sexism in FOSS? [mainly a poll]

[Xbehave]

Instead of YAFW(flame war) I was wondering what the majority of people across the gender divide felt on the issue

note: if you are transgender post as whatever you consider yourself.

edit :
I'm a man, and i think the sexist comments are insignificant compared to the size of FOSS = No sexism
I'm a woman, and i think the sexist comments are insignificant compared to the size of FOSS = No sexism

I can't edit the poll but given the limit of 10 options would probably have worded the option

I'm a (wo)man, and I think there are no sexist comments/they are insignificant compared to the size of FOSS
but i would have to fit it in 100 chars

edit 2:

I'm a (wo)man, and I think there are no sexist comments/they are insignificant compared to the size of FOSS/they only reflect badly on the commenter not on FOSS/IT
but in 100 chars

[dragos240]

Oh not another thread like this. IMHO there is no "sexism" here, the shuttleworth thing was a mistake. It was a joke!

[HappinessNow]

sexism in FOSS? [mainly a poll] (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1289592)Where's the poll?

EDIT: There's the poll, finally


What is your opinion? (votes are anon)
I'm a man, and I think women don't get computers so the sexist comments are right
I'm a man, and i think the sexist comments are insignificant compared to the size of FOSS
I'm a man, and i think the sexist comments are reflective of sexism in the IT industry not FOSS
I'm a man, and I think the sexist comments are being blown out of proportion but do reflect sexism
I'm a man, and I think the sexist comments are reflective of an underlying sexism in foss
I'm a woman, and I think women don't get computers so the sexist comments are right
I'm a woman, and i think the sexist comments are insignificant compared to the size of foss
I'm a woman, and i think the sexist comments are reflective of sexism in the IT industry not FOSS
I'm a woman, and I think the sexist comments are being blown out of proportion but do reflect sexism
I'm a woman, and I think the sexist comments are reflective of an underlying sexism in foss

It's a flawed poll by design so I will abstain from voting.

[NoaHall]

There's no option for choosing there's no sexism?

[Xbehave]

Sorry i was referring to the wider controversy (http://www.linux-magazine.com/content/view/full/40376) that this has stirred up.
slashdot story on the issue (with many comments) (http://news.slashdot.org/story/09/10/12/1512238/FOSS-Sexism-Claims-Met-With-Ire-and-Denial?art_pos=3)
wiki page containing 54 incidents of sexism (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Incidents)

sorry about the delay didn't realise that the post would go live before the poll was there, erm options 2,6 were ment to be no sexism but the 10 option limit means i did not add an option that says "no sexism exists" (which tbh i doubt is true given some of the examples I've read )

[Bodsda]

Personally I think most times people do not mean to be sexist, it is more the way that the 'insulted' party is viewing the situation. I hold the same views about racism as well

The racism and sexism cards are played way too much and usually it is because people cant take a joke

[mcduck]

The poll seems to lack the option "I'm a *, and I think the sexist comments reflect the immaturity of the person who made the comment, not the FOSS, IT industry or anything else" :)

[coldReactive]

the poll seems to lack the option "i'm a *, and i think the sexist comments reflect the immaturity of the person who made the comment, not the foss, it industry or anything else" :)

+1

[Tristam Green]

+1 to the above, and it's not endemic, however, to FOSS.

There isn't inherent sexism in the industry. It resides in individuals who can't seem to deal with the fact that there are successful women in *any* industry. The very same people who act sexist in IT will act sexist anywhere else.

[Xbehave]

The poll seems to lack the option "I'm a *, and I think the sexist comments reflect the immaturity of the person who made the comment, not the FOSS, IT industry or anything else" :)
That is what the insignificant option was meant to represent that it doesn't reflect badly on the floss community just because some people may be.

[Xbehave]

+1 to the above, and it's not endemic, however, to FOSS.

There isn't inherent sexism in the industry. It resides in individuals who can't seem to deal with the fact that there are successful women in *any* industry. The very same people who act sexist in IT will act sexist anywhere else.
I think that is a given for most "ists", however the argument is that there are more of these people in FOSS than elsewhere. As a result it would discourage women from joining projects/communites.

[Warpnow]

Stereotypes spawn from truths overgeneralized and exaggerated. Recognition of stereotypes that are generally accurate are not prejudiced. An african american in the US is over twice as likely to have grown up in poverty than a caucasion. Simple statistic.

It is prejudice only when you use that to pre-judge people, or when you draw assumptions about people from meeting them.

Of course, prejudice is not always abserd. If someone wears a Dallas Cowboys shirt to a party, and you say, "So, did you see the game?", you would be rather confused when they responded, "You are such a prejudiced creton for assuming I am a fan merely because I choose to dress this way."

Prejudices remaining in the form of prediction are not terrible. They become unethical, or immoral, when you attempt to hold people to the standard of your prejudice. When you treat people worse because of it, and when you begin to attatch negative consequence to not following said prejudice or stereotype.

[bapoumba]

Beware, the line is very close and we all know were these kind of threads can end up.

[wilee-nilee]

I might suggest that no matter how enlightened you are we are all subject to scripting through social norms. Now this social norm stuff comes at us through pop-culture, cultural beliefs, and a whole hodge podge of other sources that there are to many to list. So all we can do is be self reflective on how we interact with others, and hopefuly recognize when we are following a flawed script the demoralizes or dehumanizes another.

So having conclusions in this area that do not take these things into consideration will probably keep you from finding more cohesive inclusive interactions.

[tcoffeep]

Sexism is stupid. You guys need to calm down. Seriously. Pay attention to the ******* software, not the developers. You whiny bunch of girls.

(c wut i did thar)

[Dayofswords]

while women are not very present I think that a few people have goten a locker room mindset, a few, not all.

sexism is present nearly everywhere, whether its from men towards women or women toward men(dont dare say it doesnt happen, i find them quite equal in presence) but don't let comments from anyone get to you and don't go on a far tangent[1] (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Launchpad_users_encouraged_to_use_real_names)[2] (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Ubuntero_gendered_name) or cite one incident[1] (http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_Shuttleworth_at_Linuxcon) and say theres a major issue going on in all of FOSS

women are welcome to join, contribute, argue, disagree, agree, and update the code. don't think because your a girl/woman/female/however you'd like to be discribed(see other thinking 2) that your not liked here or that your contributions dont matter. you may get trashed talked, you may get thrown the finger a few times, but everyone does, male and female alike. keep coding. keep designing. keep being alive... and other's comments will not phase you.

don't let the bad apples make you think the barrel is tainted.


in other thinking...
a double standard in the whole sexist thing is that feminism female is fine but masuclism male would be highly offensive...

saying "girl" instead of "woman" cant be that big of deal, i mean guys say girl for the first like 18 years of life, changing such a habit isnt a snap.


we know godaddy's ads are offensive but look at the logo, its a dirty old man, you except less?
they're just around still cuz thier cheap and the gooo dadddyy tune is catchy

not trying to feed the flames but theres my opinion

[handy]

Sexually speaking (or any other way) who does this thread benefit?

No one.

[haemulon]

It does seem to me that "jokes" are usually just a way to express a negative viewpoint or feeling about some other person (usually), or a situation but couched as a "joke" to deflect any discussion or criticism toward the "joker".

Anyhow it seems that if something is said that insults someone, the proper thing to do is examine you manner of "joking" and expressing yourself, a simple apology or comment to explain the "joke" (such as "I didn't mean it that way") doesn't hurt anyone, and shows the "joker" really just expressed himself badly. That type of reaction is a one of a more positive individual.

Instead the "joker" will usually just continue the behavior and make excuses for it by further degrading the other person with statements of the type; "what's the matter you can't take a joke", "don't be so sensitive" or comments about the "race card" or "sexism card" or whatever other "cards" they choose to label.

"Jokers" of this type are usually just bullies or sarcastic people who are in a negative state of mind and thus best avoided when possible, their comments or "jokes" have little meaning outside of letting others know that the "joker" is a negative influence.

[Xbehave]

Sexually speaking (or any other way) who does this thread benefit?
Who does any discussion in The Community Cafe benefit?

Also, perhaps I should have made the vote non-anon because I hope no women actually consider themselves inferior to men, so suspect some people may be trolling. I could of course be wrong.

[aktiwers]

I miss the option "I dont care"..

[Xbehave]

I miss the option "I dont care"..
As always that option is represented by don't vote

[aktiwers]

Actually then it's not represented, as I cant see how many people who does not care. ;)

[pwnst*r]

what a crap poll. i'm surprised the mods leave this up. poll is biased and skewed. nice job OP

[Xbehave]

Actually then it's not represented, as I cant see how many people who does not care. ;)
I don't care how many people don't care, their opinions are uninteresting and uninformative. If you don't care what are you doing here?


poll is biased and skewed. nice job OP
Any bias/skew is accidental, my aim was to cover all POV not to cover them all equally. imo 2 sides of an argument DO NOT deserve equal footing, all that matters is that both sides are represented so people that feel a particular way can vote something resembling that POV.

[Hyporeal]

a double standard in the whole sexist thing is that feminism female is fine but masuclism male would be highly offensive...

I find that the opposite is true. The term "masculism" isn't often used but the struggle for equality includes both genders. Generally speaking, both women and men are offended by the same sorts of sexism, so it makes sense that members of both genders would oppose it.

[samjh]

If there is any sexism in FOSS, it is reflective of sexism in society at large, and not a particular phenomenon within the FOSS community per se.

[tcoffeep]

I don't care how many people don't care, their opinions are uninteresting and uninformative. If you don't care what are you doing here?

^
Bias.



Any bias/skew is accidental, my aim was to cover all POV not to cover them all equally
^ A lie


--

A better setup :

1 ) As a guy : There is no sexism/I do not care.
2 ) As a guy : Sexist comments are insignificant.
3 ) As a guy : Sexist comments are being blown out of proportion.
4 ) As a guy : Sexist comments are reflective of FOSS community.
5 ) As a guy : Sexist comments are reflective of the IT community.
6 ) As a girl : There is no sexism/I do not care.
7 ) As a girl : Sexist comments are insignificant.
8 ) As a girl : Sexist comments are being blown out of proportion.
9 ) As a girl : Sexist comments are reflective of FOSS community.
10 ) As a girl : Sexist comments are reflective of the IT community.

See? Three options, that cover all yours without no display of bias. And it doesn't have to be guy/girl. The only reason I think these polls are stupid are because you're completely ignoring everyone else (the majority) who holds the opinion that this entire sexist argument is stupid

[doas777]

no more than there is the assumption outside IT/FOSS that we are all overweight geeks. there are all kinds of -isms out there, and all you have to do to find one is look for it through your own subjective lenses.

so is there -ism, you ask? well, are there people involved, I ask? both answers are yes, and always will be.

[shadylookin]

The sexism is outside of foss. Women think it's for creepy white/asian boys and refuse to join. :P

Is there any other job/hobby with such a large gender gap?

[lisati]

I hope this thread doesn't degenerate into something completely stupid. "Equality" should mean "Equal in value, regardless of the particular combination of skills and abilities a person is gifted with", not "we should all be identical"........

[mkendall]

The sexism is outside of foss. Women think it's for creepy white/asian boys and refuse to join. :P

Is there any other job/hobby with such a large gender gap?

American Football if you exclude cheerleaders. Probably rugby, too, but I don't know much about rugby.