations like this is exactly why I self-build my desktops. I had also tried to get a laptop kit from Intel/ASUS (VBI kit), but could not.

Well said.

[t0p]

Wow, that's a good read (the blog linked in the article (http://gwa.tumblr.com/); the article is dry as dust); he persevered, got a refund, and, like the good guy he is, donated it to Linux Mint (his choice of Linux)!!

In a way; MS paid for his Mint! :) I don't think it can get any better...

The OP may also be interested in this feature at Linux.com, "How to get a Windows tax refund" (http://www.linux.com/archive/articles/59381). 3 good bits of advice there:


Don't argue: escalate.
Don't settle.
Use the precedents (which in the OP's case means searching for examples of Acer giving refunds).

There's also a nice set of possible excuses you'll hear from customer service reps and suitable responses. All worth a giggle anyway.

EDIT: A precedent of Acer being forced to pay up is reported here (http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1020465/man-wins-damages-from-acer-over-voleware-refund). The Inquirer says that the judge criticized Acer for "Abusive Resistance" when they attempted to pull their tricks on Antoine Gutzwiller. Unfortunately, the website where the Inquirer found the story seems to be down. Maybe a search for "Antoine Gutzwiller" will be more fruitful.

EDIT2: There's also info on getting a refund from Acer in the attached pdf.

[xir_]

Here's an idea for the folks at Acer: when a customer calls to complain that their computer is faulty and needs repairing under warranty, tell him that the repair will be free but the customer must pay £230 carriage costs. Then there'll be no more pesky warranty claims.


This is pretty much where it seems to be going, but ACER claimed that removal of windows is not a warranty issue and therefore merits a charge.

Next step will be a phone call when I'm feeling bored with my research and need a break.

[mivo]

Try not to "threaten" them with complaints to the EU or the MP. From a CS perspective, it costs you credibility. Please believe me that I do not mean for this to sound negative. In customer service, every second person who doesn't get the response they want will say this or something similar. It will not be taken seriously.

I agree that they are toying with you and that their responses and numbers seem made up and unreasonable. You have to stick to the license agreement, letter by letter, and repeat it like a prayer mill. Don't get into grudge matches, always stay factual and dry. No emotion. The license says that if you do not use Windows (this means you don't even install it), you are entitled to a refund. That is all there is to it. It doesn't say you have to prove anything or pay for their expenses.

You do fight windmills here and your chance to succeed is slim. But keep at it, calmly and focused. After ten emails I would ask for an alternaten contact (and their name), or place a call. You can take it further, but risk expenses that exceed the price of the hardware.

In general, though, anyone who wants a netbook with Linux can find one. My HP Mini 2140 for example was offered with either Windows or Linux (I wanted the Windows version in this particular case, but that's another story). This helps the Linux market share much more than if you get a Windows version and then spend weeks or months trying to get a few bucks back. Even if 10,000 people did the same, it would not weaken MS or strengthen Linux, but only get the licenses/agreements altered.

[xir_]

Try not to "threaten" them with complaints to the EU or the MP. From a CS perspective, it costs you credibility. Please believe me that I do not mean for this to sound negative. In customer service, every second person who doesn't get the response they want will say this or something similar. It will not be taken seriously.

I agree that they are toying with you and that their responses and numbers seem made up and unreasonable. You have to stick to the license agreement, letter by letter, and repeat it like a prayer mill. Don't get into grudge matches, always stay factual and dry. No emotion. The license says that if you do not use Windows (this means you don't even install it), you are entitled to a refund. That is all there is to it. It doesn't say you have to prove anything or pay for their expenses.

You do fight windmills here and your chance to succeed is slim. But keep at it, calmly and focused. After ten emails I would ask for an alternaten contact (and their name), or place a call. You can take it further, but risk expenses that exceed the price of the hardware.

In general, though, anyone who wants a netbook with Linux can find one. My HP Mini 2140 for example was offered with either Windows or Linux (I wanted the Windows version in this particular case, but that's another story). This helps the Linux market share much more than if you get a Windows version and then spend weeks or months trying to get a few bucks back. Even if 10,000 people did the same, it would not weaken MS or strengthen Linux, but only get the licenses/agreements altered.


I totally agree with what you have typed here. I would have loved loved loved to support a linux vendor, but my specification requirements were a non atom cpu (you just cant do worse than atom for quantum chemistry) with 4 gigs of ram and good battery life as i bought it for a conference.

I may ask the customer service representative to show me where in the EULA it insists i must prove i have relinquished windows ownership, but they don't seem to be reading my emails properly at all, instead they pick one thing and then reply.

[t0p]

Even if 10,000 people did the same, it would not weaken MS or strengthen Linux, but only get the licenses/agreements altered.

How so? The refund clause was put in their EULAs because it was considered anti-competitive to not offer refunds for unused Windows. In other words, the courts (or the lawyers) told them to offer refunds. In other words, they gotta offer refunds. Whether customers ask for them or not.

If 10,000 customers asked for refunds, it would indicate to the OEMs that there is a real interest in OSes like the Linuxes. This would make it more likely that the OEMs would start to offer more systems with Linux installed (or with no OS installed). The OEMs currently don't bother offering Linux because they think hardly anyone wants Linux. If things looked different, they'd change their minds. They are interested in sales and profits. They don't supply Microsoft products out of some kind of religious duty.

I also dispute your suggestion that threatening to take the matter further will somehow damage your credibility. Of course, lame threats like "Gimme a refund or I'm gonna tell!" wouldn't be very useful. But including in your email a link to a news report (http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/09/26/acer_laptop_microsoft_windows_french_ruling/) about how Antoine Gutzwiller was awarded €811 in damages because of Acer's "abusive resistance" could be helpful to your cause. It will at least indicate to Acer that you have researched the matter and know you have a case.

NB: The laptop that Antoine bought from Acer cost €599. The court ordered Acer to pay him €811. This was after they'd tried to fob him off with €30. Acer's position is not as strong as they pretend, and they know it. In my opinion, of course.

[mivo]

In other words, the courts (or the lawyers) told them to offer refunds. In other words, they gotta offer refunds. Whether customers ask for them or not.

In German, we have a proverb that roughly translates to, "To be in the right and to get your right is not the same."

As I wrote in my other post, the license says he is entitled to a refund. That is, legally, all there is to it. But as he, and we, have seen, that doesn't seem enough. He has to "enforce" his right, and that is where it gets tricky. He says, "I would like my refund" and they say, "No" or, "Only if you pay us this amount." So, now what? The logical next step would be to get a lawyer. How many people are willing or able to do that? It costs time, is a hassle, and there is a financial risk, too. They have a long breath, those large companies.

See, I'm not disagreeing. I do believe the CS responses were rude and disrespectful, basically telling him to sod off. I did do a few years in customer service (different field, many years ago) and I would never, ever have dreamt of being such a snot. But no, being in the right isn't always enough, and that's why it is easier to just buy a Linux netbook (but this wasn't a choice here, so it's a moot point).

It's frustrating. I always felt that computers should be sold without an OS, or at least offered that way. I know why it isn't done (support nightmare, for one), but those bundles have gotten us into the place we are in now.

[t0p]

The logical next step would be to get a lawyer. How many people are willing or able to do that? It costs time, is a hassle, and there is a financial risk, too. They have a long breath, those large companies.
Of course you are right. But that doesn't mean he has to give up, nor that he has to go get a lawyer. There are alternative approaches, some of which I have mentioned in earlier posts. This thread inspired me to do some simple searches on the subject, which turned up all sorts of articles, advice and resources on the subject of getting refunds in general, and getting them from Acer in particular.

As you suggest, getting a lawyer and taking Acer to court would be expensive, long-drawn, and possibly fruitless But demonstrating to Acer that you know your rights and showing them various examples of how Acer have been forced in the past to concede may persuade the manager responsible for dealing with you that it would be a lot easier to just pay up this time. They have done it before and they will do it again. But they won't give you anything if your approach is just to say "Can I have a refund?... no?... okay I'll just go away then". You've got to escalate the matter to a manager who can authorize a payment, and you have to demonstrate to him that he really needs to authorize a payment. Otherwise you may as well just forget it.

[xir_]

i may quote these legal scripts to the customer support and if he ignores me then i shall phone and try and get to as high a position as possible.

[xir_]

this is what i sent acer, please note that the return part is regaurding the recent product recall.



Hello Acer support

Before i start giving details regarding this laptop return i want to point you to two recent court ruling regarding windows refunds within Europe.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/09/26/acer_laptop_microsoft_windows_french_ruling/

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/10/29/hp_windows_xp_preinstalled_software/

Both of these show that in EU countries laptop manufacturers have been forced to repay the cost of windows in full without a checking fee. In fact the first case which was issued in France cost ACER twice the value of originally sold laptop.

I ask that you contact your supervisor and point him to this material as the ACER company is clearly in the legal wrong here and get back to me once he has considered it.

[xir_]

im getting rather excited now about this


Hello, Thank you for contacting Acer.

Regarding your enquiry,

I am awaiting a reply and will let you know the outcome.

Regards
Matt

Acer Technical Support Team


they may actually be considering those links

[blur xc]

This is a great story- once it's all said and done (and you have your £30), you should create a blog page so others with the same problem can find you story on a google search.

BM

[exosyst]

I am following this thread after recently buying a 4810T from Dixons that came with Vista. Can I ask who you bought it from and are they refusing to play ball as well?

[xir_]

I am following this thread after recently buying a 4810T from Dixons that came with Vista. Can I ask who you bought it from and are they refusing to play ball as well?

i bought from simplyacer.com.

i haven't bother to contact them about this refund as they are not responsible, they are just an acer reseller :). The EULA says manufacturer so that's why i left them out. I'm sure if i asked they would just direct me to acer.

Still awaiting for a reply from ACER atm. will update as soon as i do.

[gn2]

Acer aren't the manufacturer either, they get their stuff built for them by ODM companies in the far east.

[xir_]

Acer aren't the manufacturer either, they get their stuff built for them by ODM companies in the far east.

I think acer is the closest i am going to get somehow.

someone recently told me that acer was one of the worst run businesses on the planet, any one know why?

[xir_]

time for an update, i asked them why i ahvent had a reply and i got this back:


Hello, Thank you for contacting Acer.

Regarding your enquiry,

I've confirmed with my manager that she has passed it upwards, and she'll email once she's got the definite reply.

Regards


looks good so far.

[Kebabman]

After seeing this I thought I'd give it a go as well as I also did not accept the EULA on a netbook I purchased a little under 2 weeks ago.

I have emailed them so shall patiently await their reply.

[Kebabman]

They are starting to give me the run around and are asking for £51.99 to send the netbook back to them. This includes the courier and engineer costs apparently. They said this is needed so they can format the hard drive, a task which I quite obviously do not want performing as windows is no longer on it.

I have replied stating this and asking them what the value of the OEM licence is worth so I will wait yet again...

[mikewhatever]

Just read through the whole thread, and I have to say, it's priceless. I'd like to publicly applaud xir for being a self conscious consumer, something I don't see a lot these days.=D>
Bookmarked for future reference.

[xir_]

Just read through the whole thread, and I have to say, it's priceless. I'd like to publicly applaud xir for being a self conscious consumer, something I don't see a lot these days.=D>
Bookmarked for future reference.


thanks :lol:, i'm still waiting for a reply so i am going to pester them tomorrow for some info. (been a good couple of weeks already.)

[xir_]

major update time


My name is ####### and I am the Escalation Manager. I have been forwarded your emails with regards the Window EULA Refund.

Firstly I would like to apology that this matter has gone this far without a resolution in place and for the delays in this matter.

Please can you complete the attached form, and return along with your unit to myself, I will ensure your unit is downgraded as required in line with the EULA.

There will be no charge to you for this.



so there we have it the matter seems to have been resolved fully.

I will donate any money i get from this to the ubuntu project.

[mivo]

Good to see that your patience and persistence paid off. :)

[gletob]

major update time




so there we have it the matter seems to have been resolved fully.

I will donate any money i get from this to the ubuntu project.

SOunds like they want you to send them the laptop too.

[xir_]

SOunds like they want you to send them the laptop too.

have to anyway, there was a product recall and it needs to have a cable fixed, so no biggy.

[Gizenshya]

Why did you buy one with Windows on it?

Just pohone order next time, and have them ship you one without Windows. They just subtract the cost of Windows from the cost and you're set.

I don't know if that applies in the UK, though...

but here in the US, they are required to remove the OS at request, for any computer sale. They aren't required to mention it, or to show it on their sites, but they have to do it when asked (which usually means phone orders).

But now that you've already bought one with Windows, what I would do if I were you right now is call Acer and inquire about buying a new laptop. Say the model and everything that you want, and get the cost. Then say you want one without Windows on it, just the computer. Say you've already checked compatibility and everything, and just want a price. Then, take the difference in price and you have your Windows value.

Just make up a name and email if they insist on having that info, and say you're a first time customer. Or, make an email account and get the name of the person you talked to, and whenever you call back about your laptop (that you have now), tell them to remove the amount that so-and-so from Acer told you.

Well, theoretically, anyway. I did that at one company (Compaq), and they took off $85. I've heard others say that other companies take off much smaller amounts. I've even heard people claim that OEM-versions of Windows that computer manufacturers use only cost $25 apiece.

Still, I'd do what I just mentioned, and report back here with your results. You can also google around a bit about OEM windows costs, maybe also focusing on the UK. But I'd certainly call them.

And if all that fails, you still have options. Most computer companies will resolve pretty much ANY complaint. The trick is to not get put off too soon. Their lower level people are trained one way-- to directly say, or to strongly imply that whatever you are wanting is not possible. One of their jobs is to shy people away from going further with their complaints. But, they all have several levels of complaints, and their butts are saved because people rarely go through all levels-- but they are their for their use. As long as you do not accept it, you keep going up the ladder. Eventually they have their main claim people, which have different names, depending on the company. They are usually called something like "claim representatives" or "case managers," and they are the people you want to talk to.

I'll tell you one of my typical experiences, in case you're wondering how it tends to pan out. I have a zillion stories like this, and I've always gotten my way with any company. They prefer quick, cheap fixes, but I'm convinced they will almost always set you straight... if you have enough patience and knowledge. I have friends and family call me up all the time to get me to talk to customer support for them-- I love it :D

Just remember to stay calm and don't insult them or get pissed off.

Case-in-point: HP pissed me off because of their poor quality keyboards that come with their desktops (it broke the first day). I called about it, they said sorry, but they refuse to do anything about it. I talked to his manager, and he called me a liar and all this other crap, and said that he refuses to help me. I insisted that I should be helped, and he transferred me to one of those claims people, who called me back the next day. He said he was sorry for all the inconvenience the keyboard has caused me, and for all the delays, and said that not only will he replace they keyboard, but he will upgrade it and ship it next-day at no cost at all to me. I didn't want the wireless gaming keyboard that he offered, so I asked for a cheaper wired one. He ended up shipping me a nice ergo keyboard that actually did arrive the next day.

All I really wanted was an equiv keyboard replacement, but he sent me that. The only reason I can think of is that they wanted to turn an unsatisfied customer into one who spreads the good word of HP customer support. Well, I don't know if I would call me satisfied. I'm typing from that keyboard right now... but after all the insults and fiasco I had to endure to get any meaningful response, I'm never buying HP again. HP's involvement in the Intel fiasco makes that stance even stronger.

[jayze]

Once again please forgive my ignorance!...I:) gave up "company fighting" a while back (on the basis it usually costs more in calls,letters, stress, fuel etc than the product was worth in the first place. Wiping??? I have a disc called "wipe out" (had since the 1990s can't remember where I got it)... any problems with PC's( new or old) then in goes "wipe out" ...then you put whatever you want on when the disc is clean...as a matter of interest does anybody know where I can get a new copy of wipe out...I get a feeling it will have to do some extra work getting rid of windows so as to install ubuntu for my family and friends now that I've actually used ubuntu and can testify that personally I find it far superior.. (gosh you tech people must have a lot of fun laughing at my naievity...blush!):popcorn:

[jayze]

Oh and just noticed the reply above about HP!....:confused:....after certain experiences with HP...lets just say words fail me and I'd rather just donate money to charity and do without a PC...and believe me that would be like cutting off a limb!..I'm sure you get the picture...here is my list of "bad experience"...in chronological order ..

PC world...HP...Cyberlink...norton...microsoft...My friendly neighbourhood hacker..my local rip of PC shop cum "expert"

here is my list of "good experience"

Dell...Kapersky...Secunia...Ubuntu...


I've come to the conclusion with IT, that like most things in life...if you want something done well then do it yourself...:popcorn::)

[blur xc]

Once again please forgive my ignorance!...I:) gave up "company fighting" a while back (on the basis it usually costs more in calls,letters, stress, fuel etc than the product was worth in the first place. Wiping??? I have a disc called "wipe out" (had since the 1990s can't remember where I got it)... any problems with PC's( new or old) then in goes "wipe out" ...then you put whatever you want on when the disc is clean...as a matter of interest does anybody know where I can get a new copy of wipe out...I get a feeling it will have to do some extra work getting rid of windows so as to install ubuntu for my family and friends now that I've actually used ubuntu and can testify that personally I find it far superior.. (gosh you tech people must have a lot of fun laughing at my naievity...blush!):popcorn:

It's called gparted- boot the live cd, and find gparted in the system -> administration menu. From there you can do whatever you want to the HDD besides just wiping it out. Move, resize partitions, change filesystems, whatever...

For a normal Ubuntu install, I'd got w/ a 15 - 20 gig root partition, 2 - 4 gig swap partition (opinions vary on that one) and leave the rest for the home directory. When you've got all that done, click the isntall ubuntu icon, and when you get to the partitioning step, select the advanced option and from there you can select each partition you created and where you want them mounted. Obviously, select the first one to mount on / (root) and the big one to mount on /home. Swap gets selected automatically. BAM. Simple stupid easy.

Apologies to the OP for going OT, at the same time congrats on the victory. I just wiped win 7 off a brand now Dell netbook and did a full install of Karmic NBR, but I don't think I'm that motivated to push for a windows refund. I should though, on principle, but I'm lazy. I'm not that hard up for $30.

BM

[Gizenshya]

major update time




so there we have it the matter seems to have been resolved fully.

I will donate any money i get from this to the ubuntu project.

wow... I don't know how I missed this post the first timem around.

I guess my last post really brought nothing to the table for you... sorry :p

congrats, though ;)

[xir_]

@Gizenshya (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=737496) that doesn't work in the UK i've tried. it's windows or lump it.

edit: never mind just saw your post

[jayze]

It's called gparted- boot the live cd, and find gparted in the system -> administration menu. From there you can do whatever you want to the HDD besides just wiping it out. Move, resize partitions, change filesystems, whatever...

For a normal Ubuntu install, I'd got w/ a 15 - 20 gig root partition, 2 - 4 gig swap partition (opinions vary on that one) and leave the rest for the home directory. When you've got all that done, click the isntall ubuntu icon, and when you get to the partitioning step, select the advanced option and from there you can select each partition you created and where you want them mounted. Obviously, select the first one to mount on / (root) and the big one to mount on /home. Swap gets selected automatically. BAM. Simple stupid easy.

Apologies to the OP for going OT, at the same time congrats on the victory. I just wiped win 7 off a brand now Dell netbook and did a full install of Karmic NBR, but I don't think I'm that motivated to push for a windows refund. I should though, on principle, but I'm lazy. I'm not that hard up for $30.

BM
I'm not clever enough/ dont have the confidence to do it your way...amire your guts wiping 7 off a brand new dell...and yes...congratulations are in order...open some bubbly jeeves!:):)

[mikewhatever]

xir_, thanks for the update and congratulations. I've actually checked this thread just a few days ago, but seeing no news sort of decided you must have given up. I feel proud of you now, not only because the matter got resolved, but mostly because of the rather remarkable and rare determination you've displayed. Well done.

[xir_]

xir_, thanks for the update and congratulations. I've actually checked this thread just a few days ago, but seeing no news sort of decided you must have given up. I feel proud of you now, not only because the matter got resolved, but mostly because of the rather remarkable and rare determination you've displayed. Well done.


thanks for the encouragement, it was no skin of my nose to email them, in the new year i was going to call them due to the lack of movement. Effectively this took 5 months to complete.

I'm hoping that this will help people who also have trouble get their money back from vendors. Maybe it will be easier in the future for people contacting acer.

[t0p]

I'm hoping that this will help people who also have trouble get their money back from vendors. Maybe it will be easier in the future for people contacting acer.

With your permission I would like to distill your words in this thread into a single post on my blog (http://ihatehate.wordpress.com). May I? It might give encouragement to other folk who want to get a Windows tax refund.

[xir_]

With your permission I would like to distill your words in this thread into a single post on my blog (http://ihatehate.wordpress.com). May I? It might give encouragement to other folk who want to get a Windows tax refund.


go for it, can't hurt i'm sure.

I think i should also thank everyone in this thread for their advice and support in getting this refund.